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      UEFA Euro 2020

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      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #115: Jun 10, 2021 11:24:49 pm
      Exactly. It was better than the World Cup in my opinion. But Euro 2016 was probably the worst tournament I've watched quality wise. No offence, but when three of the four UK nations can get to a tournament then you know something's a bit off.

      But if a handful of teams can turn up maybe that will be good. I'm backing Italy for this one.


      A format where you can qualify for the knockouts without winning a game just isn't fit for purpose really.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #116: Jun 11, 2021 01:10:49 am
      Compare that to the ESL, which aimed to turn the European Cup into a closed shop.

      This comparison makes no sense. The Euros are the pinnacle of European football, you need to earn your place in it, as you do in the Champions League for club football. Completely different to creating a closed shop competition.

      In the Euros now, every group game has something on it.

      And also a lot of convenient draws, with the champions drawing 6 out of 7 games in regular time. It shouldn't be possible to win a competition if you can hardly win a game, this format makes a mockery of the group stage.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #117: Jun 11, 2021 07:11:04 am
      UEFA and FIFA should be praised for opening up competitions to more teams, so that more countries get a chance to compete and win. Compare that to the ESL, which aimed to turn the European Cup into a closed shop. The Euros this year will be a great experience for the nations of Finland and Macedonia, as it's all new to them. Greece went from bottom of the qualifying table who never won a tournament game, to EC winners in 10 years. While Croatia reached the semi finals in their first World Cup. I don't think they criticised the decision to increase the tournament that year. 4 years later, Turkey and South Korea were semi finalists. Australia would never qualify before, now they are one of the first qualifiers for every WC. Everyone has to start somewhere.

      In the Euros now, every group game has something on it. Before the last expansion, the same countries qualified every time. There were a lot of dead rubbers in the last group game. Now even if you draw/lose your first 2, you can still get a third spot and a possible qualification spot in your last game. Sure, not every game will be a classic, but that's the case in any tournament. But it's definitely better to be one of the later groups to finish, as you know where you stand and who your next round opponent is, sooner than those in the earlier groups, where you could be waiting around up to 3 days after your last game to find out who and where you'll be playing, or if you'll be playing in the second round at all.

      It’s sh*te

      Made a mockery of what used to be a great competition


      They changed it in typical UEFA style to get more money
      brezipool
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #118: Jun 11, 2021 07:17:56 am
      Well Im glad Euros have been expanded, and Im over the moon scotland qualified through the new nations league.

      So well done Eufa.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #119: Jun 11, 2021 12:14:49 pm
      I am sure the fans of the Lincoln Red Imps would also be happy if they qualified to the Champions League group stage but that would hardly mean it would be a better competition for it.

      I think if you are going to allow more teams into it, then at the very least you need to figure out a better system.

      A team that draws three games in group stage shouldn't be able to qualify. That is not to say Portugal did not deserve their title - as long as the rules are the same for everyone, I think the final result is always fair -, the problem I have with it is that it makes the bulk of the competition largely irrelevant by making a mockery of the group stage.
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #120: Jun 11, 2021 12:37:50 pm
      There are too many teams in the Euros these days. Remember Portugal won the last one after drawing 3 group stage games and somehow qualifying in 3rd. It's a bit of a joke. They managed to win it all with one single win within 90 minutes of football.

      I used to think of the Euros as that great competition where the level was really high with very few poor matches but can't say that looks like it anymore

      Yep four groups of four is the sweet spot for me.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #121: Jun 11, 2021 12:59:31 pm
      I am sure the fans of the Lincoln Red Imps would also be happy if they qualified to the Champions League group stage but that would hardly mean it would be a better competition for it.

      I think if you are going to allow more teams into it, then at the very least you need to figure out a better system.

      A team that draws three games in group stage shouldn't be able to qualify. That is not to say Portugal did not deserve their title - as long as the rules are the same for everyone, I think the final result is always fair -, the problem I have with it is that it makes the bulk of the competition largely irrelevant by making a mockery of the group stage.

      Exactly.

