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      Improving Midfield - how will it set up?

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      redkop63
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #100: Nov 07, 2018 05:51:54 am
      Look, we have keita, hendo, fabinho, milner, shaqiri, lallana, ox and ginny in midfield. Did i missed out anyone? Pls add. This is overcrowded.

      Honestly, how many, or should i ask is anyone of them a world class playmaker?  To me, non of them, at least at the moment. They can't dribble the ball, twist and turn to find the openings and that requires vision. Vision is something that non of them has in a consistent manner while in Shaqiri, i saw a glimpse of it. Every world class club winning the domestic league or european cups have one or two of such players. We have 8 midfieders and we don't even have one. That is what that separates us from being a champion to being an also rans. That's where the problem lies. If i am klopp, i would be pretty worried by now, having 8, ok 2 injured and our midfield still can't function properly. Is his tactics ok?

      Missing a playmaker is one thing, but i now have doubts on Klopp's tactics. Torch me or flame me as you wish, its alright to me. is he being overly cautious in his tactics? We're firing all cylinders earlier and lately our attack is deflated. It can't be from a hero to zero situation in such a short period of time. Something has gone very wrong with the tactics.

      Ok, i have flamed Gini all these months but what i saw in the Holland vs Germany game, i tend to see situation a bit differently now. In that game, Ginny dribbbled and muscled his way from the start of the 3rd quarter into the oppositiin box and scored a goal. So, i asked myself, if he could do that for Holland why not he do it for LFC? There is only one answer. So, the buck stops with Klopp.

      « Last Edit: Nov 07, 2018 08:54:35 pm by redkop63 »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #101: Nov 07, 2018 10:12:05 am
      World class defence now and world class attack but last nights midfield was barely premier league standard.
      The lack of energy going forward and inventiveness was there for all to see. I hoped Lallana could get back to his best form of a few seasons ago but age and injuries have seriously damaged his ability to play at this level.
      I have mentioned Gini playing for Holland going forward like Stevie so he definitely has more to offer given the chance so if Henderson is still out we need to see if Fabhino.Kieta and Gini can work and Fulham is a great opportunity at Anfield to let them loose.
      Roger Red Hat
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #102: Nov 07, 2018 10:27:13 am
      Can't really say how it will set-up because it can change almost at a whim, from game to game.

      What I will say is the midfield seem to be the main culprit of our team's performances this season. Results wise you would say it has been pragmatic - and you won't see me complaining if we grind out 1-0 wins away at Huddersfield.

      Performances however, have been ebbing towards an Arsenal/Red Star result, and I think the main culprit is midfield and to a lesser extent the attack.

      Last season, we still had what Klopp recently described as his "workhorses" in midfield; Coutiniho was almost forgotten about and the team still managed to produce emphatic attacking performances.

      The big difference for me is the lack of counter-pressing and I think this is the casual effect between our performances this season compared to last. Of course, this seems purposeful as I suspect Klopp is trying to reserve energy levels so that fitness is perhaps more sustainable and players become less leggy like they did towards the end of last season.

      But our counter-pressing was our primary tool of attack, and arguably our most creative force within a midfield not renowned for its 'creativity' - hence we didn't miss Coutinho!  Now that energy levels seem to be reigned in with a less energetic approach the midfield's lack of natural creative ability becomes exposed all of a sudden.
      heimdall
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #103: Nov 07, 2018 10:38:05 am
      Can't really say how it will set-up because it can change almost at a whim, from game to game.

      What I will say is the midfield seem to be the main culprit of our team's performances this season. Results wise you would say it has been pragmatic - and you won't see me complaining if we grind out 1-0 wins away at Huddersfield.

      Performances however, have been ebbing towards an Arsenal/Red Star result, and I think the main culprit is midfield and to a lesser extent the attack.

      Last season, we still had what Klopp recently described as his "workhorses" in midfield; Coutiniho was almost forgotten about and the team still managed to produce emphatic attacking performances.

