Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Napoli [Champions League] Tue 11th Dec @ 8:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 10th of December and on this date LFC's match record is P20 W5 D7 L8

      Improving Midfield - how will it set up?

      Read 4723 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #150: Dec 01, 2018 02:12:10 pm
      Last night the front three were given plenty of chances to do something and failed - Remember the three on two with Salah on the ball and it was intercepted, also a number of other times there was a chance to put in a quality delivery and no one could do it

      The constant finger pointing at the guys in the middle are allowing the front three a free pass when they are poor , the immediate excuse is they are poor because they don’t get the ball from the middle- sorry but nonsense , they have had plenty of the ball in threatening areas but have on a number of times gone for the wrong option

      But the fingers will continue to be pointed at the midfield and the front three given a get out clause

      The Man Utd teams from 1996-2010, the thing that made them so lethal and so successful was the quality from all over the pitch especially the mid -field not only where thier strikers feared be also the mid-field because they had goal scorer in all of those areas who chipped in with regular gaols and created them, something that Man City have now...

      What do we have...? there work horses (Gini,Henderson,Milner) that create little quality chance, the key work is "Quality"
      The so called chance you said we made the other night, hand on heart; how many of them would you call quality...?

      You have one on here who claims it is the wing back that are suppose to create the chance, but what happens when those wing backs are pinned back and can not get up field to create those chances..??

      Also if you have a midfield that can open up teams and score goal instead of just a from three then defenses are unable to identify just who to mark...

      At one time in the match PSG had four men around Salah. Now Salah is no Messi, and even the great man himself would struggle if that was the case every time he got the ball...

      There is a reason why so many people feel like this about the Henderson,Milner, Gini combination in midfield. It simple does not work well...

      I have never been a fan of Henderson, but if I am honest, I feel that it was Milner who played the worst out of the two and said so on the match tread. But the facts remain both are simple not good enough for the starting 11 bar injuries
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #151: Dec 01, 2018 02:12:31 pm
      Yes totally agree... It's sink or swim time for Fab' and Keita

      Is it f**k.

      get a grip and stop trying to create this ridiculous narrative.
      It's complete f**king bollocks, and what's worse, you know it is.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #152: Dec 01, 2018 02:29:42 pm
      Interesting article about or midfield that will leave plenty of people with something to chew over about Henderson and our midfield generally;

      https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/29/liverpool-paris-st-germain-champions-league

      Apologies, after all these years on the forum I still don’t know how to post the full article from my phone :D

      Read this article and can't really fault it... Printed it to make it easier for others

      Liverpool began with the same flat, muscular Milner-Henderson-Wijnaldum axis that has now started all three away defeats in Europe. It is a midfield that looks perfect for last season’s system, the high-pressing, hard-running game that creates chances out of orderly disorder.

       Jürgen Klopp speaks to Mohamed Salah and James Milner, who started in midfield alongside Jordan Henderson and Gigi Wijnaldum.
      Facebook Twitter Pinterest
       Jürgen Klopp speaks to Mohamed Salah and James Milner, who started in midfield alongside Jordan Henderson and Gigi Wijnaldum. Photograph: Clive Rose/Getty Images
      Advertisement

      Faced with a midfield of greater ball-playing craft, they instead sat deeper and went toe-to-toe in the finer arts, looking at times like a man trying to conduct a concert orchestra with a policeman’s baton. Sometimes you really are better off just hitting someone over the head with it.

      “Un Victoire Capitale! PSG s’impose sur Liverpool” was the headline in one Paris daily on Thursday morning . And for all the distracting noises about gamesmanship, PSG did impose themselves in that period when the game was won, Verratti, Neymar, Marquinhos and Ángel Di María dominating the ball and playing in a system that flattered their own best attributes.


      Will Liverpool make a pig's ear of it in Europe this season?
       Read more
      Successful teams are sometimes compared to a fine wine, something that becomes more nuanced with age. This Klopp-era Liverpool have gone further, changing from a bottle of something fizzy and fun and likely to leave you with an exhilarating headache the next day into a thicker, more restrained vintage, lacking a little in the high notes.

