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      Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      sore monad
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #500: Nov 03, 2019 04:17:51 pm
      I actually thought that that VAR was computer controlled, I had no idea you had some referee with a clear bias against Liverpool just drawing random lines until he finds one that makes a Liverpool goal offside!

      Anyway there is a very simple solution to this, make it computer controlled using AI etc and measure offside on relative hip position, that is the only fair way to do it, not armpit versus knee ffs!

      Yeah ditto, thought it was some sophisticated computer program, Not Martin Atkinson drawing lines wherever the hell he feels like it. His vertical line comes down about 3 feet to Bobby's left. (And doesn't even look exactly vertical.)
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #501: Nov 03, 2019 04:29:18 pm
      Seems Tamie Impala's banner he posted on one of the threads has been doing the rounds on facey by Liverpool groups praising it at Viĺla Park yesterday.

      Good work fella!
      DanMann
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #502: Nov 03, 2019 04:34:14 pm

      Love that.

      We need more of this, and the officials need to come out and explain their actions. This is corruption.
      Shabs
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #503: Nov 03, 2019 04:43:21 pm
      adammac
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #504: Nov 03, 2019 08:05:29 pm
      I enjoy these games where the boys pull it off in the late minutes and we know if we want to win the league there will be a few times over the course of the season we will need to do this but I hope this going down one does not become a habit. We do need to get back into the habit of clean sheet which we saw a lot more last season.

      As for the game I thought we played decent, worked the ball into good area's but the final ball was awful as we didn't create a whole whack of chances unlike the Spurs game. Salah was having one of those games wear nothing was going for him where every shot he took was a mile over the net and felt Gini was missing all the match. Thought that Lallana and Firmino had good showing, both full backs provided threat and Mane shown his class again coming up with the goods. I really enjoyed that ding ball to Robbo on the first goal, keeps doing that his assist total will be up there in no time.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #505: Nov 04, 2019 12:23:59 am
      I enjoy these games where the boys pull it off in the late minutes and we know if we want to win the league there will be a few times over the course of the season we will need to do this but I hope this going down one does not become a habit. We do need to get back into the habit of clean sheet which we saw a lot more last season.

      As for the game I thought we played decent, worked the ball into good area's but the final ball was awful as we didn't create a whole whack of chances unlike the Spurs game. Salah was having one of those games wear nothing was going for him where every shot he took was a mile over the net and felt Gini was missing all the match. Thought that Lallana and Firmino had good showing, both full backs provided threat and Mane shown his class again coming up with the goods. I really enjoyed that ding ball to Robbo on the first goal, keeps doing that his assist total will be up there in no time.

      Agree that it does seem I've heard Jürgen say a number of times post-match that we didn't start well or whatever.  Better starts are likely an area the coaches have targeted for improvement going forward.
      adammac
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #506: Nov 04, 2019 02:27:38 am
      Agree that it does seem I've heard Jürgen say a number of times post-match that we didn't start well or whatever.  Better starts are likely an area the coaches have targeted for improvement going forward.


      It is funny when you think when Klopp first came we did the opposite, we use to come out of the gate buzzing then slow down as the game went on. Just need to find the best of both worlds.
      CINERE KOPITES
      • Forum Ronny Rosenthal
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      Re: Live: Aston Villa V Liverpool
      Reply #507: Nov 04, 2019 08:12:37 am
      I haven't watched this as I am at my dad's side in Arrowe Park Hospital. He's dying here, literally, and know what? This game, we had to win, for him. I would've hated for the last Liverpool game of his life to have ended in defeat.

      Sorry to be depressing but f**king hell, it's got me emotional, that.

      Get the f**k in.

      YNWA

      get well soon to your daddy mate, your dad must be happy to hear the result,
      ynwa
      TameImpala
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #508: Nov 04, 2019 08:49:27 am
      Seems Tamie Impala's banner he posted on one of the threads has been doing the rounds on facey by Liverpool groups praising it at Viĺla Park yesterday.

      Good work fella!

      Can't take credit for the banner unfortunately! Was made by a lad I follow on Twitter - brilliant though wasn't it - Hopefully see a few more over the next 4 or so weeks!
      TameImpala
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #509: Nov 04, 2019 08:59:55 am
      It's a shame that a such an gripping and dramatic win was overshadowed by plantpot referees & their stupid toy once again.

      Something really needs to happen to Atkinson after this, his performance manning the VAR Saturday & then his refereeing performance in the Everton game Sunday was abysmal beyond belief. Although I'm not holding my breath on any action being taken because refereeing seems more and more like an old boys club every week
      Tayls
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #510: Nov 04, 2019 10:42:05 am
      It's a shame that a such an gripping and dramatic win was overshadowed by plantpot referees & their stupid toy once again.

