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      Newsies type stories.

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      Isaac!
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #800: Nov 16, 2021 08:57:38 pm
      Oh dear! Who is mentioning business here when the daft and stars are discussing household income?? Such an anoydyne, pre prepared platitude. Again, until you can prove otherwise that the IFS figures are wrong then this one stands.

      The ONS is a far more trustworthy source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/dec/08/politics.socialexclusion

      Us radicals ( the ones who don't regurgitate the anodyne propaganda from the right wing press, oh the irony!) you know, the ones who actually stir things up rather than meekly refuse to cause trouble, have known the Western 'democracies' have stolen trillions of pounds from the working and middle classes and funnelled it to the richest 0.1%. It's what neo-liberalism is all about and it's been going on since the 80's starting with Thatcher and Reagan. When Thatchter was asked what her greatest achievement was she replied, "Tony Blair" You've been suckered mate.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #801: Nov 16, 2021 09:58:10 pm
      The ONS is a far more trustworthy source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/dec/08/politics.socialexclusion

      Us radicals ( the ones who don't regurgitate the anodyne propaganda from the right wing press, oh the irony!) you know, the ones who actually stir things up rather than meekly refuse to cause trouble, have known the Western 'democracies' have stolen trillions of pounds from the working and middle classes and funnelled it to the richest 0.1%. It's what neo-liberalism is all about and it's been going on since the 80's starting with Thatcher and Reagan. When Thatchter was asked what her greatest achievement was she replied, "Tony Blair" You've been suckered mate.

      Wouldn't dare challenge the ONS and I'd happily take that as fact regarding the 1%.

      But this is a different measure we're talking about with redistribution. That shouldn't be hard to understand and though you would have grasped that. And the fact of the matter is, the redistribution via % of income happened.

      And where is the proof of that having having worked? In the aforementioned fact surrounding reduction of child and pensioner poverty (the latter more or less eradicated). Its a fact that those things happened and it's a fact that income redistribution was the direct cause of that success. These aren't disputed.

      Spouting student Marxist petulance about 'neo liberalism' (one of a number of labels the far left like to bandy about without knowing what it means) and decrying bias behind every number you don't like doesn't change that.

      Edit: here's a nice article which shows it better than either of us can explain. (And, oh look, the NS use BOTH IFS and ONS!. Also some charts there from the Family Resources Survey. I await to hear your verdict on where they lie on the free market/neo Liberal spectrum)

      https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2021/10/how-redistributive-was-new-labour

      (awaits FAKE NEWS!!! klaxon)
      « Last Edit: Nov 16, 2021 10:09:06 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      Isaac!
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #802: Nov 16, 2021 10:07:49 pm
      Wouldn't dare challenge the ONS and I'd happily take that as fact.

      But this is a different measure we're talking about. Income and wealth aren't the same thing you know? That shouldn't be hard to understand. And the fact of the matter is, the redistribution via % of income happened.

      And where is the proof of that having having worked? In the aforementioned fact surrounding reduction of child and pensioner poverty (the latter more or less eradicated). Its a fact that those things happened and it's a fact that income redistribution was the direct cause of that success. These aren't disputed.

      Spouting student Marxist petulance about 'neo liberalism' (one of a number of labels the far left like to bandy about without knowing what it means) and decrying bias behind every number you don't like doesn't change that.

      Stop living in your post truth world and try to read more facts rather than twitter opinion. Most of all try to grow up and get real.

      How the hell do you know I don't know anything about neo-liberalism? I've never discussed it here. You're a patronising, bigoted fool who uses arrogance to disguise ignorance. All your condemnations are broad right wing cliches.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #803: Nov 16, 2021 10:10:40 pm
      How the hell do you know I don't know anything about neo-liberalism? I've never discussed it here. You're a patronising, bigoted fool who uses arrogance to disguise ignorance. All your condemnations are broad right wing cliches.