      This is, of course, part of the plan. Klopp has spoken at length about his efforts to create a team that can win by scoring just once rather than playing always in the eye of the hurricane. It may work out. The season is long and attritional.

      But there is also the danger that a midfield of workers and runners makes sense when your full-backs and front three are tearing around creating potent havoc; but less so when there is a requirement to make chances in a more patient, structured fashion. There is also no doubt that they have missed Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’s dynamism, his more vertical movements with the ball. Philippe Coutinho’s skill and vision in those areas has not been replaced. Naby Keïta will presumably settle. Fabinho seems an unnecessary layer of additional muscle.


      The Fiver: sign up and get our daily football email.
      At the end of which £90m has been spent on re-gearing the midfield for this more measured Klopp team, but it still looks more suited to scrapping and covering behind the old tearaway attack. And yes, quite a lot of this comes back to Jordan Henderson, who played as he always does in Paris: wholeheartedly, retaining his intensity to the last, but fraught with the same limitations.

      Henderson is a strange player in many ways. He has played 260 games now, been a fixture in the two best Liverpool teams of the last 13 years and been picked and prized by Klopp, Brendan Rodgers, Kenny Dalglish, Gareth Southgate, Roy Hodgson and Fabio Capello. For all that, he remains a player whose qualities are more obvious to those who watch the team from the inside than to those who see just the outline details of match day.


      Neymar, the great individualist of the age, gives less to provide more for PSG
       Read more
      Clearly those managers will also see Henderson’s technical limitations. This is a midfielder with one goal in his last 97 games, despite spending a fair amount of each game around the opposition goal. He seems physically unable to turn with the ball in a tight space, meaning every time he takes it with his back to goal he passes backwards, a powerful contrast with most high-class central midfielders, for whom it is an essential skill to take the ball and turn in one movement.

      In Paris Henderson was bypassed repeatedly in the first half by Neymar, the last with a dismissive veering run that just said, yes, I can move that bit quicker than you.

      To Henderson’s credit he kept going right to the end, dragging his team along with him, influence growing as time ticked down. But it is not hard to see why Klopp would rather turn the discussion to PSG’s players falling over a lot (which they did) than linger on an unbalanced midfield that seems caught between stick or twist, dogs of the high-press asked to perform a more mannered role against opponents better tailored to the task.

      Liverpool could still have emerged with a draw. Sadio Mané dropped deep to good effect and bridged the midfield creativity gap at times. Andrew Robertson was fearless as ever. And in mitigation of the midfield effort, Roberto Firmino’s poor form hardly helps. That ability to drop back, hook the ball out of the air, capoeira-style, and find players around him on the turn is a powerful creative weapon. Right now he just looks a little low on zip.

      There are some positives in defeat. In a way the result simplifies the final act against Napoli two weeks from now. Liverpool will have to win 1–0, or handsomely. This is surely the moment for a tactical reboot of last season’s blitz football, a game to play with fire not ice in the head; and in a style that might just leave the midfield looking a little happier in its own clothes.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #153: Dec 01, 2018 02:39:15 pm
      Is it f**k.

      get a grip and stop trying to create this ridiculous narrative.
      It's complete f**king bollocks, and what's worse, you know it is.

      Shoo Fly..
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • *****

      • 21,379 posts | 2063 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #154: Dec 01, 2018 02:50:00 pm
      Is it f**k.

      get a grip and stop trying to create this ridiculous narrative.
      It's complete f**king bollocks, and what's worse, you know it is.

      F**k me, must have been sink or swim when we bought Bobby,Robbo,Ox 😂

      Some folks make it up as they go along...
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • Forum John Barnes
      • ***

      • 411 posts | 144 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #155: Dec 01, 2018 02:50:41 pm
      Yes totally agree... It's sink or swim time for Fab' and Keita

      No it’s not but what you say is typical of the want it now way of the world - most appear to show any sort of patience and expect players just to get used to the club or Prem straight away - some players can take a whole season
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #156: Dec 01, 2018 02:52:08 pm
      F**k me, must have been sink or swim when we bought Bobby,Robbo,Ox 😂

      Some folks make it up as they go along...