      Something really needs to happen to Atkinson after this, his performance manning the VAR Saturday & then his refereeing performance in the Everton game Sunday was abysmal beyond belief. Although I'm not holding my breath on any action being taken because refereeing seems more and more like an old boys club every week

      Seems to be brushed under the carpet as usual. Wouldn't hold your breath waiting for anything, as you say the f**ker was out there making more sh*t decisions the very next day. That said it's so obviously wrong I don't really get how Atkinson can justify it, and I'd like to hear him try. Like Kamara said in that video above, putting aside where the 'line' should be taken from (i.e. maybe not the armpit...), the line itself isn't straight anyway! It's either a perfect example of Atkinson's bias against us, or a sign of his diminishing mental faculties, because I don't know how a unbiased, completely sane referee can end up with that abomination of a decision.

      Anyway, the game itself was a bit crap but yet another example of our determination. Don't mind getting all the LFC hating neutrals excited that we might drop points, only to score two and win all three.  :D
      heimdall
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #511: Nov 04, 2019 12:05:59 pm
      He's clueless.

      Been on ignore since his first few posts.

      Utter drivel, and wum attempts is all I ever see when people quote him.

      Its not drivel, he is for once 100% correct, we have to get better at finishing our chances and also provide more of an attacking threat for the middle. If Klopp does not realise this then he's an idiot (WHICH OF COURSE HE ISN'T) as we can't rely on winning matches in the last few minutes every time, that relies far to much on a bit of good fortune, BUT I'm 100% certain that Klopp does see this and will tweak his system. We simply have to drop one of Hendo and Gini and start playing Ox, Keita or Lallana to give us some more drive and attacking threat as relying only on the front three is a recipe for disaster, all good teams score plenty of goals from midfield.
      DanMann
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #512: Nov 04, 2019 12:17:30 pm
      There was a guy on Twitter trying to explain the technical side of it all, and how the VAR decision was correct based on the centre of gravity of Firmino.. didn't really make a lot of sense to me. From every shot I've seen, he is onside.

      Don't see how Atkinson can be excused for that.

      Here you go. Make of this what you will..

      https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1191042293081530368
      heimdall
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #513: Nov 04, 2019 12:33:39 pm
      There was a guy on Twitter trying to explain the technical side of it all, and how the VAR decision was correct based on the centre of gravity of Firmino.. didn't really make a lot of sense to me. From every shot I've seen, he is onside.

      Don't see how Atkinson can be excused for that.

      Here you go. Make of this what you will..

      https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1191042293081530368

      To many different tweets, can you please tell me how he explained that the lines got redrawn to show Bobby as offside?
      Mickred
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #514: Nov 04, 2019 01:25:37 pm
      Brilliant win, let's hope VAR does not come back to haunt us on Sunday.

      Teams must be concerned about facing us, we just never give up and scoring so late is the sign of a good side.  Forget fergie time it is now Klopps time!!!

      CMON YOU REDMEN
      TameImpala
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #515: Nov 04, 2019 01:34:48 pm
      To many different tweets, can you please tell me how he explained that the lines got redrawn to show Bobby as offside?

      Basically a footballing equivalent of the "Single Bullet Theory"
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #516: Nov 04, 2019 01:39:29 pm
      Quote from Harrisimo
      Got to stop these last gasp deals.Gunner go belly up sooner or later.

      When?

      Scoring in the last minute counts the same as scoring in the first minute. It doesn't matter when they come, as long as they do. If that means scoring in Kloppotime, that's fair enough.

      Quote
      Playing players who are 85-90% fit is risky and with our crowded schedule may be the Boss should have a little more faith and indeed flexibility in selecting  Ox, Nabby and Origi.

      I thought when Naby ran the show at Palace early last season, he would be an ideal replacement for Can. Sadly it just hasn't happened. The language barrier doesn't help him either. He looks a fish out of water on the pitch, when he's fit enough to play on it, totally reliant on Sadio for info and guidance.

      Divock is good for a rescue job, but beyond that, he just doesn't cut it unfortunately. The thing is, we're told that Salah is fit to play these games, but evidently he isn't yet. We need him next week.

      As for Sadio himself, he was on a yellow for a long time and with Moss around, he could have gone if he got a challenge wrong in the centre circle in the second half, with catastrophic implications for next week. Moss is notoriously fond of dishing out red cards when we're in town. Thankfully, he waved play on, and the rest is history.

      Quote from heimdall
      I actually thought that that VAR was computer controlled, I had no idea you had some referee with a clear bias against Liverpool just drawing random lines until he finds one that makes a Liverpool goal offside!

      In case it's forgotten, the original decision was offside. So if we didn't have VAR, the original decision would stand anyway and it couldn't be checked.

      Atkinson didn't draw the line. I understand there's 3 people at the VAR hub. The VAR, his assistant VAR, and a replay operator for the pitchside screen. The lines are drawn by the assistant afaik. Atkinson then interprets the info on the screen and informs the ref what the verdict is. We won the game anyway, so it doesn't matter now in the grand scheme of things. Unlike 12 months ago when a perfectly valid goal at Arsenal was ruled out and we only got one point, which was the gap at the end of the season. 

