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      Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition

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      waltonl4
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #400: Dec 05, 2018 06:42:54 pm
      racerx34
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #401: Dec 05, 2018 08:04:43 pm
      A double pivot is the 2 in the 4-2-3-1. Knowing what a pivot outside of football makes it self explanatory, I'm not going to say any more because people can easily use Google. I don't know the point in asking me because I could easily Google this if I didn't know, but I actually already know. These questions strike me as floccinaucinihilipilific ations to be honest.

      I asked because you use it as a point in an argument a lot and because there seems to be some difference between what you think a double-pivot is and what Swab thinks a double-pivot is.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #402: Dec 05, 2018 10:49:38 pm
      I asked because you use it as a point in an argument a lot and because there seems to be some difference between what you think a double-pivot is and what Swab thinks a double-pivot is.
      A pivot is the joint between the defence and midfield, this is why bothers some people.. because some people feel like if the defence keeps getting the ball from the pivot it is bad if there are available options forward. A double pivot is when there are two players doing that, by having a double pivot it there are two players instead of one seeking a pass to the midfield, which is why a double pivot doesn't work well in a 4 3 3, since there would be 2 pivots overly passing to one midfielder.  4 2 3 1 works because it is like having 3 midfielders infront of the pivot, but behind a solo striker. Double pivot is overly defensive, so okay when defending an aggregate advantage, but using it in a PL game would be disadvantageous in my opinion. 
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #403: Dec 06, 2018 08:47:21 am
      Well done gaffer.

      Great night’s work.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #404: Dec 06, 2018 11:43:24 am
      A double pivot is the 2 in the 4-2-3-1. Knowing what a pivot outside of football makes it self explanatory, I'm not going to say any more because people can easily use Google. I don't know the point in asking me because I could easily Google this if I didn't know, but I actually already know. These questions strike me as floccinaucinihilipilific ations to be honest.

      I would say it's more of a 4-2-4 with the two sitting slightly deeper. Also a fluid 4-4-2 defending and covering along the flanks. Not that interested in the numbers game as I see it as more fluid movement within a team. Apart from your back 4 the other front 6 need to be fluid, have plenty of pace, invention, flair, tackling, covering etc. All utilised within the team framework. One or two instructed to work deeper.

      Klopp said they set the selected team up in a couple of training sessions. More to see how the inclusion of Shaq up front with Origi and Sturridge. Big call by Klopp. We knew one or two needed a breather and it worked well enough.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #405: Dec 06, 2018 01:15:02 pm
      Explain it then.

      You're now calling it a pivot.
      Explain what you think a double-pivot is.

      I think this is what he means

      clint_call01
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #406: Dec 06, 2018 04:17:18 pm
      Keep the fees coming Klopp. Liverpool will pay them for you if you brings us the League :)
      racerx34
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #407: Dec 07, 2018 04:11:28 pm
      A pivot is the joint between the defence and midfield, this is why bothers some people.. because some people feel like if the defence keeps getting the ball from the pivot it is bad if there are available options forward. A double pivot is when there are two players doing that, by having a double pivot it there are two players instead of one seeking a pass to the midfield, which is why a double pivot doesn't work well in a 4 3 3, since there would be 2 pivots overly passing to one midfielder.  4 2 3 1 works because it is like having 3 midfielders infront of the pivot, but behind a solo striker. Double pivot is overly defensive, so okay when defending an aggregate advantage, but using it in a PL game would be disadvantageous in my opinion. 

      I don't think the double-pivot has players doing the same job.
      Which is probably why it isn't as fluid when Klopp uses it.

      You're probably right in that we have two players doing the same job in the midfield 2, when Fabinho isn't playing.
      I'd like to see Gini or Keita further up the pitch, so if a double-pivot is going to be regular then Klopp needs a creative player in there,
      not somebody who is physical and can carry the ball, but somebody with great distribution.

      Whether it be in the 10 or as part of a double-pivot, that player is still missing from the midfield.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #408: Dec 07, 2018 04:43:28 pm
      I don't think the double-pivot has players doing the same job.
      Which is probably why it isn't as fluid when Klopp uses it.

      You're probably right in that we have two players doing the same job in the midfield 2, when Fabinho isn't playing.
      I'd like to see Gini or Keita further up the pitch, so if a double-pivot is going to be regular then Klopp needs a creative player in there,
      not somebody who is physical and can carry the ball, but somebody with great distribution.