      It's pure attention seeking, coupled with the fact none of these loons has a clue what they're talking about.

      oh well, tis the way of the modern world it seems.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #157: Dec 01, 2018 04:24:48 pm
      No it’s not but what you say is typical of the want it now way of the world - most appear to show any sort of patience and expect players just to get used to the club or Prem straight away - some players can take a whole season
      These player were bought in to do a job that Gini Henderson and Milner can not do... They should at least be given the chance to do that job,and yes they will make mistakes a long the way and have to learn from them, but wasn't that what Kenny D' did when he bought Henderson, Adams and Downing in to the team...? Play them week in week out...
      Players can only learn so much in training...

      F**k me, must have been sink or swim when we bought Bobby,Robbo,Ox 😂

      Some folks make it up as they go along...

      As for Robbo... It was Moreno who kept him out of the side for so long, he was playing well at the time
      RedWilly
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,324 posts | 818 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #158: Dec 01, 2018 04:41:13 pm
      These player were bought in to do a job that Gini Henderson and Milner can not do... They should at least be given the chance to do that job,and yes they will make mistakes a long the way and have to learn from them, but wasn't that what Kenny D' did when he bought Henderson, Adams and Downing in to the team...? Play them week in week out...
      Players can only learn so much in training...

      As for Robbo... It was Moreno who kept him out of the side for so long, he was playing well at the time

      Do you have some kind of inside knowledge of what goes on in training that the rest of us don’t have? Jürgen is on record saying it takes time to adapt to our style and he is also on record saying both Fab and Keita will be in the team in time.

      And given we are absolutely f**king flying in the league, then no, it isn’t ‘sink or swim’ or the time to tear it all up.

      Honestly, this narrative you keep pushing, it’s pathetic because there is absolutely no basis for it.
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,726 posts | 220 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #159: Dec 01, 2018 04:41:53 pm
      The goal threat from midfield is also fairly weak. You need at least one of your midfield players to reach double figures and the others to chip in. Shaq apart I can't see very much goal threat from the rest. Keita may be but he needs game time to get fully up to speed.

      So add the poor goal return to the perceived lack of creation and if it carries on deeper into the season it will, without doubt, have a negative affect on results.

      The top 4 have always produced from midfield and we have to improve in that area before it's to late. I'd like to see a much more positive display against Everton.

      Shaq,Keita and Fabinho or Gini to start.
      « Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018 04:46:30 pm by Harrisimo »
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #160: Dec 01, 2018 05:34:48 pm
      Do you have some kind of inside knowledge of what goes on in training that the rest of us don’t have? Jürgen is on record saying it takes time to adapt to our style and he is also on record saying both Fab and Keita will be in the team in time.

      Honestly, this narrative you keep pushing, it’s pathetic because there is absolutely no basis for it.

      So tell me where i am misinformed. lying, or it is pathetic to say that you can only learn so much in training..?

      You don't have to be klopp or to have played football at certain level to know that most of the things you learn comes from playing the game so yes Play them let them fail (sink) or succeeded  (swim) 

      And given we are absolutely f**king flying in the league, then no, it isn’t ‘sink or swim’ or the time to tear it all up.

      Spurs are flying Arsenal are Flying, City Are flying.. We have just been chundering along. Luck can only take you so far eventually that luck runs out

      Edit:-

      Jürgen is on record saying it takes time to adapt to our style

      And what styles is that...?? The high press that we don't no longer seem to do...??  :f_whistle:
      « Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018 05:38:56 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • *****

      • 21,379 posts | 2063 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #161: Dec 01, 2018 05:50:26 pm


      And what styles is that...?? The high press that we don't no longer seem to do...??  :f_whistle:

      Have you not read the quotes from Klopp why we changed from high press?.
      Jeez..


      harrydunn08
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,163 posts | 609 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #162: Dec 01, 2018 05:54:54 pm
      Spurs are flying Arsenal are Flying, City Are flying..

      Is that the same Arsenal that dropped points in 3 of their last 4 Prem games?  Yeah, they're really flying alright. 

