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      Today is the 24th of April and on this date LFC's match record is P25 W10 D8 L7

      Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)

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      PGlynn91
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      Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Oct 25, 2018 12:31:48 pm



      Very difficult to guess how Jürgen will pick the eleven here but whatever team he does choose will have enough to get the job done!

      Red Star were the perfect European team for the front three to start clicking into gear and without complacency, Cardiff at Anfield should be the perfect league game! 4-0 Reds again!  :kop5cf8koxp6:
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #1: Oct 25, 2018 12:57:16 pm
      Surely Fabinho starts after a great performance, same for Shaqiri.

      Front 3 the same.

      Salah, Mane and Firmino to all score again :)
      rossyred
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #2: Oct 25, 2018 12:59:42 pm
      Surely Fabinho starts after a great performance, same for Shaqiri.

      Front 3 the same.

      Salah, Mane and Firmino to all score again :)

      I would tbh still think Hendo has part to play when we are away or could be under fish but against teams like Cardiff Fabinho offers more direct threat going forward which we need
      Brian78
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #3: Oct 25, 2018 01:00:04 pm
      Change nothing. Last nights 11 is our best bar maybe when Keita gets going
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #4: Oct 25, 2018 01:02:39 pm
      Change nothing. Last nights 11 is our best bar maybe when Keita gets going

      Keita for who though? Wijnaldum was so good.

      It’s going to be interesting once everyone’s fit
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #5: Oct 25, 2018 01:11:16 pm
      Change nothing. Last nights 11 is our best bar maybe when Keita gets going

      Absolutely,  same again for cardiff, maybe think about a spot of tinkering for the arse but one game at a time as the old cliche goes
      heimdall
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #6: Oct 25, 2018 01:44:12 pm
      Keita for who though? Wijnaldum was so good.

      It’s going to be interesting once everyone’s fit

      I know, finally proper competition in midfield, plus the ability to make a sub without losing quality and even make a sub to change things up. Must be lovely for Jürgen to finally have some options in the centre of the park.
      Brian78
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #7: Oct 25, 2018 01:44:29 pm
      think about a spot of tinkering for the arse

      oh suit you sir oh oh  ;D
      Swab
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #8: Oct 25, 2018 02:05:41 pm



      Very difficult to guess how Jürgen will pick the eleven here but whatever team he does choose will have enough to get the job done!

      Red Star were the perfect European team for the front three to start clicking into gear and without complacency, Cardiff at Anfield should be the perfect league game! 4-0 Reds again!  :kop5cf8koxp6:

      Don't think Henderson is going to be ready for this.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #9: Oct 25, 2018 02:09:54 pm
      Cardiff is going to be entirely different than last night remember who there manager is WARNOCK. He hates us and will delight in kicking Mo and Bobby off the pitch. This is a game where Milner will excel and so would Henderson so it will be interesting to see what Jürgen does we have a really good strong squad and this is going to be a long successful season
      Swab
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #10: Oct 25, 2018 02:12:49 pm
      Jordan Henderson and Naby Keita have been ruled out of Liverpool's Champions League tie with Red Star Belgrade on Wednesday night.

      Henderson – who will also miss the weekend visit of Cardiff City in the Premier League – was taken off with a hamstring issue at half-time against Huddersfield Town last Saturday.

      Keita has been sidelined since sustaining a hamstring strain on international duty earlier this month. He is back running at Melwood but the Reds’ third Group C fixture comes too soon for him to feature.

      "It’s not too good, to be honest," Klopp told Liverpoolfc.com when asked about Henderson's condition. "It’s nothing we have to worry too much about, but it’s a hamstring issue so we will have to see. He will not be available for tomorrow for sure, and probably not Cardiff, but hopefully then he can be back. We will see."

      Meanwhile, Klopp confirmed Keita has taken a positive step forward in his recovery, but won't be involved tomorrow night.