      Whether it be in the 10 or as part of a double-pivot, that player is still missing from the midfield.

      Pretty much spot on for me.

      My only caveat is that it’s still a very fluid double we employ - not truly a double pivot in strictest terms - largely because we don’t have that premier creative resource.

      I think IF we had a Fekir or a Silva the other two would be a lot more stable (in different roles) and you’d see one of front 3 still dropping in.

      Fascinating stuff - though to geeks like me it can become a bit of a wankathon :)
      « Last Edit: Dec 07, 2018 04:49:11 pm by Scotia »
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #409: Dec 07, 2018 06:05:13 pm
      Pretty much spot on for me.

      My only caveat is that it’s still a very fluid double we employ - not truly a double pivot in strictest terms - largely because we don’t have that premier creative resource.

      I think IF we had a Fekir or a Silva the other two would be a lot more stable (in different roles) and you’d see one of front 3 still dropping in.

      Fascinating stuff - though to geeks like me it can become a bit of a wankathon :)

      This is why I compare it more to the volante system than the European double pivot.

      I tend to think  of it in 2 ways; Masch and Alonso = defensive and "fixed" double pivot; Masch and Gerrard = fluid double pivot.
      It seems the simplest way to me, but doubtless there are other players from different teams that would illustrate the point better.
      molbys belly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #410: Dec 07, 2018 06:08:57 pm
      Double pivots 😂😂😂
      waltonl4
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #411: Dec 08, 2018 02:44:07 pm
      His team selections this week have just been spot on played 3 won 3 scored 8 conceded 1
      Shabs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #412: Dec 08, 2018 04:20:21 pm
      Don’t want to get ahead of myself but if we achieve 12 points from our next 4 difficult league games we are on course.
      Dmasta
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #413: Dec 08, 2018 05:31:23 pm
      Don’t want to get ahead of myself but if we achieve 12 points from our next 4 difficult league games we are on course.


      Think it'll all depend on how he uses all these pivots that we have.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #414: Dec 08, 2018 07:41:16 pm
      I think this guy might actually know what he’s doing......🤔
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #415: Dec 08, 2018 07:47:24 pm
      I think this guy might actually know what he’s doing......🤔

      It’s like a good manager makes the whole team better or something.
      Shabs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #416: Dec 08, 2018 08:00:47 pm
      I think this guy might actually know what he’s doing......🤔

      Im not sure 😂
      Shabs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #417: Dec 08, 2018 08:01:30 pm
      Think it'll all depend on how he uses all these pivots that we have.

      Rib could explain the pivot to us..
      molbys belly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #418: Dec 08, 2018 08:04:46 pm
      Rib could explain the pivot to us..

      Lot of pish ;D
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #419: Dec 08, 2018 10:07:47 pm
      Very interesting interview with the manager from prior to the Burnley game. Might open some people's eyes. He talks about our change of style, rotation, Keita, Fabinho, our pressing, ...

      The boss sees what we see and far more than that. I put some interesting bits in bold.

      Jürgen Klopp exclusive: Liverpool boss on why the team had to evolve

      Jürgen Klopp discusses the necessary evolution of his Liverpool team

      In an exclusive interview with Sky Sports, Jürgen Klopp explains his reasons for changing Liverpool's style this season - and why he won't be taking any time off this Christmas...

      Liverpool's players returned from Paris at 1.45am on Thursday morning and reported to work for 2.30pm. Training was at 4.15pm to replicate the time of the Merseyside derby on Sunday. Then there's the bus to Burnley on Wednesday and the flight to Bournemouth on Friday before Napoli and Manchester United visit Anfield. All of this inside a fortnight.

      Liverpool are in the thick of it now and Jürgen Klopp can only smile.

      A decade ago, in the last of his eight seasons with Mainz, his team played only 36 matches all season. Liverpool will pass that mark by February. Speaking on the top floor of the club's Melwood training base, the irony of the situation is not lost on the 51-year-old German.

      "Coaches want to coach," he tells Sky Sports. "That is why we are good at it and that is why we have made our way up in the game. Then you get to the highest level and most of the time it is meetings. The job becomes more about getting the message across in those meetings rather than on the pitch. It is a big difference and you have to get used to that."

