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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Napoli?

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      Total Members Voted: 86

      Voting closed: Oct 07, 2018 09:55:03 pm

      Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #500: Oct 04, 2018 03:10:08 pm
      What Swab posted I have noticed more frequent this season where our midfielders (even Keita) have been dropping in deeper to cover our full backs when they are pushed up. But don't you feel that link between midfield and attack is missing when we see the Gini, Milner and Hendo trio? Don't you think having a more dynamic creative player would add more dominance? Yes, we would be slightly more vulnerable out of possession, but it's all about getting that balance right, right?

      I think that link is the fullbacks.
      In fact I don't really think of them as fullbacks, more as wingbacks.

      If we're pushing 5 players forwards, we're left with 2 midfielders covering behind, 1 midfielder central and recycling possession, and 2 CB,s alongside or behind him.
      To get a midfield support runner in, to break the lines, one of those fullbacks has to stay deep.

      Our whole system of play when attacking relies on nearly every player being in the opposition half, which makes it very crowded.
      That's why we see Henderson pick up the ball, and drop a bit deeper, faffing about with the 2 CB's until the opposition come out a bit, then we go wide again.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #501: Oct 04, 2018 03:18:48 pm
      I think that link is the fullbacks.
      In fact I don't really think of them as fullbacks, more as wingbacks.

      If we're pushing 5 players forwards, we're left with 2 midfielders covering behind, 1 midfielder central and recycling possession, and 2 CB,s alongside or behind him.
      To get a midfield support runner in, to break the lines, one of those fullbacks has to stay deep.

      Our whole system of play when attacking relies on nearly every player being in the opposition half, which makes it very crowded.
      That's why we see Henderson pick up the ball, and drop a bit deeper, faffing about with the 2 CB's until the opposition come out a bit, then we go wide again.

      Second half of last season was more, if one full back goes, the other stays back a bit, right? But it's different this season and very noticable.

      The only time I don't think I saw it happen was vs Southampton in the first half (think I will re-watch that half later), and I thought we killed it, but Klopp didn't seem to like what he saw from a defensive standpoint, didn't he? Hence the change.

      I think we have the quality to play like how we did vs Southampton first half on a regular basis and dominate, even vs strong teams I'd rather see us take more risks tbh.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #502: Oct 04, 2018 03:59:27 pm
      Second half of last season was more, if one full back goes, the other stays back a bit, right? But it's different this season and very noticable.

      The only time I don't think I saw it happen was vs Southampton in the first half (think I will re-watch that half later), and I thought we killed it, but Klopp didn't seem to like what he saw from a defensive standpoint, didn't he? Hence the change.

      I think we have the quality to play like how we did vs Southampton first half on a regular basis and dominate, even vs strong teams I'd rather see us take more risks tbh.

      I think this is indicative of an evolving system, and also of the opponent.

      We have a basic pattern of positions and spaces we want to attack/defend, and everything else works within them.

      If we want teams to attack a particular flank when we're defending for instance, we will use a pattern of positions and spaces to encourage them down that flank, often using a flat (not staggered) midfield 3 diagonally, to push them to that side.
      It works well when we encourage teams to attack TAA's side.
      Oppositions often see a young player as a weak link and target them, not noticing that's exactly what Klopp wants them to do, which is why we so often see Salah stay high on that side with 2 of the 3 midfielders sliding over to not only help TAA, but also to regain possession in an aggressive defensive press, so that we can release Salah.

      When we attack, our basic pattern is as I've described previously, but because we use positions and space rather than a rigid "traditional" formation, it gives us fluidity that is difficult to defend against if the opposition are trying to pick up players that are constantly changing/swapping round (this is another function of the midfield, and Firmino).
      When the opposition deploys a strictly zonal system, it makes life more difficult, and what we rely on are opposition errors, and it only takes a small mistake of a player leaving his zone, or not being in sync with his teammates to let us in.

      For as long as Klopp is here, we'll see different versions of the same basic systems; tweaks if you like, but important ones, depending on the opposition.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #503: Oct 04, 2018 05:03:54 pm
      Villarreal away, April 2016.

      This game was like that one, awful. Nobody will care about it though, if we beat them at home to make the next round.

      All the other EPL sides have lost a European Cup group game so far, except the mancs. And nobody wants to be in their shoes atm.

