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      The Election

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      Shabs
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #575: Dec 18, 2019 01:03:15 am
      Watching John Pilgers report on ITV..The Dirty War on the NHS. After 5 years of "piccanninies" Johnson the NHS will be finished. It will be a privatly owned organisation.

      The Vultures are circling..

      Telling why it was not allowed to air before the election.. 🤔
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #576: Dec 18, 2019 08:28:58 am
      Agreed - it's not impossible but it's extremely difficult.

      Let's say at the next general election in 2025 Labour achieve a landslide of seat wins in the same manner as they did under Tony Blair in 1997. Labour won 145 new seats at that election taking their overall seat figure to 418 and a majority of 167 (an eye watering total and still the biggest majority in post war Britain!). It would have to take as dramatic a shift as that to win next time and even then it would only be a slim, but perfectly governable, majority of over 40. (if we took Labour's current 202 seats and added a 1997 like figure of 145 to them they'd be on 347).

      Its simply not going to happen though is it. Labour are currently running around in small circles blaming everyone but themselves. The attack on the media is really silly. The print media is currently pro-Tory but it hasn't always been this way, under Blair most print media backed him so they will tend to go with what is popular in the country and that is certainly not Corbyn or Labour. In TV though its a very different picture where the majority of channels are very pro Remain and consequently anti-Tory, especially BBC and Channel 4. In any case blaming the media in an age of social media is quite pathetic, there are so many ways of getting a message across, unfortunately the Labour message was far to muddled and far to radical for the UK's taste. This country has never been really socialist and hopefully it never will be.
      As for the future Labour should elect someone like Lisa Nandy, a moderate from the North, but they won't, they'll elect SIR Keir Starmer or Rebecca Long-Bailey, those double barrel names and knighthoods will really resonate with working class people I'm sure as will sticking to Corbynist radical socialist policies!
      TameImpala
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #577: Dec 18, 2019 08:37:44 am
      they'll elect SIR Keir Starmer or Rebecca Long-Bailey, those double barrel names and knighthoods will really resonate with working class people I'm sure as will sticking to Corbynist radical socialist policies!

      What a load of shabbite. Long-Bailey is the daughter of a Salford docker & her deputy would be Angela Rayner, a trade unionist from Stockport. Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson's name didn't stop him from winning any votes
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #578: Dec 18, 2019 08:40:01 am

      and who will force the UK government to accept this, thereby cutting trade with the bigger EU market or you, the consumer, to buy it? This is just scare stories form the pro-Tory BBC!!!!

      One thing, which many people seem to misunderstand, is that the UK does NOT need a US trade deal, its not dependent on it at all. We currently have a trade surplus with the US as opposed to the trade deficit we have with the EU. Of course a trade deal would be nice to have but its not like we are doomed without it so we are not in a powerless position to accept anything the US suggests.

      Its the same with the NHS and all those absurd claims form the Russian dossier Corbyn was waving about, why on earth would the UK government agree to pay more for drugs than it currently does, the NHS is a very very big international customer for drugs company and has a hell of a lot of leverage in negotiations, its certainly not going to willingly overpay.

      One final point on privatisation of the NHS, if it remains free at the point of use whilst delivering at least the same level of service, but prob much better, then what is the issue with parts of it being given over to private companies who can run it better than it currently is? One  of the biggest issues with the NHS is not a lack of money it is terrible mismanagement, for example how can it be justified that there are as many management and admin roles as there are doctors and nurses?
      The main goal has to be to provide the best service possible and if Private companies can manage things better, and its bloody hard to see how they wouldn't, then what is the issue with that?
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #579: Dec 18, 2019 08:44:11 am
      What a load of shabbite. Long-Bailey is the daughter of a Salford docker & her deputy would be Angela Rayner, a trade unionist from Stockport. Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson's name didn't stop him from winning any votes

      OK then go with continuity Corbyn and best of luck, whether the Tories have Labour or the Liberals as the main opposition is no big issue for me, I'm just basking in finally having a strong Conservative government again, I now know how you guys felt in 1997.

      For what its worth this talk of a right wing Tory government is utter crap, this government will be fairly centrist, in social issues and will be good for the whole country.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #580: Dec 18, 2019 08:49:59 am
      OK then go with continuity Corbyn and best of luck, whether the Tories have Labour or the Liberals as the main opposition is no big issue for me, I'm just basking in finally having a strong Conservative government again, I now know how you guys felt in 1997.

