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      Today is the 19th of October and on this date LFC's match record is P28 W11 D10 L7

      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Cardiff?

       Alisson
      0 (0%)
      Trent Alexander-Arnold
      0 (0%)
      Dejan Lovren
      0 (0%)
      Virgil van Dijk
      1 (0.9%)
      Alberto Moreno
      0 (0%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)
       Fabinho
      7 (6.2%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      6 (5.3%)
      Sadio Mane
      24 (21.2%)
      Mohammed Salah
      65 (57.5%)
      Roberto Firmino
      0 (0%)
      Xherdan Shaqiri
      10 (8.8%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 113

      Voting closed: Oct 31, 2018 03:51:17 pm

      Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Jimsouse67
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #375: Oct 28, 2018 08:18:41 am
      Think it's safe to say now that the days of the fragile mentality are gone now.

      We are very solid now. Probably the most solid we've ever been in a long f**king time.

      Teams genuinely fear us now that we don't have a liability at GK or defence.

      Great times ahead.
      Yep,I think plenty of us on these boards no longer sh*t ourselves when the opposition gets in our box I know I don't & by the looks of things our back line don't either ,great times ahead indeed.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #376: Oct 28, 2018 08:29:59 am
      Really weird game, we dominated the vast majority of that game but didn't quite click until the last few minutes. I'm still slightly confused by the goal we conceded, obviously poor from Moreno but I'm not sure if it was also a bit poor from Allison but then he was probably half asleep at that point as he had had sod all to do.
      Conclusions are that Moreno is still sh*t, I prefer Gomez to Vvd, prefer Shaq to Lallana, Fabinho looking v good and Sadio and Mo are finally starting to click again.
      All in all 3 good points and an improvement to our goal difference

      You want VVD on the bench?
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #377: Oct 28, 2018 08:46:03 am
      I'm not going to debate this, not because it's right... It's hideously wrong! But i can't be bothered to argue with people who say comments like "Shaqiri shouldn't feature against top sides".

      No one has said “Shaqiri shouldn’t feature against Top sides” - you are trying to read something that isn’t there

      Go back and read again what I said

      Shaqiri won’t play in the midfield - that doesn’t mean he won’t feature against tbe top side
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #378: Oct 28, 2018 08:50:16 am
      No one has said “Shaqiri shouldn’t feature against Top sides” - you are trying to read something that isn’t there

      Go back and read again what I said

      Shaqiri won’t play in the midfield - that doesn’t mean he won’t feature against tbe top side

      Yawn
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #379: Oct 28, 2018 08:54:43 am

      Sorry no, bit of a typo, VVD and Gomez.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #380: Oct 28, 2018 08:58:21 am
      Bring on Arsenal they play football but at about half the pace we do its going to be a feast for the eyes.
      Just seen that was Mo's 33rd goal in 35 games at Anfield . Cardiff could have been a banana skin but the lads done great.
      One other thing Stuart Atwell is not a premier league standard Ref he is useless
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #381: Oct 28, 2018 08:58:59 am
      There’s a difference between ‘won’t feature’ and ‘won’t start’.
      As an impact player to change a game would be one thing but to start Shaqiri against the top sides would be a mistake.
      Why do you believe that...?

      As far as I know under Klopp or else where for that matter Shaqiri has never give me the impression that he would struggle against so called "Top Side" and so what if he does not track back at times, and I will stress "At Times", does Mo Salah track back all the time...?

      I would start him against both Red Star and Arsenal...