      Spurs and City?  Sure, there are other sides doing well -- it's a competitive league and that's to be expected.  City are arguably the best side in the world right now, so it's really no surprise they are flying.  And yet, we are right behind them and nipping at their heels. Doesn't that mean we must be flying as well in order to be the only team within touching distance of possibly the best team in the world ???
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #163: Dec 01, 2018 06:25:51 pm
      So tell me where i am misinformed. lying, or it is pathetic to say that you can only learn so much in training..?

      This is where you show your complete ignorance of the game.

      Everything is learned in training.

      Experience is what comes from matches.

      First you learn, then you build on it by adding experience.

      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #164: Dec 01, 2018 06:26:45 pm
      Is that the same Arsenal that dropped points in 3 of their last 4 Prem games?  Yeah, they're really flying alright. 

      Spurs and City?  Sure, there are other sides doing well -- it's a competitive league and that's to be expected.  City are arguably the best side in the world right now, so it's really no surprise they are flying.  And yet, we are right behind them and nipping at their heels. Doesn't that mean we must be flying as well in order to be the only team within touching distance of possibly the best team in the world ???

      According to him and a couple of others, it's all down to luck.
      harrydunn08
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,163 posts | 609 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #165: Dec 01, 2018 06:55:23 pm
      According to him and a couple of others, it's all down to luck.

      We've ridden our luck at times -- no doubt about it!!  But then, so did City last season and that worked out for them.  It's hard to win anything of note if you don't get a bit of luck at times....  This season we've done a good job of balancing our luck, defensive resilience, and attacking firepower.  It hasn't always been pretty, but it has been pretty effective!! 😎
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #166: Dec 01, 2018 07:00:07 pm
      We've ridden our luck at times -- no doubt about it!!  But then, so did City last season and that worked out for them.  It's hard to win anything of note if you don't get a bit of luck at times....  This season we've done a good job of balancing our luck, defensive resilience, and attacking firepower.  It hasn't always been pretty, but it has been pretty effective!! 😎

      On the flip side, we've been unlucky as well.

      There's a saying in golf; "It's not how, it's how many"  ;)
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #167: Dec 01, 2018 09:09:45 pm
      Have you not read the quotes from Klopp why we changed from high press?.
      Jeez..
      Was this before or after we bought Keita and Fab'  :f_whistle:
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #168: Dec 01, 2018 09:13:16 pm
      Is that the same Arsenal that dropped points in 3 of their last 4 Prem games?  Yeah, they're really flying alright. 

      Spurs and City?  Sure, there are other sides doing well -- it's a competitive league and that's to be expected.  City are arguably the best side in the world right now, so it's really no surprise they are flying.  And yet, we are right behind them and nipping at their heels. Doesn't that mean we must be flying as well in order to be the only team within touching distance of possibly the best team in the world ???
      Point missed is that there are a lot of teams flying
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #169: Dec 01, 2018 09:20:31 pm
      This is where you show your complete ignorance of the game.

      Everything is learned in training.

      Experience is what comes from matches.

      First you learn, then you build on it by adding experience.
      Have you not notice that I have not been replying to you...??

      I will break that for this one reply...

      You Can not get that experience if you don't play, and the more regular you play the quick your learn...  :o

      Remember It is not just about technical experience, positioning etc  It is about learn your strikers runs and where they like the ball played... That you only gain by playing a long side them in matches, not on the training field  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:
      « Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018 09:38:41 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,269 posts | 1733 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #170: Dec 01, 2018 09:58:38 pm
      Have you not notice that I have not been replying to you...??

      I will break that for this one reply...

      You Can not get that experience if you don't play, and the more regular you play the quick your learn...  :o

      Remember It is not just about technical experience, positioning etc  It is about learn your strikers runs and where they like the ball played... That you only gain by playing a long side them in matches, not on the training field  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:

      Absolutely clueless.

      What do you think happens in training, do you think they just do a bit of running around then rock up to a match and watch each other thinking "hmm, I wonder what he's going to do today".

      We used to be known as having the most knowledgeable fans in football, then the internet happened and we ended up with muppets like you.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #171: Dec 02, 2018 12:03:49 am
      Absolutely clueless.

      What do you think happens in training, do you think they just do a bit of running around then rock up to a match and watch each other thinking "hmm, I wonder what he's going to do today".

