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      Voting closed: Sep 21, 2019 09:55:38 pm

      Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      CT_LFC
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #414: Sep 18, 2019 04:57:11 pm
      If Napoli is so good, why aren't they European champions? It's not that they're good. It's because we gave them a chance.

      Call me cocky but that's the truth.

      So there's only 1 good team in the CL every year? FFS
      LFC007
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #415: Sep 18, 2019 05:38:59 pm
      In Klopp's mind its still his best midfield pairing away from home, someone really needs to snap him out of that idea, its a major blind spot for him. 

      Your Argument rests on the premise that Klopp doesn't see the obvious. What are the odds? I think you misjudge the value of a "boring" - but defensive stable - midfield in comparison to a fancy one that lacks discipline and defensive attention.
      jabv
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #416: Sep 18, 2019 05:51:41 pm
      We were poor for our usual standards, but they were F***ing gash. If Mane doesn't overhit that 2 on 1 situation and we get the first goal, im fairly confident we end up carving them on the counter for a good 0-2 or 0-3. As is stands, that didn't happen, they got a fairly questionable pen and then VVD had somewhat of a brain fart, so the score reads 2-0. It happens. Replay this game and we should win it more often than not. Away from home, too. So all in all I am not terribly concerned. It's not like we got played out of the park.

      Personally I felt like it was evident that we sorely need the influence of either Keita or the Ox, especially when our front 3 isn't clicking as usual.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #417: Sep 18, 2019 08:09:41 pm
      Quote from brezipool
      We will win all of our home games, and win at least 1 away game, thats 12 points. Plenty to go through.

      With 10 minutes left last night, we thought we would get a good result. It's all very well saying we will beat them, but they still have to be won. I believe we will make it, but there's still a lot of work to do to get there.
      saille29
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #418: Sep 18, 2019 08:44:40 pm
      Wrong place but, VAR ! PSG v Real, Bale scores a great goal but it touched his arm enter VAR ref looks at the pitch side screen, no goal WTF, so that's clear and obvious
      redtiler
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #419: Sep 18, 2019 09:54:28 pm
      We have won 1 of our last 7 group games away from home, a 7-0 win. Going away to win in Europe, is not like going away to Bournemouth. These are teams that are used to winning games and getting results at their ground. They wouldn't be in this competition if they didn't.

      We were warned last night, that Salzburg in particular are going to be a more awkward hurdle than expected. Especially if we have to go there needing a result on the last night. So there can't be any complacency on the road, like there was in Belgrade last year for example. Plus all these sides have extra motivation against us, given our current status. So we have to go out there and do a professional job. The fixture list in the group is not favourable, and we've started off having to make up ground. Hopefully it won't go down to needing a result in Salzburg, but atm, we may need it.

      On first viewing, the penalty looked clearcut. With some replays it looks less so. However, there was contact. The VAR was asked if there was contact, and he said there was, so the decision stood. The second goal was more of a mistake by the defence in general. Robbo and VVD were both out of position, Robbo and Matip didn't track the forward's run nor make any attempt to stop him. It puts us 0-2 down against them on aggregate, and a lot of work to do if we're to beat them on the head to head in November. One mistake in the group is recoverable, any more and this group gets a lot more complicated than it looked when the draw was made.

      AussieRed
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #420: Sep 19, 2019 02:45:14 am
      AussieRed
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #421: Sep 19, 2019 02:49:42 am
      Not fussed about yesterday, Don't get me wrong, I hate losing, it feels weird and I'm not used to it all.

      Having said that, we didn't deserve to be on the end of that scoreline. We played well for lots of the game, just didn't convert our 3/4 chances we got.

      They on the other hand, get a late penalty that for the life of me, I still can't understand why and why it didn't go to the VAR and then concede a sloppy second trying to chase the draw. Robbo and Adrian had time to get to that ball but inexplicably decided to wait for each other.


