Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager (Part 2)

HOw can a team or squad which has had so much success lack confidence they know exactly what is needed to win so what the f**k is actually going on.

I think the last week of last season is still fresh in the minds of the players. We were a whisker away from football immortality but it wasn't to be. The manner of it too with City 2-0 down at one point and also Paris where we dominated the game but couldn't score (on the background of the awful things the supporters had to go through). Before, we've bounced back well - losing the title to City and we strolled to the title, lost in Kiev but bounced back in Madrid. This time it seems to be different and it might be because the majority of the squad have won all of it. No one will take away from the fact they've got a CL which many footballing greats don't have or that they were part of the Liverpool team that finally won the league after 30 years so maybe that motivation is lacking now.

The way to counter it is to constantly freshen up your squad, even when you're on top. Get young, hungry players in who want to write their own part of Liverpool history and make themselves greats. Unfortunately we've not been proactive enough in that regard and now we've got an ageing, tired squad that can't seem to play the way the manager wants them to.

Never seen midfield .need to work even harder there and be cleverer something I am not sure he possesses. Why shoehorn him into an unfamiliar position.  If he ain't cutting it he comes out

I'm still not buying the fatigue excuse: You are spot on with the fine lines between success and failure. It is because we are not a bad team that the frustrations are so loud about our form. Trent into midfield is worth experimenting with. He doesn't seem to be a defensive minded player, for all we know he could be as effective as SG in midfield ...as you say it might not appeal to him.

 Mental fatigue, stress,stale, lack of form, whatever it is it is affecting performances. Just a general lack of urgency.
Trent more of a Beckham style rather than SG. Think the Boss is against moving him into mid. It would allow Mo to move inside a bit more. Trent supports Mo as it is but having him in Mid might help Mo overcome his barren run. But we don't know if Trent fancies it. 

Never seen midfield .need to work even harder there and be cleverer something I am not sure he possesses. Why shoehorn him into an unfamiliar position.  If he ain't cutting it he comes out

Well fair enough but I believe Trent started out as a midfield player. Defensively he is shot. It's midfield or the bench for me.

I’ve been saying for ages now, our defensive high line has become vulnerable to the swift through ball into runners, or the long ball over the top.
That wasn’t the case yesterday. We were ‘ played through’ like we were a Div 1 side.
So disappointing. We clearly have to go back to basics and set up so ‘ you will not pass’
I’m also thinking Harvey, Curtis and Diaz are not strong enough or wise enough to be playing together.
There’s often too many touches and turns which slow the attacking momentum down. Millie is clearly past his best and similar for Hendo. One good performance in 3/4 games isn’t good enough,
Trent is overdoing the attacking side of his game, snd gets caught out of position far too often.
VVD is looking scared to make a solid tackle and is standing off players ( probably due to his injury)
The midfield get anxious when it’s not going well and try too hard on the attacking element and don’t offer enough defensive cover to the back 4.
R side of midfield has been Harvey. Not disciplined enough for defensive cover. Millie, to slow, Hendo to slow. R mid is supposed to cover Trent when he goes forward, but Trent doesn’t get back straight away, he moves inside, stays up like a winger, and the midfield settle back into their positions so there’s a big hole where Trent hasn’t got back.
Matip tries to cover that but is often caught in two minds wether to go or sit because he very often has two players to cover.
Not quite so obvious on the left side except for Diaz  not having the defensive discipline.

It seems we need new blood in cm to be more controlling in there, or the current lads need to be more aware of their defensive duties, as well as attacking. I don’t think one defensive mid is enough to cover counter attacks if the other two mids are pushed up to the oppos box.
Most of this can be sorted with more discipline and less hung ho going forwards.

The Trent in midfield has been discussed as you know. Bout 60-40 against it. I think it should be tried but we have no clue re Trent's attitude.

Thing is Trent has been absolutely slated with his defensive mistakes this season within your fan base. Wouldn’t it just make sense to give him a break from it to try and boost his moral by pushing him up to attacking midfield ? He can’t make more mistakes in that position as hes currently doing in defence.

As you know your midfield is pretty bad at the moment and at least you’d have younger legs in there. I’m of the opinion it can’t get any  worse with Trent trying that roll.

