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      Costly Draws - lesson from 2009

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      thanks2shanks
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Feb 06, 2019 05:18:06 pm
      Don't attach too much importance to us having lost only one PL match this season, compared to City's four defeats. I mean, if we'd beaten either Leicester or West Ham and lost to the other, we'd have taken 3 points rather than 2 from that pair of fixtures.

      I'm reminded of ten years ago, when we finished 2nd to Man United, despite beating them twice (2-1 at home, 4-1 away). They lost four times in the PL compared to our two. But they won three matches more than us (28 to 25), and drew five matches fewer (6 to our 11).

      We came up short by four points (86 to 90). If just two of our 11 draws had been wins, we'd have pipped them on goal difference.

      The 11 draws were against Villa (home 0-0), Stoke (home and away, both 0-0), Fulham (home 0-0), West Ham (home 0-0), Hull City (home 2-2), Arsenal (away 1-1 and home 4-4), Everton (home 1-1), Wigan (away 1-1) and Man City (home 1-1).

      Spurs haven't drawn a single match in the PL this season, which must be some kind of record (19 wins, 6 defeats).

      This season we've had 5 draws and 1 defeat. City have 2 draws and 4 defeats.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #1: Feb 06, 2019 06:34:35 pm
      So what’s the actual point here? 5 draws and 1 defeat at this stage of the season is way way more than what anyone would have expected before the season starts.

      We are going to stop points along the way but we aren’t ever playing for draws, that isn’t our style. We always play for the 3 points and will occasionally come up short, so what exactly are you proposing changes?
      Brian78
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #2: Feb 06, 2019 08:02:34 pm
      Were always going to drop points. Its the manner in which they are being dropped.

      Handed a lead with city losing at Newcastle!! We then draw to 2 mid table teams with 2 very very preventable goals

      Injuries not helping: We released 4 players was it then told ourselves our squad was top notch and we only released players who played 3 hours between them.. 2 injuries later.....

      Refusal to make a signing in the window to kick on from the great position we were in

      Just not playing wel....this happens

      Combo of all the above has seen a nice lead blown. But with all that said we could remain 3 points or 2 ahead tonight at worst 2nd on hoal difference with a game in hand. So effectively from Saturday to the last day we just have to match or better whatever city or spurs do in the same period.....can that be done...100%. Will it be done???
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #3: May 05, 2019 11:59:27 pm
      Compared to 2009, we have after 37 games:

      5 more wins, 4 less draws, 1 less loss, 13  more goals, 11 more points, and the league goes to the final day.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #4: May 06, 2019 12:54:38 am
      If just two of our 11 draws had been wins, we'd have pipped them on goal difference.


      Aunt.

      Balls.

      Uncle.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #5: May 06, 2019 12:55:59 am
      Lots of is and buts. we are where we are, just need City to drop one more bunch of points, that's not too much to ask for now is it?
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #6: May 06, 2019 01:33:15 am
      does it actually make people feel smart to point out such obvious things? "if we got a win instead of a draw we would have 2 more points" well done mate
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #7: May 06, 2019 01:53:31 am
      If City hadn't blown a bunch of winnable (even drawable) games they'd have the title won already.

      If Mahrez hadn't sent his penalty into the Mersey (I've been to Liverpool and do know the distance, I still very much mean this literally) then they'd likely have it won already.

      We are where we are because football is f**king mad. We are now in rare air as one of the best teams in PL history and may not win it.

      Football. Is. F***ing. Mad.

      I used to go back and look at those results that make you go "fuuuuuuuucccckkkk" but you'll send yourself nuts doing it. The overall context of this season is we're an amazing team just unlucky enough to be f**king amazing at the same time as another team. But maybe we got here because we stepped up to the plate to try and match this City team where all other squads in the Premier League didn't have the bottle to have a crack.

      Have I mentioned yet... football is f**king mad.

      After the 38 games are done and dusted for all teams, we'll evaluate. Until then, this is bollocks. After that, any notion of us being bottlers because of a couple draws will also be bollocks.