      For what its worth this talk of a right wing Tory government is utter crap, this government will be fairly centrist, in social issues and will be good for the whole country.



      "Basking" in having this man as PM
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #581: Dec 18, 2019 09:03:53 am


      "Basking" in having this man as PM

      Was that quote made by Boris himself, No it wasn't, so that's a bit naughty isn't it. In any case Boris has since apologised on multiple occasions for being the Editor which let that crap be printed.

      Has Corbyn ever apologised for inviting representatives of the IRA into the House of Commons just a few days after they tried to kill all members of the government?
      TameImpala
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #582: Dec 18, 2019 09:13:27 am
      Was that quote made by Boris himself, No it wasn't, so that's a bit naughty isn't it. In any case Boris has since apologised on multiple occasions for being the Editor which let that crap be printed.

      Has Corbyn ever apologised for inviting representatives of the IRA into the House of Commons just a few days after they tried to kill all members of the government?

      Published it as an EDITORIAL when he was the EDITOR. Some "apology" as well, as he jokingly dubbed it 'Operation Scouse Grovel'

      And I don't know - has your hero Thatcher apologized for negotiating with the IRA, or for granting a secret pardon to a convicted IRA months after they tried to blow up her own party?
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #583: Dec 18, 2019 09:25:04 am
      Published it as an EDITORIAL when he was the EDITOR. Some "apology" as well, as he jokingly dubbed it 'Operation Scouse Grovel'

      And I don't know - has your hero Thatcher apologized for negotiating with the IRA, or for granting a secret pardon to a convicted IRA months after they tried to blow up her own party?

      Any link to that "fact" about Thatcher, honestly don't know about this.
      Shabs
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #584: Dec 18, 2019 10:55:41 am
      Long-Bailey as leader & Rayner as her deputy..

      Dream ticket for me..
      althebest1
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #585: Dec 18, 2019 11:44:56 am
      And David Milliband rides back into town to shift back to the centre.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #586: Dec 18, 2019 11:52:10 am
      Long-Bailey as leader & Rayner as her deputy..

      Dream ticket for me..

      me as well, continuity Corbyn, that will be a real vote winner!
      Harrisimo
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #587: Dec 18, 2019 12:43:21 pm
      and who will force the UK government to accept this, thereby cutting trade with the bigger EU market or you, the consumer, to buy it? This is just scare stories form the pro-Tory BBC!!!!

      One thing, which many people seem to misunderstand, is that the UK does NOT need a US trade deal, its not dependent on it at all. We currently have a trade surplus with the US as opposed to the trade deficit we have with the EU. Of course a trade deal would be nice to have but its not like we are doomed without it so we are not in a powerless position to accept anything the US suggests.

      Its the same with the NHS and all those absurd claims form the Russian dossier Corbyn was waving about, why on earth would the UK government agree to pay more for drugs than it currently does, the NHS is a very very big international customer for drugs company and has a hell of a lot of leverage in negotiations, its certainly not going to willingly overpay.

      One final point on privatisation of the NHS, if it remains free at the point of use whilst delivering at least the same level of service, but prob much better, then what is the issue with parts of it being given over to private companies who can run it better than it currently is? One  of the biggest issues with the NHS is not a lack of money it is terrible mismanagement, for example how can it be justified that there are as many management and admin roles as there are doctors and nurses?
      The main goal has to be to provide the best service possible and if Private companies can manage things better, and its bloody hard to see how they wouldn't, then what is the issue with that?

      The issue with private companies running services is that they obviously do it for profit and the profit motive is their first priority. And they strive to maintain or increase profits year on year. Having service and quality to the patients way down on your list does a disservice to the NHS. There is a place for private companies within the NHS.Nobody really denies that but it has to be in the services that are as far away from patient care as possible.

      Trade surplus or not this current government will strike deal with the US and they will weaken workers rights, lower regulation, have lower tax  scrutinisation policy. Will accept lower standards. Not bend over backwards but make the deal with the US as favourable and as profitable as possible for them. A Tory government is as wedded to the profit motive much more than Corbyn or McDonnell are to socialist doctrine....and are far more damaging to the general population.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #588: Dec 18, 2019 01:15:08 pm
      Was that quote made by Boris himself, No it wasn't, so that's a bit naughty isn't it. In any case Boris has since apologised on multiple occasions for being the Editor which let that crap be printed.

      Has Corbyn ever apologised for inviting representatives of the IRA into the House of Commons just a few days after they tried to kill all members of the government?

      Didn't exactly want to come to Liverpool to apologise did he?

