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      Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?

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      brezipool
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #25: Feb 13, 2020 10:55:35 am
      Roy Evan finished 4th on equal points with second place in 96/97 and 3rd in 97/98 but this was when the top two qualified for CL this isn't a team going backwards like some suggest. Houlier came into a squad full of potential and promise.
      Evans never gets the credit he deserves for the excitement he brought to Anfield and the appointment of Houlier must have been a terrible kick in the bollocks for him.

      Agree with this, I loved the evans teams, they were so good to watch. Just lacked that 10% in defense to win titles. Imagine roys team with our current CBs and goalie. oaft.!!!
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #26: Feb 13, 2020 04:05:22 pm
      That 2000/01 got me back into LFC and football in general so grateful for that.The game was starting to get more tv time over here and the brit bands meant more yanks were picking a team.The number of reds that showed up at the pubs for the cup final was an eye opener. So yeah not club saviour not unloved for me,didn't read article.
      Swab
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #27: Feb 13, 2020 06:07:31 pm
      Agree with this, I loved the evans teams, they were so good to watch. Just lacked that 10% in defense to win titles. Imagine roys team with our current CBs and goalie. oaft.!!!

      I think maybe the team went the other way under Houllier, and became a bit too defensive.

      Of course, it takes time and money to get the balance right, but without doubt, Evans's team was easier on the eye and played some lovely football at times.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #28: Feb 13, 2020 06:19:27 pm
      Absolutely loved for the Treble Cup season, got us back to the proper big time of Europe. Unfortunately his illness after his heart trouble probably clouded his judgement in all honesty with his biggest error being signing that arsehole Diouf and to an extent Cheyrou instead of buying Anelka, that more than anything probably tipped the balance when Parry decided we needed a new manager.

      I think his tenure went wrong simply by signing Diouf and Diao based on Senegal beating France in the World Cup.

      We'd already signed them by the time they were playing for Senegal against France!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #29: Feb 13, 2020 06:23:57 pm
      Saw us beat Arsenal 4-0 in the league during that treble season. That was another early lesson for me in the power of Anfield because I was wary of that Gunners team with Viera and Bergkamp, but we just slashed through them.


      Arsenal played an under strength team that night as they had already won the League, I think that was the game Manninger made his debut for Arsenal.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #30: Feb 13, 2020 07:52:08 pm
      Arsenal played an under strength team that night as they had already won the League, I think that was the game Manninger made his debut for Arsenal.

      Manninger was in goal that day but this game was just before Christmas. I think United won the league that year.


      The biggest roar of the night was when Fowler scored the 4th, right before fulltime.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #31: Feb 13, 2020 08:59:06 pm
      In summer 2002, nobody criticised him. But the last 18 months in charge is what most remember him for, and it was painful. He was convinced that Cheyrou would run riot, Diouf could score goals, and Traore could play football. Those who could play football, e.g. Macca/McAteer/Fowler, were frozen out then let go.

      By the time he left, we were pretty much back to where he started. But he is one of the few coaches I've ever seen to show up to the very news conference announcing that he would be fired. Usually it comes in a cold clinical press release these days.

      He brought back a taste of the good old days for a while, but by 2003 we were stagnating, and he stayed a year too long. Trying to claim the credit for Istanbul hit a nerve with many. He's not unloved, but he was not the saviour either.
      TameImpala
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #32: Feb 13, 2020 09:16:12 pm
      In summer 2002, nobody criticised him. But the last 18 months in charge is what most remember him for, and it was painful. He was convinced that Cheyrou would run riot, Diouf could score goals, and Traore could play football. Those who could play football, e.g. Macca/McAteer/Fowler, were frozen out then let go.

      Macca wasn't frozen out mate, he'd made his mind up he was leaving & was running his contract down before Houllier walked through the door.

      McAteer was half decent but he was nowhere near as good as Didi Hamman who was effectively brought in to replace him

      Fowler was great but you could argue we sold him at the right time, he was way past his best when he went to Leeds & I think we got about £13 million for him which was quite a big fee at the time (albeit it was probably reinvested on sh*te the following summer)
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #33: Feb 13, 2020 09:17:07 pm
      Macca/McAteer/Fowler, were frozen out then let go.

      Macca wasn't frozen out, it was perfectly clear he had every intention of leaving and signed the pre contract with Madrid at pretty much the earliest chance he could have done, despite us offering him a new contract. He spent about 5 or 6 months just simply going through the motions because he knew Madrid was on the horizon.

