Sorry for the late reply, I was geniunely looking back and trying to understand it from your POV.
Shaqiri has been playing more the Coutinho role but on the right, where as Firmino more deeper than usual, more a 10 vs Red Star & Cardiff when looking back at the 2 games, and I still believe we have setup using a double pivot in both games with them acting as 2 hub's instead of 1.
And then you have Klopp say (1:30s in) after the Red Star match that the system would not have worked if our wide players didn't fall back and help..
...which is totally different to how it was when we played 433 earlier in the season where our side midfielders would be the main protectors/cover for our full backs when they push up to become the main creative source (as a few mentioned). And even more noticable in the double pivot setup, you would find that we play through the middle a lot more with our full backs not so much the creative source.
As for the formation part, I feel we abide by the setup and play a 433 or 4231 in name, but like any team in possession, pressing or ascending, we will see our players a bit mixed up in the process, but inevitably, they will return back to the area/position they are designated for that familiarity and structure so we are able to restart the process of rebuilding the play with players in their prefered position or get back in shape to defend.
So yeah, I do see a differentiation in our 433 over 4231 and how our players play, and despite having that flexibility/freedom that Klopp allows, the players will always play mostly in their position/area they are assigned to for that stability, and heat maps that have been posted throughout will show that.
Anyway, that is how I see it, whether I am wrong or not, I don't know, sorry for not fully understanding how you see it, and maybe the way you understand it is right, but I just can't grasp it
A couple of points mate.
Players are not assigned to a position in the sense that you mean.
Take a look back at Klopp's appearance on SSN where he spoke about positions; a player who finds himself in a particular position assumes the responsibilities of that position. This is why I say we don't play a double pivot, and that we always play a variation of 433.
You may have noticed that I don't really go a lot for positions and formations these days, and talk more about tactics and space.
The reason for this is what someone told me a couple of years ago, which to paraphrase is "amateurs talk about formations, pro's talk about space".
I've been trying to learn this stuff to help me understand the game better, and as I've read more, I've moved away from looking at where players are (formation), and more towards what they can exploit in the sense of space.
If you have a look at the article I posted in the tactics thread, you'll see what I mean.
Even if you don't come to the same conclusions as me, it's a very useful piece to help understand the game in a coaching context, and how managers like Klopp view the game.
Edit; I went and got it, to post it here.
It's a good starting point and if you google, you can find plenty more of the same. Perceptions vary, but the basics stay the same.https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/11/26/juego-de-posicion-a-short-explanation/
So, under Klopp we use similar "structured space" with the exception that when a player finds themselves in a particular space, they assume the responsibilities for the role that space dictates.
I think that this is why Klopp speaks so often of a player who is tactically and technically good. It's not always about football technical, but about tactics technical, if that makes sense.