Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      Trouble at the back?

      Read 7201 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      sore monad
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,937 posts | 502 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #23: Nov 25, 2019 09:10:20 pm
      Where the f**k have I blamed Gomez?

      Listen fella, in case you hadn't noticed, I don't play this silly blame game
      It's a team sport, and we win, lose or draw as a team.

      It's simply pointing out the obvious when I say that neither Gomez or Lovren is at the level Matip was before his injury, same as saying that TAA is not a great defender, especially when you compare his defending to his attacking play.

      Bit touchy there aren't you mate?

      The thread is about why we aren't as strong defensively as last season. You said neither Gomez or Lovren is as good as Matip. I was agreeing with you about Lovren, but not Gomez. No need to throw a strop.
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #24: Nov 25, 2019 09:16:34 pm
      TAA is a full back...Robbo is a full back..capiche...their first job is primarily to defend

      I don't think in our current system their job is primarily to defend, if it was they would be held back and not allowed to bomb forward every game, all game. The primary defenders in our system are the two CB's and Fabinho who drops in; it's like people complaining our mid-field is pedestrian and we need more offensive output when it is clear they are there to enable both TAA and Robbo the opportunity to attack. Historically of course the FB's job is to primarily defend, but the manager has rewritten the rule book on this and as such we have the highest offensive output in the fullback position in the world.

      If you think they're job is defend first it might be best to drop the manager a note and let him know how it should be done, cause obviously he didn't get the memo.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,947 posts | 8458 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #25: Nov 25, 2019 09:17:34 pm
      I don't think in our current system their job is primarily to defend

      It helps if they can though ;)
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #26: Nov 25, 2019 09:23:12 pm

      Well seeing how we have given up 11 goals in 13 league matches i'd say they are defending just fine.
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #27: Nov 25, 2019 09:26:25 pm

      HR...looks like we've only got two defenders...VVD & Lovren...the rest are up there being "primary attacking players"...

      Boss.."Now Robbo & Trent listen up...you are now "primary attacking players"...so get up there and attack...primarily..got it.....if you get time keep an eye on the back.....apparantly we have a bit of "trouble at the bacccckkk"...

      I'm not surprised as 'arf the defence are away "primarily attacking"..
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #28: Nov 25, 2019 09:27:41 pm
      Boss.."Now Robbo & Trent listen up...you are now "primary attacking players"...so get up there and attack

      Is that not what they have done for the past 18 months?
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 44,014 posts | 5760 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #29: Nov 25, 2019 09:29:17 pm
      Mane was no longer playing on that side for the City goal.
      He'd been immense. Issue arose when Ox was put on that side and Sterling got some more joy.


      Ox wasn’t on the pitch when they scored. Mane was just stood on the corner of the box on our right side, watching as we we’re trying to get the ball back in box and Sterling have a simple pass and Angelino had a free run on to the ball, completely untracked and was able to put the ball across the box.

      Not saying he wasn’t boss, just that it was the one time Mane switched off but he should have seen the run of Angelino...well he did see it, can see him watch him go and not do anything but in that instance I think he was focusing more on the ball breaking to him and neglected his defensive duties.

      But Mane isn’t the only one who switched off, nobody seemed to have a clue Bernardo Silva was lurking at the back.


      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZIsoA1p9J4
      « Last Edit: Nov 25, 2019 09:36:27 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #30: Nov 25, 2019 09:31:45 pm
      Is that not what they have done for the past 18 months?

      Not you as well...AZ..Trent and Robbo are defenders.....And...they ...sometimes...supoort.. .the att........."Stop that Harrismo...you must not say support...it's "primary attacking" don't yer know.."

      sorry...it just slipped out..
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #31: Nov 25, 2019 09:45:09 pm
      Not you as well...AZ..Trent and Robbo are defenders.....And...they ...sometimes...supoort.. .the att........."Stop that Harrismo...you must not say support...it's "primary attacking" don't yer know.."

      sorry...it just slipped out..

      IDK, your free to call them anything you want.

      They are up there at the top of the league the last 18 months in assists and you see the manager using midfielders to cover them so they can go forward but whatever.

      Don't think Guardiola has spent 200 million on fullbacks searching for the perfect "defend first" mentality nor do him, Klopp or Simione use them as traditional defenders like Mourinho or Hodgson do. Personally i think both do a fine job at defending (Robertson is a bit better at it but he's not a converted mid-fielder either).

