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      The title race: Call it

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      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #414: Mar 04, 2019 06:48:06 pm
      Unless you have all the same information that Klopp does, you can't possibly say anything is a mistake.
      It's just a guess.

      This is why I rarely post on team selection; it's just guesswork.

      For all you know, Shaqiri is still having issues with his abdominal injury, and Keita is not fully recovered from the virus he had.
      Like when people were saying that VVD had lost form, when the reality was, he'd lost a load of weight because of illness.

      Are you starting to see yet, why Klopp having all the information that you don't have makes a difference?

      That is fair enough what you have said did cross my mind but he hasn't confirmed any of that since the game.

      I guess if Keita and Shaqiri were still unfit I would have expected him to come out and say so rather than talk about the wind or get all defensive when reporters were questioning his lack of attacking changes.
      Swab
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #415: Mar 04, 2019 06:51:59 pm
      That is fair enough what you have said did cross my mind but he hasn't confirmed any of that since the game.

      I guess if Keita and Shaqiri were still unfit I would have expected him to come out and say so rather than talk about the wind or get all defensive when reporters were questioning his lack of attacking changes.

      Why would he give opposition managers information?
      The more options he appears to have, the more planning the opposition have to do.

      It was different with Firmino.
      Everyone saw him roll his ankle in the man u match, so he loses nothing by confirming the injury.

      It could be that Shaqiri and Keita are still playing catchup after being injured or unwell, and have only been at 80% in training.
      All these things are measured, and much more besides.

      I'll always go with the bloke who has all the information.
      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #416: Mar 04, 2019 06:54:02 pm
      Why would he give opposition managers information?
      The more options he appears to have, the more planning the opposition have to do.

      It was different with Firmino.
      Everyone saw him roll his ankle in the man u match, so he loses nothing by confirming the injury.

      It could be that Shaqiri and Keita are still playing catchup after being injured or unwell, and have only been at 80% in training.
      All these things are measured, and much more besides.

      I'll always go with the bloke who has all the information.

      But he came out and said why Keita didn't come on after the United game? Where's the consistency?

      I understand your logic but at the same time, it could be that both were fully fit and Klopp just didn't want to risk losing, as neither me or you have all the information all we can do is speculate and make our own assumptions.
      bmck
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #417: Mar 04, 2019 06:59:14 pm
      I guess if Keita and Shaqiri were still unfit I would have expected him to come out and say so rather than talk about the wind or get all defensive when reporters were questioning his lack of attacking changes.

      If Keita [and Shaq] is on the bench, as he has been for several games now, would expect he's fit enough to play a part.
      Yes Jürgen sees them every day, so maybe their form is not what he'd like!? Dunno. But certainly thought Keita was coming into some better form before been left out a few games back.

      Or, maybe Jürgen is simply getting a little bit more cautious recently?! Who knows.

      With the run we've been on, and Citeh's form, maybe his hand might be forced - he might have to make more attacking minded choices, and make more attacking minded substitutions in the coming matches, to get momentum going again.
      Swab
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #418: Mar 04, 2019 07:02:59 pm
      But he came out and said why Keita didn't come on after the United game? Where's the consistency?

      I understand your logic but at the same time, it could be that both were fully fit and Klopp just didn't want to risk losing, as neither me or you have all the information all we can do is speculate and make our own assumptions.

      Which is the point I've been making all along, so saying "Klopp made a mistake" is nothing more than a guess.

      If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that the fella with all the information is less likely to make a mistake than the fella with none.
      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #419: Mar 04, 2019 07:08:33 pm
      Which is the point I've been making all along, so saying "Klopp made a mistake" is nothing more than a guess.

      If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that the fella with all the information is less likely to make a mistake than the fella with none.

      Mate, I am not god or the oracle, anything I ever say is obviously my own option, unlike Rafa when I express my opinions they are not always facts and I do not ask them to be treated as such. Next time I will say Klopp made a mistake IMO if that helps.