      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #8: May 06, 2019 01:54:44 am
      does it actually make people feel smart to point out such obvious things? "if we got a win instead of a draw we would have 2 more points" well done mate

      Very Michael Owen isn't it.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #9: May 06, 2019 02:28:20 am

      Hahhaha yep he is Captain Obvious isn't he?
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #10: May 06, 2019 08:28:44 am
      To be frank, fair play to City not dropping any points since Jan.

      I know a couple of people on here thought they would drop points since their last defeat at Newcastle.
      heimdall
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #11: May 06, 2019 08:56:47 am
      None of ours draws were disasters, they were all against teams who played well while we had slightly off days, the only one that bugs me is the draw to Man Utd when they lost half their team and had Rashford limping around the pitch. We should have gone into full battle mode in that game and attacked relentlessly but for whatever reason we became very passive as if we had already decided to play tight that game and couldn't manage to get out of that mindset. This wasn't helped by having big defensive issues at that time and if I recall our midfield was also set up very negative in that game, which changed afterwards for the remaining games.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #12: May 06, 2019 10:59:24 am
      To be frank, fair play to City not dropping any points since Jan.

      I know a couple of people on here thought they would drop points since their last defeat at Newcastle.

      I thought they would. No one is perfect and they cannot be winning till eternity. Fair play they haven’t, but one day they will. God knows when. Maybe they’ll only drop their first point in 2020/21 season?
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #13: May 06, 2019 12:04:20 pm
      We are where we are because of every game played this year, as we where back in 2009.

      If, we went all out for the win we could of very easily got caught out at the back and instead of having seven draws had seven defeats in their place and be sitting five points behind City. But we're not, we're sitting top of the f**king table with just one game to go.

      We can all look back at certain games and say that's where we lost the League. To this day Steven Gerrard is reminded his slip against Chelsea lost us the League. But a League campaign is 38 games long. Defeats to Southampton and Hull or dropped points to Newcastle, Swansea and Villa didn't exactly help. Or Kolo Toure's suicide pass against West Brom in the one all draw at the Hawthorns. 38 games make up a League season and we finish where we finish because of all 38.

      Complaining about the draw with West Ham is laughable as well. Should we be beating West Ham away from home on paper? Yeah we probably should be. But football isn't played on paper. We got out of that game with a blatantly offside goal. If City draw tonight with Leicester and we both win our final game of the season then we will the League by one point. Just how vital will that draw against West Ham be then? A game we didn't deserve a point from but we got one. The last minute equaliser against Chelsea to earn a draw, the missed pen by Mahrez in the last few minutes against City, the clearance off the line by Trent against Everton at Goodison. Every game and every result has got us to this position. Not one game has cost us the League, not one game has won the League. It's all 38 that dictate and determine where we'll finish.

      And f**k me, I'm praying we finish top.
      +10
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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #14: May 06, 2019 07:40:41 pm
      It was the draws after the defeat to City that cost us
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #15: May 06, 2019 07:42:59 pm
      It was the draws after the defeat to City that cost us

      You could just as easily say it was the H2H against Man City that cost us.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #16: May 06, 2019 10:08:34 pm
      ;D m8 we've drawn 7 and lost 1 game all season with 94 points. If we're gonna sit here and nitpick about draws fans have lost the plot.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #17: May 06, 2019 10:42:51 pm
      ;D m8 we've drawn 7 and lost 1 game all season with 94 points. If we're gonna sit here and nitpick about draws fans have lost the plot.

      I bet you the letting Clyne go and playing Hendo at RB will definitely come up again. It's going to do my head in.
      scotscouse
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #18: May 06, 2019 10:45:01 pm
      If your first your first,if your second your nothing ,here,s hoping  cite are nothing after Sunday BELIEVE
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #19: May 06, 2019 11:12:42 pm
      You could just as easily say it was the H2H against Man City that cost us.

