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      Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)

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      AussieRed
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1610: Mar 08, 2021 08:49:13 pm
      This forum should organize a massive Zoom chat, video record it with all of us sending Jürgen a massive Klopp hug.

      I think he would really appreciate a big hug right now!

      He's given us so many huggable moments over the years he's been here, think he needs one back from us!!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1611: Mar 08, 2021 08:51:51 pm
      Here's an interesting article about our form this season compared to last, it backs up my point that we over achieved a bit last season and this decline has been coming for a while: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/03/08/liverpools-slump-biggest-champions-premier-league-history/

      so we over-achieved a bit by winning the league?

      Go ahead I'm sat ready for this beauty!!
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1612: Mar 08, 2021 08:52:02 pm
      Where do knob heads with no connection to our club like that phoney cascarino and Perry groves get off with the sh*te they write, like they have a f**king clue what our club does

      F**k off
      Unfortunately bri it’s F***ing open season
      On our club these days so much so I was half expecting  Oprah to ask Harry & Meghan there opinion on our current situation.thank F**k I no longer have that much to do with the media in any form today so I don’t have to read or listen to there sh*te.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1613: Mar 08, 2021 08:53:18 pm
      This forum should organize a massive Zoom chat, video record it with all of us sending Jürgen a massive Klopp hug.

      I think he would really appreciate a big hug right now!

      He's given us so many huggable moments over the years he's been here, think he needs one back from us!!

      Just send him a crate of Erdinger or some other German booze!! I reckon he needs that more right now ;)
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1614: Mar 08, 2021 08:55:56 pm
      This forum should organize a massive Zoom chat, video record it with all of us sending Jürgen a massive Klopp hug.

      I think he would really appreciate a big hug right now!

      He's given us so many huggable moments over the years he's been here, think he needs one back from us!!
      Send him a few cones mate I’m sure he could do with a Chong these days.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1615: Mar 08, 2021 09:01:12 pm
      I'd love to send him some cones but I'd rather smoke it with him in person!

      What a sesh that would be!!
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1616: Mar 08, 2021 09:06:12 pm
      so we over-achieved a bit by winning the league?

      Go ahead I'm sat ready for this beauty!!

      Read the article, we scored a lot more than our Xg and conceded fewer than the Xg, this year its reversed.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1617: Mar 08, 2021 09:16:18 pm
      Read the article, we scored a lot more than our Xg and conceded fewer than the Xg, this year its reversed.

      Xg?  Christ that is scraping the barrel a bit
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1618: Mar 08, 2021 10:00:57 pm
      Xg?  Christ that is scraping the barrel a bit

      Really, Klopp has a whole team looking at stats like that, don't tell me you are criticising Klopp!
      brilad
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1619: Mar 08, 2021 10:23:45 pm
      It’s a bad run a awful run a clusterfuck of a run that will end!.
      How anyone can even remotely think of removing/sacking JK is quite frankly embarrassing,he assembled and tactically blew everyone away to reclaim something we have waited 30 F***ing years for ffs along with another Big Ears and World Cup .
      Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong for us everything,COVID,massive massive injuries,horrible untimely deaths to the managers Mum and No 1s dad (imagine what that would do to you mentally??)not being able to see your family to grieve or even go to the F***ing funeral ffs.
      The manager has plenty of credit in the bank in my book, so, even if this season is a right off he has mine and any other reasonable Liverpool fans patience.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1620: Mar 08, 2021 10:36:08 pm
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1621: Mar 08, 2021 10:55:21 pm
      Might as well shut down the club in 2024 since we'll never win a trophy again.

      Hyperbole aside, I think when Jürgen goes we are going to struggle if we aren’t making heavy investment year over year.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1622: Mar 08, 2021 11:01:29 pm
      Read the article, we scored a lot more than our Xg and conceded fewer than the Xg, this year its reversed.

      In other news........water is wet!!
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1623: Mar 09, 2021 01:53:50 am
      Hyperbole aside, I think when Jürgen goes we are going to struggle if we aren’t making heavy investment year over year.

      That only depends on the state in which he leaves us. By the time his contract expires in 2024 and he would leave as planned, Alisson, Van Dijk, Matip, Fabinho, Thiago, Hendo, Firmino, Mane and Salah would all be in their low/mid 30s, leaving the team in big need of serious revamp with a lot of aging, expensive players that would not command a whole lot in the transfer market.