      If Keita [and Shaq] is on the bench, as he has been for several games now, would expect he's fit enough to play a part.
      Yes Jürgen sees them every day, so maybe their form is not what he'd like!? Dunno. But certainly thought Keita was coming into some better form before been left out a few games back.

      Or, maybe Jürgen is simply getting a little bit more cautious recently?! Who knows.

      With the run we've been on, and Citeh's form, maybe his hand might be forced - he might have to make more attacking minded choices, and make more attacking minded substitutions in the coming matches, to get momentum going again.


      I forgot where I read it but I seem to recall a manager noting a run of games like say 10 or so and categorising them as must wins or cannot lose etc. then from this working out how many points would be needed to win the league or get to a desired position in the table.

      I am starting to think Klopp has adopted this mentality and saw those two games as ones we couldn't lose but didn't necessarily have to win, but it's all speculation until Klopp says otherwise as my good friend Swab has pointed out.
      bmck
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #420: Mar 04, 2019 07:21:35 pm
      I am starting to think Klopp has adopted this mentality and saw those two games as ones we couldn't lose but didn't necessarily have to win

      If that was the case, can't be the case anymore. Surely need to go out to win every game now.
      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #421: Mar 04, 2019 07:25:19 pm
      If that was the case, can't be the case anymore. Surely need to go out to win every game now.


      I'm guessing all games baring Spurs and maybe Chelsea would be considered cant loses rather must wins.

      City will drop points so the above could still end up with us winning it.

      Like I said that's just some idea I've thought up in my head after the game, just a theory, no facts behind it.
      bmck
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #422: Mar 04, 2019 07:25:50 pm
      It's tough for Jürgen. Salah's form is nowhere near what we've seen it at his best, and Firmino has been patchy. Mane is the pick of the 3 imho, and he's not even been at his best either - though was great vs Watford.
      Should he drop Salah? Don't think he can, think he just has to hope his form/touch returns - 9 games to go, need your best players.  So you play a guy not in form, in the hope that form comes back - so you then need to play a more attacking midfield to complement that - which, OK should give you more going forward, but you are more open then to teams breaking on you and conceding, and even loosing games. And at least Jürgen has avoided defeats.
      bmck
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #423: Mar 04, 2019 07:35:01 pm
      I'm guessing all games baring Spurs and maybe Chelsea would be considered cant loses rather must wins.


      Whatever about the maths, and what games we might consider we need to win, and maybe could afford to draw - would be more hoping we go out with an approach and a 'mentality' to WIN every game.  Like the Batman movie where he climbs out of the hole - no rope!
      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #424: Mar 04, 2019 07:36:37 pm
      Whatever about the maths, and what games we might consider we need to win, and maybe could afford to draw - would be more hoping we go out with an approach and a 'mentality' to WIN every game.  Like the Batman movie where he climbs out of the hole - no rope!


      Sorry I might not have explained myself well enough I'm not saying I think Klopp goes into a game looking for a draw but rather when it comes towards the end of the game there may be certain games where his more inclined to throw the kitchen sink at the opposition than others 
      srslfc
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #425: Mar 04, 2019 07:39:36 pm
      Sorry I might not have explained myself well enough I'm not saying I think Klopp goes into a game looking for a draw but rather when it comes towards the end of the game there may be certain games where his more inclined to throw the kitchen sink at the opposition than others 

      Isn't that the same for most managers and teams though?

      RC9
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #426: Mar 04, 2019 07:42:27 pm
      Isn't that the same for most managers and teams though?



      I think Klopp last season would have acted different last but this season we seem to be more pragmatic. 

      I guess most teams must think like this in my head I'm thinking of a point system being struck up where certain games are must wins or not.

      It's been a long day, I'm probably just rambling now.
      bmck
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #427: Mar 04, 2019 07:46:13 pm
      Sorry I might not have explained myself well enough I'm not saying I think Klopp goes into a game looking for a draw but rather when it comes towards the end of the game there may be certain games where his more inclined to throw the kitchen sink at the opposition than others 

      Under normal circumstances, I get it that in some games, not even against a Spuds or Chavs, maybe a mid table side - that depending on the lay of the land, and how that game is going, maybe we're struggling, and a draw would be a good result on the day.