      We go again.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #504: Oct 04, 2018 09:08:12 pm
      Just took this little bit out of your post. It's something that annoys me to no end and I've given up trying to explain it. Our midfielders' main job is not to create. We essentially have FIVE creative players on the pitch: two full backs and the front three. One of the more advanced midfielders will also play a more offensive role. Surely that should be enough? The other two are one behind the ball and one level with the ball to protect our defense, defend the space and cut off passing lanes into the opposition forwards.

      Modric,Iniesta,Fabregas. Kross, Pobga, David Silva,Xabi Alonso All creative midfielders and all the teams they have played for have won trophies in the last ten season or so. Real, Barca,Chelsea, United, City, when saw he last time that LFC played with a creative midfield...? We won the CL with Alonso and a FA Cup, since then f**k all besides a League which we had to win on penalties...

      Teams with out the struggle
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #505: Oct 04, 2018 09:10:24 pm
      What Swab posted I have noticed more frequent this season where our midfielders (even Keita) have been dropping in deeper to cover our full backs when they are pushed up. But don't you feel that link between midfield and attack is missing when we see the Gini, Milner and Hendo trio? Don't you think having a more dynamic creative player would add more dominance? Yes, we would be slightly more vulnerable out of possession, but it's all about getting that balance right, right?

      You are spot on
      AussieRed
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #506: Oct 05, 2018 01:44:51 am
      Mad Italian bas**rds just read that Milik was mugged for his 20k Rolex in his way home from the match.

      Read the same thing and it's not the first time it's happened either. A couple of their other stars have been robbed at gun point and knife point as well. Think one of them from memory, was Insigne and as the robbers were about to leave, one turned around to Insigne and said, make sure you score next match!!! What the actual f**k!!!
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #507: Oct 05, 2018 02:04:23 am
      Are people really now trying to justify a certain players performance by saying we are reliant on our full backs for creativity and not the midfield?

       :lmao:
      Magillionare
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #508: Oct 05, 2018 08:32:35 am
      Are people really now trying to justify a certain players performance by saying we are reliant on our full backs for creativity and not the midfield?

       :lmao:

      There’s no excuse for any of them out there apart from Alisson and Joe Gomez who did well. The rest were well below par.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #509: Oct 05, 2018 08:35:07 am
      There’s no excuse for any of them out there apart from Alisson and Joe Gomez who did well. The rest were well below par.

      Couldn't agree more!
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #510: Oct 05, 2018 10:20:13 am
      Don’t post much any more for various reasons , but to read through this thread and hear that our midfield is not there to create is the most ludicrous thing I think I’ve ever heard ,
      It’s  great for us that we have unearthed two great full backs /wing backs but fundamentally our midfield should be the engine room of our play ,without an engine room things fall apart ,our front three as good as they are need a supply chain and not just from our full backs .
      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #511: Oct 05, 2018 11:03:53 am
      Don’t post much any more for various reasons , but to read through this thread and hear that our midfield is not there to create is the most ludicrous thing I think I’ve ever heard ,
      It’s  great for us that we have unearthed two great full backs /wing backs but fundamentally our midfield should be the engine room of our play ,without an engine room things fall apart ,our front three as good as they are need a supply chain and not just from our full backs .

      It’s not ludicrous - it may be a little over-stated (to make a damn good point) but in intent it’s accurate. Worth noting that the original poster’s first language is not English so treat the soundbite with a little more care.

      Our system does not rely on /  ask a traditional midfield to create as in the past. Of course we want them to use the ball well and create if possible but it’s NOT a midfield set up in the old fashioned sense.

      The midfield’s primary function is to condense, press, disrupt and move the ball quickly. It shows the evolving nature of the game which requires a change in attitude from spectators too.

      stuey
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #512: Oct 05, 2018 11:30:14 am
      Read the same thing and it's not the first time it's happened either. A couple of their other stars have been robbed at gun point and knife point as well. Think one of them from memory, was Insigne and as the robbers were about to leave, one turned around to Insigne and said, make sure you score next match!!! What the actual f**k!!!

      Agreed mate, the Italian bizzies are corrupt and f**king useless.
      If FIFA, EUFA or whatever F***ing A were any f**king good they would ban the f**k out of Italian European games in that country.
      But guess what football authorities are as corrupt as f**k.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #513: Oct 05, 2018 12:02:21 pm
      It’s not ludicrous - it may be a little over-stated (to make a damn good point) but in intent it’s accurate. Worth noting that the original poster’s first language is not English so treat the soundbite with a little more care.

      Our system does not rely on /  ask a traditional midfield to create as in the past. Of course we want them to use the ball well and create if possible but it’s NOT a midfield set up in the old fashioned sense.

