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      Henderson, Keita and our Tactics

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      Robby The Z
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      Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Apr 15, 2019 12:29:39 am
      Interested in thoughts on here between matches, as to the respective roles of Naby Keita and Jordan Henderson of late.

      We've seen Naby finally break through and make a more significant contribution over the past few matches. We've also seen a lot written and heard a lot said about Henderson playing in a more advanced role in midfield (although I personally don't think this just started a few matches ago), to very good effect.

      I'm wondering what the relationship is between these two things to:

      1) the system(s) we are playing.

      2) one another.

      Now, our system is so fluid with roles and positioning it ends up being quite true that every player/position/role has an acute relationship with every other, but I'm thinking that maybe these two and their connection is making a major impact at a crucial stage of the season. Wondering what you all think.

      I am hopeful of and thankful for your constructive contribution to the discussion.


      « Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019 09:55:19 am by JD »
      vulcan_red
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactic
      Reply #1: Apr 15, 2019 12:40:46 am
      I think today Klopp expected Chelsea to sit deep  (same against Porto) and hold us out, frustrate us and then go for the win late.
      When we went two up and the game descended into madness, not long after he brought on Gini for Keita to shore it up. I think he probably picked Keita and Hendo as more likely to get forward and create, which puts a lot on Fabinho's shoulders but he is obviously up to it. As for an overall shift in system, I don't know. I know if a team is going to put us under pressure defensively I'd prefer Gini out there.
      Billy1
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactic
      Reply #2: Apr 15, 2019 09:29:11 am
      I would say that confidence in themselves and confidence in the squad as a whole is the main difference to the way Jordan and Naby are playing.
      brezipool
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactic
      Reply #3: Apr 15, 2019 09:43:00 am
      Easy Answer Fab is now the trusted holding MF.

      So it has given klopp the freedom to let the others play further forward.

      And as noted above, the players are more confident.
      alex1995
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactic
      Reply #4: Apr 15, 2019 09:52:09 am
      Henderson is simply playing his natural position allowing Fabinho to play as DM.
      Henderson and Keita are both allowed to go forward but both defend when they need to. I don't like Henderson as a DM, I think he's not at the level needed but he can contribute a lot forward with his runs, passes and pressing. Against Porto, the pass he made for TAA was possible because he was allowed to go further up the pitch, it's harder if you're a DM to be there. His assist against Chelsea shows that he can have a real impact in front.

      As for Keita, he has simply adapted to the team and is being allowed to do what he does well: move the ball forward and create opportunities with dribbles and passes. He can improve and I hope he does.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #5: Apr 15, 2019 12:11:02 pm
      Thanks to those answering thus far.

      Of course you can still find either player even with the back line in certain situations  . The fluidity of our midfielders' positioning is still one of the most interesting features of how we play under Klopp.
      Swab
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #6: Apr 15, 2019 12:17:57 pm
      As BR once said, "invert the triangle".
      redkop63
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #7: Apr 17, 2019 01:10:29 pm
      At the rate Hendo is playing, I will put his name first on the list. I haven't praised Hendo for a long long time but criticism aplenty and I'm not gong to lie by saying otherwise. But in the last 2 games he was immense, shown true leadership and drove the team forward. That's the Hendo I would like to see. Ok, he's no Stevie but 3/4 of Stevie is good enough for me. I hope Hendo continues his good form and drives. It's like having a new player on the pitch.

      He can be as fast as a blink of the eye and yet he can also be as slow as a tortoise. Hence, I have started to have a change of opinion on Hendo. Hope Klopp continues to take the shackles off hendo.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #8: Apr 17, 2019 01:54:12 pm
      At the rate Hendo is playing, I will put his name first on the list. I haven't praised Hendo for a long long time but criticism aplenty and I'm not gong to lie by saying otherwise. But in the last 2 games he was immense, shown true leadership and drove the team forward. That's the Hendo I would like to see. Ok, he's no Stevie but 3/4 of Stevie is good enough for me. I hope Hendo continues his good form and drives. It's like having a new player on the pitch.

      He can be as fast as a blink of the eye and yet he can also be as slow as a tortoise. Hence, I have started to have a change of opinion on Hendo. Hope Klopp continues to take the shackles off hendo.

      I agree with you, I to have criticized Henderson, but he has deserved it, and I will continue to criticize him when he deserves it.. playing further froward as definitely improved and added something to his game which we have not seen before...

      This is not aimed at you redkop63 unless you are one of those who always claim that the manager knows best...


      Take not people One or two posters here, (I was not one of them) have been calling for quite some time for Henderson to be played as a no 8, there are quite a few here who believe that Klopp see and notices everything when it comes to his players and we as supporters can not see what the manager can. Or because you have not either player football at a professional level, or manager at that level you do not know of witch you speak...