      Not that he is complaining. The point is made with the customary smile. "There is nothing to moan about. It is like it is." And besides, the time constraints have forced him to make every single moment count with his players. "The job is massively and completely different and that makes me a much better manager than I was when I started," he adds.

      The challenge now is to get even better. Liverpool made their strongest start to a season in their 126-year history and remain unbeaten in the Premier League. But they still find themselves two points adrift of Manchester City. The quest for perfection is driving them on and explains why Klopp has made changes on and off the pitch in a bid to improve.

      In part, it was born of necessity. He sensed that opponents had adapted to his team's counter-pressing and he would need another way. "A lot of teams saw that we were good at that and realised they were overplaying," says Klopp. "If the team gives us the opportunity to do it we will still be there with the counter-press. But very often it is not possible.

      "A lot of teams also play counter-attack against us. They don't have the same respect for us that they have for Man City, for example. Against City, you watch it and wonder what they are doing. A week later they play us and they are thinking, right, let's try. City deserve that but it makes a big difference because we have to percenter cent concentrated all the time.
      If the team gives us the opportunity to do it we will still be there with the counter-press. But very often it is not possible ... now we have to control more games.

      "It means that now we have to control more games. We have to keep the ball, especially against counter-attacking sides. That may change in the second part of the season when opponents who are down the table need the points and so they will need to open up a bit more. But at this moment we have to control games and be patient but in a very lively way.

      "This was a big part of our thinking in pre-season as well. We really said that.  It's like we were so lively in the past that the moment we couldn't be lively because there was no space for that it was like there was immediately this drop in concentration. That is not allowed. I like it more now actually. It is more mature. That was the next step for us. So far so good."

      Liverpool's defensive problems have been addressed. The team has conceded only five goals in the Premier League this season, the same number as City, and Klopp is pleased that the work has paid off. "We had to develop things and we had to put the focus a bit more on defence," he says. "I always think about how to win and defence is the basis for all of it."

      But as one issue is solved another emerges. Now there are suggestions that Liverpool's more controlled approach means they are lacking the fluency of old. "In the moment when the defence is not good everyone says you need to fix it," says Klopp. "The moment you fix it, everybody says, yeah, but what about the rest of it? It is always like this."

      Although Xherdan Shaqiri has impressed since his £13m arrival in the summer, the scoring form of Mohamed Salah and especially Roberto Firmino has not hit last season's heights. But Klopp sees the capacity to switch to a 4-2-3-1 as a strength and is optimistic that any concerns over Liverpool's attacking potency are only temporary.

      He points to one particular flowing move against Fulham that he argues was very nearly the best team goal that he has seen during his three years at Anfield. The chances are still coming. "We have created many more than we have used," he argues.

      "That's the nature of the thing. I have no problem with that. Yes, there is one team that has scored a lot more than us but the rest are on the same level and there will be games when the boys are flying. Those games will come. I am 100 per cent sure of that. We have already been really close in a lot of situations but right now we just need to get results."

      The other chief cause for optimism is that the new signings will improve. Against Paris Saint-Germain, Liverpool relied upon the tried and trusted midfield trio of Jordan Henderson, James Milner and Georginio Wijnaldum, but the hope remains that Fabinho and Naby Keita will be able to provide greater impetus as the season goes on.

      For now, patience is required. "We will have to work for it because it is not like you can throw players on the pitch and just tell them to do it," says Klopp. "It doesn't work. It didn't work with Fabinho. It did work really well with Naby in the beginning, but then he got an injury and the team did really well. If things are working then you keep them.

      "That gives the other players even more time to adjust to all the things around them, in the league, in the club and all this stuff. There will come the time when they are playing and nobody will remember that there were three or four games at the beginning when they weren't playing. So, of course, there is potential there to improve.

      "It is a pretty young side too. One that is not experienced in winning anything so far. Our big opponents are the champions, the champions from a year ago, the FA Cup winner from a year ago and so on. All these teams are challenging you and we need to find our own way. We know it will never be easy and this period coming up will be really intense."

      With eight games in December, including that Champions League decider against Napoli, and 2019 beginning with a bang against Manchester City, much of Liverpool's season will be shaped by this next month. Clearly, it will be no relaxing Christmas for Klopp himself.