      "Naby is already outside running, but the game tomorrow will be too early for sure," he said.

      https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/321932-jordan-henderson-naby-keita-fitness-injury-update
      adammac
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #11: Oct 25, 2018 02:46:17 pm
      I can see a couple of changes for this match but pretty much be the same team that we saw mid-week. Game should be more physical then vs Red Star but we should be looking for similar result where keep clean sheet and have a handful of goals.

      -------------------Alisson-------------------
      TAA--------VvD-----------Lovern----Robbo
      -----Milner------Fabinho-----Shaqiri-------
      --Salah----------Firmino------------Mane--
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #12: Oct 25, 2018 03:30:14 pm
      We are at a point where we have quality depth in every position.  I expect Jürgen to make 1 or 2 changes in almost every game to help keep players fresh.  Milner could come on for Gini or Shaq.  Studge could come on for any of the front 3.  Lovren could come on for Gomez.  Etc.  None of these changes would be detrimental to the quality of the side.  It's a great thing for Jürgen to have so many options, and a great thing for Liverpool fans. 

      I think we're due a big win in the league.  Going for a 5-0 for the Reds!!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #13: Oct 25, 2018 03:43:37 pm
      With no game midweek, there shouldn't be much need to rest anyone, so it's just a matter of Jürgen's thoughts about team and system. I see a few here suggesting Gomez moves to the bench and I don't get that one at all. Lovren may come in, but if he does, I expect Joe to move to right back.

      The midfield three might post some questions. Shaquiri is the best we have at the moment re unlocking defenses (I had though Keita would be this player for us this season, but not thus far), so if Jürgen can tolerate whatever is lacking on the defensive side, he may get the nod again. Otherwise, Milner would come back in. I expect Gini and Fab to both be on.

      There won't be nearly as much space to operate in on Saturday, so I'm  not expecting another 4-0.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #14: Oct 25, 2018 05:11:55 pm

      Will be harder against the arse for sure
      RedWilly
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #15: Oct 25, 2018 07:30:46 pm
      Please please please smash that ugly c**t Colin w**ker to the bottom of the table!!
      clint_call01
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #16: Oct 25, 2018 08:58:25 pm
      NB: Team no longer available

      I would rest Mane and Gomez.
      Billy1
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #17: Oct 25, 2018 11:36:21 pm
      Just beat the Taffy Apples get the 3 points and remain unbeaten in the league.Now that Mo is hitting the goals again it could be a high scoring match.Oh and I hope Virgil remains captain.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #18: Oct 26, 2018 07:25:23 am
      NB: Team no longer available

      I would rest Mane and Gomez.

      Feels too defensive and why would you rest Mane, he didn’t play against Huddersfield. The front 3 are getting their mojo back...
      Magillionare
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #19: Oct 26, 2018 07:45:07 am
      I’d go with the same team as Wednesday night.
      billythered
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #20: Oct 26, 2018 10:19:52 am
      Against Cardiff I'd be going for the throat from the get go, we have 10 goal deficit on Shitty and that has to close, so a perfect opportunity to do just that, i would go with this.......

                               Allisson
          Trent Gomez Virgil Robertson
                             Fabinho
                  Milner              Wijnaldom
                     Salah Firmino Mane

      No F***ing about,  put the Taffs to the sword and get us on a unstoppable charge to the Title!!

      5-0 Champions Elect


      YNWA
      heimdall
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #21: Oct 26, 2018 10:22:40 am
      Against Cardiff I'd be going for the throat from the get go, we have 10 goal deficit on Shitty and that has to close, so a perfect opportunity to do just that, i would go with this.......

                               Allisson
          Trent Gomez Virgil Robertson
                             Fabinho
                  Milner              Wijnaldom
                     Salah Firmino Mane

      No f**king about,  put the Taffs to the sword and get us on a unstoppable charge to the Title!!