      We (The Supporters) have watch enough football to have a very good idea of what we are talking about, An if you still believe that Klopp and people who have played at a top level know it all and we mere supporters know nothing, please remind yourself when you slag of the tv pundits for giving their opinions....

      So i hope you people will now stop with that nonsense
      Kopite78
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #9: Apr 17, 2019 03:09:27 pm
      I agree with you, I to have criticized Henderson, but he has deserved it, and I will continue to criticize him when he deserves it.. playing further froward as definitely improved and added something to his game which we have not seen before...


      Well that's not true as he played as an 8 for us from around 2012-2015
      Swab
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #10: Apr 17, 2019 03:16:02 pm
      Well that's not true as he played as an 8 for us from around 2012-2015

      Yep, and the reason he was moved to 6 is because he was our best option at the time.
      Now that Fabinho is starting to settle, we have another option there, and Henderson can push up and show his quality.

      The problem with the 6 (ish) position is that it's not an eye catching role.
      It's a role that's important though, and Henderson has done well in there.
      The same as Lucas did, another good player who got sh*t from people who don't understand the position.

      For me, it's all about having options, and I think when AOC is back, and Keita gets properly into gear (not forgetting Shaqiri) we have so many options in the middle, and that can only be good for us.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #11: Apr 17, 2019 03:23:18 pm
      Yep, and the reason he was moved to 6 is because he was our best option at the time.
      Now that Fabinho is starting to settle, we have another option there, and Henderson can push up and show his quality.

      The problem with the 6 (ish) position is that it's not an eye catching role.
      It's a role that's important though, and Henderson has done well in there.
      The same as Lucas did, another good player who got sh*t from people who don't understand the position.

      For me, it's all about having options, and I think when AOC is back, and Keita gets properly into gear (not forgetting Shaqiri) we have so many options in the middle, and that can only be good for us.

      What I can't understand is people's want and need to be right

      To slag one of our players off because they aren't doing what they want them to do.. regardless of the fact that they're obviously doing what the manager wants them to do in that position or role - because here's the key, if they weren't doing what the manager wants then they wouldn't play - but they think oh I'm.going after them because that's my right and I get it

      But it's the inability to go with the flow and enjoy it, if Hendo - in this example - plays well they can't simply admit that, they need to look for an angle to justify their original position  on it

      It's like the title race.. I keep reading this sh*te- oh tell me where city drop points - just so if we don't do it they can say.. see I told you so, I'm right all along, we blew it when we drew with Leicester.. Like I told you so at the time
      Just f**king enjoy it.. because I'll tell you one thing neither us or city will have failed this season when both finish mid 90 points

      Don't get it myself..  never have
      ruthcity
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #12: Apr 17, 2019 03:24:37 pm
      I agree with you, I to have criticized Henderson, but he has deserved it, and I will continue to criticize him when he deserves it.. playing further froward as definitely improved and added something to his game which we have not seen before...

      Looks like he has heard your criticisms and that has whipped him into the footballer he is today. Carry on criticizing him so that he'll morph into a Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Platini, Eusebo all combined into one soon!

      Can you work your magic on Simon and Loris as well? We need Loris back to pose in the new kit! ;D
      brezipool
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #13: Apr 17, 2019 03:30:45 pm
      Hendo has been great no matter where he has played, he has done what every manager has asked of him.

      What we as fans think of where he is played, is largely irrelevant, apart from us having opinions and discussions.

      What I never liked from some fans on other social media, was the obvious hatred and agenda towards hendo, lots of it coming from people who really only wanted to see their fave african player starting, the so called brexit midfield label is also very offensive.

      Very strange all-together. ;D.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #14: Apr 17, 2019 03:34:04 pm
      Looks like he has heard your criticisms and that has whipped him into the footballer he is today. Carry on criticizing him so that he'll morph into a Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Platini, Eusebo all combined into one soon!

      Can you work your magic on Simon and Loris as well? We need Loris back to pose in the new kit! ;D
      Your wish is my command   ;D
      Kopite78
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #15: Apr 17, 2019 03:34:11 pm
      Hendo has been great no matter where he has played, he has done what every manager has asked of him.

      What we as fans think of where he is played, is largely irrelevant, apart from us having opinions and discussions.

      What I never liked from some fans on other social media, was the obvious hatred and agenda towards hendo, lots of it coming from people who really only wanted to see their fave african player starting, the so called brexit midfield label is also very offensive.

      Very strange all-together. ;D.

      I don't do social media.. can't be bothered with it.. it's literally the worst of society

      But is that what it's called? The brexit midfield ? 😂
      Picked by an outspoken pro EU backing German
      😂

      Some people
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #16: Apr 17, 2019 03:41:21 pm
      Hendo has been great no matter where he has played, he has done what every manager has asked of him.