      I believe what he brings to the team in attack more than compensates to what we lose with him not always tracking back,plus if we are more potent in attack teams, even "top Team" will have to be that little bit more defensive, which mean that they in turn will be less potent in attack.
      « Last Edit: Oct 28, 2018 09:03:39 am by The Real Donavan Ried »
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #382: Oct 28, 2018 09:00:16 am
      Bring on Arsenal they play football but at about half the pace we do its going to be a feast for the eyes.
      Just seen that was Mo's 33rd goal in 35 games at Anfield . Cardiff could have been a banana skin but the lads done great.
      One other thing Stuart Atwell is not a premier league standard Ref he is useless

      Should be a good game, Arsenal have a very tasty attack at the moment but I still have big question marks over their defence. With our strikers starting to click into gear I fancy us to win the match but please no Moreno as LB!
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #383: Oct 28, 2018 09:02:42 am
      I think he can morph into that midfield role pretty easy. He needs someone like Gini and Fab beside him to do the "dirty" job, but that's about it. A guy as skilled as Shaq should touch the ball as much as possible. I think he is our solution for a player like City has in KDB/Silva, Chelsea has in Hazard or Barca has in Messi/Coutinho. No idea what Jürgen thinks, maybe he really only sees Shaq as a striker-midfielder hybrid to bring when he wants to maximize offensive pressure, but I do see more in the little swiss bull: I see a white Maradona in the making.
      Agree with most of this except maybe the comparison to Hazard and Messi on the rest I believe you are spot on
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #384: Oct 28, 2018 09:15:37 am
      but I'm not sure if it was also a bit poor from Allison but then he was probably half asleep at that point as he had had sod all to do.

      I have always though watching Allison that he seem slow to get down to the ball. But not the case for the goal yes today


      It that Gomez over VVD, or Gomez with VVD..??
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #385: Oct 28, 2018 09:46:44 am
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #386: Oct 28, 2018 09:47:04 am
      You can’t go in against Someone like City or Madrid with Shaqiri in the middle of the park - he just isn’t that sort of player to get stuck in and battle against another three in the middle

      Got to say I'm a big fan of Shaqiri but even I agree with this post.  He's also a tad careless with the ball and against the better midfields that loses you the ball and starts an attack. 

      He's going to be very involved in 25+ league games a season but there will be some where he is a luxury too far IMO.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #387: Oct 28, 2018 11:30:57 am
      If any of the front 3 need a rest and we have a match have against a top side, he could still slot in the front 3 or as a #10 though right?
      Sir Suarez
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #388: Oct 28, 2018 11:36:25 am
      Got to say, looking at the link up between Mo and Shaq, they can cause a lot of issues for most teams.

      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #389: Oct 28, 2018 12:23:19 pm
      Got to say, looking at the link up between Mo and Shaq, they can cause a lot of issues for most teams.



      Shaq is always buzzing here and there looking to make the final pass while Mo is always running into space to receive the final pass. Its hand in glove. Keita would be another welcome option. What I like about this match is the lads ran deep into the oppo defence that really unsettled them very much. Like the saying goes, once the final ball into the box, what happened after that is random.
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #390: Oct 28, 2018 01:12:56 pm
      It's simple really.

      Against teams that we know are going to sit deep with massed ranks we play 6 attacking players.
      Basically 4 forwards and 2 full backs, with less cover behind the fullbacks and trying to compress the pitch into the opponents half while also stretching the game.

      Against teams that are going to attack us and play a more open game (the "better" teams if you will) we play 3 forwards and use 2 CM to cover behind the fullbacks with 1 spare in the middle, in what people insist on calling the "holding" or "DM" role.

      It's a simple tweak of our basic 433 system, but we attack the centre space more using the extra attacker, which in turn gives the FB's out wide a bit of extra space to work in.
      When the defending team has 2 banks close together, 1 of the CM will support either the attacking flank or the attacking centre.

      Once again, it's not about the formation, it's about the space we attack, and how we go about it.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #391: Oct 28, 2018 02:04:56 pm
      It's simple really.

      Against teams that we know are going to sit deep with massed ranks we play 6 attacking players.
      Basically 4 forwards and 2 full backs, with less cover behind the fullbacks and trying to compress the pitch into the opponents half while also stretching the game.

