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      Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      heimdall
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #325: Sep 28, 2019 06:23:56 pm
      Eh?

      Henderson spent much of his game covering TAA, and Wijnaldum the same for Robertson.

      Our creativity comes from the FB's pushed up high.

      How do people not understand this after all this time.

      Does that mean we deliberately don't want creativity in midfield?
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #326: Sep 28, 2019 06:35:29 pm
      Eh?

      Henderson spent much of his game covering TAA, and Wijnaldum the same for Robertson.

      Our creativity comes from the FB's pushed up high.

      How do people not understand this after all this time.
      What ? So your saying they were covering the full backs who were not making an impression so dont change it then ? Just keep getting nowhere ?
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #327: Sep 28, 2019 06:37:42 pm
      Does that mean we deliberately don't want creativity in midfield?

      Yep just leave it all to the FBs and when they draw a blank let's leave our Midfield the same  :mad:
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #328: Sep 28, 2019 07:17:32 pm
      We take all our chances and that would of been a stroll today. We all know there are those games like that in the league were you just have to win ugly. Another three points. That'll do for me.
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #329: Sep 28, 2019 07:33:12 pm
      What ? So your saying they were covering the full backs who were not making an impression so dont change it then ? Just keep getting nowhere ?

      Have you spent over 4 years watching Klopp's teams and still not understood how we play?

      He did change it, he brought Origi on, and when that happened TAA didn't get forwards as much.

      Seriously?
      You don't know how Klopp sets his teams up?
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #330: Sep 28, 2019 07:36:31 pm
      Have you spent over 4 years watching Klopp's teams and still not understood how we play?

      He did change it, he brought Origi on, and when that happened TAA didn't get forwards as much.

      Seriously?
      You don't know how Klopp sets his teams up?

      Which is what I alluded to in my original post that you are allowed to change it against low block teams . Concentrate on reading posts before you spout your condescending  sh*te
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #331: Sep 28, 2019 07:48:23 pm
      Which is what I alluded to in my original post that you are allowed to change it against low block teams . Concentrate on reading posts before you spout your condescending  sh*te

      You didn't "allude" to anything, you just don't know how we play.
      Our midfielders are essentially defenders a lot of the time.
      The system is to push the FB's past the MF then use the MF as support for the attacka and to protect the space behind the FB, looking for overloads in wide area's to draw men out of the centre to create more space.

      Unbelieveable.

      No wonder there's so many sh*t posts about the midfield not being creative.
      It seems that even after all this time, a fair few simply don't understand the system.
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #332: Sep 28, 2019 08:05:34 pm
      You didn't "allude" to anything, you just don't know how we play.
      Our midfielders are essentially defenders a lot of the time.
      The system is to push the FB's past the MF then use the MF as support for the attacka and to protect the space behind the FB, looking for overloads in wide area's to draw men out of the centre to create more space.

      Unbelieveable.

      No wonder there's so many sh*t posts about the midfield not being creative.
      It seems that even after all this time, a fair few simply don't understand the system.
      Please dont preach  to me . Why do you not  reply to others posts? To spell it out as I understand I realize that the FBS get forward so much the Midfiield act as cover but when the FBS struggle to get much joy like today they can step back and allow more creation whether an extra winger or a more attacking and creative midfielder  ie Keita or Ox as we  can afford it as the FBs not as adventurous and then cover the  change . Has this finally sunk in Slab ?
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #333: Sep 28, 2019 08:10:22 pm
      Think a game like today would have been ideal for Keita.

      Said before the game that when the fixtures were released it was this game and Leicester away I was dreading most so I don’t know why I’m still so surprised that I end up getting so frustrated with the performance. We all know we are so much better than we were today but you cant be brilliant all the time, you just have to score more goals and once again we’ve managed that. It wasn't a glamorous 8-0 win but if City was offered a win like this vs Norwich then they’d have happily taken it. There was a time not so long ago that in a game like this, we wouldn’t have gotten the break through and we’d know that would be the case, but now as we have proven plenty of times in this 16 game run, until the final whistle has gone, we are capable of a goal regardless of how bad we may be playing.

      Something we’ve been lacking in our wins is a clean sheet and today we managed that so it’s another positive we can take into the next game.

      Vital 3 points in the bag once again.

      Final note, so much for us struggling for wins when VAR was to be used. Once again we’ve proven we will still win even when it’s not giving us a clear penalty.
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #334: Sep 28, 2019 08:22:05 pm
      Please dont preach  to me . Why do you not  reply to others posts? To spell it out as I understand I realize that the FBS get forward so much the Midfiield act as cover but when the FBS struggle to get much joy like today they can step back and allow more creation whether an extra winger or a more attacking and creative midfielder  ie Keita or Ox as we  can afford it as the FBs not as adventurous and then cover the  change . Has this finally sunk in Slab ?

      And that's exactly what Klopp did.
      He made a change, but to create an overload on the left, which was how the goal came. about, from Origi creating extra pressure on their right.

      So why were you banging on about the midfield "not being creative" if you knw full well they sit behind the FB, and moan about not making changes when the change he made lead directly to the goal?