      Essentially it was. Anything other than a win for City in that game, then as things currently stand, we’d have been in pole position. We lost 1 game until now and that one game is to the team above us. I have no doubts that’s where it was lost.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #20: May 06, 2019 11:27:43 pm
      There is one more glimmer of hope on Saturday but it is gut wrenching to think that it was there, we had it, in our hands for us to lose....and lost it.
      Livershrew
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #21: May 07, 2019 12:33:23 am
      nothing cost us. weve been incredible. which makes this all the more painful.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #22: May 07, 2019 01:32:11 am
      You could just as easily say it was the H2H against Man City that cost us.

      Yep Sadios ball doesn't cross the line, Mo doesn't tap it in, keeper gets a hand to it, goes through Mo's legs and then Sane's shot goes in off both posts.

      That's when I thought the Footballing God is against us!
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #23: May 07, 2019 05:18:26 am
      I think theres a debate to be had about our form when we were 7 clear  and if we really enjoyed being out in front like City do.

      There was an edginess about the whole place and our performances around that time.

      Since then we have been remarkable but it is hard to win a league if you dont like being ahead.

      It would have been very interesting to see if City drew last night, if we could cope being ahead in the table and knowing a win would win us the league. That's a different type of pressure to chasing.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #24: May 07, 2019 08:05:46 am
      I think theres a debate to be had about our form when we were 7 clear  and if we really enjoyed being out in front like City do.

      There was an edginess about the whole place and our performances around that time.

      Since then we have been remarkable but it is hard to win a league if you dont like being ahead.

      It would have been very interesting to see if City drew last night, if we could cope being ahead in the table and knowing a win would win us the league. That's a different type of pressure to chasing.

      Important to remember that we were 7 clear just prior to playing City and obviously that then dropped to 4 points very quickly with the loss at the Etihad. But you’re right that we didn’t seem so comfortable being ahead. Our form since we were back to chasing has been incredible with 8 wins on the bounce. The fact we have taken it to the last game of the season and responded so well to the pressure should stand the lads in good stead next season should they be involved in another title race.

      As for the comparison to 08-09 it doesn’t quite stand up. We’re on the brink of a 97 point season, a points tally that would have won 118 of the last 119 league seasons. Unfortunately we’re up against the best domestic side of the Premier League era and if they win on Sunday that will be 198 points for two seasons work. Ridiculous.

      So proud of the team but obviously it’s completely deflating to potentially finish the season potless again.
      brezipool
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #25: May 07, 2019 12:41:12 pm
      None of ours draws were disasters, they were all against teams who played well while we had slightly off days, the only one that bugs me is the draw to Man Utd when they lost half their team and had Rashford limping around the pitch. We should have gone into full battle mode in that game and attacked relentlessly but for whatever reason we became very passive as if we had already decided to play tight that game and couldn't manage to get out of that mindset. This wasn't helped by having big defensive issues at that time and if I recall our midfield was also set up very negative in that game, which changed afterwards for the remaining games.

      I agree with this. the Manu game was one of the most frustrating games ever, they were there for the taking, all the stop starts ruined that game.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #26: May 07, 2019 02:07:47 pm
      Quote from CT_LFC
      There is one more glimmer of hope on Saturday but it is gut wrenching to think that it was there, we had it, in our hands for us to lose....and lost it.

      The league will be won by either side this weekend, not lost. Last year, City needed 82 points to win the league. This year, they will need 98.

      City have had their fate in their own hands since early March and have taken advantage of it to date, while we've been sitting there waiting and waiting and waiting for a break. It hasn't come yet, even though we've done everything asked of us in every game since. Whether we win this fight or not, fans should be proud of this team and club this season. Everyone back in August, said we had no chance, let alone take it to the wire.

      Unlike the final game in 2009, we can still win the league on the final day this year. And I would fancy Brighton's chances more than I did West Ham's when it was their chance to help win the title for us 5 years ago. They have already beaten the mancs and made life very difficult for us and the rest of the top 6, in their own ground this season. Lewis Dunk can seal his own place in Anfield folklore if he can do the job at the weekend, without playing a game for us.