      Wasn't he sent by Liverpool-supporting Michael Howard?

      That's the only apology I remember and it wasn't exactly contrite, just done for political reasons!!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #589: Dec 18, 2019 01:18:28 pm
      Any link to that "fact" about Thatcher, honestly don't know about this.

      Why do the Conservative party actually have a former active member of the IRA in the form of Cllr Maria Gatland within their ranks?

      How come you never once slagged her off considering the sh*te you've thrown at Corbyn over him being an "IRA Supporter"

      Does that not make you a bit of a hypocrite?

      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #590: Dec 18, 2019 01:23:41 pm
      The issue with private companies running services is that they obviously do it for profit and the profit motive is their first priority. And they strive to maintain or increase profits year on year. Having service and quality to the patients way down on your list does a disservice to the NHS. There is a place for private companies within the NHS.Nobody really denies that but it has to be in the services that are as far away from patient care as possible.

      Trade surplus or not this current government will strike deal with the US and they will weaken workers rights, lower regulation, have lower tax  scrutinisation policy. Will accept lower standards. Not bend over backwards but make the deal with the US as favourable and as profitable as possible for them. A Tory government is as wedded to the profit motive much more than Corbyn or McDonnell are to socialist doctrine....and are far more damaging to the general population.

      Yes profit is a motive for a private company but if they do not deliver a good service then their contract will be revoked so its very much in their interest to operate in a good way and get customer satisfaction both from the government and the patients.

      Why will the UK weaken worker rights when worker rights in the UK are already higher than the EU, I don't see the logic of that? I also don't understand why its assumed that the UK will strike a deal with the US if it leads to the UK harming its trading position with the EU, its a wrong assumption, the UK firstly does not need a trade deal with  the US and secondly is in a strong position to negotiate one.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #591: Dec 18, 2019 01:24:52 pm
      Why do the Conservative party actually have a former active member of the IRA in the form of Cllr Maria Gatland within their ranks?

      How come you never once slagged her off considering the sh*te you've thrown at Corbyn over him being an "IRA Supporter"

      Does that not make you a bit of a hypocrite?



      again I was not aware of that, do you have as many links to that as you did your previous assertions?

      Hee it is I did your work for you, https://fullfact.org/online/conservative-councillor-former-ira/

      Its interesting, but I imagine that she has since denounced the IRA in a slightly more forceful way than Corbyn ever has.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #592: Dec 18, 2019 01:26:59 pm
      again I was not aware of that, do you have as many links to that as you did your previous assertions?

      Try using google you lazy c**t!
      Harrisimo
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #593: Dec 18, 2019 01:34:14 pm
      On the term.."wool"..I always thought it was short for wooliback and was generally a derogatory term used to describe Welsh people. Then it was widened to include anybody, who wasn't a LFC fan, from outside the City.

      People from Liverpool being called scousers come from the local dish, basically a lamb hotpot.

      The other orientation of the word scouser is said to have come from London dockers, would you believe. As the ships approached the Liverpool docks, in particular, the Albert Dock, which had very high waterfront buildings (still the same skyline today)....the London seafarers would say..."comin' in to the sky'ouses now.." meant as the made up word Skyhouses...and over the years that was derived into the word "scousers".

      So the term derived from "Skyhouses"....to "Scousers".....that's that one cleared up then...!
      Harrisimo
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #594: Dec 18, 2019 01:42:48 pm
      again I was not aware of that, do you have as many links to that as you did your previous assertions?

      Hee it is I did your work for you, https://fullfact.org/online/conservative-councillor-former-ira/

      Its interesting, but I imagine that she has since denounced the IRA in a slightly more forceful way than Corbyn ever has.

      Corbyn has condemed IRA violence. He just advocated talking to them.Creating a dialogue to end the violence and find some sort of solution. The Tory government and Labour did have talks with the IRA but it was done in secret.Corbyn has always been a man who rightly prefers jaw jaw rather than war war. He also prefers NEED over GREED...and that's why he's hated by the Tories...he'll cost them a few quid.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #595: Dec 18, 2019 02:00:49 pm
      On the term.."wool"..I always thought it was short for wooliback and was generally a derogatory term used to describe Welsh people. Then it was widened to include anybody, who wasn't a LFC fan, from outside the City.

      People from Liverpool being called scousers come from the local dish, basically a lamb hotpot.