      Has this finally sunk in?
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #335: Sep 28, 2019 08:27:17 pm
      You didn't "allude" to anything, you just don't know how we play.
      Our midfielders are essentially defenders a lot of the time.
      The system is to push the FB's past the MF then use the MF as support for the attacka and to protect the space behind the FB, looking for overloads in wide area's to draw men out of the centre to create more space.

      Unbelieveable.

      No wonder there's so many sh*t posts about the midfield not being creative.
      It seems that even after all this time, a fair few simply don't understand the system.

      You say "unbelievable" but your comments that our midfield defends..goes without saying, all midfielders are expected to defend at times. Nearly all successful teams teams since the 80's have FB's that bomb on being supported by 1/2 midfielders. Fairly basic stuff really.

      I said with Fabinho now nailed on as the holding player with Hendo more advanced.I said he needs to be more influential. No secret that Hendo lacks a bit of imagination. I also said will our midfield be creative enough.By that I meant will they get those quick intelligent balls in a bit quicker to give the flair players a chance to get clear in a bit of space.

      Creative, in the sense of seeing the pass early, a bit quicker and seeing runs a bit quicker. Don't think that is any surprise.All teams need to improve on that score.

      I think that is one of the reasons Klopp is looking at Shag as a forward thinking creative midfielder rather than his staying wide. Nobody said we have no creativety. I alluded to that at times in mid we run out of ideas and end up playing it along the back 4..which in turn put Mo and Bob on the back foot a bit.
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #336: Sep 28, 2019 08:29:05 pm
      And that's exactly what Klopp did.
      He made a change, but to create an overload on the left, which was how the goal came. about, from Origi creating extra pressure on their right.

      So why were you banging on about the midfield "not being creative" if you knw full well they sit behind the FB, and moan about not making changes when the change he made lead directly to the goal?

      Has this finally sunk in?

      I never mentioned that the change didnt work as it clearly helped ie my point about change and enough time to make an impact . When I say creative I dont necessarily  mean someone who can pass through the eye of a needle it could be someone more direct I.e Origi or it could mean someone who may pick the ball up deeper and commit players by running at them I.e Ox  .
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #337: Sep 28, 2019 08:38:03 pm
      I never mentioned that the change didnt work as it clearly helped ie my point about change and enough time to make an impact . When I say creative I dont necessarily  mean someone who can pass through the eye of a needle it could be someone more direct I.e Origi or it could mean someone who may pick the ball up deeper and commit players by running at them I.e Ox  .

      This is what you posted:
      Yep against the Citys and Spurs etc dont mind today's Midfield  but against deep lying defenders definitely  need more creation at times or at least off bench early enough to make an impact

      Then you say you know our MF's are not meant to be creative, and that the change worked.

      Can you see why I'm confused about what you're trying to say?
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #338: Sep 28, 2019 08:49:18 pm
      This is what you posted:
      Then you say you know our MF's are not meant to be creative, and that the change worked.

      Can you see why I'm confused about what you're trying to say?

      Against the top 6 who generally  dont play a low block or sit as much then I agree with that midfield as it gives our FBs the best protection when they play so offensively. However when teams sit more and thwart them I feel we  could change things in Midfield with players more offensively minded . Last point by the way as I am losing the will to live explaining myself tbh
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #339: Sep 28, 2019 08:54:54 pm
      You say "unbelievable" but your comments that our midfield defends..goes without saying, all midfielders are expected to defend at times. Nearly all successful teams teams since the 80's have FB's that bomb on being supported by 1/2 midfielders. Fairly basic stuff really.

      I said with Fabinho now nailed on as the holding player with Hendo more advanced.I said he needs to be more influential. No secret that Hendo lacks a bit of imagination. I also said will our midfield be creative enough.By that I meant will they get those quick intelligent balls in a bit quicker to give the flair players a chance to get clear in a bit of space.

      Creative, in the sense of seeing the pass early, a bit quicker and seeing runs a bit quicker. Don't think that is any surprise.All teams need to improve on that score.

      I think that is one of the reasons Klopp is looking at Shag as a forward thinking creative midfielder rather than his staying wide. Nobody said we have no creativety. I alluded to that at times in mid we run out of ideas and end up playing it along the back 4..which in turn put Mo and Bob on the back foot a bit.

      No, I said our midfielders are essentially defenders, a different thing entirely.

      It's all very well sitting there saying we need x or y, but yet again, a poster fails to take into account some important things.
      1) is our high line, where the 2 CB are in the opponents half, which means the play is very compressed, which means there is no room for threaded passes, and where the chances come from creating overloads in wide positions, which drags opposition players out of the middle. This can also be exploited by switching play quickly to the other flank.

      2) is the fact tht in many games Henderson is not really "more advanced"; he just ppers to be becuse we are playing so high. His primary responsibility, like Gini or Milner is to drop in behind the FB. Henderson does this on the right (gini or Milner on the left)
      When the play goes down the left, Henderson is free to push up a bit more, and come more central.
      The same applies to Gini or Milner on the left.

