Trending Topics

      Next match: Dortmund v LFC [Friendly] Fri 19th Jul @ 1:00 am
      University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA

      Today is the 16th of July and on this date LFC's match record is P7 W6 D0 L1

      Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)

      Read 2543 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,802 posts | 2403 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #75: Jul 07, 2019 09:16:14 pm
      Do you mean when Oxlade was out for the season with a serious injury hence looking to first bring in Fekir and then Shaqiri. Oxlade back now

      Barcelona and Madrid raid the Portuguese League regularly - if this guys stats stand up as a record that shows he can mix it with the best in Europe and not just Portugal and Europa League - why wouldn’t they be looking at a player in a position they would certainly benefit from ?

      I have no doubt he is a player that will flourish in a less frantic physical league where he gets time on the ball and space but from what I have seen he wouldn’t work out in the Prem - doesn’t make him a bad player


      Klopp doesn’t mess around with signings anymore - he makes it known early he wants the player - interviews with both VVD and Keita will tell you that. So I’m confident to say that if Klopp wanted another attacking mid and likes Fernandes then there isn’t much standing in the way.

      Haha I'll try to say this nicely but the quality of your arguments is questionable to say the least. Players hardly perform to the same standards at international stage as they do for their clubs - so judging a player based largely on that leads you nowhere. Then it goes to "if he's so good, then why haven't Barcelona or Madrid signed him?" kind of argument. This is clutching at straws. There are many potential reasons why two particular clubs are not buying a particular player and that has really no bearing on how good he is or isn't. Then of course by having watched him a couple of times you're "pretty sure" that he isn't good enough and have "no doubt" that he'll flourish in a different league. A bunch of clichés thrown there just to make up for the fact that you have *barely* watched him. It's ok not to pass an opinion, you know.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,132 posts | 446 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #76: Jul 07, 2019 09:18:05 pm
      He didn’t speak about Mo, Mane, Virgil or Keita from what I remember. The talk was we were signing Gotze, there was no mention about Mane other than being a potential alternative.

      He did - he spoke about them all when they were in the process of signing them , indeed his speaking of VVD was part of the reason why it fell apart. Goetze was nothing but “media” talk prob the same with this but Mane was spoken about by the “respected” sources. Goetze was nothing but lazy 2+2 = 5

      Quote
      When are some people going to realise we didn’t sign shaqiri as an alternative, he’s a completely different player to Fekir! There was talk of Shaqiri signing when we were after Fekir!

      You don’t rate the player, fine. End of, doesn’t change the fact you know jack though, just like the rest of us.

      Sorry but if Fekir did arrive then Shaqiri wouldn’t have - simple as that, you can think other alternative theories but once the Fekir deal fell through the manager looked a different option and adjust his thinking and indeed his tactics
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,132 posts | 446 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #77: Jul 07, 2019 09:22:37 pm
      Haha I'll try to say this nicely but the quality of your arguments is questionable to say the least. Players hardly perform to the same standards at international stage as they do for their clubs - so judging a player based largely on that leads you nowhere. Then it goes to "if he's so good, then why haven't Barcelona or Madrid signed him?" kind of argument. This is clutching at straws. There are many potential reasons why two particular clubs are not buying a particular player and that has really no bearing on how good he is or isn't. Then of course by having watched him a couple of times you're "pretty sure" that he isn't good enough and have "no doubt" that he'll flourish in a different league. A bunch of clichés thrown there just to make up for the fact that you have *barely* watched him. It's ok not to pass an opinion, you know.

      How did he do in the Europa League playing for his club against Arsenal ? I guess you seem to have ignored that fact ?

      Am I ok to judge him on those two games as well ? Or will that be dismissed because “it’s just Europa”

      So tell me when someone is allowed to pass judgment and an opinion on a player then ? Is there a certain number ? A particular competition? Opposition?

      I’m not sure what this “it’s ok not to pass an opinion” business is ? Are you suggesting that because my opinion of the player is negative then it’s best not said ?

      Billo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,124 posts | 329 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #78: Jul 08, 2019 05:19:30 am
      A good player is a good player nomatter which league he comes from.
      The argument that "oh he has done so well is because it's a weaker league" is just silly.

      Nothing to do with Bruno, but seen it being thrown around alot and it's total bull.
      Vicks86
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,546 posts | 242 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #79: Jul 08, 2019 06:37:24 am
      He did play as the left sided attacker last season in a fair share of games. He is primarily a SS or can play false-9 too. Apparently, he was our initial target before Fekir and Sporting's instability last year made us reevaluate our options.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,297 posts | 1815 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #80: Jul 08, 2019 07:57:35 am
      He did play as the left sided attacker last season in a fair share of games. He is primarily a SS or can play false-9 too. Apparently, he was our initial target before Fekir and Sporting's instability last year made us reevaluate our options.