      You simply cannot expect them to defend as well as perhaps they could strictly because the manager is using them as offensive weapons, it's either that or both TAA and Robbo are going rouge each match and ignoring the managers call to "defend first and foremost"
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #32: Nov 25, 2019 09:54:04 pm
      Back to your arrogance again Swab...I am at a loss to understand your ludicrous stance. I say support in relation to the full backs..and you jump in saying they are " primary attacking players"...firstly they are primarilry defenders...not as you claim...attackers. They are part of the back 4..not the front 3/4...I honestly....well I do know why you find this difficult to understand...it's because you are full of ridiculous coach speak...your waffling..stating the "bleedin' obvious" post earlier on in this thread puts you to shame.

      TAA is a full back...Robbo is a full back..capiche...their first job is primarily to defend...but differences between posters isn't the issue here...it's your blatant know all attitude that's the issue here...and I don't know why...you are not an outstanding poster in my opinion...not bad by any means...about average...so why the belittling patronising claptrap Swab...

      n.b. Maybe Swab you should look up the meaning of the word " primary"....chief importance; principal....

      So you think Klopp's stance is ludicrous.

      Got it.

      As previously explained, Klopp himself has said this on many occasions, but because you're on the WUM, you conveniently miss that part out, then go on a series of posts filled with nothing but childish rants to try and get a rise.

      On yer bike kid, I have better things to do with my time.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #33: Nov 25, 2019 09:56:08 pm
      Bit touchy there aren't you mate?

      The thread is about why we aren't as strong defensively as last season. You said neither Gomez or Lovren is as good as Matip. I was agreeing with you about Lovren, but not Gomez. No need to throw a strop.

      No strops here fella, just amazed you took that from my post when I said no such thing.

      Read it again, and this time, note the (yet) in brackets. The implication being, as has been discussed many, many times, that both need game time to get back to previous levels.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #34: Nov 25, 2019 09:57:47 pm
      I don't think in our current system their job is primarily to defend, if it was they would be held back and not allowed to bomb forward every game, all game. The primary defenders in our system are the two CB's and Fabinho who drops in; it's like people complaining our mid-field is pedestrian and we need more offensive output when it is clear they are there to enable both TAA and Robbo the opportunity to attack. Historically of course the FB's job is to primarily defend, but the manager has rewritten the rule book on this and as such we have the highest offensive output in the fullback position in the world.

      If you think they're job is defend first it might be best to drop the manager a note and let him know how it should be done, cause obviously he didn't get the memo.

      Not forgetting the 2 other mids dropping in behind TAA and Robertson to cover, so actually we have 5 defensive players, and 5 attacking.
      6 if one of the mids pushes up, but that's more usual when a FB stays back - mixing it up a bit to wrongfoot the opposition.

      Apparently, this is very difficult for some to understand.

      Either that or someone is on a WUM and just looking to get a rise.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,091 posts | 1632 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #35: Nov 25, 2019 10:06:07 pm
      One thing I think we have struggled a bit with is defending set pieces not corners as such but free kicks when we are such a high line it has been broke on numerous occasions  and not punished as often as it could of been
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 39,947 posts | 8458 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #36: Nov 25, 2019 10:09:13 pm
      Well seeing how we have given up 11 goals in 13 league matches i'd say they are defending just fine.

      Well seeing as I definitely used a F***ing smiley, I wasn't being that serious!!
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #37: Nov 25, 2019 10:15:39 pm
      One thing I think we have struggled a bit with is defending set pieces not corners as such but free kicks when we are such a high line it has been broke on numerous occasions  and not punished as often as it could of been

      If memory serves, it's usually one player not staying in line, and going back too early, which would be an issue with discipline apart from anything else.

      I haven't looked at them all, so might be wrong, but that's how it seems from memory.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,091 posts | 1632 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #38: Nov 25, 2019 10:29:57 pm
      If memory serves, it's usually one player not staying in line, and going back too early, which would be an issue with discipline apart from anything else.

      I haven't looked at them all, so might be wrong, but that's how it seems from memory.