      The only person doing the work of the right wing here is you with your denials on child poverty and pensioner poverty.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #804: Nov 18, 2021 07:27:57 pm
      It seems Mr Rafiq has a few skeletons in his own cupboard particularly antisemitic ones.
      Setting aside the obvious gobshites from YCC its another example of being careful what you put out there because it can comeback and bite you hard years later. This has left him looking rather embarrassed and very apologetic
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #805: Nov 19, 2021 01:36:23 am
      It seems Mr Rafiq has a few skeletons in his own cupboard particularly antisemitic ones.
      Setting aside the obvious gobshites from YCC its another example of being careful what you put out there because it can comeback and bite you hard years later. This has left him looking rather embarrassed and very apologetic

      Not really, you can be an arsehole on some matters and still be discriminated against for other reasons. His faults do not, will not and should not ever be a reason to negate the vile conditions at the YCC.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #806: Nov 19, 2021 07:02:00 am
      Shabs
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #808: Nov 19, 2021 10:25:10 am
      Don’t give him the rise…

      The war is over but to him/her it continues inside its head…


      My place of birth…

      The beacon of the west USA has criminalised same sex marriage, taken away trans & that’s just in the Armed Force’s unless Biden has removed it…

      In Pakistan Transgender are considered a lucky omen & people have them performing at weddings…


      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2021 11:54:02 am by Shabs »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #809: Nov 19, 2021 10:30:50 am

      Whataboutary and deflection


      I’m guessing you approve of the “education” to cure her of her confusion
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #810: Nov 19, 2021 10:31:10 am
      Don’t give him the rise…

      The war is over but to him/her it continues inside his head…

      My place of birth…

      The beacon of the west USA has criminalised same sex marriage, taken away trans & that’s just in the Armed Force’s unless Biden has removed it…

      In Pakistan Transgender are considered a lucky omen & people have them performing at weddings…


      What war ?
      waltonl4
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #811: Nov 19, 2021 10:33:49 am
      Not really, you can be an arsehole on some matters and still be discriminated against for other reasons. His faults do not, will not and should not ever be a reason to negate the vile conditions at the YCC.

      I thought that I made it clear that YCC are arseholes but you have to come to these matters with clean hands or it dilutes the message,
      Salah10
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #812: Nov 19, 2021 12:27:16 pm
      Whataboutary and deflection


      I’m guessing you approve of the “education” to cure her of her confusion

      My opinion isn't in discussion here.

      Islam doesn't agree with Homosexuality. What's the big deal? Not everyone has to be accepting of everyone else's world view.

      What's the shock with the article you posted? A person went to a country where they knew it's  illegal for them to practice their choice of lifestyle and they got arrested. What's so shocking about this?

      I'm not thick headed enough to think everyone in the world must agree with my outlook on life and society. Some countries embrace the LGBT community whilst others reject it, including many western countries.
      UncleBob
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #813: Nov 19, 2021 06:19:29 pm
      My opinion isn't in discussion here.

      Islam doesn't agree with Homosexuality. What's the big deal? Not everyone has to be accepting of everyone else's world view.

      What's the shock with the article you posted? A person went to a country where they knew it's  illegal for them to practice their choice of lifestyle and they got arrested. What's so shocking about this?

      I'm not thick headed enough to think everyone in the world must agree with my outlook on life and society. Some countries embrace the LGBT community whilst others reject it, including many western countries.

      Aye. Discrimination happens in all walks of life. Everywhere.
      For me a trans woman is not a woman. They are trans women. They shouldn’t be allowed to share public toilets or showers with women. Everything else is pretty much whatever.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #814: Nov 19, 2021 06:25:32 pm
      My opinion isn't in discussion here.

      Islam doesn't agree with Homosexuality. What's the big deal? Not everyone has to be accepting of everyone else's world view.

      What's the shock with the article you posted? A person went to a country where they knew it's  illegal for them to practice their choice of lifestyle and they got arrested. What's so shocking about this?

      I'm not thick headed enough to think everyone in the world must agree with my outlook on life and society. Some countries embrace the LGBT community whilst others reject it, including many western countries.