      The midfield’s primary function is to condense, press, disrupt and move the ball quickly. It shows the evolving nature of the game which requires a change in attitude from spectators too.

      More important in our midfield is a runner who "breaks the lines".
      Milner has been the one doing that mostly, since Ox got injured, but I think that's why Keita was brought in as well.

      If we play with a "runner", then essentially we are playing with 6 attacking players.
      That's not to say they don't have defensive duties as well, but you can see when we are defending we use a much more "traditional" system of flat banks of 4/5.

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #514: Oct 05, 2018 12:20:31 pm
      Don’t post much any more for various reasons , but to read through this thread and hear that our midfield is not there to create is the most ludicrous thing I think I’ve ever heard ,
      It’s  great for us that we have unearthed two great full backs /wing backs but fundamentally our midfield should be the engine room of our play ,without an engine room things fall apart ,our front three as good as they are need a supply chain and not just from our full backs .

      I know  :lmao:

      I've read some absolute sh*te on here but to say we are reliant on our full backs for creativity rather than the midfield takes the piss.

      We have two great attacking full backs who are crucial for when we go forward, there is no denying that. But we're not really different to any other team in that sense as it has just become part of the modern game now. Full backs get judged nowadays on going forward more than they do on actually defending!

      To basically excuse our lack of creativity in midfield and justify their dire performances in saying the midfield three are just there to hassle and make it difficult for the opposition is laughable.

      Get used to it mate. There are half a dozen or so posters on here who will not, under any circumstances, criticise certain individuals in that midfield and they'll come out with any old sh*te to try and justify themselves.
      heimdall
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #515: Oct 05, 2018 12:30:27 pm
      It’s not ludicrous - it may be a little over-stated (to make a damn good point) but in intent it’s accurate. Worth noting that the original poster’s first language is not English so treat the soundbite with a little more care.

      Our system does not rely on /  ask a traditional midfield to create as in the past. Of course we want them to use the ball well and create if possible but it’s NOT a midfield set up in the old fashioned sense.

      The midfield’s primary function is to condense, press, disrupt and move the ball quickly. It shows the evolving nature of the game which requires a change in attitude from spectators too.



      Sorry Scotia, but that is just ludicrous, of course the midfield should be the engine room of the team and when we play well it very much is, although not when we play Hendo, Milner and Gini together which is the big problem which Klopp just isn't solving at the moment. I have no idea why Klopp doesn't like Shaquiri and Sturridge, perhaps they don't give good enough hugs or something but I have no doubt that if those 2 had played against Napoli then we would have at least drawn the game if not won it.
      racerx34
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #516: Oct 05, 2018 12:32:42 pm
      Should probably give some credit to some of the Napoli players too, especially the likes of Allan,
      who seems perfect in that double no 8 pivot we played with Gini and Hendo.

      If we are to keep Gini in the 6, where he's been at his best, then LFC could do worse than move for Allan.
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 02:17:58 pm by racerx34 »
      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #517: Oct 05, 2018 12:41:17 pm
      I know  :lmao:

      I've read some absolute sh*te on here but to say we are reliant on our full backs for creativity rather than the midfield takes the piss.

      We have two great attacking full backs who are crucial for when we go forward, there is no denying that. But we're not really different to any other team in that sense as it has just become part of the modern game now. Full backs get judged nowadays on going forward more than they do on actually defending!

      To basically excuse our lack of creativity in midfield and justify their dire performances in saying the midfield three are just there to hassle and make it difficult for the opposition is laughable.

      Get used to it mate. There are half a dozen or so posters on here who will not, under any circumstances, criticise certain individuals in that midfield and they'll come out with any old sh*te to try and justify themselves.


      Not how I see it.

      It’s a search for balance and understanding of the modern game rather than just empty tub thumping agenda merchants.......that have taken the place over.........

      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #518: Oct 05, 2018 01:07:25 pm
      Should probably give some credit to some of the Napoli players too, especially the likes of Allan,
      who seems perfect in that double no 8 pivot we played with Gini and Hendo.

      If we are to keep Gini in the 6, where he's been at his best, then LFC could do worse than move for Allan.

      If a team sit off us, I'd have Gini as the 6 (ish)
      If a team is pressing, I'd have Hendo, simply because Gini is so adept at cutting off passing lanes higher up.
      In effect it would be 2 6's with one higher up.
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 02:17:48 pm by racerx34 »
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #519: Oct 05, 2018 01:15:31 pm
      Not how I see it.