      Yes it is Bobby played someone on recently might have  been Sterling not 100% had it down to a fine art I thought last year bar from a couple of hitches but this year seem a little more susceptible
      Billy1
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,638 posts | 1966 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #39: Nov 26, 2019 12:45:24 am
      I think the time to worry about conceding the odd goal is when we are not scoring goals ourselves.I think if you scrutinise the opposition goals you will find a few of them have come from when the ball has been lost in midfield.One final point ,just carry on getting the 3 points Jurgens REDS and there will be no complaints from me.
      Benito
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,918 posts | 281 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #40: Nov 26, 2019 01:39:58 am
      We switch off at set pieces all the time, definitely not as solid as last year, which was a complete Uturn from the year before.
      We also tend to start slowly, and end up playing catch up. I know that means we have a bit more in the tank towards the 80 minute mark which isn’t a coincidence considering all the late goals, but still a concerning trait. Matip back will help for sure, but I don’t think will be the only solution. Agree that Alisson doesn’t seem back to his very best yet, but at the end of the day we’re strolling the league be it with some shaky performances and still have lots of room for improvement. As long as we aren’t dropping points, I don’t think we should give a hoot.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,088 posts | 1046 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #41: Nov 26, 2019 04:51:07 am
      Cant we all stop fighting and just blame Alberto M.......  Oh wait

      :f_whistle: I'll see myself out
      David Wright
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 5,233 posts | 752 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #42: Nov 26, 2019 09:34:26 am
      I will accept the defence has room for improvement, but taking into account, our league position, there is not too much too worry about.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #43: Nov 26, 2019 09:41:07 am
      Ox wasn’t on the pitch when they scored. Mane was just stood on the corner of the box on our right side, watching as we we’re trying to get the ball back in box and Sterling have a simple pass and Angelino had a free run on to the ball, completely untracked and was able to put the ball across the box.

      Not saying he wasn’t boss, just that it was the one time Mane switched off but he should have seen the run of Angelino...well he did see it, can see him watch him go and not do anything but in that instance I think he was focusing more on the ball breaking to him and neglected his defensive duties.

      But Mane isn’t the only one who switched off, nobody seemed to have a clue Bernardo Silva was lurking at the back.


      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZIsoA1p9J4

      Ah yeah. That's when Klopp wanted to make a sub and it wasn't done.
      Reckon that's why we weren't 100% switched on.
      The sub then moved Mane and brought Ox on to that side.
      skamp
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 834 posts | 306 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #44: Nov 26, 2019 10:01:48 am
      Think there are a few things going on here IMO.

      A lot of teams have copped on to the right side of our defence being the more vulnerable, particularly with Matip being out.  Would you rather attack Robbo & VVD or Trent & Lovren/Gomez?
      Trent does get caught out a lot, especially to the diagonal ball over his head. 

      VVD has not been as commanding as he was last season.  Whether this is down to a natural drop-off due to being so good last season, or he's maybe lording it a bit on the back of all the accolades he's received, I'm not sure.  But he has been caught looking over his shoulder a few times in the area this season at an opposing striker who's scoring.

      Defending free-kicks we've also been more vulnerable.  Against City, they broke the offside trap twice and missed 2 virtual sitters, fortunately for us.  It seems the line we hold and step-up is not as well timed or organised as it was last season.  I think VVD is the man to organise this, so again, he needs to sharpen up here.

      As long as we keep scoring goals, this isn't an issue, but once we hit a lean spell up front, we need the defence/DMs to be right on the money.  I'm sure they will be when the time comes.

      COYR!!!
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Trouble at the back?
      Reply #45: Nov 26, 2019 10:22:29 am
      Think there are a few things going on here IMO.

      A lot of teams have copped on to the right side of our defence being the more vulnerable, particularly with Matip being out.  Would you rather attack Robbo & VVD or Trent & Lovren/Gomez?
      Trent does get caught out a lot, especially to the diagonal ball over his head. 

      VVD has not been as commanding as he was last season.  Whether this is down to a natural drop-off due to being so good last season, or he's maybe lording it a bit on the back of all the accolades he's received, I'm not sure.  But he has been caught looking over his shoulder a few times in the area this season at an opposing striker who's scoring.

      Defending free-kicks we've also been more vulnerable.  Against City, they broke the offside trap twice and missed 2 virtual sitters, fortunately for us.  It seems the line we hold and step-up is not as well timed or organised as it was last season.  I think VVD is the man to organise this, so again, he needs to sharpen up here.

      As long as we keep scoring goals, this isn't an issue, but once we hit a lean spell up front, we need the defence/DMs to be right on the money.  I'm sure they will be when the time comes.

      COYR!!!


      I think this could be nail on head, VVD is still a superb defender but he's not quite the superman of last year. I have no problem with trent and Robbo effectively being more winger than FB BUT if that's the case then they need to both start scoring some more goals, and actually its good to see that they have started to do this a bit more.

      Our defence is still very very good, it just needs a little bit of fine tuning.

      Quick Reply