      Just don't think that cuts it anymore. Maybe am overreacting a bit, and there's 9 games to go, so should chill. But we need to turn things around pretty quick, and may have to take more risks.
      4 draws in 6 games. Would prefer to loose the next one and at least go out having had a real attacking go, than come out with another draw.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #428: Mar 04, 2019 07:48:28 pm
      Under normal circumstances, I get it that in some games, not even against a Spuds or Chavs, maybe a mid table side - that depending on the lay of the land, and how that game is going, maybe we're struggling, and a draw would be a good result on the day.

      Just don't think that cuts it anymore. Maybe am overreacting a bit, and there's 9 games to go, so should chill. But we need to turn things around pretty quick, and may have to take more risks.
      4 draws in 6 games. Would prefer to loose the next one and at least go out having had a real attacking go, than come out with another draw.

      Agreed - we’ve bagged the amazing goals against milestone - let’s just go all F***ing out now
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #429: Mar 04, 2019 07:48:58 pm
      That is fair enough what you have said did cross my mind but he hasn't confirmed any of that since the game.

      I guess if Keita and Shaqiri were still unfit I would have expected him to come out and say so rather than talk about the wind or get all defensive when reporters were questioning his lack of attacking changes.
      "IF" unfit why are they on the bench..?

      And regardless of what info Klopp has you can see when he makes a mistake i.e subbing  Mane, who can make something out of nothing and is always capable of scoring unlike Lallana
      chats
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #430: Mar 04, 2019 07:52:03 pm
      25 more points still wins us the title IMO.

      Negative ones amongst us will say no chance considering how we're playing but things can change very quickly in football.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #431: Mar 04, 2019 08:03:23 pm
      While I maintain that the decisions made by Klopp cost us

      Hey, RC9! Any sensible intelligent person can see it wasn't you suggesting you know more, but merely an opinion that suggests you feel there were other options Klopp could have chose that maybe could have won the game. It's no different to people questioning Klopp's selection or tactics when we lose or draw!!

      Also, for future posters out there, don't feel the need to go and spy at Melwood everyday and steal medical records so you can post an opinion on the forums, you are more than welcome to voice them so we can all discuss/debate football stuff!!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #432: Mar 04, 2019 08:48:54 pm
      Need more pyro’s

      Where’s Huyton Red... you like reading post of such positive take not sh*t supporters.. 9 games to go..being on top always has a negative pressure, maintaining it is very hard, no PL team has won back to back titles in the PL era & I don’t think City have won a title being on top throughout the season..

      Busy working :laugh:

      Not been trying to shout my mouth off too much. What I see at the moment is a team running out of steam, time to start digging in and scrapping for everything. Still fancy Utd to turn City over at Old Trafford.

      Only a point in it, time for for eveyone to develop a spine, embrace their inner Oddball and knock it off with the negative waves!!

      sore monad
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #433: Mar 04, 2019 08:59:05 pm
      Hey, RC9! Any sensible intelligent person can see it wasn't you suggesting you know more, but merely an opinion that suggests you feel there were other options Klopp could have chose that maybe could have won the game. It's no different to people questioning Klopp's selection or tactics when we lose or draw!!

      Also, for future posters out there, don't feel the need to go and spy at Melwood everyday and steal medical records so you can post an opinion on the forums, you are more than welcome to voice them so we can all discuss/debate football stuff!!

      Yeah exactly. We might as well shut down the forum now if we can't give an opinion about team selection or tactics.

