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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Napoli?

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      Total Members Voted: 86

      Voting closed: Oct 07, 2018 09:55:03 pm

      Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      FL Red
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #525: Oct 05, 2018 02:32:03 pm
      There’s no excuse for any of them out there apart from Alisson and Joe Gomez who did well. The rest were well below par.

      Yea, and the midfield was exceptionally poor.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #526: Oct 05, 2018 02:32:43 pm
      I'm sure if Keita had remained injury free we'd be having a different discussion,
      but him coming off was a bit like Ox, in that it took that driving force out of midfield.

      I quite liked the 3 with Fabinho, Gini & Hendo at times,
      but ultimately we ended up with 2 no 8's doing a lot of covering and nobody pushing up enough to cause Napoli problems.
      That's something we'll only really see with Keita or Ox, but from Napoli's point of view (Allan) there was a lot of drive and then
      some distribution too, something LFC lacked.

      It was noticeable on watching again that Firmino was continually thwarted when he tried to drop deep, by the simple expedient of blocking his direct running line.
      It meant he couldn't get back as quickly as usual, and really affected his defensive work.
      Napoli did a lot of blocking (not fouling as such, but little bits of jostling, and tugs that the ref didn't notice) and taking a player out early if he looked like he was going to break.
      It was effective, and some might say canny, but for me, a stronger ref would have stopped it by booking a couple of players early on, especially the drag backs on Mane, and some of the manhandling of Salah.
      For me, it crossed the line between being clever and cheating, but I don't moan when we do it (I applaud it) so I'm not going to be a hypocrite by making a big deal out of it.
      Suffice to say it affected us a fair bit, and was doubtless part of Ancelotti's gameplan.
      racerx34
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #527: Oct 05, 2018 02:34:09 pm
      Plenty are laying the blame at our so called under performing midfield. It's probably true that Klopp is still trying to get the balance right in midfield. He lost Coutinho for the second half of last season. Ox came in and also the front 3 were firing on all cylinders. So the issue of getting the right balance was sorted somewhat.

      Come the new season-Ox out, Keita,Fabinho in. So the midfield balance issue was back on. But it must be noted that if...IF striker don't convert then that is not the fault of the midfield and the fact is we have missed a lot of chances. If those had been converted the midfield wouldn't be getting so much stick.

      I mean Hendo will get stick no matter what but Klopp knows what he brings to the side. He doesn't judge him on some fantasy " Roy of the Rovers" deal or " Captain fantastic" the way some do.

      This Napoli performance was on the cards- Klopp knew it - I knew it. So did quite a few on here. Obviously some will blame Hendo.
      It's good that we have City next up. An easy or easier home game might've worked against us. As it is we will have to step up. A lot will be learnt from this game.

      City's playing style will suit the team that started against Napoli.
      Main issue is that the front 3 are not on form, and we all know that.
      In a situation like that, with Napoli keeping things tight between the lines,
      more creativity was needed from midfield and, after Keita went off,
      there wasn't really that option.
      racerx34
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #528: Oct 05, 2018 02:37:06 pm
      It was noticeable on watching again that Firmino was continually thwarted when he tried to drop deep, by the simple expedient of blocking his direct running line.
      It meant he couldn't get back as quickly as usual, and really affected his defensive work.
      Napoli did a lot of blocking (not fouling as such, but little bits of jostling, and tugs that the ref didn't notice) and taking a player out early if he looked like he was going to break.
      It was effective, and some might say canny, but for me, a stronger ref would have stopped it by booking a couple of players early on, especially the drag backs on Mane, and some of the manhandling of Salah.
      For me, it crossed the line between being clever and cheating, but I don't moan when we do it (I applaud it) so I'm not going to be a hypocrite by making a big deal out of it.
      Suffice to say it affected us a fair bit, and was doubtless part of Ancelotti's gameplan.

      I understand that, but I think if there is more threat coming from midfield, in the way Ox did last year,
      then it forces the other team to push up a bit to deal with that threat and allows the front 3 more space,
      if they don't push up then we see what happened with Ox driving into space and getting a shot off to score.
      Don't have that threat in the team at the moment.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #529: Oct 05, 2018 02:40:11 pm
      I understand that, but I think if there is more threat coming from midfield, in the way Ox did last year,
      then it forces the other team to push up a bit to deal with that threat and allows the front 3 more space,
      if they don't push up then we see what happened with Ox driving into space and getting a shot off to score.
      Don't have that threat in the team at the moment.

      True, Milner is trying to do that job at the moment, with varying degrees of success.
      racerx34
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #530: Oct 05, 2018 02:42:21 pm
      True, Milner is trying to do that job at the moment, with varying degrees of success.

      A lot to ask of us older lads.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #531: Oct 05, 2018 02:52:00 pm
      City's playing style will suit the team that started against Napoli.
      Main issue is that the front 3 are not on form, and we all know that.
      In a situation like that, with Napoli keeping things tight between the lines,
      more creativity was needed from midfield and, after Keita went off,
      there wasn't really that option.