      It’s simple - someone’s choice on who they want to be and how they want to live their own life is being decided by a religion and the laws of that religion

      People should be free to live how they want , love who they want and be who they want


      If a man feels that he wants to love another man then he should be free to express that


      If a man feels they should be a women they should be free to make that choice


      They should not be persecuted for it , arrested for it and they certainly shouldn’t be “educated “ on how they feel

      It doesn’t matter what the religion is it’s a disgrace in a modern world that someone can be who they want to be and imo is shows how Islam as a religion is so far stuck in the past - that includes how they treat women , homosexuals and transgenders. If the only response to that is to deflect it onto another religion imo is trying to say “well others do it”
      UncleBob
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #815: Nov 19, 2021 06:38:57 pm

      It’s simple - someone’s choice on who they want to be and how they want to live their own life is being decided by a religion and the laws of that religion

      People should be free to live how they want , love who they want and be who they want


      If a man feels that he wants to love another man then he should be free to express that


      If a man feels they should be a women they should be free to make that choice


      They should not be persecuted for it , arrested for it and they certainly shouldn’t be “educated “ on how they feel

      It doesn’t matter what the religion is it’s a disgrace in a modern world that someone can be who they want to be and imo is shows how Islam as a religion is so far stuck in the past - that includes how they treat women , homosexuals and transgenders. If the only response to that is to deflect it onto another religion imo is trying to say “well others do it”

      The only choices we have are the ones given to us. It doesn’t matter if it’s a religion or a nations laws.
      You can disagree with the laws if you want, but ultimately nobody will ever be happy.
      But discrimation is all around us. In some countries gays can’t get married in a church. Transgenders can’t be seen in public. Unvaccinated can’t go to the cinema.

      Salah10
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #816: Nov 19, 2021 07:20:14 pm

      It’s simple - someone’s choice on who they want to be and how they want to live their own life is being decided by a religion and the laws of that religion

      People should be free to live how they want , love who they want and be who they want


      If a man feels that he wants to love another man then he should be free to express that


      If a man feels they should be a women they should be free to make that choice


      They should not be persecuted for it , arrested for it and they certainly shouldn’t be “educated “ on how they feel

      It doesn’t matter what the religion is it’s a disgrace in a modern world that someone can be who they want to be and imo is shows how Islam as a religion is so far stuck in the past - that includes how they treat women , homosexuals and transgenders. If the only response to that is to deflect it onto another religion imo is trying to say “well others do it”

      The problem with what you just said there is the word "free". In no society are people free to do what they want and love who they want.

      What if a man is in love with his biological brother? By UK law, in the "free" land, this is illegal. Should this now be legalised? Because you said people should be free to love who they want, regardless of what the state or society have to say about it.

      Also, how can you comment on a religion that you have no knowledge of?

      I have a direct question for you since you feel you're qualifed enough to pass judgement over the religion of Islam. How many rakat in wudu?

      I await your answer.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #817: Nov 19, 2021 07:29:56 pm
      The problem with what you just said there is the word "free". In no society are people free to do what they want and love who they want.

      What if a man is in love with his biological brother? By UK law, in the "free" land, this is illegal. Should this now be legalised? Because you said people should be free to love who they want, regardless of what the state or society have to say about it.

      Also, how can you comment on a religion that you have no knowledge of?

      I have a direct question for you since you feel you're qualifed enough to pass judgement over the religion of Islam. How many rakat in wudu?

      I await your answer.


      So people are no longer allowed to comment on the negatives of a religion ( any religion ) ?

      I have no idea what a rakat or wudu is but what I do have is friends and colleagues who have been killed or crippled by people in the name of religion - in this case Islam
      Salah10
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #818: Nov 19, 2021 07:37:38 pm

      So people are no longer allowed to comment on the negatives of a religion ( any religion ) ?

      I have no idea what a rakat or wudu is but what I do have is friends and colleagues who have been killed or crippled by people in the name of religion - in this case Islam

      And I have friends who have been killed or crippled in the name of democracy.

      Right well if you have no idea about the basic question, that a 5 year old muslim can answer, then your opinion on Islam is uneducated, unqualified and nonsense.