      5-0 Champions Elect


      YNWA

      Why would you replace Shaq with Millie when we need all the attack we can get in this game?
      SM
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #22: Oct 26, 2018 11:15:39 am
      Only change I can see is Gomez in at RB with Lovren at CB but Im assuming Cardiff are a long ball team if not then we go with the same team as against Red Star as it was very fluent.

      3 - 0
      skamp
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #23: Oct 26, 2018 11:26:39 am
      Same team as midweek; go 3 up and rest a few for the Gooners game. 

      Put the points on the board to put a bit of pressure on our rivals, most of who have tricky fixtures the weekend.

      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #24: Oct 26, 2018 11:46:29 am
      We had an easy game in midweek so a lot less tinkering for this one needed i think.

      Full team with a week until the next game.

      If a full team contains Shaquiri these days is probably a debate to be had. I think he may unfortunately miss out personally.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #25: Oct 26, 2018 12:57:11 pm
      5-0 to shut that dick Warnock up..
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #26: Oct 26, 2018 01:08:05 pm
      Same team with Shaqiri and Fabinho cementing their places even further. The front 6 of Fabinho, Wijnaldum,Shaqiri,Mane,Firmino,Salah is obviously very attacking. But does it leave us light in midfield as Shaq plays quite high in support of the front 3.

      Probably not an issue against the likes of Cardiff at home but in tough away games against top 8-12 teams it might cause a problem.
      Mickred
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #27: Oct 26, 2018 01:23:12 pm
      I can see Cardiff doing a damage limitation and parking bus.

      scrappy 2-0 win for me.
      heimdall
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #28: Oct 26, 2018 01:58:53 pm
      Same team with Shaqiri and Fabinho cementing their places even further. The front 6 of Fabinho, Wijnaldum,Shaqiri,Mane,Firmino,Salah is obviously very attacking. But does it leave us light in midfield as Shaq plays quite high in support of the front 3.

      Probably not an issue against the likes of Cardiff at home but in tough away games against top 8-12 teams it might cause a problem.

      Which is why its not to have the options to make it more defensive in those type of games by deploying Henderson and/or Milner although Fabinho and Wijnaldum can also play more defensively if needed.
      heimdall
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #29: Oct 26, 2018 01:59:39 pm
      I can see Cardiff doing a damage limitation and parking bus.

      scrappy 2-0 win for me.

      I'm not sure they have a bus to park, I think if we score early then this will be a rout.
      molbys belly
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #30: Oct 26, 2018 03:13:50 pm
      I went for 5-0
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #31: Oct 26, 2018 03:48:32 pm
      Going to be tougher than a lot of people reckon on here
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #32: Oct 26, 2018 04:37:21 pm
      I think that's optimistic. I only put 3-0.
      siavashiva
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #33: Oct 26, 2018 05:13:47 pm
      I went for a 4-0 rout, but have feeling it's not going to be as easy. They beat their direct rivals last week and must be high on confidence. They are gonna give us a game, but we should have enough to beat them.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #34: Oct 26, 2018 05:24:05 pm
      Going to be tougher than a lot of people reckon on here

      Dunno, didn't it only take one big win in the champs league last year to kick start us smashing teams left, right and centre.

      Got a feeling that is about to happen again starting tomorrow.

      I've gone for a very optimistic 7 - 0, someone is going to get a real beating soon and I think it might just be tomorrow.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #35: Oct 26, 2018 06:12:20 pm
      Dunno, didn't it only take one big win in the champs league last year to kick start us smashing teams left, right and centre.

      Got a feeling that is about to happen again starting tomorrow.

      I've gone for a very optimistic 7 - 0, someone is going to get a real beating soon and I think it might just be tomorrow.

      Hope you are right
      Swab
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #36: Oct 26, 2018 06:55:29 pm
      Colin w**ker rarely sends out a team that is not well drilled defensively and difficult to break down.

      He'll park the bus and try to nick one on the break.

      billythered
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #37: Oct 26, 2018 07:12:18 pm
      Why would you replace Shaq with Millie when we need all the attack we can get in this game?