      I think we need to take the game to City. Throw Shaq in there. Trying to outplay City in midfield or any patient build up game won't work. Get on the front foot and attack. We did that under Rodgers- it nearly worked, but we just didn't have a strong enough defence to finish the job. Klopp is an attacking coach and now that he has a much stronger defence I think he has to go for it. Slight problem is he is over maned in midfield and might get distracted from setting up to attack, attack confident in the knowledge that we have real strength in defence.Go for it, get Shaq in there and attack them from the off.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #532: Oct 05, 2018 03:01:18 pm
      I understand that, but I think if there is more threat coming from midfield, in the way Ox did last year,
      then it forces the other team to push up a bit to deal with that threat and allows the front 3 more space,
      if they don't push up then we see what happened with Ox driving into space and getting a shot off to score.
      Don't have that threat in the team at the moment.

      I agree, as good as Keita has been, he is not a natural #10/AMC, and will never have that same impact that Ox or Shaqiri gives.

      But you know, the problem in midfield wasn't just not having an Ox, Shaq or Keita for the final third.

      Quote from: Wijnaldum
      They did well; they were calm and played the ball around and waited for the moments. That’s why they were so good.

      We have done it better this season, so we can do it – but we have to do it every game. That’s why we’re all so disappointed, because we expect more and to bring more. It didn’t happen but we still have four games to go.

      https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/319652-wijnaldum-liverpool-napoli-reaction

      Moving our most technical and tactical player away from the hub allowed Napoli to really dominate. We just didn't have that player comfortable in congested areas and to take a foothold of the game.

      And I do agree, the midfield looked better with Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Hendo, but ultimately, it was too late.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #533: Oct 05, 2018 03:45:21 pm

      Hah!

      I can't run properly since I got my new hip.
      It feels weird as f**k.

      Thanks for the input lads, some good points to consider, and some new things to watch out for :)
      Magillionare
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #534: Oct 05, 2018 05:03:16 pm
      Yea, and the midfield was exceptionally poor.

      Front 3 don’t have a free pass either, thought our performers got worse as the ball went up the field.

      Just kept losing the ball over and over.

      Off day. Move one. Smash City.
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2018 05:08:44 pm by Magillionare »
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #535: Oct 05, 2018 10:59:07 pm
      Ok so most of the above is just invented and just frankly daft.

      It is hysterical how one dimensional some people allow themselves to be.

      Spot on.

      The post that fuelled your latest diatribe at Henderson (who was poor on Wed) pointed out that our system doesn’t ask our midfielders to be traditional playmakers.

      That’s also spot on.

      But hey - you’re the super fan who just says it as it is and is being repressed by anybody who actually finds your rhetoric utterly repetitive and dull eh?

      A wum or not a true supporter one minute and then a super fan the next.

      Anything to suit the pro Henderson agendas.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #536: Oct 05, 2018 11:34:53 pm
      It’s not ludicrous - it may be a little over-stated (to make a damn good point) but in intent it’s accurate. Worth noting that the original poster’s first language is not English so treat the soundbite with a little more care.

      Our system does not rely on /  ask a traditional midfield to create as in the past. Of course we want them to use the ball well and create if possible but it’s NOT a midfield set up in the old fashioned sense.

      The midfield’s primary function is to condense, press, disrupt and move the ball quickly. It shows the evolving nature of the game which requires a change in attitude from spectators too.



      That may seem to be the case and it seems Klopp has realised the limitations of the midfielders at our disposal. Hence the upgrade in technical players - Fab and Keita.

      Klopp is no fool and is trying to mitigate against the limitations of the current incumbents.

      Relying on the fullbacks to provide creativity to the forward line as we have seen recently is too easy to negate for the opposition.

      We were at our devestating best last season with Ox running with the ball or finding the front 3 with quick balls. Breaking that first line of defence at pace.

      Until we have a midfielder who can link up midfield and and the front 3, Keita or Ox then Klopp will keep employing alternative methods, fortunately it’s only a matter of time until Fab is up to speed hence Gini and Keita can play that role.

      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #537: Oct 06, 2018 12:52:36 am
      A wum or not a true supporter one minute and then a super fan the next.

      Anything to suit the pro Henderson agendas.

      This has nowt to do with Henderson for the love of god - you are utterly obsessed 🤷‍♂️
      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #538: Oct 06, 2018 12:56:36 am
      That may seem to be the case and it seems Klopp has realised the limitations of the midfielders at our disposal. Hence the upgrade in technical players - Fab and Keita.

      Klopp is no fool and is trying to mitigate against the limitations of the current incumbents.

      Relying on the fullbacks to provide creativity to the forward line as we have seen recently is too easy to negate for the opposition.

      We were at our devestating best last season with Ox running with the ball or finding the front 3 with quick balls. Breaking that first line of defence at pace.

      Until we have a midfielder who can link up midfield and and the front 3, Keita or Ox then Klopp will keep employing alternative methods, fortunately it’s only a matter of time until Fab is up to speed hence Gini and Keita can play that role.