      It’s a search for balance and understanding of the modern game rather than just empty tub thumping agenda merchants.......that have taken the place over.........

      Rafa played with 2 sitting players, but in a much more rigid 4231, where he repeatedly stated that our width and creativity comes from the fullbacks.
      In that system as we know, Masch was the "destroyer" and Alonso the "deep lying playmaker" which is absolutely the right way (IMO) when you play with a formation that is so rigid.

      I think that Klopp has taken it a step further, and added fluidity and flexibility in an attacking sense, but also adapted it to give fullbacks more license to go and stay forwards.

      When we defend, the roles of players are much more "traditional" , and it's pretty easy to see the flat banks and compressed space used in conjunction with an aggressive defensive press.
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 01:40:54 pm by Swab »
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #520: Oct 05, 2018 01:20:01 pm
      Should probably give some credit to some of the Napoli players too, especially the likes of Allan,
      who seems perfect in that double no 8 pivot we played with Gini and Hendo.

      If we are to keep Gini in the 6, where he's been at his best, then LFC could do worse than move for Allan.

      Allan is an absolute beast, isn't he? Been a fan of his since I started watching Napoli last season, but wait till you see Keita in a more central role for us, you will soon forget the likes of Allan and Arthur! :)
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 02:17:32 pm by racerx34 »
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #521: Oct 05, 2018 01:41:21 pm
      Not how I see it.

      It’s a search for balance and understanding of the modern game rather than just empty tub thumping agenda merchants.......that have taken the place over.........

      I always laugh to myself when people state I have some sort of agenda when it's actually people like yourself who are defending our 28 year old captain who has made over 200 appearances for us in midfield and your shifting his responsibilities onto a teenager who plays at right back. But of course, you understand the game and everybody else doesn't.

      It's actually hysterical.
      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #522: Oct 05, 2018 02:01:41 pm
      I always laugh to myself when people state I have some sort of agenda when it's actually people like yourself who are defending our 28 year old captain who has made over 200 appearances for us in midfield and your shifting his responsibilities onto a teenager who plays at right back. But of course, you understand the game and everybody else doesn't.

      It's actually hysterical.

      Ok so most of the above is just invented and just frankly daft.

      It is hysterical how one dimensional some people allow themselves to be.

      Spot on.

      The post that fuelled your latest diatribe at Henderson (who was poor on Wed) pointed out that our system doesn’t ask our midfielders to be traditional playmakers.

      That’s also spot on.

      But hey - you’re the super fan who just says it as it is and is being repressed by anybody who actually finds your rhetoric utterly repetitive and dull eh?
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 03:01:37 pm by Scotia »
      racerx34
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #523: Oct 05, 2018 02:22:48 pm
      Allan is an absolute beast, isn't he? Been a fan of his since I started watching Napoli last season, but wait till you see Keita in a more central role for us, you will soon forget the likes of Allan and Arthur! :)

      I'm sure if Keita had remained injury free we'd be having a different discussion,
      but him coming off was a bit like Ox, in that it took that driving force out of midfield.

      I quite liked the 3 with Fabinho, Gini & Hendo at times,
      but ultimately we ended up with 2 no 8's doing a lot of covering and nobody pushing up enough to cause Napoli problems.
      That's something we'll only really see with Keita or Ox, but from Napoli's point of view (Allan) there was a lot of drive and then
      some distribution too, something LFC lacked.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #524: Oct 05, 2018 02:30:45 pm
      Plenty are laying the blame at our so called under performing midfield. It's probably true that Klopp is still trying to get the balance right in midfield. He lost Coutinho for the second half of last season. Ox came in and also the front 3 were firing on all cylinders. So the issue of getting the right balance was sorted somewhat.

      Come the new season-Ox out, Keita,Fabinho in. So the midfield balance issue was back on. But it must be noted that if...IF striker don't convert then that is not the fault of the midfield and the fact is we have missed a lot of chances. If those had been converted the midfield wouldn't be getting so much stick.

      I mean Hendo will get stick no matter what but Klopp knows what he brings to the side. He doesn't judge him on some fantasy " Roy of the Rovers" deal or " Captain fantastic" the way some do.

      This Napoli performance was on the cards- Klopp knew it - I knew it. So did quite a few on here. Obviously some will blame Hendo.
      It's good that we have City next up. An easy or easier home game might've worked against us. As it is we will have to step up. A lot will be learnt from this game.

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