      The big difference for me is the lack of counter-pressing and I think this is the casual effect between our performances this season compared to last. Of course, this seems purposeful as I suspect Klopp is trying to reserve energy levels so that fitness is perhaps more sustainable and players become less leggy like they did towards the end of last season.

      But our counter-pressing was our primary tool of attack, and arguably our most creative force within a midfield not renowned for its 'creativity' - hence we didn't miss Coutinho!  Now that energy levels seem to be reigned in with a less energetic approach the midfield's lack of natural creative ability becomes exposed all of a sudden.


      Excellent first post and I agree, there is something very wrong and we don't seem to press or play with the same intensity any more. Something has gone very wrong tactically in the last few games, even against Huddersfield and Cardiff I thought we were quite flat, despite the flattering scoreline against Cardiff.
      Klopp really needs to address this and inject some energy and passion back into the team, if I was him I'd be going flat out attack against Fulham, play Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Shaq but tell them to press on and support the forwards more, really go for a big score line even if it means we concede a goal.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #104: Nov 07, 2018 11:09:24 am
      How do we improve the midfield...?

      1) Play Shaqiri more

      2) Do what it takes to bring in  Rúben Neves from wolves in the January window... trade them Lallana. Sturrigde, Markovic, Solanke, Grujic , Ings,  Bogdan, Origi and give them £20mil on top if need be. (The creative quality he would bring and the wages it would save "IF" they were to take the deal it would pay for itself) It would not happen that way but you get the point i am trying to me, I hope
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #105: Nov 07, 2018 11:51:02 am
      How do we improve the midfield...?

      1) Play Shaqiri more

      2) Do what it takes to bring in  Rúben Neves from wolves in the January window... trade them Lallana. Sturrigde, Markovic, Solanke, Grujic , Ings,  Bogdan, Origi and give them £20mil on top if need be. (The creative quality he would bring and the wages it would save "IF" they were to take the deal it would pay for itself) It would not happen that way but you get the point i am trying to me, I hope

      Bit diffcult to trade Ings & Guijic since they are playing for someone else. Wolves won't accept anyone except Ings and Guijic.
      « Last Edit: Nov 07, 2018 11:58:11 am by RobieSlick »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #106: Nov 07, 2018 12:18:22 pm
      Not one tackle won by any of Lallana, Gini or Millie in that first half.

      Easy targets for a reason.

      Unacceptable.

      that is a terrible terrible stat they should be ashamed of themselves. I doubt we will see that midfield trio play together again.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #107: Nov 07, 2018 01:17:17 pm
      Every one of the players last night in the mid held the ball up. None of those guys will push the ball forward at their feet and go one v. one. Lallana used to be capable of it, but his body has let him down and is a shell of himself at this point. I think Kieta could do it, but we haven’t seen enough of him at this point to really know.

      Shaq has the vision, creativity, and accuracy with his passes to create chances for runners. Is pace isn’t Chamberlain-esk though and if I’m honest I think that is what we miss. Ox running forward opened spots on the left and right for Salah and Mane to get free. We need Kieta to push the ball down the middle of the field and have our wingers move into scoring areas.

      I’m hoping we spend in January as we are still a few players away from where we want to be
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #108: Nov 07, 2018 01:23:24 pm
      Excellent first post and I agree, there is something very wrong and we don't seem to press or play with the same intensity any more. Something has gone very wrong tactically in the last few games, even against Huddersfield and Cardiff I thought we were quite flat, despite the flattering scoreline against Cardiff.
      Klopp really needs to address this and inject some energy and passion back into the team, if I was him I'd be going flat out attack against Fulham, play Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Shaq but tell them to press on and support the forwards more, really go for a big score line even if it means we concede a goal.