      3) It's a completely different system to the "full backs bombing on" 442 of old, and is obviously far from basic if you can't understand that, because they don't "bomb on", they are attackers.
      Teams have a set number of attackers and defenders for optimum play.
      Our system has 3 forwrd attackers, 2 FB's and sometimes an extra midfielder if the other team have been pushed deep enough.
      So normally, 5 defenders, and 5 attackers, occasionally, 6.

      4) The high line we play allows us to dominate possession in the opponents half, win the ball back early and quickly, and create chances through sustained pressure.

      If you really think that our system is in any way similar to the 442 with attacking FB's then you re completely wrong.

      This is very basic stuff, and yet you don't seem to understand it.
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #340: Sep 28, 2019 08:57:26 pm
      Against the top 6 who generally  dont play a low block or sit as much then I agree with that midfield as it gives our FBs the best protection when they play so offensively. However when teams sit more and thwart them I feel we  could change things in Midfield with players more offensively minded . Last point by the way as I am losing the will to live explaining myself tbh

      This doesn't make sense to me either.

      If you know that our MF are essentially defenders (mostly) how does a defensive player become more offensive whilst retaining our shape and system?

      You just keep contradicting yourself, so I can't be arsed.
      LFC007
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #341: Sep 28, 2019 09:03:25 pm
      Klopp just doesn't value methodical attack or a creative midfield (unlike Pep and City). He wants a pressing midfield that essentially acts as a first defensive wave, trying to conquer balls to use the forward movement of the opponent for counterattack. This works but it doesn't look bossy like City's style, but it's not a beauty contest here.

      That said I still think Ox and Keita are better than Jordan/Gini, so it's a matter of time and not reinjuring and I see both start.

      Anyway, our team is cruising right now, no reason to b*tch about anything.
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #342: Sep 28, 2019 09:04:08 pm
      This doesn't make sense to me either.

      If you know that our MF are essentially defenders (mostly) how does a defensive player become more offensive whilst retaining our shape and system?

      You just keep contradicting yourself, so I can't be arsed.
      A change to the shape or system maybe ie today what f**king planet are you on ?
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #343: Sep 28, 2019 09:11:08 pm
      Last season in the period where we lost our gap on City we drew against United and Everton, Klopp was reluctant to change midfielders for forwards.

      Perhaps those teams had more of a cutting edge when the game became open and Klopp was weary of that, but I wonder if it's a change of policy.

      I said after about an hour that we may want to stretch the game and risk losing in order to win. Origis impact made it end to end and both teams had more chances.

      2 draws gets 2 points and a win and a loss is 3. I think it's well worth the risk at this stage of the season to be willing to lose in order to win.

      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #344: Sep 28, 2019 09:17:14 pm
      A change to the shape or system maybe ie today what f**king planet are you on ?

      So you want us to change the system that saw us rack up 97 points and win the CL last season, and has us with 100% record this season.

      Riiiight.

      And you ask what planet I'm on?

      F***ing hell.
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #345: Sep 28, 2019 09:22:58 pm
      Last season in the period where we lost our gap on City we drew against United and Everton, Klopp was reluctant to change midfielders for forwards.

      Perhaps those teams had more of a cutting edge when the game became open and Klopp was weary of that, but I wonder if it's a change of policy.

      I said after about an hour that we may want to stretch the game and risk losing in order to win. Origis impact made it end to end and both teams had more chances.

      2 draws gets 2 points and a win and a loss is 3. I think it's well worth the risk at this stage of the season to be willing to lose in order to win.

      It took us a few minutes to adjust alright, but most of their attacks came down our right, and it was a clear tactic from them to have players high and wide, and also use them to press, which we didn't deal with particularly well after Henderson went off.

      I don't think of Klopp as someone who is averse to risk taking, but given we failed to win the league by 2 points, I reckon he's keen to try and force games where in a league without a city type team, he'd be happy with a point.
      So, perhaps a bit less pragmatism and a bit more "f**k it, we'll go for it"
      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #346: Sep 28, 2019 09:24:37 pm
      So you want us to change the system that saw us rack up 97 points and win the CL last season, and has us with 100% record this season.

      Riiiight.

      And you ask what planet I'm on?

      F***ing hell.

      I am referring to today in that it was changed as it wasnt working . Do you not think replacing Henderson with Origi is a change in style and shape which ever way you look at it a more offensive player replaced a more defensive minded player . Give me f**king strength
      Swab
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #347: Sep 28, 2019 09:31:18 pm
      I am referring to today in that it was changed as it wasnt working . Do you not think replacing Henderson with Origi is a change in style and shape which ever way you look at it a more offensive player replaced a more defensive minded player . Give me f**king strength

      System.
      It stayed pretty much the same.

      You don't need strength fella, you need to stop contradicting yourself.
      6stringer
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #348: Sep 28, 2019 09:34:44 pm
      Uncomfortable to watch that today.
      I honestly thought we'd batter them :-[

      Massive 3 points.





      rossyred
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      Re: Sheffield United 0-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #349: Sep 28, 2019 09:36:55 pm
      System.
      It stayed pretty much the same.

      You don't need strength fella, you need to stop contradicting yourself.

      Did it ? Really ? So I expect to see Origi used in a midfield 3 more often then  as he can fit into the same system that never changes  :lmao:

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