      SS ? Are we talking a shadow striker like in football manager ? Not sure about that to be honest.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,297 posts | 1815 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #81: Jul 08, 2019 07:58:22 am
      A good player is a good player nomatter which league he comes from.
      The argument that "oh he has done so well is because it's a weaker league" is just silly.

      Nothing to do with Bruno, but seen it being thrown around alot and it's total bull.

      When i have seen him in the cl and europa league he has been average at best
      Magillionare
      • Official LFC Reds Sig Maker. Lives on Sesame Street.
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,843 posts | 2312 
      • Hold on a minute, John Wayne hasn't arrived yet.
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #82: Jul 08, 2019 09:05:19 am
      A good player is a good player nomatter which league he comes from.
      The argument that "oh he has done so well is because it's a weaker league" is just silly.

      Nothing to do with Bruno, but seen it being thrown around alot and it's total bull.

      I would strongly disagree with this mate.

      Some players can be made like world beaters in leagues that just don’t have the quality to stop them.

      You’ll see top scorers for teams in lower leagues or leagues abroad try their luck in England and fail miserably time after time after time.

      It’s a scouts job to factor in things like quality of opposition and also room for improvement.

      While I do get you say about them still being a good player in one league they’ll be a good player in another, it doesn’t really matter if the players in the other league are better than good player standard.
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,802 posts | 2403 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #83: Jul 08, 2019 10:28:59 am
      How did he do in the Europa League playing for his club against Arsenal ? I guess you seem to have ignored that fact ?

      Am I ok to judge him on those two games as well ? Or will that be dismissed because “it’s just Europa”

      So tell me when someone is allowed to pass judgment and an opinion on a player then ? Is there a certain number ? A particular competition? Opposition?

      I’m not sure what this “it’s ok not to pass an opinion” business is ? Are you suggesting that because my opinion of the player is negative then it’s best not said ?



      I have not ignored his games vs Arsenal, I was also in the stadium when that was played in Alvalade. Sadly I have no magic number to give you, but that's surely more than 2 club games. Especially if you're going to dismiss nearly 50 direct goal involvements in a single season for a midfielder as "decent stats" only to then blurb out total certainties about his future based on two games against vastly superior opposition. If you can't see the flaw in that then I'll let you for your own ramblings.

      Btw, I'm not against any negative opinions of the player nor suggesting anything, what I hope I am clearly stating is that if you're going to accuse others of overhyping a player due to "football console game" then give us a sure assessment of his quality and his future it should be done based on more than a handful of games and a bunch of clichés.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,132 posts | 446 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #84: Jul 08, 2019 01:03:05 pm
      I have not ignored his games vs Arsenal, I was also in the stadium when that was played in Alvalade. Sadly I have no magic number to give you, but that's surely more than 2 club games. Especially if you're going to dismiss nearly 50 direct goal involvements in a single season for a midfielder as "decent stats" only to then blurb out total certainties about his future based on two games against vastly superior opposition. If you can't see the flaw in that then I'll let you for your own ramblings.

      It’s just stats at the end of day - some shocking signings have been made by many a club when a player has “great stats” - have to take the opposition into consideration and regardless of what people say the Portuguese League is one of the weakest leagues in Europe and there are no doubt plenty players who don’t do well in the Prem could shine in Portugal

      He was anonymous against an opponent which is a step up from his league , same again when playing for his country

      Quote
      Btw, I'm not against any negative opinions of the player nor suggesting anything, what I hope I am clearly stating is that if you're going to accuse others of overhyping a player due to "football console game" then give us a sure assessment of his quality and his future it should be done based on more than a handful of games and a bunch of clichés.

      I didn’t point any fingers at anyone in particular and of you want to take my comment on a personal level then that’s your choice but for me imo people will rate a player from how well they look stat wise and how they play on a simulator - because a good number of the players just like Fernandes are playing in leagues that aren’t televised in the UK so 99/100 don’t watch him or other stuff play
      Diego LFC
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 18,802 posts | 2403 
      • Sempre Liverpool
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #85: Jul 08, 2019 03:04:30 pm
      It’s just stats at the end of day - some shocking signings have been made by many a club when a player has “great stats” - have to take the opposition into consideration and regardless of what people say the Portuguese League is one of the weakest leagues in Europe and there are no doubt plenty players who don’t do well in the Prem could shine in Portugal

      He was anonymous against an opponent which is a step up from his league , same again when playing for his country

      I didn’t point any fingers at anyone in particular and of you want to take my comment on a personal level then that’s your choice but for me imo people will rate a player from how well they look stat wise and how they play on a simulator - because a good number of the players just like Fernandes are playing in leagues that aren’t televised in the UK so 99/100 don’t watch him or other stuff play

      That still doesn't make them just decent. It was a historic season for a midfielder, you'd have to go back decades to find a similar one, even in Portugal. I'm not arguing that those numbers will necessarily translate in a different league, but they're by definition standout stats in every possible way you look at them, and even players that have left Portugal for greater success in other leagues never had similar stats whilst in the league. That you don't rate him does not change this fact. The Portuguese league is quite boring and definitely not great, but it's not one of the weakest in Europe, 2018-19 UEFA season coefficients have it even above France.