      I have thought about this. Is part of our problem that we are just trying to hard to support the back 4? Should we just get back to last years “ATTACK ATTACK, ATTACK” style and let VVD and Joe sort out the “oh sh*t moments”? We paid big money for a keeper and now have Joe to solidify VVD as a top notch last line. F**k it, let the boys be a little more vulnerable and earn their bread, but only if it means that we have the mid 3 attacking and supporting the front 3 more
      lreland
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #109: Nov 07, 2018 01:39:00 pm
      adam lallana needs be sold give curtis jones chance even come on as sub,
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #110: Nov 07, 2018 01:42:47 pm
      adam lallana needs be sold give curtis jones chance even come on as sub,

      Jones did look good pushing forward in preseason. One of our bright spots. I wouldn’t mind seeing him in some PL games like Fulham or Newcastle.
      Brian78
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #111: Nov 07, 2018 08:59:47 pm
      Outside the box idea...

      Were all looking at Shaq as the creative force but how about dropping Bobby or Mane back as the creative plsyer. Mane making funs from deep or carrying ghr bsll at the opposition

                               Becker
         Clyne/TAa  Joe      VVD   Robbo

                          Fab/Hendo/Gini
                      Mane                   Keita

                 Mo          Booby     Shaq
      « Last Edit: Nov 07, 2018 09:07:44 pm by Brian78 »
      heimdall
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #112: Nov 07, 2018 09:20:34 pm
      Outside the box idea...

      Were all looking at Shaq as the creative force but how about dropping Bobby or Mane back as the creative plsyer. Mane making funs from deep or carrying ghr bsll at the opposition

                               Becker
         Clyne/TAa  Joe      VVD   Robbo

                          Fab/Hendo/Gini
                      Mane                   Keita

                 Mo          Booby     Shaq

      Not for me, at the moment Mane is our best striker. Until we buy another forward we have to persist with our current front three. Shaq as midfield is all we need alongside Fabinho and Keita, inject some attack and forward momentum.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #113: Nov 07, 2018 09:27:39 pm
      Outside the box idea...

      Were all looking at Shaq as the creative force but how about dropping Bobby or Mane back as the creative plsyer. Mane making funs from deep or carrying ghr bsll at the opposition

                               Becker
         Clyne/TAa  Joe      VVD   Robbo

                          Fab/Hendo/Gini
                      Mane                   Keita

                 Mo          Booby     Shaq

      Unfortunately Mane isn't the best passer of the ball
      Brian78
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #114: Nov 07, 2018 09:29:52 pm
      Unfortunately Mane isn't the best passer of the ball

      Would be him running at the opposition grom midfield with the ball at pace or off the ball joining the front 3 id be thinking of
      German_Panzer
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #115: Nov 07, 2018 10:06:44 pm
      January will tell us eventually what Jürgen is really thinking about his midfield. He has some options on paper: Keita, Ox, Shaq, Fekir/Paqueta or leave it with Milner-Gini-Hendo/Fab. So whatever he does will tell us what option he prefers.
      Scotia
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #116: Nov 07, 2018 10:07:10 pm
      Not for me, at the moment Mane is our best striker. Until we buy another forward we have to persist with our current front three. Shaq as midfield is all we need alongside Fabinho and Keita, inject some attack and forward momentum.

      Funny how we see things differently - I think he’s been horridly self indulgent for a month and he’s the one I’d be dropping.

      Love the guy but despite moments in every game I think he’s been poor.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #117: Nov 07, 2018 10:49:18 pm
      Shaq could play that role. He doesn't have the pace of Ox but his trickery and attacking intent could tilt the balance back to us being on the front foot. That's what we need, even if we get beat by City. Get back to swamping teams with waves of attacks. If Klopp keeps swapping Hendo/Keita/Fabinho/Milner/Gini......back and forth..in and out we will splutter and fail to reach the high attacking levels needed to impose ourselves.

      We don't want to mess up our great start by not attacking enough. Get Shaq in there, he'll screw up a few times but he goes for it.