      It IS the case.

      Again - it wasn’t my post but the point the writer (who has a very good technical understanding) was making is sound.

      No one is saying the midfield CAN’T create.......what he said is that’s NOT their primary function in our team.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #539: Oct 06, 2018 01:15:27 am
      It IS the case.

      Again - it wasn’t my post but the point the writer (who has a very good technical understanding) was making is sound.

      No one is saying the midfield CAN’T create.......what he said is that’s NOT their primary function in our team.

      Why did we chase fekir all summer then?

      Why did we sign the ox?

      Why did we sign Keita?

      Why was coutinho moved into the middle to play as part of the Fab Four?

      Why has klopp gone on record dozens of time and stated how much we miss Adam Lallana who was also moved into the middle before his injury?

      If creativity IS NOT THE MIDFIELDS PRIMARY FUNCTION then why don't Wijnaldum, Milner and Henderson start every single game for us then who most would consider our best runners?

      Why don't we sign more players in that type of mold then? Work horses?

      Because after all we rely on on our full backs for creativity don't we.  :lmao:

      It's f**king insane that people think we will win trophies without creativity from our midfield and that they even come on Internet forums talking absolute sh*te about it trying to sound educated. I've never read so much rubbish about football in my whole life.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #540: Oct 06, 2018 03:03:15 am
      Well if we can take any postives from the game then it’s the good news that Keita didn’t suffer a serious injury.
      Swab
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #541: Oct 06, 2018 12:05:11 pm
      That may seem to be the case and it seems Klopp has realised the limitations of the midfielders at our disposal. Hence the upgrade in technical players - Fab and Keita.

      Klopp is no fool and is trying to mitigate against the limitations of the current incumbents.

      Relying on the fullbacks to provide creativity to the forward line as we have seen recently is too easy to negate for the opposition.

      We were at our devestating best last season with Ox running with the ball or finding the front 3 with quick balls. Breaking that first line of defence at pace.

      Until we have a midfielder who can link up midfield and and the front 3, Keita or Ox then Klopp will keep employing alternative methods, fortunately it’s only a matter of time until Fab is up to speed hence Gini and Keita can play that role.

      The only difference between last season and this season is that we have Milner as the "runner" to try and break the lines.

      Klopp using fullbacks as attacking players is nothing to do with mitigation or anything else, it's his plan, it's his main tactic, it's why he has TAA (a converted midfielder) at FB instead of Clyne.
      It's Rafa's tactics but more evolved and more fluid/dynamic.
      Scotia
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #542: Oct 06, 2018 01:33:35 pm
      Why did we chase fekir all summer then?

      Why did we sign the ox?

      Why did we sign Keita?


      Because we don’t have that creativity at present......so we don’t set up to play that way?

      F**k me it’s not that complicated if you try thinking instead of grandstanding and spouting monotonous white noise like the shouty drunken guy......

      If you think it’s hard reading my posts - try reading the posts of the morons that just trumpet for the masses and with zero understanding of the game.

      Utter drivel.

      Ignored
      « Last Edit: Oct 06, 2018 02:31:20 pm by Scotia »
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #543: Oct 06, 2018 06:57:39 pm
      Because we don’t have that creativity at present......so we don’t set up to play that way?

      F**k me it’s not that complicated if you try thinking instead of grandstanding and spouting monotonous white noise like the shouty drunken guy......

      If you think it’s hard reading my posts - try reading the posts of the morons that just trumpet for the masses and with zero understanding of the game.

      Utter drivel.

      Ignored

      What a load of tosh. As usual people making excuses for the garbage performances Henderson puts in.

      Basically if he doesn't have somebody next to him or the front three to bail him out then it's Trent Alexander Arnold's fault for why we can't create anything  :lmao:

      Absolute f**king tosh.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #544: Oct 07, 2018 04:40:47 am
      Quote from Swab
      Napoli did a lot of blocking (not fouling as such, but little bits of jostling, and tugs that the ref didn't notice) and taking a player out early if he looked like he was going to break.
      It was effective, and some might say canny, but for me, a stronger ref would have stopped it by booking a couple of players early on, especially the drag backs on Mane, and some of the manhandling of Salah.
      For me, it crossed the line between being clever and cheating, but I don't moan when we do it (I applaud it) so I'm not going to be a hypocrite by making a big deal out of it.

      Well you should. It is cheating, whether we do it or the opposition do. VAR is designed to cut the dark arts crap out of football, and next year we will have it in the European Cup. Tugs and taking players out will be spotted and once players know that, they'll stop doing it. Like they did at the World Cup.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Napoli 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #545: Oct 09, 2018 10:34:43 am
      Well you should. It is cheating, whether we do it or the opposition do. VAR is designed to cut the dark arts crap out of football, and next year we will have it in the European Cup. Tugs and taking players out will be spotted and once players know that, they'll stop doing it. Like they did at the World Cup.

      VAR wont stop the niggly fouls on the half way line. It's not looking at those types of fouls its red card offences, and the rest is goal mouth stuff only really.

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