      It's a real shame. I think that run of tournaments from Euro 2000 to Euro 2008 was phenomenal. Euro 2012 was an enjoyable tournament as well I thought. Why wreck such a perfect setup. As Si said, it hit the sweet spot.
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #122: Jun 11, 2021 03:10:01 pm
      Quote from Diego LFC
      This comparison makes no sense. The Euros are the pinnacle of European football, you need to earn your place in it, as you do in the Champions League for club football. Completely different to creating a closed shop competition.

      And also a lot of convenient draws, with the champions drawing 6 out of 7 games in regular time. It shouldn't be possible to win a competition if you can hardly win a game, this format makes a mockery of the group stage.

      I am sure the fans of the Lincoln Red Imps would also be happy if they qualified to the Champions League group stage but that would hardly mean it would be a better competition for it.

      Exactly the thinking behind the ESL. "How dare there be any new teams in the best club competition in Europe?" Whoever qualifies for the group stage has done so on merit, and  have earned the right to make their own contribution to the competition.

      You do what you need to do to win it. Until we won in Madrid, we hadn't won any competition without penalties since 2003. Did you complain about that?

      Portugal scraped into the knockout round last time after a 3-3 rollercoaster. Trying to get through a group with 3 draws is extremely risky, and depends a lot on the results in other groups, something you have no control over. England have won the very impressive total of 0 knockout games in the tournament since 1980. (They won 1 on penalties 25 years ago, lost the rest) They still think they have won every tournament before the next one is played, as they do this one. Then the football starts.

      You earn your place in the Euros, as you have to play 8-10 qualifiers over the past 2 years, and playoffs. For the biggest countries qualifying is easy, but for most countries it's always a struggle. It's the hardest international tournament of all to win, and as it has expanded, it's only got more difficult to win, and so England have never won it at all.

      Quote from Frankly, Mr Shankly
      Exactly. It was better than the World Cup in my opinion. But Euro 2016 was probably the worst tournament I've watched quality wise. No offence, but when three of the four UK nations can get to a tournament then you know something's a bit off.

      They're not UK nations to UEFA. They're individual nations in their own right. In that context, England v Scotland is the same as Belgium v Holland Spain v Portugal France v Germany Poland v Slovakia etc.

      When you have to find 16 teams to qualify from 24 in this format, there's no alternative but to allow 3rd place teams to qualify with the 12 others. Instead of diluting the quality of the tournament, it means every group game has something at stake. The same number of teams will not make the knockout rounds in this format, as in the last format.

      If you want to see a joke format, look at the Copa America, with free entry for every team and just 2 groups of 5 in the group stage. Only the bottom team from each group won't make the knockout rounds. You could probably name both of them before it even begins.
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #123: Jun 11, 2021 04:07:16 pm
      Who we all going for then?

      I've always been an Italy fan, I think since Italia 90, so it's the Azzurri for me.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #124: Jun 11, 2021 04:09:44 pm
      Who we all going for then?

      I've always been an Italy fan, I think since Italia 90, so it's the Azzurri for me.

      What they on a 22 unbeaten run, could be ones to look out for this tournament.
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #125: Jun 11, 2021 04:11:27 pm
      What they on a 22 unbeaten run, could be ones to look out for this tournament.

      I think they're a little under the radar as well Shabs.

      I'm not that big into international football but do enjoy the two big tournaments.
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #126: Jun 11, 2021 08:06:00 pm
      Nessun Dorma was fantastic there.

      And the Italian national anthem.

      Come on Azzurri!!
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #127: Jun 11, 2021 08:24:00 pm
      Brilliant save by the Turkish keeper..
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #128: Jun 11, 2021 08:29:16 pm
      Brilliant save by the Turkish keeper..

      It was.

      I thought for a moment I was the only one on here watching the game. ;D
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #129: Jun 11, 2021 08:32:52 pm
      It was.

      I thought for a moment I was the only one on here watching the game. ;D

      😂

      Everyone else is the FSG thread.. 😂
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #130: Jun 11, 2021 08:33:26 pm
      😂

      Everyone else is the FSG thread.. 😂

      Indeed ;D

      The Italian front three have some nice movement between them.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #131: Jun 11, 2021 08:34:47 pm
      Indeed ;D

      The Italian front three have some nice movement between them.