      Against teams that are going to attack us and play a more open game (the "better" teams if you will) we play 3 forwards and use 2 CM to cover behind the fullbacks with 1 spare in the middle, in what people insist on calling the "holding" or "DM" role.

      It's a simple tweak of our basic 433 system, but we attack the centre space more using the extra attacker, which in turn gives the FB's out wide a bit of extra space to work in.
      When the defending team has 2 banks close together, 1 of the CM will support either the attacking flank or the attacking centre.

      Once again, it's not about the formation, it's about the space we attack, and how we go about it.
      I get what you are saying, but right now I don't trust Lallana in that CM role. Keita, Milner and Gini are probably the go to for that, but judging by Moreno yesterday, there's a possibility Milner might also need to be Robertson's backup, so with Ox out it leaves us a little short on the centre. There might be times when a choice between Lallana and Shaqiri is necessary. Judging by people's reactions they would go Lallana.. but I'm not sure I would. I understand the tactical point you made though. If Lallana can return to his best I might think differently, in the past he only seems to be at his best for short times before getting injured and it's like a cycle.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #392: Oct 28, 2018 02:31:04 pm
      Back on topic...

      Having watched the match again this morning, I must say, Fabinho and Wijnaldum were yet again consistently exceptional for 90 mins! (surprised they didn't get much votes!) They absolutely bossed the middle, breaking up play, shifting the ball quick, always available for passes, initiating attacks etc etc. Was such a joy to watch our midfield last 2 games. And before you fuckers say it was vs easy opponents, I don't recall us dominating the middle last few seasons (even during Rodgers' era) like how Wijnaldum and Fabinho did vs lesser opponents.

      As for our attack, they only came to prominence when Shaq came on around 65th min, but before that, I didn't think we were very threatening or decisive enough. And Firmino.... I didn't think he played as bad as I initially thought, his off the ball work was superb and outweighed his negatives on the ball.
      German_Panzer
      • Forum Phil Thompson
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #393: Oct 28, 2018 02:40:05 pm
      Really weird game, we dominated the vast majority of that game but didn't quite click until the last few minutes.

      Because they opened up after their goal. We are deadly if our opponent tries to play with us and offers spaces. We have difficulties if they park the bus. That's the main difference to City and therefore they are the title favourites.

      Quote
      I'm still slightly confused by the goal we conceded, obviously poor from Moreno but I'm not sure if it was also a bit poor from Allison but then he was probably half asleep at that point as he had had sod all to do.

      Alisson wasn't guilty. The ball was slightly deflected if I remember it correctly.

      Quote
      Conclusions are that Moreno is still sh*t,

      A bit harsh. Alberto did not get any game time so far, no chance to settle in. Under these circumstances he did alright.

      Quote
      I prefer Gomez to Vvd

      Me too and I can tell u exactly why: Lovren plays a bit too aggressive and creates more danger of fouls and penalties while Gomez defends "gentler", but as efficient as Lovren.

      Quote
      prefer Shaq to Lallana

      Yes. I wanna see Shaq feature for us bigtime, I think he can be a difference maker if we trust him and give him minutes to develop. And if he isn't then we can go to the market, because we need a new Coutinho if we wanna challenge City for real (or maybe Ox could be that man?).

      waltonl4
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #394: Oct 28, 2018 02:42:41 pm
      Moreno got his usual stick but I thought he did quite well considering his lack of game time.  Its going to cause a lot of arguments on here when Jürgen has a fully fit squad to pick from.
      I thought again yesterday we showed real belief and when they scored we found that extra gear that has been missing in so many of our teams over the last few decades its what makes Champions. Seeing Jürgen so happy is a treat in itself
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #395: Oct 28, 2018 02:42:49 pm
      Back on topic...