      I posted this a month ago. Many others said something similar. This isn't squeaky bum time, this is a time to attack. Get Shaq in there against Fulham, get on the front foot and go for it. And it isn't the time to be over tactical. Get back to the basics of pressing and attacking. The midfield is playing on the back foot and will struggle if we don't get back to what we do best...attack with pace.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #118: Nov 07, 2018 10:53:25 pm
      Would be him running at the opposition grom midfield with the ball at pace or off the ball joining the front 3 id be thinking of
      What would you rather see...
      Someone with pace running from deep try to play a pass from someone not so pacey trying and get on to it..?

      Or someone not as fast who plays more pin point passes for someone with real pace to get on to it...?

      Understand what you are getting at, but I just Believe it would work better with Mane's pace if he was up front and running on to quality passes from Shaqiri
      lreland
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #119: Nov 07, 2018 11:40:37 pm
      I would play shaqri run in games, he got pace skill do things in midfield long size kieta and fabhino or Henderson even have Curtis Jones on as sub give him game time if win game by few goals boy got skill pace
      redkop63
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #120: Nov 08, 2018 12:24:55 am
      Is our defence looked better than they are because of the midfielders whom are tracking back at the instruction of  klopp to defend deep while isolating  the offensive trio? Well, it appears to be so to me. We are scoring far less and also conceding far less at the moment.  It defies all logic that we are devastating in attack not too long ago and now we struggle to attack properly. So, we have probably played into the opposition hands, we defended deep, the opposition defence pushes up and man mark Salah, Mane and Firminho. Well, that appears to me that is what happening at the moment.
      skolRED
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #121: Nov 08, 2018 10:39:41 am
      January will tell us eventually what Jürgen is really thinking about his midfield. He has some options on paper: Keita, Ox, Shaq, Fekir/Paqueta or leave it with Milner-Gini-Hendo/Fab. So whatever he does will tell us what option he prefers.

      Mate IMO the way Naby never stay fit and play regularly is the biggest shock effect even on Jürgen. This and put together Fabinho take such a long time to settle make thing even worse for him. I think the way he reluctant to put Shaq into the 10 instead of force Booby to play there and omit Shaq is the worst mistake he did so far.  No not I' know better than Klopp but hopefully he change his mind before it's too late.

      Agree with you that I also want to see what Klopp going to do with our midfield in January.  I just fear of Klopp stubbornness and his persistence with players he believe he can improve them, reluctant to get replacement.

      BTW how can you imagine we can get that boy Paqueta directly from Brazil, I don't think it's possible.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #122: Nov 08, 2018 04:00:52 pm
      January will tell us eventually what Jürgen is really thinking about his midfield. He has some options on paper: Keita, Ox, Shaq, Fekir/Paqueta or leave it with Milner-Gini-Hendo/Fab. So whatever he does will tell us what option he prefers.
      Press reporting that both Chelsea and Bayern are showing interest in Fekir...

      Chelsea and Bayern Munich are interested in Lyon's 25-year-old playmaker Nabil Fekir, who has told the French club he wants to leave next summer.

      https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/741131/Chelsea-transfer-news-Nabil-Fekir-pushing-for-summer-move-Blues-to-battle-with-Bayern
      Shabs
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #123: Nov 08, 2018 04:30:10 pm
      Press reporting that both Chelsea and Bayern are showing interest in Fekir...

      Chelsea and Bayern Munich are interested in Lyon's 25-year-old playmaker Nabil Fekir, who has told the French club he wants to leave next summer.

      https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/741131/Chelsea-transfer-news-Nabil-Fekir-pushing-for-summer-move-Blues-to-battle-with-Bayern

      Old news rehashed...
      waltonl4
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      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #124: Nov 08, 2018 06:01:05 pm
      as far as Liverpool is concerned Fekir is fecked.
      We haven't see what his new signings can do yet and I guess it would be a good time for them to show us why we paid good money for them

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