      What we as fans think of where he is played, is largely irrelevant, apart from us having opinions and discussions.

      What I never liked from some fans on other social media, was the obvious hatred and agenda towards hendo, lots of it coming from people who really only wanted to see their fave african player starting, the so called brexit midfield label is also very offensive.

      Very strange all-together. ;D.
      I don't care where a player comes from or what race  he is, If he plays well that fine if not... milner playing a 6, especially with Milner in midfield is not a good combo and as for the "obvious hatred and agenda towards hendo" if he does not play well or there is someone who can do the job better then I believe most supporters would want to see him replaced. It's a footballing agenda
      macbk
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #17: Apr 17, 2019 03:42:46 pm
      Hendo & Naby have both been 'unleashed' so to speak in recent weeks. I think a major factor of their play stems from what Fab has been able to bring to the mid as well.
      Swab
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #18: Apr 17, 2019 03:43:20 pm
      What I can't understand is people's want and need to be right

      To slag one of our players off because they aren't doing what they want them to do.. regardless of the fact that they're obviously doing what the manager wants them to do in that position or role - because here's the key, if they weren't doing what the manager wants then they wouldn't play - but they think oh I'm.going after them because that's my right and I get it

      But it's the inability to go with the flow and enjoy it, if Hendo - in this example - plays well they can't simply admit that, they need to look for an angle to justify their original position  on it

      It's like the title race.. I keep reading this sh*te- oh tell me where city drop points - just so if we don't do it they can say.. see I told you so, I'm right all along, we blew it when we drew with Leicester.. Like I told you so at the time
      Just f**king enjoy it.. because I'll tell you one thing neither us or city will have failed this season when both finish mid 90 points

      Don't get it myself..  never have

      Social media has given everyone a voice, and the problem is that everyone thinks their opinion has equal value just because it's their opinion.
      It's why I don't have social media; it's full of idiots who think they know more than they do.
      It's the same in real life of course, except some of the sh*t expressed on social media would get them a slap if they said it in the pub.

      I see all the posts on here from people "stressing" about whether or not we win the league, but to me, if someone can't enjoy this ride, and see the astonishing progress and the season we've had, I don't know why they bother even following football.
      I'm so relaxed now about the end of the season, because what we've done is remarkable, even if we don't win it.
      We've gone toe to toe with perhaps the most financially doped team in football, and matched them every step of the way.
      Of course I'm hoping we win the league, but I'm pretty relaxed now.

      I'm so chuffed with what the lads have done this season.
      They've been brilliant and they deserve all the plaudits they get.
      brezipool
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #19: Apr 17, 2019 04:26:43 pm
      I don't do social media.. can't be bothered with it.. it's literally the worst of society

      But is that what it's called? The brexit midfield ? 😂
      Picked by an outspoken pro EU backing German
      😂

      Some people

      ;D exactly
      brezipool
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #20: Apr 17, 2019 04:28:55 pm
      I don't care where a player comes from or what race  he is, If he plays well that fine if not... milner playing a 6, especially with Milner in midfield is not a good combo and as for the "obvious hatred and agenda towards hendo" if he does not play well or there is someone who can do the job better then I believe most supporters would want to see him replaced. It's a footballing agenda

      On this forum yes its football reasons.

      But try looking on FB, Instagram & Twitter when a team with Milner & Hendo is announced, or god forbid Naby or Fab are not starting. Its not a football agenda with these people.
      brezipool
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #21: Apr 17, 2019 04:29:43 pm
      Social media has given everyone a voice, and the problem is that everyone thinks their opinion has equal value just because it's their opinion.
      It's why I don't have social media; it's full of idiots who think they know more than they do.
      It's the same in real life of course, except some of the sh*t expressed on social media would get them a slap if they said it in the pub.

      I see all the posts on here from people "stressing" about whether or not we win the league, but to me, if someone can't enjoy this ride, and see the astonishing progress and the season we've had, I don't know why they bother even following football.
      I'm so relaxed now about the end of the season, because what we've done is remarkable, even if we don't win it.
      We've gone toe to toe with perhaps the most financially doped team in football, and matched them every step of the way.
      Of course I'm hoping we win the league, but I'm pretty relaxed now.

      I'm so chuffed with what the lads have done this season.
      They've been brilliant and they deserve all the plaudits they get.

      agreed
      Magillionare
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #22: Apr 17, 2019 05:31:29 pm
      I do find it interesting how quickly bandwagons are formed.