      I think there are significant mitigating circumstances for a player in a team seriously struggling (for a large portion of the season Sporting were 4th behind Braga) playing against a fairly superior team or performing as a relatively new international. If I were to judge Gerrard or Lampard as England players in a said World Cup, I'd probably not be overly impressed either.

      At the end of the day there's no science to which player adapts and which doesn't, as much as people like to have certainties. If Bruno Fernandes signed for a boring Man Utd he'd most likely not score half the goals he currently does, but if he played for a Man City with freedom to attack he might as well keep up a similar pace. Raul Jimenez was a bench warmer that struggled to impress in the "terrible" Portuguese league and went on to become a regular starter at the Premier League 7th place because he moved to a team that suited his style. Imagine signing a Portuguese league flop and having him become a success in England - that doesn't fit the narrative but it can happen.

      I didn’t point any fingers at anyone in particular and of you want to take my comment on a personal level then that’s your choice but for me imo people will rate a player from how well they look stat wise and how they play on a simulator - because a good number of the players just like Fernandes are playing in leagues that aren’t televised in the UK so 99/100 don’t watch him or other stuff play

      I did not take it personally, honestly I just found it arrogant. To be fair, being quick in judging a player can work both ways. A lot of people that are keen on signing him keep saying he "can play as a striker" or "false 9" or whatever (I've seen that elsewhere, not just in this forum), though I don't think he has ever played as a striker in his life. I was told on Facebook that "he's not a central midfielder", which is funny because he played most of his season as one. It's easy to get the impression that people are just going by the numbers of a standout season that might as well be a point completely out of the curve, and creating whatever narrative they like best.

      Personally one of the of the reasons I like Bruno Fernandes isn't just because of his goalscoring, and I don't see him as an alternative to Firmino upfront - I actually love his work-rate, his defensive contribution and how much ground he covers.
      Billo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,124 posts | 329 
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #86: Jul 08, 2019 03:13:50 pm
      I would strongly disagree with this mate.

      Some players can be made like world beaters in leagues that just don’t have the quality to stop them.

      You’ll see top scorers for teams in lower leagues or leagues abroad try their luck in England and fail miserably time after time after time.

      It’s a scouts job to factor in things like quality of opposition and also room for improvement.

      While I do get you say about them still being a good player in one league they’ll be a good player in another, it doesn’t really matter if the players in the other league are better than good player standard.

      I totally agree with that scouts have to factor in  leagues and so on.
      what I define as a good player, is a player who continue to do well no matter where or in which league. Then he will continue to do so.

      There are up and downs but a good player will stick out. There are plenty of players whom have come from weaker leagues and done well, then there are players who stay in the league but change clubs and struggle.

      There is always going to be a risk signing a player nomatter whom or from where. Just saying that a weaker league is not a definite answer and therefore should not be thrown around as a argument.
      We Liverpool fans should know better.
      We signed mo from serie a, and I swear if you go to his transfer thread then it was the same argument being thrown around for not signing him.
      There are so many factors in what a good player is, and league one, is not so huge as some people here tend to believe. I dare say that the scouts think as I do because we have signed  as many player from weaker leagues as from other clubs in England.
      Magillionare
      • Official LFC Reds Sig Maker. Lives on Sesame Street.
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,843 posts | 2312 
      • Hold on a minute, John Wayne hasn't arrived yet.
      Re: Bruno Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon)
      Reply #87: Jul 08, 2019 06:54:43 pm
      I totally agree with that scouts have to factor in  leagues and so on.
      what I define as a good player, is a player who continue to do well no matter where or in which league. Then he will continue to do so.

      There are up and downs but a good player will stick out. There are plenty of players whom have come from weaker leagues and done well, then there are players who stay in the league but change clubs and struggle.

      There is always going to be a risk signing a player nomatter whom or from where. Just saying that a weaker league is not a definite answer and therefore should not be thrown around as a argument.
      We Liverpool fans should know better.
      We signed mo from serie a, and I swear if you go to his transfer thread then it was the same argument being thrown around for not signing him.
      There are so many factors in what a good player is, and league one, is not so huge as some people here tend to believe. I dare say that the scouts think as I do because we have signed  as many player from weaker leagues as from other clubs in England.


      It's a close one. For every Salah there's an Aquilani. Wouldn't want to be a scout myself!

      Quick Reply