Thing is Trent has been absolutely slated with his defensive mistakes this season within your fan base. Wouldn’t it just make sense to give him a break from it to try and boost his moral by pushing him up to attacking midfield ? He can’t make more mistakes in that position as hes currently doing in defence.

As you know your midfield is pretty bad at the moment and at least you’d have younger legs in there. I’m of the opinion it can’t get any  worse with Trent trying that roll.

Agree...What's the worst that could happen, it's not like the others are Zidane's in the making! Also of note, Trent's defensive frailties are likely to increase as he ages and his pace declines ( F**k me he's tortoise slow now)

Agree...What's the worst that could happen, it's not like the others are Zidane's in the making! Also of note, Trent's defensive frailties are likely to increase as he ages and his pace declines ( F**k me his tortoise slow now)

The worse that could happen is put him back so no brainier for me.

The worse that could happen is put him back so no brainier for me.

2-2...mmm..

The Trent debate will rage all week. BTR very often has the last say and can be relied on for insight in between the F'ing..etc

I think it's going to happen sooner or later. At full back he hasn't been getting enough support but he's just not aggressive enough.

Agree...What's the worst that could happen, it's not like the others are Zidane's in the making! Also of note, Trent's defensive frailties are likely to increase as he ages and his pace declines ( F**k me he's tortoise slow now)

He'll be in the World cup squad but the fact that he is behind Trippier is telling. Basically if he can't defend at this level it's midfield or the bench.

I think the last week of last season is still fresh in the minds of the players. We were a whisker away from football immortality but it wasn't to be. The manner of it too with City 2-0 down at one point and also Paris where we dominated the game but couldn't score (on the background of the awful things the supporters had to go through). Before, we've bounced back well - losing the title to City and we strolled to the title, lost in Kiev but bounced back in Madrid. This time it seems to be different and it might be because the majority of the squad have won all of it. No one will take away from the fact they've got a CL which many footballing greats don't have or that they were part of the Liverpool team that finally won the league after 30 years so maybe that motivation is lacking now.

The way to counter it is to constantly freshen up your squad, even when you're on top. Get young, hungry players in who want to write their own part of Liverpool history and make themselves greats. Unfortunately we've not been proactive enough in that regard and now we've got an ageing, tired squad that can't seem to play the way the manager wants them to.

The heartbreaking end of last season has been touted about a fair bit as a factor for this season's drop-off.  Not for me. Top athletes all understand and accept losing is a part of competitive sport, you won't compete if you dwell on past disappointments, even at the scale you are referring to. Also, even if there were one or two in the squad struggling to overcome it, it doesn't explain the malaise throughout the whole side. Another thing is it wouldn't be something that you can switch on and off, you can't be motivated against Man City, or Bournemouth and the next week too traumatised to play against Napoli. If you asked any of the players are you plagued by last season they would say of course not. They, like the rest of us prefer to remember the victories. All your points about refreshing the squad are well made and accurate.

Forget fatigue mental or physical. These lads are physically tested and will have psychologists, they can be "stale" or they can be just not as hungry for success as they once were and if thats the case Jürgen needs to break up this team sooner rather than later. Bill Shankly was often accused of holding on to players out of loyalty the problem Jürgen has is FSG are they prepared to re build at the cost of £300 mil plus.
Once the Genie is out of the bottle its very difficult to get it back in and Jürgen will know from his time at Dortmund how difficult it is once the rot has set in to reverse it.
So Jürgen will have experienced similar times did he learn any lessons from it? 

he could start with leaving Milner at home unless he is sending FSG a message of looking at what he has to work with

Why when he's actually trying. Start with the players that need bollocking first.

Jürgen has to take some blame here.

He called Trent the best right back in the world. That's got to his head.

The 433 is broken.

Salah not being dropped is criminal.

Milner playing is criminal.

I still blame the owners for most of this mess but Jürgen needs to corner some of the blame too.

As do the F***ing players.

I think it's going to happen sooner or later. At full back he hasn't been getting enough support but he's just not aggressive enough.

Definitely not aggressive enough, especially this season.

Jürgen agreed to extend Milner this summer when he was out of contract. Let’s not forget that.