      That's why i think, and have said, that in the next 1-3 years the team will undergo a gradual transformation so that when Klopp leaves those players above will have already been phased out or their replacements already be in the squad waiting to take over. If that is the case, then we would just need to gradually change / upgrade every year after Jürgen leaves which would not require "heavy" investment.
      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1624: Mar 09, 2021 09:03:04 am
      Come on Jürgen lad

      Lets go again. Clean shaven bit of a trim fresh look for the rest of the season might bring a change of fortune. And get back being that lunatic belting orders at them 👌

      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1625: Mar 09, 2021 09:30:17 am
      In other news........water is wet!!

      If you are so close minded you won't even bother to read a good article which explains our issues then there really is no point.
      srslfc
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1626: Mar 09, 2021 09:33:36 am
      If you are so close minded you won't even bother to read a good article which explains our issues then there really is no point.

      Be nice if we could read it.

      Behind a pay wall.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1627: Mar 09, 2021 09:58:52 am
      Be nice if we could read it.

      Behind a pay wall.

      ah crap, let me see if I can grab it and post the text directly:


      Liverpool's slump is the biggest by champions in Premier League history - and this is why 
      Jürgen Klopp's team are setting ignominious records but the reasons for their demise are complex

      By
      Daniel Zeqiri
      8 March 2021 • 12:50pm



      Less than a year after delivering Liverpool's first league title for 30 years, Jürgen Klopp's team are making history for all the wrong reasons.

      A 1-0 defeat against Fulham was their sixth consecutive loss at Anfield, a wretched run during which they have scored just one goal. That cascade of defeats was preceded by two home draws, so Liverpool are without a Premier League victory at Anfield since Roberto Firmino scored a stoppage-time winner against Tottenham in December.

      The champions are now eighth on 43 points from 28 games, a lower tally than "The Chosen One"' Manchester United had at the same stage of the 2013-14 season. Having finished 18 points clear of Manchester City last term, Liverpool are now 22 points behind.

      There are strong mitigating factors: Liverpool's dreadful luck with injuries, the condensed schedule of Covid-era football draining a team who rely on intensity, a squad reaching the end of its natural life cycle, some subconscious easing off after reaching their Everest and just plain bad luck.

      Nevertheless, the scale of Liverpool's precipitous decline was hard to foresee and is one of the stories of the season. Here we crunch the numbers to see just how bad things are.

      The biggest ever drop off by a Premier League champion
      Liverpool are 36 points down on the same stage last season, which is the biggest deficit for a defending champion in the Premier League era. The second worst after 28 games was Leicester City in 2016-17, who sacked Claudio Ranieri in February of that season, followed by Chelsea in the 'Mourinho season' of 2015-16 who parted ways with him in December. The next worst was Man Utd under Moyes in 2013-14 when - you might be sensing a pattern here  - they sacked Sir Alex Ferguson's successor before the end of his first season.

      The prospect of Liverpool taking such drastic action is extremely remote, not least because there was nowhere to go but down after their achievements last season. The Leicester comparison is apt here, who also produced a season of over-achievement that was very unlikely to be repeated. Liverpool are a better team and certainly no 5,000-1 outsiders, but they too punched above even their own considerable weight (more on this later).


      At this stage of last season, Liverpool had won 26 of 28 Premier League matches, with their first defeat of the season coming at Watford in their 28th game. It was the best start to a season any team had made in the history of Europe's top five leagues, and they finished with 99 points. Reproducing that consistency was always a long shot. Were last season's Liverpool competing against this season's Man City, Liverpool would be 14 points clear of them. That is the stratospheric level they were at.

      Liverpool do not have the lowest points total of a champion though: Leicester in 2017, Chelsea in 2016 and Blackburn Rovers in 1996 all had fewer points at the same stage.

      Liverpool's performances paint a confusing picture
      Liverpool looked an etiolated husk of the team they once were against Chelsea and Fulham: their first line of defence was bypassed all too easily, the space behind their back four was exploited and their attacking moves in the final third were clunky.

      However, it was only six weeks or so ago that they vanquished Tottenham and West Ham on their own patch with Jordan Henderson at centre-back. Even though they conspired to lose at Leicester thanks to self-inflicted mistakes, Liverpool were also the game's dominant force for 75 minutes at the King Power.

      It seems that there has been a decline within the decline: like the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, there has been one injury too many (the absence of Henderson for example), one defeat too many and their spirit has been ground down.

      Across the season as a whole, Liverpool's numbers are still respectable. They have the league's fourth best attack with 47 goals scored, and the second most productive attack in the Premier League based on expected goals. There have been defensive problems with 36 goals conceded, and an expected goals conceded total of 33 is very much mid-table.