      No one will take me seriously if I pass judgement of Jürgen Klopps tactics whilst not even understanding the offside rule or, even more simple, how many players on each team.

      I don't know where you people get off justifying to yourselves the permission to pass judgement over a whole subject without even the most simple basic understaning of that subject.

      Answer my incest question please, don't dodge it.

      I said.....

      What if a man is in love with his biological brother? By UK law, in the "free" land, this is illegal. Should this now be legalised? Because you said people should be free to love who they want, regardless of what the state or society have to say about it.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #819: Nov 19, 2021 07:50:26 pm
      And I have friends who have been killed or crippled in the name of democracy.

      Right well if you have no idea about the basic question, that a 5 year old muslim can answer, then your opinion on Islam is uneducated, unqualified and nonsense.

      No one will take me seriously if I pass judgement of Jürgen Klopps tactics whilst not even understanding the offside rule or, even more simple, how many players on each team.

      I don't know where you people get off justifying to yourselves the permission to pass judgement over a whole subject without even the most simple basic understaning of that subject.

      Answer my incest question please, don't dodge it.

      I said.....

      What if a man is in love with his biological brother? By UK law, in the "free" land, this is illegal. Should this now be legalised? Because you said people should be free to love who they want, regardless of what the state or society have to say about it.
      Not sure how you can compare democracy to religion. 🤷‍♂️


      And again my opinion on a religion is based on what I witness - just my opinion on Catholic religion because of the sexual abuse by priests. It’s called free speech.

      Being with a family member including brother and sister is legal in many countries 🤷‍♂️

      If someone loves someone that way then no issue with me 🤷‍♂️
      Salah10
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      • 503 posts | 103 
      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #820: Nov 19, 2021 08:01:40 pm
      Not sure how you can compare democracy to religion. 🤷‍♂️


      And again my opinion on a religion is based on what I witness - just my opinion on Catholic religion because of the sexual abuse by priests. It’s called free speech.

      Being with a family member including brother and sister is legal in many countries 🤷‍♂️

      If someone loves someone that way then no issue with me 🤷‍♂️

      So the UK isn't free then? As it's illegal here. Seems the UK is "backwards" then.

      You're free to say what you want about anything but it's regarded as bullshit because it's uneducated.

      Learn about a subject before publicly passing judgement on it. The internet gave birth to self declared professors like you. Before if a man wanted to pass judgement on a subject, publicly,  he'd have to write a book and show he has knowledge on the matter. Now you get guys like you that just come along and pass judgement because you watched a 15 min spesh on BBC or a few Tommy Robinson videos.

      I compared religion to democracy because it's a belief that's been spread with the sword and MILLIONS have been murdered under furthering this belief.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #821: Nov 19, 2021 08:07:41 pm
      So the UK isn't free then? As it's illegal here. Seems the UK is "backwards" then.


      No one said it was 🤷‍♂️

      Quote

      You're free to say what you want about anything but it's regarded as bullshit because it's uneducated.

      So when someone kills someone else under the name of a religion people are not allowed to be critical of it 🤷‍♂️

      Quote
      Learn about a subject before publicly passing judgement on it. The internet gave birth to self declared professors like you. Before if a man wanted to pass judgement on a subject, publicly,  he'd have to write a book and show he has knowledge on the matter. Now you get guys like you that just come along and pass judgement because you watched a 15 min spesh on BBC or a few Tommy Robinson videos.
      I learned enough about the subject by witnessing the workings of said religion and how it has affected many peoples lives - people don’t have to “study” everything about something to have an opinion on it

      Quote
      I compared religion to democracy because it's a belief that's been spread with the sword and MILLIONS have been murdered under furthering this belief.

      Going back to the crusades 🤷‍♂️ Was that also not about religion and spreading gods word 🤷‍♂️
      Salah10
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #822: Nov 19, 2021 08:22:31 pm

      Reply #822: Today at 08:21:27 pm

       Quote (selected) Modify Remove

      Quote from Lallana in Pyjamas on Today at 08:07:41 pm


      I can't quote like you so I'll go old school, copy and paste your quotes.