Milner ain't the problem!! He will always give 100%. How about the regulars that need dropping who are giving less than 100%.

Thing is Trent has been absolutely slated with his defensive mistakes this season within your fan base. Wouldn’t it just make sense to give him a break from it to try and boost his moral by pushing him up to attacking midfield ? He can’t make more mistakes in that position as hes currently doing in defence.

As you know your midfield is pretty bad at the moment and at least you’d have younger legs in there. I’m of the opinion it can’t get any  worse with Trent trying that roll.

Who replaces Trent, Gomez has been below par when he's played this season. I don't think he'll throw Ramsey in yet. How about looking at the help he used to get from more mobile players in the past that he's not getting now.

Who replaces Trent, Gomez has been below par when he's played this season. I don't think he'll throw Ramsey in yet. How about looking at the help he used to get from more mobile players in the past that he's not getting now.

You know my thoughts on Gomez. ( similar to yours )  but Trent having such a bad run surly it’s time to at least try something new because it isn’t working for him at the moment. He’s just getting slated every game for his defensive mistakes.

Who replaces Trent, Gomez has been below par when he's played this season. I don't think he'll throw Ramsey in yet. How about looking at the help he used to get from more mobile players in the past that he's not getting now.

fair point..Fabinho getting a free pass when he's been as bad or worse than most.

Milner ain't the problem!! He will always give 100%. How about the regulars that need dropping who are giving less than 100%.

And who do they get replaced with?

My opinion is lack of investment has cost us. This post is not about FSG but that effect the lack of investment has caused.

For me the players who are the problem are:

Trent
Salah
Virgil
Fabinho
Henderson
Milner (age related only).

Trent - He has no one fighting for his spot. He never has to look over his shoulder. The closest guy to him wasn't good enough. He was then sold and downgraded. So the not good enough guy was downgraded. The downgrade may turn out to be amazing as we haven't seen him but that's the issue, Trent hasn't seen him neither. He can do whatever he likes and he will make the next 11.

Salah - He's been sh*t since Afcon. Somehow he got a contract on previous merit. I wanted him gone when his agent was spouting sh*t. Salah telling the media "I'm ready to sign" whilst playing sh*t was a massive put off for me. He, like Trent, has no one competing for his place. He also knows this club will not bench a £350pw player. If we had an able RW we could have experimented with him but the owners decided one player is enough for that position.

Virgil - It's all got to his head. He knows it's always Virgil plus the sidekick. He needs dropping. He doesn't seem the guy that will take the dropping well. Idc how he takes it tbh he can't keep dishing out these performances.

Fabinho - Looks shot and has no genuine DM to compete for his spot. Never has to look over his shoulder. Knows Hendo doesn't work there which leaves no one else to play DM.

Henderson - Time's up. You've been amazing. We have no one to replace him with so he has to continue to play whilst not being good enough. Doesn't have the legs for it anymore and his legs it what masked his faults.

Milner - He's been amazing. Still gives it his all. Couldn't speak higher of him. His time has come to an end. The boss uses him because he doesn't have players for the positions and Milly is a utility man.

That's my opinion on it.

You know my thoughts on Gomez. ( similar to yours )  but Trent having such a bad run surly it’s time to at least try something new because it isn’t working for him at the moment. He’s just getting slated every game for his defensive mistakes.

As I said, he's no longer getting the protection he was getting from midfield (think a more mobile Hendo and someone like Gini who was quick to get about the pitch)

Trent for me is not even the biggest issue, was unlucky not to win the game for us yesterday. Salah's form is even worse.

I was worried by Kloppo's tone after Old Trafford. He sounded downbeat and subdued, as if he'd seen something that really concerned him.

Two thoughts for now. I'm puzzled that the sharpness and accuracy of our play against City in the Shield match has been so lacking since.

I believe that Mané's loss is being felt throughout the team. He so often lifted our level of performance with his ability to collect the ball deep and create danger when none seemed likely.

Trent for me is not even the biggest issue, was unlucky not to win the game for us yesterday. Salah's form is even worse.

Most of the team playing well under par as you know. You put your finger on it as to the reason why yet?