      While most observers have noticed a drop off in intensity due to a truncated pre-season and hectic fixture list, Liverpool's passes per defensive action has increased only marginally from 10.3 to 10.6 this season. Liverpool are taking 15.1 shots per game compared to 15.6 per game last season, 5.3 on target compared to 6.1 They are actually facing marginally fewer shots per game, but are conceding 3.7 shot on target per game compared to 2.9 last season which suggest opposition chances are of higher quality. The drop off is nowhere near as steep as you might expect.


      What needs to be stressed though, is that as good as Liverpool were last season, they enjoyed the fruits of significant over-performance against expectation. In 2019-20, Klopp's team scored 85 goals from an xG total of 69.8 and conceded just 33 from an xG against total of 38.2. Liverpool use their own in-house metrics, and some wondered if the brains trust behind the scenes had devised ways of quantifying chance creation and threat that xG was failing to pick up. That could well be the case, but Liverpool were still benefiting from a hot streak. Things have cooled this season: scoring 47 from 48.2 xG and conceding 36 from 33.3 xG against.

      There is a reason Manchester City started this season as favourites despite finishing 18 points behind last term, and it is mainly down to how strong their metrics were (City had better expected goals numbers at both ends than Liverpool last season). The reversal in fortunes this season is a strong argument for a taking the underlying data seriously.

      Individual errors leading to goals
      The errors leading to goals statistic is slightly contentious because one could argue that every goal scored necessarily involves defensive mistakes. Nevertheless, the statistic collected by Opta can be an interesting indicator. Opta's defines an error as: "When a player makes an error, which leads to a goal or shot conceded. Also used for spills and attempted claims or saves by a goalkeeper which directly leads to a second attempt to score."


      There may be other pieces of poor play that fall outside this definition, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Last season, Liverpool made just five errors leading to goals across 38 league games but this season that tally already stands at nine. Alisson has made three, while there has been one each for Virgil van Dijk, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Adrian, Ozan Kabak, Andrew Robertson and Mohamed Salah. The lack of familiar partnerships at the back must surely be a factor.

      This also links to the point made in the section above about Liverpool being on the wrong end of variance. Mistakes are inevitable in games and across a season, but teams are not always punished for them. Liverpool might be making more mistakes, but they are also being punished readily.

      The form of the front three and Sadio Mane's struggles
      Mohamed Salah, Roberto Firmino and Sadio Mane have been sensational but all three are now 29 years old and some have worried if they have run their course as Liverpool's first-choice trio.

      Much has been made about Firmino's poor shooting technique and lack of composure in front of goal. Again, like several Liverpool statistics, there is no great gulf between Firmino's output last season and this. He has never been a prolific goalscorer: the Brazilian delivered a league goal every 333 minutes in 2019-20 and every 359 minutes in 2020-21. Firmino took three shots per game last season and 2.7 this, and continues to underperform on his 0.4 expected goals per 90 minutes. His shot conversion rate has virtually held steady at 9.4 per cent compared to 9.1 per cent.


      Salah is having an excellent season with a league goal every 133 minutes, the Premier League's top goalscorer on 17, plus three assists. Salah's expected goals per 90 minutes is shade down at 0.5 compared to 0.6 last season, and he is taking advantage of a hot shot conversion rate of more than 20 per cent.

      Where there has been a big reversal is the form of Sadio Mane. Mane is actually taking more shots per game this season and his expected goals per 90 is identical to last season at 0.4. However, he has suffered from a cold spell of finishing, scoring a league goal every 297 minutes this season compared to a goal every 153 minutes last season. You could argue such a spell was in the post given Mane produced an incredible shot conversion rate of 23.4 per cent last season. That has decreased to 10.3 per cent this season and a more modest goal tally is the result.
      RomaN
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1628: Mar 09, 2021 11:35:54 am
      Low to leave the Germany job after the Euros.

      Don't leave us just yet Boss!
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1629: Mar 09, 2021 12:30:54 pm
      Low to leave the Germany job after the Euros.

      Don't leave us just yet Boss!
      The stories are about to get intense and relentless now.
      Davbro
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1630: Mar 09, 2021 12:44:37 pm
      I don't think Klopp would take a national job.  I think he is more interested in club football because of the close knit family style of management he has.
      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1631: Mar 09, 2021 12:45:52 pm
      I don't think Klopp would take a national job.  I think he is more interested in club football because of the close knit family style of management he has.

      i think he would, when the time is right for him, which its not for the exact reason you just highlighted
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)
      Reply #1632: Mar 09, 2021 02:14:12 pm
      The Boss will see out his contract with us, he won’t walk out on us even though some supporters have walked out on him..

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