      You said,

      No one said it was 🤷‍♂️



      Well tell me which country "free" then?


      You said,

      So when someone kills someone else under the name of a religion people are not allowed to be critical of it 🤷‍♂️



      So where's your criticism of democracy and the millions murdered in the name of spreading it? Be consistent. Call out all those babies murdered in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Palestine, Algeria, Mali and more in the name of "free" democracy.

      Remember when the white man murdered black people for over 400 years? You calling that out or you wasn't there so it doesn't matter? Start at home before pointing fingers!

      Stop worrying about Malaysia not accepting transgenders and start worrying about your country bombing the sh*t out of innocent people around the world whilst taxing the sh*t out of its own citizens.


      You said,

      I learned enough about the subject by witnessing the workings of said religion and how it has affected many peoples lives - people don’t have to “study” everything about something to have an opinion on it


      But you don't even know the basics of the religion you've publicly dismissed as being backwards, oppressive and evil.

      At least provide some evidence, from Islamic sources, to back up your claims. If you can't do that then you're useless and your opinion is about as relevant as trying to discuss the false 9 position with my mrs.


      You said,

      Going back to the crusades 🤷‍♂️ Was that also not about religion and spreading gods word 🤷‍♂️



      Again, you can have an opinion but it's bullshit. It's like me not knowing the offside rule and trying to discuss why Trent should play further

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #823: Nov 19, 2021 08:31:37 pm
      Reply #822: Today at 08:21:27 pm

       Quote (selected) Modify Remove

      Quote from Lallana in Pyjamas on Today at 08:07:41 pm


      I can't quote like you so I'll go old school, copy and paste your quotes.

      You said,

      No one said it was 🤷‍♂️



      Well tell me which country "free" then?


      You said,

      So when someone kills someone else under the name of a religion people are not allowed to be critical of it 🤷‍♂️



      So where's your criticism of democracy and the millions murdered in the name of spreading it? Be consistent. Call out all those babies murdered in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Palestine, Algeria, Mali and more in the name of "free" democracy.


      Babies murdered 🤷‍♂️

      And I believe democracy is the way the world should be and have no issues with people fighting for democracy?

      Quote
      Remember when the white man murdered black people for over 400 years? You calling that out or you wasn't there so it doesn't matter? Start at home before pointing fingers!

      Do we need to call out the crimes and horrific actions of the past when calling out the crimes of the present ?


      Quote
      Stop worrying about Malaysia not accepting transgenders and start worrying about your country bombing the sh*t out of innocent people around the world whilst taxing the sh*t out of its own citizens.


      Bombing the sh*t out of innocent people ? Which innocent people is the UK bombing the sh*t out of as you suggest

      Quote

      You said,

      I learned enough about the subject by witnessing the workings of said religion and how it has affected many peoples lives - people don’t have to “study” everything about something to have an opinion on it


      But you don't even know the basics of the religion you've publicly dismissed as being backwards, oppressive and evil.

      At least provide some evidence, from Islamic sources, to back up your claims. If you can't do that then you're useless and your opinion is about as relevant as trying to discuss the false 9 position with my mrs.

      Are the Al Qeada , ISIS and the Taliban good enough Islamic sources for you ? And their actions over the last couple of decades ?
      Quote
      You said,

      Going back to the crusades 🤷‍♂️ Was that also not about religion and spreading gods word 🤷‍♂️



      Again, you can have an opinion but it's bullshit. It's like me not knowing the offside rule and trying to discuss why Trent should play further


      Sorry I’m not sure how that’s relevant to the crusades 🤷‍♂️
      Shabs
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      Re: Newsies type stories.
      Reply #824: Nov 19, 2021 08:37:13 pm
      Wonder how England was created..On the back of who’s blood & wealth… ? 🤔

      Poor f**ker must be suffering from PTSD, still fighting that war…

      Probably misses shooting kids, raping women, droning families… 🙄
       Must get a kick out of hurting defenceless people.. must make him proud ..

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