      "My missus asked me when I am having a day off and I don't see it," he says. "I had to make the plans quite a long time ahead and I didn't see a day off. Not this year. We cannot go home to Germany. I will be at home in Liverpool but Christmas will be celebrated in hours not days."

      The hope is that with the work Klopp has put in to improve the defence, strengthen the squad and work out new ways to win, Liverpool will do their celebrating in May instead.

      https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/11568131/jurgen-klopp-exclusive-liverpool-boss-on-why-the-team-had-to-evolve
      RedWilly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #420: Dec 09, 2018 03:47:52 am
      The first manager in a long time who has demonstrated the clear and continued upward trajectory season on season. Feels like he will always have us competing rather than being the one season wonder.

      Top of the league, all kinds of club records broken and still with room for growth. Nice work boss.
      althebest1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #421: Dec 09, 2018 06:29:46 am
      Very interesting interview with the manager from prior to the Burnley game. Might open some people's eyes. He talks about our change of style, rotation, Keita, Fabinho, our pressing, ...

      The boss sees what we see and far more than that. I put some interesting bits in bold.

      Jürgen Klopp exclusive: Liverpool boss on why the team had to evolve

      Jürgen Klopp discusses the necessary evolution of his Liverpool team

      In an exclusive interview with Sky Sports, Jürgen Klopp explains his reasons for changing Liverpool's style this season - and why he won't be taking any time off this Christmas...

      Liverpool's players returned from Paris at 1.45am on Thursday morning and reported to work for 2.30pm. Training was at 4.15pm to replicate the time of the Merseyside derby on Sunday. Then there's the bus to Burnley on Wednesday and the flight to Bournemouth on Friday before Napoli and Manchester United visit Anfield. All of this inside a fortnight.

      Liverpool are in the thick of it now and Jürgen Klopp can only smile.

      A decade ago, in the last of his eight seasons with Mainz, his team played only 36 matches all season. Liverpool will pass that mark by February. Speaking on the top floor of the club's Melwood training base, the irony of the situation is not lost on the 51-year-old German.

      "Coaches want to coach," he tells Sky Sports. "That is why we are good at it and that is why we have made our way up in the game. Then you get to the highest level and most of the time it is meetings. The job becomes more about getting the message across in those meetings rather than on the pitch. It is a big difference and you have to get used to that."

      Not that he is complaining. The point is made with the customary smile. "There is nothing to moan about. It is like it is." And besides, the time constraints have forced him to make every single moment count with his players. "The job is massively and completely different and that makes me a much better manager than I was when I started," he adds.

      The challenge now is to get even better. Liverpool made their strongest start to a season in their 126-year history and remain unbeaten in the Premier League. But they still find themselves two points adrift of Manchester City. The quest for perfection is driving them on and explains why Klopp has made changes on and off the pitch in a bid to improve.

      In part, it was born of necessity. He sensed that opponents had adapted to his team's counter-pressing and he would need another way. "A lot of teams saw that we were good at that and realised they were overplaying," says Klopp. "If the team gives us the opportunity to do it we will still be there with the counter-press. But very often it is not possible.

      "A lot of teams also play counter-attack against us. They don't have the same respect for us that they have for Man City, for example. Against City, you watch it and wonder what they are doing. A week later they play us and they are thinking, right, let's try. City deserve that but it makes a big difference because we have to percenter cent concentrated all the time.
      If the team gives us the opportunity to do it we will still be there with the counter-press. But very often it is not possible ... now we have to control more games.

      "It means that now we have to control more games. We have to keep the ball, especially against counter-attacking sides. That may change in the second part of the season when opponents who are down the table need the points and so they will need to open up a bit more. But at this moment we have to control games and be patient but in a very lively way.

      "This was a big part of our thinking in pre-season as well. We really said that.  It's like we were so lively in the past that the moment we couldn't be lively because there was no space for that it was like there was immediately this drop in concentration. That is not allowed. I like it more now actually. It is more mature. That was the next step for us. So far so good."

      Liverpool's defensive problems have been addressed. The team has conceded only five goals in the Premier League this season, the same number as City, and Klopp is pleased that the work has paid off. "We had to develop things and we had to put the focus a bit more on defence," he says. "I always think about how to win and defence is the basis for all of it."