      Cos Millie was rested against Belgrade and it has to be said he's been arguably our best player this season prior to his hammy injury, Shaq for all his goodness is still behind Millie in the pecking order and effectively a squad player,

      Isn't it great tho that we can argue like F**k over who favours who,rather than having to accept a player because he's all we have, how things have changed eh ?

      Nothing wrong with Shaq playing, in all honesty I'd be perfectly happy if he does, I just think Millie takes presedence and apart from that he doesn't deserved to be dropped just because another player shone in a different set up.


      YNWA
      David Wright
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #38: Oct 26, 2018 07:14:34 pm
      Cardiff may obviously try to park the bus. Going for a 3  0 win, for the Reds. Feel an early goal, will make Cardiff come out, and try to play a bit, but anyway another win surely on the cards.
      GERNS
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #39: Oct 26, 2018 11:08:12 pm
      While everyone who started in the week is up on a high, start with them again. It can only get better as the confidence soars. Putting Millie or Hendo, or even Lovren in against the likes of Cardiff, will only serve as a negative change. We have to go for the throat in these games so City don't steal to much of a margin in the goal difference. They have a difficult game at the weekend, so lets take advantage while our front three are buzzing again.
      With the same 11, i'm going for 4-0 but think it could be possibly more.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #40: Oct 26, 2018 11:13:59 pm
      A home win for sure...but I wouldn't advise Klopp to spend to much time talking to Warnock after the game as he might end up with a used car with only 2 months MOT on it and an oil leak..
      rossyred
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #41: Oct 26, 2018 11:27:24 pm
      Lovren might come in for this to cope with the bombardment of long throws and long balls when they get the ball that is
      HScRed1
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #42: Oct 26, 2018 11:28:46 pm
      Lovren might come in for this to cope with the bombardment of long throws and long balls when they get the ball that is

      Yeah I imagine Gomez might be RB seeing as though Trent is not exactly tearing up any trees at the moment.

      rossyred
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #43: Oct 27, 2018 12:09:45 am
      Yeah I imagine Gomez might be RB seeing as though Trent is not exactly tearing up any trees at the moment.

      Don't like Joe Going out there as he is so good at CB but against these their only threat is aerial so should at least be ready for it
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #44: Oct 27, 2018 12:55:21 am
      I can't imagine any rotation in this because after Cardiff there will be a week before the Arsenal game.
      I don't think we will need to rotate any players much until December unless there are injuries.
      We should just go with first XI for the next few games and give people like Lovren the last 20 minutes when we are 3 nill up
      joemack
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #45: Oct 27, 2018 01:20:32 am
      I wouldn't mind seeing the same 11 that started midweek, be good for Fabhino to get some decent time in, also shaq is playing some great football, slide rule passing into the box, Mo could really benefit from this.

      Come you mighty reds.
      joemack
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #46: Oct 27, 2018 01:21:51 am
      Also I'm looking for some help here with streaming the matches, anyone got any decent tips, sites etc?

      Cheers

      Scottbot
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #47: Oct 27, 2018 07:58:03 am
      Am hoping to see Gomez stay at centre back again for this one. Even though he has done ok it kinda feels like Lovren is being shoe-horned into the side recently. VVD and Gomez are comfortably our best partnership at the back. We will have most of the possession so it makes better sense that that Trent plays as well. I’d like to see Shaqiri keep his place but don’t be surprised if Lallana gets another start, klopp loves him and he looks fit. Milner will come in for Fabinho I think. I’ve got no problem with that, he has been excellent this season. Fabinho is making strides but everyone is getting a little bit carried away following a good performance against a poor opponent in mid week (although it bodes well for the future). I expect he will start the away game in Belgrade.
      skolRED
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #48: Oct 27, 2018 10:08:35 am


      Cos Millie was rested against Belgrade and it has to be said he's been arguably our best player this season prior to his hammy injury, Shaq for all his goodness is still behind Millie in the pecking order and effectively a squad player,

      Isn't it great tho that we can argue like f**k over who favours who,rather than having to accept a player because he's all we have, how things have changed eh ?