      Look out Chelsea we coming to you, to get the Napoli game out of our system!

      heimdall
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #422: Sep 19, 2019 08:14:58 am
      Wrong place but, VAR ! PSG v Real, Bale scores a great goal but it touched his arm enter VAR ref looks at the pitch side screen, no goal WTF, so that's clear and obvious

      Yes apparently a ball ever so slightly brushing an arm is a clear and obvious error but a player diving isn't. It is absurdly inconsistent. I think the distinction here is that the ref has to be 100% completely wrong in awarding a penalty for it to be overturned, ie it would have to be a Harry Kane type of dive with zero contact from the defender. I think that is wrong use of the technology, I think in the case of penalties VAR has to take precedence over the on field ref with him having a look at his screen if there is any doubt at all about his decision as penalties are so important in altering the course of a game, as we saw.
      brezipool
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #423: Sep 19, 2019 10:21:42 am
      Yes apparently a ball ever so slightly brushing an arm is a clear and obvious error but a player diving isn't. It is absurdly inconsistent. I think the distinction here is that the ref has to be 100% completely wrong in awarding a penalty for it to be overturned, ie it would have to be a Harry Kane type of dive with zero contact from the defender. I think that is wrong use of the technology, I think in the case of penalties VAR has to take precedence over the on field ref with him having a look at his screen if there is any doubt at all about his decision as penalties are so important in altering the course of a game, as we saw.

      Completely agree re. VAR.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #424: Sep 19, 2019 01:22:00 pm
      ??? A challenge to get into a knockout stages, based on what, us losing yesterday to a very good team away from home over a soft penalty decision when we were in complete control of the game?
      If we can't beat Salzburg and Genk home and away then I agree it will be tricky again but I simply can't see that happening. With a bit more focus and luck yesterday we would have won the match quite easily I think.

      I said we were the better side but losing does put pressure on. Given the pressure to maintain our league form with all the obvious problems that might occure I think it's not unreasonable to suggest getting into the C/L knockout stage will present problems.I also said we can overcome these challengers and qualify.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #425: Sep 19, 2019 01:34:35 pm
      Looking like it will have to be a really bad error by the Ref  for VAR to overturn the on field decision. But surely the point and main advantage of VAR in the first place is that the panel have 2/3 angles of the incident to decide, plus reruns and slo mo. The Ref obviously has only one angle plus the Ass.Ref.

      Suppose in one sense the integrity of the game, the spontaneity must take precedence. The balance isn't quite right at the moment. One the other hand if we had benefited we wouldn't be moaning.
      heimdall
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #426: Sep 19, 2019 02:09:24 pm
      I said we were the better side but losing does put pressure on. Given the pressure to maintain our league form with all the obvious problems that might occure I think it's not unreasonable to suggest getting into the C/L knockout stage will present problems.I also said we can overcome these challengers and qualify.

      We lost our toughest fixture in the group and we only lost because of a bullshit penalty decision, if it wasn't for that then we would have won or drawn that match . If you honestly think that Salzburg or Genk will get more points than us then you are in cloud cuckoo land.
      heimdall
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #427: Sep 19, 2019 02:13:15 pm
      Looking like it will have to be a really bad error by the Ref  for VAR to overturn the on field decision. But surely the point and main advantage of VAR in the first place is that the panel have 2/3 angles of the incident to decide, plus reruns and slo mo. The Ref obviously has only one angle plus the Ass.Ref.

      Suppose in one sense the integrity of the game, the spontaneity must take precedence. The balance isn't quite right at the moment. One the other hand if we had benefited we wouldn't be moaning.

      So was the ball brushing Bale without deviating a clear and obvious error then whilst some tosspot player diving wasn't? btw if it was the other way around then I'd still be questioning the system.

      I think all Penalties need to be looked at by the ref if there is any doubt at all and clearly in this case there was.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #428: Sep 19, 2019 03:53:58 pm
      Again, as explained by Peter Walton on BT, it has to be a clear and obvious error. By that they mean a total F**k up, and this was just a bit naive. Naive from the ref to fall for it (he should know the game situation and the player involved) and naive from our man for flicking out and giving the ref a decision to make.

      If that was given as a dive and a yellow, VAR would have kept it as such. The referees first decision makes a huge difference on the outcome.

      Personally I think it's all bollocks and designed to save the referees arse.

      If I was the ref I’d be raging my mistake was allowed to stand I think
      RedWilly
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #429: Sep 19, 2019 05:27:14 pm
      So was the ball brushing Bale without deviating a clear and obvious error then whilst some tosspot player diving wasn't? btw if it was the other way around then I'd still be questioning the system.

      I think all Penalties need to be looked at by the ref if there is any doubt at all and clearly in this case there was.

      I think all penalty shouts given or otherwise should be considered. There are a handful of penalty shouts a game, so wouldn’t slow the game any more than the niggling timewasting fouls in the middle of the park.