      We may not bring home the trophy this year, but we've won a lot more admiration and respect for our efforts from even the harshest anti-Liverpool critics and pundits. They certainly will be slower to write us off next season.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #27: May 16, 2019 11:58:39 pm
      Quote from Scottbot
      Important to remember that we were 7 clear just prior to playing City and obviously that then dropped to 4 points very quickly with the loss at the Etihad. But you’re right that we didn’t seem so comfortable being ahead. Our form since we were back to chasing has been incredible with 8 wins on the bounce. The fact we have taken it to the last game of the season and responded so well to the pressure should stand the lads in good stead next season should they be involved in another title race.

      As for the comparison to 08-09 it doesn’t quite stand up. We’re on the brink of a 97 point season, a points tally that would have won 118 of the last 119 league seasons. Unfortunately we’re up against the best domestic side of the Premier League era and if they win on Sunday that will be 198 points for two seasons work. Ridiculous.

      The 7 points lasted one game, not even a week. We lost 1 game in the time we led the league, while City lost 4 games in the same period, i.e. 0/12 points. So who coped better with the challenge?

      I don't know when we lost the league, it's difficult to say a team with 97 points has lost anything. We did everything we could to win it, while leading and chasing, unfortunately nobody else had the will to help us out. We needed just one break in the last two months. They didn't even have to win their games, just one draw was enough. Some of the bastrds were knocking in 3s and 4s either side of playing City, yet just downed tools as soon as they saw a blue shirt marked "Etihad" near them. They know who they are, they're a disgrace to themselves and the league in general.

      Rant over.
      GERNS
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #28: May 17, 2019 12:08:20 pm
      So with the ffp scandal currently going on with City and UEFA, the FA also police this. City may be banned from CL for a season, but what of the Prem. If they were deducted points for their cheating the system, and we were handed the title retrospectively, would that detract from the fact we had won it fairly, do you think we would deserve it, or do you think it would be a tainted trophy ?
      Your opinions please !
      Personally I’d accept it as No. 19, but wouldn’t be doing cartwheels over it, and probably wouldn’t celebrate it at all.
      The Prem has now clearly become tainted by the financial dopeing of city.
      Even with all that wealth available, they just couldn’t wait to build from it, they had to get it all NOW, and bring dishonour to the greatest show on earth.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #29: May 17, 2019 12:21:56 pm
      The 7 points lasted one game, not even a week. We lost 1 game in the time we led the league, while City lost 4 games in the same period, i.e. 0/12 points. So who coped better with the challenge?

      I don't know when we lost the league, it's difficult to say a team with 97 points has lost anything. We did everything we could to win it, while leading and chasing, unfortunately nobody else had the will to help us out. We needed just one break in the last two months. They didn't even have to win their games, just one draw was enough. Some of the bastrds were knocking in 3s and 4s either side of playing City, yet just downed tools as soon as they saw a blue shirt marked "Etihad" near them. They know who they are, they're a disgrace to themselves and the league in general.

      Rant over.

      Agree, it was embarrassing how some teams played against them. With us, you could see every team was up for it and ready to fight, but against that lot, nothing.
      PGlynn91
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #30: May 17, 2019 12:30:15 pm
      97 points.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #31: May 17, 2019 03:18:14 pm
      I was interested in Klopps comment in yesterday's Echo about past Liverpool teams being strong but then hurting themselves by buying players from all over (presumably he means who were not good enough or who disrupted the squad).

      Expected only very targeted buys this summer. I'll sleep the morning after we beat Spurs and then wake me for the first preseason match to see what has changed.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Costly Draws - lesson from 2009
      Reply #32: May 17, 2019 09:15:28 pm
      It's all very well talking about draws that could've been wins, but there were a lot of wins that could've been draws or defeats.

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