      But as one issue is solved another emerges. Now there are suggestions that Liverpool's more controlled approach means they are lacking the fluency of old. "In the moment when the defence is not good everyone says you need to fix it," says Klopp. "The moment you fix it, everybody says, yeah, but what about the rest of it? It is always like this."

      Although Xherdan Shaqiri has impressed since his £13m arrival in the summer, the scoring form of Mohamed Salah and especially Roberto Firmino has not hit last season's heights. But Klopp sees the capacity to switch to a 4-2-3-1 as a strength and is optimistic that any concerns over Liverpool's attacking potency are only temporary.

      He points to one particular flowing move against Fulham that he argues was very nearly the best team goal that he has seen during his three years at Anfield. The chances are still coming. "We have created many more than we have used," he argues.

      "That's the nature of the thing. I have no problem with that. Yes, there is one team that has scored a lot more than us but the rest are on the same level and there will be games when the boys are flying. Those games will come. I am 100 per cent sure of that. We have already been really close in a lot of situations but right now we just need to get results."

      The other chief cause for optimism is that the new signings will improve. Against Paris Saint-Germain, Liverpool relied upon the tried and trusted midfield trio of Jordan Henderson, James Milner and Georginio Wijnaldum, but the hope remains that Fabinho and Naby Keita will be able to provide greater impetus as the season goes on.

      For now, patience is required. "We will have to work for it because it is not like you can throw players on the pitch and just tell them to do it," says Klopp. "It doesn't work. It didn't work with Fabinho. It did work really well with Naby in the beginning, but then he got an injury and the team did really well. If things are working then you keep them.

      "That gives the other players even more time to adjust to all the things around them, in the league, in the club and all this stuff. There will come the time when they are playing and nobody will remember that there were three or four games at the beginning when they weren't playing. So, of course, there is potential there to improve.

      "It is a pretty young side too. One that is not experienced in winning anything so far. Our big opponents are the champions, the champions from a year ago, the FA Cup winner from a year ago and so on. All these teams are challenging you and we need to find our own way. We know it will never be easy and this period coming up will be really intense."

      With eight games in December, including that Champions League decider against Napoli, and 2019 beginning with a bang against Manchester City, much of Liverpool's season will be shaped by this next month. Clearly, it will be no relaxing Christmas for Klopp himself.

      "My missus asked me when I am having a day off and I don't see it," he says. "I had to make the plans quite a long time ahead and I didn't see a day off. Not this year. We cannot go home to Germany. I will be at home in Liverpool but Christmas will be celebrated in hours not days."

      The hope is that with the work Klopp has put in to improve the defence, strengthen the squad and work out new ways to win, Liverpool will do their celebrating in May instead.

      https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/11568131/jurgen-klopp-exclusive-liverpool-boss-on-why-the-team-had-to-evolve

      How come he never once mentioned a pivot? let alone a double pivot! Obviously he has no idea what he is on about  :f_run:
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #422: Dec 09, 2018 10:15:25 am
      Great post Danz....

      Klopp is really a madman genius. Love him to pieces and it’s fascinating to read his insights on the game and our team.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #423: Dec 09, 2018 10:28:44 am
      when forum members criticise you for actually saying whatever team Jürgen puts out its the best one available it makes your head wobble. This season what has he done wrong he has a squad of human beings not machines and after 16 games we have dropped just 6 points and conceded just 6 points. That's why we trust Jürgen rather than the experts on here who cut and paste out of a coaching manual. Even before yesterdays game he was getting stick for the team he picked and we won 4-0 and go top of the league if you don't think this man is our best chance of winning the league in over 25 years then I don't who else is.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager - 2018/19 Edition
      Reply #424: Dec 09, 2018 11:21:04 am
      when forum members criticise you for actually saying whatever team Jürgen puts out its the best one available it makes your head wobble. This season what has he done wrong he has a squad of human beings not machines and after 16 games we have dropped just 6 points and conceded just 6 points. That's why we trust Jürgen rather than the experts on here who cut and paste out of a coaching manual. Even before yesterdays game he was getting stick for the team he picked and we won 4-0 and go top of the league if you don't think this man is our best chance of winning the league in over 25 years then I don't who else is.

      That's because people want to see the very best chance of winning take the field week in we out to continue the momentum that we have built...
      But on viewing the team selection pre match I formed only one thought... It's December, and people should expect to see very different starting line-up's week in week out in an effort to keep players fit and help protect against injuries

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