      We have 4 more points now than we had then. It always looked like a long afternoon, which it was. It also looked like one of those days when the ball just wouldn't go in, for love nor money. But it did, and when you don't put men on posts when defending corners, you can't complain when the ball sails into the unguarded net.

      Next week, it will be a different game. We are unbeaten in 46 home games, and 16 years at home against City. I'm sure we'll come out ready to get stuck into that ragball defence, and send out a strong statement to those who still question us. Getting ahead of myself I know, but I reckon a 9 point lead, (with the prospect of a 12 point margin before they play again) should give them plenty to reflect on during the break.
      GERNS
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #517: Nov 04, 2019 01:49:46 pm
      What’s all this about the centre of gravity. Wherever your centre of gravity is, your foot can be further forwards or backwards relative to the counter balance of your arms/body.
      All smoke and mirrors to me, trying to defend an inept system or incompetent bias individuals.
      sore monad
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #518: Nov 04, 2019 02:52:32 pm
      There was a guy on Twitter trying to explain the technical side of it all, and how the VAR decision was correct based on the centre of gravity of Firmino.. didn't really make a lot of sense to me. From every shot I've seen, he is onside.

      Don't see how Atkinson can be excused for that.

      Here you go. Make of this what you will..

      https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1191042293081530368

      Ok, think I follow that. So the key thing to look at in the images there is the fine dotted black horizontal line. Where that line meets the red vertical line from Bobby's armpit is where the offside is determined.

      But there are 2 problems with this:

      first, the line is supposedly crossing Bobby's centre of gravity, not just going straight down. This represents a redefining of the offside rule, as I understand it;

      second, his "centre of gravity" appears to not be not so much his centre of gravity, as his left foot.

      Hence why the final red dotted line from Bobby's armpit appears to hit the ground somewhere to the left of where it should. Cos it's "hitting the ground" is actually just it intersecting a horizontal line through his left foot.

      An interesting effect of this new way of measuring offside (assuming this ESPN guy is right) appears be that if Bobby's left foot had been off the ground (or further off the ground), he wouldn't be offside, cos the horizontal line would be further up.

      Basically, what I'm taking from it is that VAR doesn't have an accurate way of determining where, if you draw a line straight down from a point on a player, that line hits the ground. They just seem to take it to be where that line crosses a horizontal line from your foot. (And your opposite foot at that.)
      « Last Edit: Nov 04, 2019 03:00:47 pm by sore monad »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #519: Nov 04, 2019 03:03:43 pm
      Can't take credit for the banner unfortunately! Was made by a lad I follow on Twitter - brilliant though wasn't it - Hopefully see a few more over the next 4 or so weeks!

      any pics?
      TameImpala
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #520: Nov 04, 2019 04:21:48 pm



      This one's being taken to Villa on Saturday apparently. Sums it up very nicely
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #521: Nov 04, 2019 09:23:45 pm
      Ref for City is the exact man I thought it would be, and he is a risk because amongst the good stuff he does he can make mistakes. Michael Oliver.
      GERNS
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #522: Nov 04, 2019 10:56:02 pm
      Ref for City is the exact man I thought it would be, and he is a risk because amongst the good stuff he does he can make mistakes. Michael Oliver.

      And it must be our turn to be on the beneficial side of any mistakes he makes. !
      AussieRed
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #523: Nov 05, 2019 01:46:30 am
      Get the f**k, never gave up on them for a minute and I knew if we equalized, we'd go on and grab a winner. Didn't see that header coming mind you, what a ripper from Sadio and the cross was a thing of beauty.

      Mo's T-Shirt from the Barca game last year has to be this season's motto!!!

      ruthcity
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #524: Nov 05, 2019 12:08:39 pm
      Ok, think I follow that. So the key thing to look at in the images there is the fine dotted black horizontal line. Where that line meets the red vertical line from Bobby's armpit is where the offside is determined.

      But there are 2 problems with this:

      first, the line is supposedly crossing Bobby's centre of gravity, not just going straight down. This represents a redefining of the offside rule, as I understand it;

      second, his "centre of gravity" appears to not be not so much his centre of gravity, as his left foot.

      Hence why the final red dotted line from Bobby's armpit appears to hit the ground somewhere to the left of where it should. Cos it's "hitting the ground" is actually just it intersecting a horizontal line through his left foot.

      An interesting effect of this new way of measuring offside (assuming this ESPN guy is right) appears be that if Bobby's left foot had been off the ground (or further off the ground), he wouldn't be offside, cos the horizontal line would be further up.

      Basically, what I'm taking from it is that VAR doesn't have an accurate way of determining where, if you draw a line straight down from a point on a player, that line hits the ground. They just seem to take it to be where that line crosses a horizontal line from your foot. (And your opposite foot at that.)


      Yes Martin, you've finally come out to explain yourself, only too late. You should just admit your mistake, or award us that goal there and then. You've proven to the whole world that you can't draw straight lines, yet you still continue to justify your wrong decision.

      Now that it's too late, you should just apologise to us and explain why you hate us and keep giving decisions against us.

      Martin?  Are you still there Martin? :aaliverpool2xt1:

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