      Anyway, you don't have to look at just the Everton game to see that we have been a lot more conservative in our play this season. Overall it has worked for us - we have more points than before, so there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. In past seasons it has felt like we needed to play at 100 mile an hour to win games, this season we have found out we can do it with a bit more patience. Against a lot of teams in a lot of situations it is definitely more effective

      At the same time, we are maybe still looking for the "perfect" balance. There have been a few games where I've been expecting us to let rip with the gegenpress and we have held off on it, and it's been a bit disappointing. The last City game springs to mind. We didn't play badly in that game, but I was surprised we didn't go all out with the high press, cos we know Jürgen has had great results against Pep that way. City's pass it out from the back style makes them vulnerable to it. And they were under a lot of pressure going into that game as well, 7 points behind. So, while we didn't play badly, I personally thought we were a bit too conservative. Same against Everton. Doesn't mean we've bottled it. Just means we aren't always getting the balance right. In my opinion. (It's also got to be true that it isn't easy to just switch these things on and off.)

      Anyway, yeah, I thought we should have risked more attacking subs in the 2nd half against Everton. With 3 points for a win I think it's worth the gamble, especially when you need the win to keep your fate in your own hands. Easy for me to say of course ( and, yeah I know I don't have all the info and knowledge that Jürgen does.)
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #434: Mar 04, 2019 09:00:09 pm
      Let’s take the breaks off now and just F***ing go for it - go for broke.

      We have VVD and Alisson - they’ll stop almost everything, let’s just F***ing go for the throat every time
      Brian78
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #435: Mar 04, 2019 09:00:42 pm
      For a bit of fun... (I know it never works out like this)

      Our fixtures
      Burnley (H) - should be easy
      Fulham (A) - should be easy
      Tottenham (H) - difficult
      Southampton (A) - should be easy
      Chelsea (H) - difficult
      Cardiff (A) - should be easy
      Huddersfield (H) - should be easy
      Newcastle (A) - can be tricky
      Wolves (H) - should be easy

      Their fixtures
      Watford (H) - should be easy
      Fulham (A) - should be easy
      Cardiff (H) - should be easy
      Crystal Palace (A) - can be tricky
      Tottenham (H) - difficult
      Man United (A) - difficult

      Burnley (A) - should be easy
      Leicester (H) - should be easy
      Brighton (A) - should be easy

      You may disagree but I think the ones highlighted will be the ones we see points dropping from either side.

      Our big hope is they progress in Europe and FA cup ideally draw a major player in ladt 8 of champ lge...then April potentially looks like this for City

      April 6 FA cup semi v ??? hopefully utd
      April 9/10 champ lge v ?? hopefully Atletico or Juve
      April 14 v Palace away
      April 16/17 2nd leg champ lge
      April 20 v spurs home
      April 24 v Utd away
      April 28 v Burnley away
      Aoril 30 or May 1 champ lge semi
      May 4th v Leicester home
      May 7/8 champ lge semi 2nd leg
      Nay 12 v Brightin away

      And the keague tie v Cardiff to be squeezed in somewhere to.....tough schedule. Points will be dropped...we just need to make sure we dont drop any..

      We could go back top on ST Patricks day
      Swab
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      Re: Re: We are top of the league!
      Reply #436: Mar 04, 2019 09:23:29 pm
      Hey, RC9! Any sensible intelligent person can see it wasn't you suggesting you know more, but merely an opinion that suggests you feel there were other options Klopp could have chose that maybe could have won the game. It's no different to people questioning Klopp's selection or tactics when we lose or draw!!

      Also, for future posters out there, don't feel the need to go and spy at Melwood everyday and steal medical records so you can post an opinion on the forums, you are more than welcome to voice them so we can all discuss/debate football stuff!!

       :laugh:
      Saying "the manager got it wrong and cost us the game" is not an opinion, it is a definitive statement.
      A sensible, intelligent person would know the difference, so I guess by your own words, that pretty much rules you out.

      A sensible intelligent person would also say "I wonder why he made that decision", rather than "he made the wrong decision" when the person does not have all the facts at their disposal.

      A sensible intelligent person would pay attention to injuries and illness, such as the weight VVD lost during his illness, and note that as a contributory factor, instead of saying "he's lost his form" or any of the other nonsense that was posted.

      But carry on trying to score points by playing to the gallery.
      Phil Neville loves that.

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