      People are now commenting on 'look how Henderson chases down the ball' and 'watch how many times he wins it back for us'. It's been that way for literally years, I've been telling people to open their eyes, all it took was a few posts from big time online pundits/magazines/sites saying what myself and many others have been harping on about for years and suddenly everyone's an expert on cutting passing lanes and recoveries of possession, including some people on twitter I had arguments with about when the denied the very same thing they're suddenly claiming to have known about all along!

      Which while mildly frustrating on a personal level as it's taken long enough for people to notice (granted the move to 8 highlights these features of his game better), it is still definitely a good thing.

      Top player.

      p.s. Keita, wow what an improvement!
      Swab
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #23: Apr 17, 2019 06:00:30 pm
      I do find it interesting how quickly bandwagons are formed.

      People are now commenting on 'look how Henderson chases down the ball' and 'watch how many times he wins it back for us'. It's been that way for literally years, I've been telling people to open their eyes, all it took was a few posts from big time online pundits/magazines/sites saying what myself and many others have been harping on about for years and suddenly everyone's an expert on cutting passing lanes and recoveries of possession, including some people on twitter I had arguments with about when the denied the very same thing they're suddenly claiming to have known about all along!

      Which while mildly frustrating on a personal level as it's taken long enough for people to notice (granted the move to 8 highlights these features of his game better), it is still definitely a good thing.

      Top player.

      p.s. Keita, wow what an improvement!

      A couple of the "experts" on here spent days trying to take the piss when I spoke about passing lanes a while back.

      It just goes to show that there is a crew here more interested in being "right" than talking about football, and ironically, they rely on social media for their forum opinions.

      Makes me laugh.

      As far as I was concerned, anyone with even a marginal interest in football should see Hendersons value to the team.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #24: Apr 17, 2019 06:44:11 pm
      A couple of the "experts" on here spent days trying to take the piss when I spoke about passing lanes a while back.

      It just goes to show that there is a crew here more interested in being "right" than talking about football, and ironically, they rely on social media for their forum opinions.

      Makes me laugh.

      As far as I was concerned, anyone with even a marginal interest in football should see Hendersons value to the team.

      I wonder what Hendo and Naby would say about understanding with one another on the pitch. Would love for a reporter to ask one or both about it, rather than the standard "are you feeling title race pressure?"and "do you think City will drop points?" Would like to hear it in their words.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #25: Apr 17, 2019 06:44:22 pm
      A couple of the "experts" on here spent days trying to take the piss when I spoke about passing lanes a while back.

      It just goes to show that there is a crew here more interested in being "right" than talking about football, and ironically, they rely on social media for their forum opinions.

      Makes me laugh.

      As far as I was concerned, anyone with even a marginal interest in football should see Hendersons value to the team.

      I wonder what Hendo and Naby would say about understanding with one another on the pitch. Would love for a reporter to ask one or both about it, rather than the standard "are you feeling title race pressure?"and "do you think City will drop points?" Would like to hear it in their words.
      Swab
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #26: Apr 17, 2019 07:10:29 pm
      I wonder what Hendo and Naby would say about understanding with one another on the pitch. Would love for a reporter to ask one or both about it, rather than the standard "are you feeling title race pressure?"and "do you think City will drop points?" Would like to hear it in their words.

      I think that's the kind of question asked on LFCTV rather than by reporters.

      Keita is starting to find his groove though, and all our midfielders should be able to interchange,
      Magillionare
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #27: Apr 17, 2019 08:42:25 pm
      I wonder what Hendo and Naby would say about understanding with one another on the pitch. Would love for a reporter to ask one or both about it, rather than the standard "are you feeling title race pressure?"and "do you think City will drop points?" Would like to hear it in their words.

      That type of journalism is sadly missing today
      Scotia
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      Re: Henderson, Keita and our Tactics
      Reply #28: Apr 18, 2019 08:15:35 am
      What I can't understand is people's want and need to be right

      To slag one of our players off because they aren't doing what they want them to do.. regardless of the fact that they're obviously doing what the manager wants them to do in that position or role - because here's the key, if they weren't doing what the manager wants then they wouldn't play - but they think oh I'm.going after them because that's my right and I get it

      But it's the inability to go with the flow and enjoy it, if Hendo - in this example - plays well they can't simply admit that, they need to look for an angle to justify their original position  on it

      It's like the title race.. I keep reading this sh*te- oh tell me where city drop points - just so if we don't do it they can say.. see I told you so, I'm right all along, we blew it when we drew with Leicester.. Like I told you so at the time
      Just f**king enjoy it.. because I'll tell you one thing neither us or city will have failed this season when both finish mid 90 points

      Don't get it myself..  never have

      For some on here - it’s more important to be heard voicing their “opinions” than to be balanced or constructive.

      “I don’t like that so Jürgen is wrong and Hendo is a dick” etc etc

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