      The other orientation of the word scouser is said to have come from London dockers, would you believe. As the ships approached the Liverpool docks, in particular, the Albert Dock, which had very high waterfront buildings (still the same skyline today)....the London seafarers would say..."comin' in to the sky'ouses now.." meant as the made up word Skyhouses...and over the years that was derived into the word "scousers".

      So the term derived from "Skyhouses"....to "Scousers".....that's that one cleared up then...!

      Thanks, that was interesting to learn.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #596: Dec 18, 2019 02:05:26 pm
      Corbyn has condemed IRA violence. He just advocated talking to them.Creating a dialogue to end the violence and find some sort of solution. The Tory government and Labour did have talks with the IRA but it was done in secret.Corbyn has always been a man who rightly prefers jaw jaw rather than war war. He also prefers NEED over GREED...and that's why he's hated by the Tories...he'll cost them a few quid.

      If Corbyn had got to implement his socialist utopia it wouldn't have been the rich who had to pay for them, well not unless you consider anyone earning over £25k per year rich. You see as soon as he got to power 2 very important groups of people would have fled the country, the Jews and the Billionaires, shortly followed by millionaires and any other high earners. Once those people have left, and yes they very much would leave, who would then pick up the tab, businesses, nope they'd relocate as well, especially with all the Brexit uncertainty and a PM who has no idea if he wants to leave or remain. In short the country would be completely fu**ed for decades so thank your lucky stars that its The hated Tories in charge rather than loony Labour.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #597: Dec 18, 2019 02:07:24 pm
      Corbyn has condemed IRA violence. He just advocated talking to them.Creating a dialogue to end the violence and find some sort of solution. The Tory government and Labour did have talks with the IRA but it was done in secret.Corbyn has always been a man who rightly prefers jaw jaw rather than war war. He also prefers NEED over GREED...and that's why he's hated by the Tories...he'll cost them a few quid.

      I'd like to think that Corbyn is just incredibly naive but the unchecked spread of antisemitism in the Labour party points to a leader who is either complicit or a hopelessly weak leader, either way the country wisely decided he was unfit for high office.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #598: Dec 18, 2019 02:14:56 pm
      I'd like to think that Corbyn is just incredibly naive but the unchecked spread of antisemitism in the Labour party points to a leader who is either complicit or a hopelessly weak leader, either way the country wisely decided he was unfit for high office.

      Oh god please stop pretending like you care about anti-semitism. If you were so arsed about racism & bigotry you'd condemn Johnson for using the N word in a book he published, you'd condemn him for describing jews as "hook nosed" and "money grabbers" in the same book, you'd condemn him for describing muslim women as "letterboxes" you'd condemn him for saying he finds young black men "threatening" you'd condmen him for describing black people as "picannines with watermelon smiles" you'd condemn him for describing gay people as "tank topped bum boys". All of which you haven't. Alls you've done is condemn Corbyn (a lifelong anti-racism campaigner and a man who has himself been arrested for protesting apartheid) for supposed racism.

      Fair enough vote conservative, nobody can stop you. but don't try and pretend there was some sort of liberal motive behind your vote
      « Last Edit: Dec 18, 2019 02:19:45 pm by TameImpala »
      heimdall
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      Re: The Election
      Reply #599: Dec 18, 2019 02:24:56 pm
      Oh god please stop pretending like you care about anti-semitism. If you were so arsed about racism & bigotry you'd condemn Johnson for using the N word in a book he published, you'd condemn him for describing jews as "hook nosed" and "money grabbers" in the same book, you'd condemn him for describing muslim women as "letterboxes" you'd condemn him for saying he finds young black men "threatening" you'd condmen him for describing black people as "picannines with watermelon smiles" you'd condemn him for describing gay people as "tank topped bum boys". All of which you haven't. Alls you've done is condemn Corbyn for supposed antisemitism.

      Fair enough vote conservative, nobody can stop you. but don't try and pretend there was some sort of liberal motive behind your vote

      I actually think Boris does say some incredibly stupid things from time to time but I do NOT think he is racist or homophobic, he has however worked as a journalist most of his life and was known for his colourful use of language which on occasion was completely inappropriate and which he has apologised for.
      As far as I know the Jewish population in this country do not have the same issue with Boris as they do with Corbyn, ask yourself why that is, perhaps just perhaps its not just a smear campaign against Corbyn. A few days before the election I was talking to a few Jewish friends who were genuinely terrified at the prospect of Corbyn gaining power, they were also bitterly disappointed that the EHRC report had not been published before the election, by all accounts it paints a damning picture of a once proud party!

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