      We used to be known as having the most knowledgeable fans in football, then the internet happened and we ended up with muppets like you.

       xxxxx:action-smiley-065:

      RedWilly
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,324 posts | 818 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #172: Dec 02, 2018 04:05:53 am
      So tell me where i am misinformed. lying, or it is pathetic to say that you can only learn so much in training..?

      You don't have to be klopp or to have played football at certain level to know that most of the things you learn comes from playing the game so yes Play them let them fail (sink) or succeeded  (swim) 

      Spurs are flying Arsenal are Flying, City Are flying.. We have just been chundering along. Luck can only take you so far eventually that luck runs out

      Edit:-

      And what styles is that...?? The high press that we don't no longer seem to do...??  :f_whistle:

      Every time you post on a thread you try act ‘knowledgeable’ and ‘controversial’ but you just come off as a f**king weirdo.

      Biggest weapon on the forum you are, who is so clearly clueless about anything that it’s painful to even see your name on the forum, let alone read your posts.

      P.s adding ... into every sentence doesn’t make your point any more valid.
      German_Panzer
      • Forum David Johnson
      • **

      • 215 posts | 29 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #173: Dec 02, 2018 06:33:48 am
      Could Harry Wilson be a new Coutinho?
      skolRED
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,317 posts | 103 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #174: Dec 02, 2018 10:12:29 am
      Could Harry Wilson be a new Coutinho?

      It's still far away mate imho but he's truly promising and deserve chance in our first team next season. If it's me I will move Lallana and make Harry his replacement.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #175: Dec 02, 2018 10:57:48 am
      Every time you post on a thread you try act ‘knowledgeable’ and ‘controversial’ but you just come off as a f**king weirdo.

      Biggest weapon on the forum you are, who is so clearly clueless about anything that it’s painful to even see your name on the forum, let alone read your posts.

      That is your opinion and to be honest... And  Just because you disagree with some one it does not mean they are wrong or have a valid point.

      t's my opinion, like it,lump it agree with it or disagree with it

      P.s adding ... into every sentence doesn’t make your point any more valid.

      Dots after a sentence can mean different things. ... It is usually used when you break or pause your sentence. (Which is how i us it) It usually represents the excitement of the writer ( again this applies to me) about what's happening next. These can be used at the end of a page so that the reader understands that there is something waiting for him in the next page.
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • *****

      • 21,379 posts | 2063 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #176: Dec 02, 2018 11:46:33 am
      Was this before or after we bought Keita and Fab'  :f_whistle:

      Erm.... After we bought Keita & Fab...

      We are more focused on Defence which before the arrival of VVD, We were leaking in as many as we were scoring & that was not sustainable...

      It cost Rodgers & it could cost Klopp of any silverware..
      RedWilly
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,324 posts | 818 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #177: Dec 02, 2018 12:44:33 pm

      Dots after a sentence can mean different things. ... It is usually used when you break or pause your sentence. (Which is how i us it) It usually represents the excitement of the writer ( again this applies to me) about what's happening next. These can be used at the end of a page so that the reader understands that there is something waiting for him in the next page.

      Ummm no that really isn’t what it’s for and not what it’s meant to be used for. Hence why it’s so annoying because you’re using it completely wrong.

      But thanks for the attempted grammar lesson, maybe try understand something next time before posting (which would leave you with a very low post count admittedly).
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,726 posts | 220 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #178: Dec 02, 2018 01:03:46 pm
      Could Harry Wilson be a new Coutinho?

      Or he could just be Harry Wilson.

      Little bit to early to get carried away. Takes a decent free kick but takes a bit more than that as we all know. See how he does in the second half of the season. Very often you get a better idea as defenders know a bit more about him. See how he deals with that.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,164 posts | 708 
      Re: Improving Midfield - how will it set up?
      Reply #179: Dec 02, 2018 01:31:35 pm
      Erm.... After we bought Keita & Fab...

      We are more focused on Defence which before the arrival of VVD, We were leaking in as many as we were scoring & that was not sustainable...

      It cost Rodgers & it could cost Klopp of any silverware..
      Shabs... The point I was making was that these players, well Keita at least was bought in with a view to play high press football so why would the pace of the game be an issue. Why would they need to get up to pace...?

      Quick Reply