      Bit like us previous seasons..
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #132: Jun 11, 2021 08:39:05 pm
      Every time, without fail, a international tournament comes around, I let myself get so hyped and then the first game always reminds me how dire international football actually is and I fall right back down to Earth.

      Every time, without fail.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #133: Jun 11, 2021 08:40:10 pm
      Jeez, Mancini looks younger... 😳
      RedPuppy
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #134: Jun 11, 2021 08:46:37 pm
      Guy F***ing Mowbray commentating isn't he?

      Can't stand his voice, tone, pronunciations.
      srslfc
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #135: Jun 11, 2021 08:48:25 pm
      Every time, without fail, a international tournament comes around, I let myself get so hyped and then the first game always reminds me how dire international football actually is and I fall right back down to Earth.

      Every time, without fail.

      I've enjoyed it.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #136: Jun 11, 2021 08:56:16 pm
      Exactly the thinking behind the ESL. "How dare there be any new teams in the best club competition in Europe?"

      I am sorry but it's not the same thinking at all. The Euros with 4 groups of 4 were an open competition to anyone who performed well enough in the qualifiers. The ESL would be a closed shop.

      Expanding international competitions has its merits, for sure, but it's not because it goes against the 'thinking' behind the ESL - the two are completely different things.

      You do what you need to do to win it. Until we won in Madrid, we hadn't won any competition without penalties since 2003. Did you complain about that?

      Portugal scraped into the knockout round last time after a 3-3 rollercoaster. Trying to get through a group with 3 draws is extremely risky, and depends a lot on the results in other groups, something you have no control over.

      I said above I do not dispute that Portugal deserved their title. The rules were the same to all, so fair play to them for winning it the way they did, however ugly I might think it was.

      What we are discussing is what it does to the level of the competition - when you have third-placed teams qualifying on a group of four, you are rendering near-useless a large part of the competition. The bulk of games in any international competition is in the group stages, yet the big teams need to be truly incompetent not to qualify under the current setup, given how many teams progress in the competition. Hence you have lots of group stage games that are hardly as decisive as they would have been under previous rules. The 4 third-placed teams that qualified in 2016 had a combined total of 3 wins! Very difficult indeed :roll: And that's why I also said that, if you're going to expand, then the very least you could do is change the competition's format.

      Portugal are a case in point with how sh*t they were in the group stage, and how it didn't matter in the end. They did go through with a manic 3-3 draw they had to fight for until the very end, so I'm not saying they planned to draw three games, they surely tried to go for the win. The irony is precisely in the fact that they tried and failed to do so 3 times, against hardly impressive competition (Hungary, Iceland and Austria :lmao:), but still qualified.

      You earn your place in the Euros, as you have to play 8-10 qualifiers over the past 2 years, and playoffs. For the biggest countries qualifying is easy, but for most countries it's always a struggle. It's the hardest international tournament of all to win, and as it has expanded, it's only got more difficult to win, and so England have never won it at all.

      I don't know why you keep mentioning England, I don't care about them at all.

      It's not true it's become more difficult to win though. You have nearly given the big teams a free pass to the knockout rounds by making the group stages poorer in quality (as they now draw from a bigger pool of lower-ranked teams) and easier to qualify (by allowing 4 out of 6 third-placed teams to pass) - which means they only really need to perform in the later stages of the competition. 

      I just don't see much sense in saying that adding sh*t teams to a competition somehow makes it more difficult to win.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: UEFA Euro 2020
      Reply #137: Jun 11, 2021 08:58:04 pm
      Every time, without fail, a international tournament comes around, I let myself get so hyped and then the first game always reminds me how dire international football actually is and I fall right back down to Earth.

      Every time, without fail.

      Haha, the World Cup always excites me no matter how sh*t the opening game might be.

      When I saw Italy were playing the first game of the Euros though, I could hardly bring myself to get excited... and Turkey are not helping!

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