      Nothing wrong with Shaq playing, in all honesty I'd be perfectly happy if he does, I just think Millie takes presedence and apart from that he doesn't deserved to be dropped just because another player shone in a different set up.


      YNWA

      Agree Milner is great so far mate but Shaq is definitely only effective player now we have to help our front three back to their form. 

      Also if it's me I would consider Milner to slot in at LB as it's sure Robbo will need some rest and I preferred Milner at LB than Moreno.

      I go for 3-0 win, COYR :scarf:
      Scottbot
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #49: Oct 27, 2018 10:45:36 am
      Obviously the first goal is absolutely key today, get one early and you fancy us to roll them over but Warnocks sides are stubborn as fook and the linger they go without conceding the more they will grow in confidence. Don't are if we tw*t them or not so long as we win. City playing Spuds so someone will be dropping points (hopefully both of them if it's a draw) so it's important we capitalise with 3 points today.

      I've given Mane the Captains armband for my fantasy team and fact he will be the key player today.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #50: Oct 27, 2018 11:37:44 am
      I wanted Warnock humbled I cant stand him. this will either be a scrappy 1-0 or a complete demolition with 5 or 6 going in.

      Shaq brought a different threat against Red Star so I don't think Jürgen will change too much with a side that gave its best performance so far.
      JD
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #51: Oct 27, 2018 11:37:47 am
      The team did do well against Red Star but I don't see any problem with bringing Milner back in for Gini or Fabinho to keep things competitive.

      Shaqiri going off after the hour suggests that he is probably going to start.

      Let's get the three points in a hopefully more convincing way than v Huddersfield, and then sit back and enjoy City, Spurs or both dropping points on Monday night.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #52: Oct 27, 2018 12:38:47 pm
      Also I'm looking for some help here with streaming the matches, anyone got any decent tips, sites etc?

      Cheers

      Have you tried using Acestream?

      My lad put it on the PC for me, and it usually works a treat, plus it lets you record the matches.

      SopCast I think is another one.
      The Real Donavan Ried
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 5,120 posts | 949 
      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #53: Oct 27, 2018 01:11:33 pm
      Also I'm looking for some help here with streaming the matches, anyone got any decent tips, sites etc?

      Cheers
      The say that if you want a better steam you should...

      a) clear your Browser History, *takes up memory needed to buff streams*

      b) Turn off your hardware accelerate... Start up bar,Control panel, Display, Settings, Advance, Troubleshoot, then slide Hardware accelerator to none. Hit apply, ok then you can exit... They say it again * takes up memory needed to buff streams*
      Seems to work for me, mind you are good broadband connection helps too  ;D

      c) Most Important for anyone streaming... Turn off and unplug broadband from the mains and leave for about 1 minute plug back in allow to reboot.... ALL DIGITAL SYSTEMS need to have this done to them every now and then... Remember try and do this allowing enough time for your PC/Laptop to reconnect and for you to fine a stream that works for you. Depending on your ISP some streaming sights will work better than others and some will just not work at all..
      Also remember that some streams you have to move the cursor on screen every ten mins or so, else it returns to your saver screen on the devices 
      « Last Edit: Oct 27, 2018 01:26:10 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #54: Oct 27, 2018 01:31:03 pm
      This game on sky or BT?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #55: Oct 27, 2018 01:50:18 pm
      Going to be tougher than a lot of people reckon on here

      Shhh. Don't tip everyone off? I need to gain some ground in the prediccy contest.
      FATKOPITE10
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      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Pre-Match: Liverpool V Cardiff City (27/10/18 - 15:00)
      Reply #56: Oct 27, 2018 01:51:50 pm

      Neither

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