      Good system, utilized terribly so far.
      Tayls
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #430: Sep 19, 2019 06:06:16 pm
      So was the ball brushing Bale without deviating a clear and obvious error then whilst some tosspot player diving wasn't? btw if it was the other way around then I'd still be questioning the system.

      I think all Penalties need to be looked at by the ref if there is any doubt at all and clearly in this case there was.

      I think the difficulty there is that it's not subjective as to whether a ball has hit a hand. The call for the disallowed Bale goal was right by the letter of the law because it is controlled, very very slightly, by his hand. Although we all agree it was a dive by the Napoli lad, calling it one way or another is subjective and therefore open to interpretation. I don't necessarily fully agree with the handball rule but it does at least mean, in theory, there will be consistency with handball decisions.

      The trouble with the system at the moment for me is what constitutes a "clear and obvious" error from the referee. We've seen, particularly with the Premier League implementation, that VAR is very wary of overruling the on field referee, to the extent where something most people would describe as "clear and obvious" is just completely ignored. Haller being fouled against Norwich is the obvious example. Positively PGMOL did admit to this error amongst some others:

      https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11807734/var-premier-league-referee-chief-mike-riley-admits-four-mistakes-this-season

      Good system, utilized terribly so far.

      Think this sums it up nicely RW!

      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #431: Sep 19, 2019 06:34:45 pm
      I don't necessarily fully agree with the handball rule but it does at least mean, in theory, there will be consistency with handball decisions.

      There’s no consistency with it all; John Stones clear handball in his own box - nothing given. Laporte has the ball brush his arm in the Spurs box - goal ruled out. Bale had the ball hit his arm, fair enough you’d think but they bang on about whether your arm is in an unnatural position or not, which Bale’s wasn’t and he didn’t really gain any advantage from it.

      VAR is just sh*t. It’s taken what was already sh*t officiating for years and just complicated it further.

      The decision that went against us for the penalty, it won’t be the the last time that happens. There will be plenty more decisions like that for teams. Pogba got a penalty for United a few weeks back in similar fashion.

      It makes what was already an undeserved defeat seem even worse.
      Tayls
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #432: Sep 19, 2019 07:19:46 pm
      There’s no consistency with it all; John Stones clear handball in his own box - nothing given. Laporte has the ball brush his arm in the Spurs box - goal ruled out. Bale had the ball hit his arm, fair enough you’d think but they bang on about whether your arm is in an unnatural position or not, which Bale’s wasn’t and he didn’t really gain any advantage from it.


      Well, I did say in theory. One of the many rules IFAB changed this season means a goal scored or created after the ball has touched an attacking players hand is ruled out, accidental or not. So Bale's technically had to be ruled out according to the letter of the law, just like the Laporte one. That does favour the defending team, as you can get away with more, just like Stones did. Maybe it's not a great law but it is at least clear (supposedly) in how it should be implemented - but as we've seen VAR can't even get that right either, so it is a mess at the moment.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #433: Sep 19, 2019 11:35:58 pm
      Quote from AussieRed
      Not fussed about yesterday, Don't get me wrong, I hate losing, it feels weird and I'm not used to it all.

      Not used to it? We have lost three games against them in the past 12 months, conceding six. What do you still have to get used to? Nobody said they were delighted to get Napoli again when the draw was made. They're a serious bogey side now.

      I hope the fans that were ambushed will be ok. When they are, I hope the club look after them in the mad scramble for tickets to Istanbul if we get there.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #434: Sep 19, 2019 11:40:21 pm
      Not used to it? We have lost three games against them in the past 12 months, conceding six. What do you still have to get used to? Nobody said they were delighted to get Napoli again when the draw was made. They're a serious bogey side now.

      Take the friendly out of the equation, we've lost twice over there and beaten them over here just like we'll do again. Stop fretting... and bogey side, my arse!!

      Billy1
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #435: Sep 20, 2019 09:09:25 am
      Take the friendly out of the equation, we've lost twice over there and beaten them over here just like we'll do again. Stop fretting... and bogey side, my arse!!



      I totally agree with you.
      heimdall
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      Re: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #436: Sep 20, 2019 09:40:47 am
      Take the friendly out of the equation, we've lost twice over there and beaten them over here just like we'll do again. Stop fretting... and bogey side, my arse!!



      You could certainly say its a bogey ground for us now, hope to F**k there is never a final played there.

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