      Having watched the match again this morning, I must say, Fabinho and Wijnaldum were yet again consistently exceptional for 90 mins! (surprised they didn't get much votes!) They absolutely bossed the middle, breaking up play, shifting the ball quick, always available for passes, initiating attacks etc etc. Was such a joy to watch our midfield last 2 games. And before you fuckers say it was vs easy opponents, I don't recall us dominating the middle last few seasons (even during Rodgers' era) like how Wijnaldum and Fabinho did vs lesser opponents.

      As for our attack, they only came to prominence when Shaq came on around 65th min, but before that, I didn't think we were very threatening or decisive enough. And Firmino.... I didn't think he played as bad as I initially thought, his off the ball work was superb and outweighed his negatives on the ball.

      Cardiff were so passive that at times Fabinho and Wijnaldum had all the time in the world.
      They sat back so deep that both midfielders were able to push right up almost to the edge of their box at times.

      Trying to shoehorn in that they were anything but terrified and extremely deep is a bit disingenuous.

      They could have challenged us more, they could have pressed us more, but they didn't, because Colin W**ker is somewhat of a pragmatist who went for damage limitation.
      That's the reality of it.
      We hardly had to deal with any runners through the centre, no press, little or no aggression.
      With the players they have, Cardiff could have done a lot more, but the way they set up and played was "we know we're going to lose, but we'll try not to concede too many".

      Fabinho and Wijnaldum will both face stern tests this season, as will our other midfielders.
      This wasn't one of them though.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #396: Oct 28, 2018 02:57:52 pm
      Cardiff were so passive that at times Fabinho and Wijnaldum had all the time in the world.
      They sat back so deep that both midfielders were able to push right up almost to the edge of their box at times.

      Trying to shoehorn in that they were anything but terrified and extremely deep is a bit disingenuous.

      They could have challenged us more, they could have pressed us more, but they didn't, because Colin W**ker is somewhat of a pragmatist who went for damage limitation.
      That's the reality of it.
      We hardly had to deal with any runners through the centre, no press, little or no aggression.
      With the players they have, Cardiff could have done a lot more, but the way they set up and played was "we know we're going to lose, but we'll try not to concede too many".

      Fabinho and Wijnaldum will both face stern tests this season, as will our other midfielders.
      This wasn't one of them though.

      It was more the manner of how our midfielders had control of the match, how they used the ball too, something I haven't seen for a while.

      There seems to be a significant difference in our approach play with this setup and having more technical players in the middle , and it's something I really do like.
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #397: Oct 28, 2018 03:01:57 pm
      It was more the manner of how our midfielders had control of the match, how they used the ball too, something I haven't seen for a while.

      There seems to be a significant difference in our approach play with this setup and having more technical players in the middle , and it's something I really do like.

      The difference here is how we see it.
      You see it as our midfielders controlling the middle.
      I see it as Cardiff ceding the middle and not pressuring our players to any extent.
      Given that amount of time and space, I'd expect any of our midfielders to dominate.
      Same as Red Star.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #398: Oct 28, 2018 03:14:38 pm
      The difference here is how we see it.
      You see it as our midfielders controlling the middle.
      I see it as Cardiff ceding the middle and not pressuring our players to any extent.
      Given that amount of time and space, I'd expect any of our midfielders to dominate.
      Same as Red Star.

      I agree it wasn't a difficult battle in the middle, and Cardiff sitting off allowed our midfielders to control the middle, but the manner in how Wijnaldum and Fabinho did it was something I haven't seen in years.

      I felt our passing was more fluid than ever, our source of creativity wasn't mainly our full backs, we were initiating attacks a lot via our midfielders and looking between the lines etc.
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #399: Oct 28, 2018 03:22:52 pm
      I agree it wasn't a difficult battle in the middle, and Cardiff sitting off allowed our midfielders to control the middle, but the manner in how Wijnaldum and Fabinho did it was something I haven't seen in years.

      I felt our passing was more fluid than ever, our source of creativity wasn't mainly our full backs, we were initiating attacks a lot via our midfielders and looking between the lines etc.

      There was no battle mate, that's the whole point I'm making.

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