      Fowler I believe stemmed from a falling out between him and Thompson.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #34: Feb 13, 2020 09:46:41 pm
      Manninger was in goal that day but this game was just before Christmas. I think United won the league that year.


      The biggest roar of the night was when Fowler scored the 4th, right before fulltime.

      Yeah got mixed upcwith when they won the league in 98, I know what game you mean now.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #35: Feb 13, 2020 09:54:28 pm
      In summer 2002, nobody criticised him. But the last 18 months in charge is what most remember him for, and it was painful. He was convinced that Cheyrou would run riot, Diouf could score goals, and Traore could play football. Those who could play football, e.g. Macca/McAteer/Fowler, were frozen out then let go.

      By the time he left, we were pretty much back to where he started. But he is one of the few coaches I've ever seen to show up to the very news conference announcing that he would be fired. Usually it comes in a cold clinical press release these days.

      He brought back a taste of the good old days for a while, but by 2003 we were stagnating, and he stayed a year too long. Trying to claim the credit for Istanbul hit a nerve with many. He's not unloved, but he was not the saviour either.

      Macca leaving can't be levelled at Ged, that was the club's fault being to quick too accept an offer from Barca, which came to nothing as they were using it as a cloak to sign Rivaldo. As soon as Macca knew about Real wanting him and probably through agent advice made the decision to leave on a Bosman.

      Fowler is probably the only one of the three you mentioned to be genuinely turfed out by Houllier. McAteer wasn't good enough to play in the treble team, he was lucky enough to be playing in Evan's side in all honesty, Rob Jones was a far better right back and was shunted to left back to accommodate McAteer. He couldn't get a game in midfield, his one and only game in midfield away at Boro in the league cup is testament to that.

      And what's with the digs at Troare, he proved invaluable on the run to Istanbul and in the final, goal line clearance in both Turin and Istanbul. 
      « Last Edit: Feb 13, 2020 10:01:42 pm by HUYTON RED »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #36: Feb 13, 2020 09:59:23 pm
      I think maybe the team went the other way under Houllier, and became a bit too defensive.

      Of course, it takes time and money to get the balance right, but without doubt, Evans's team was easier on the eye and played some lovely football at times.

      you could see the thought process of combing Evans and Houlier and they did in 2005 with Rafa who could do both defend and attack.
      but under both Roy and Gerrard we had some terrible goalies. Time should reflect well on both of them they gave us all they had and some memorable games along the way and Silverware too.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #37: Feb 17, 2020 01:49:12 pm
      Quote from HUYTON RED
      Macca leaving can't be levelled at Ged, that was the club's fault being to quick too accept an offer from Barca, which came to nothing as they were using it as a cloak to sign Rivaldo. As soon as Macca knew about Real wanting him and probably through agent advice made the decision to leave on a Bosman.

      Fowler is probably the only one of the three you mentioned to be genuinely turfed out by Houllier. McAteer wasn't good enough to play in the treble team, he was lucky enough to be playing in Evan's side in all honesty, Rob Jones was a far better right back and was shunted to left back to accommodate McAteer. He couldn't get a game in midfield, his one and only game in midfield away at Boro in the league cup is testament to that.

      And what's with the digs at Troare, he proved invaluable on the run to Istanbul and in the final, goal line clearance in both Turin and Istanbul. 

      Macca and McAteer had discussions with Houllier, and felt that he wanted the team to go in a different direction to them. McAteer didn't like Houllier's idea of keeping players in hotels. It's routine now, but it wasn't at the time. Macca didn't want to stick around for another rebuilding job, and 6 months later both were gone.

      Traore was just awful, one of, possibly the worst defender here over the past 30 years. Apart from his back heel og's in the cup, the lowest point was him falling over the ball under no pressure against Charlton at home and them scoring the only goal of the game from it. I've never seen it before or since from one of our players. It was Easter Monday 2004 but he was awful long before that. What Houllier saw in him I can't explain, and it was a relief when he was finally taken off our hands. When we finally got rid of them, I think it was West Brom and he was just as bad there.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #38: Feb 17, 2020 04:40:52 pm
      McAteer wasn't good enough to play in the treble team, he was lucky enough to be playing in Evan's side in all honesty, Rob Jones was a far better right back and was shunted to left back to accommodate McAteer. He couldn't get a game in midfield, his one and only game in midfield away at Boro in the league cup is testament to that.


      Sorry for singling out this part of your good post, but it reminds me that I do not understand why Jason McAteer gets so much attention in the Liverpool orbit, especially from LFC TV. He was a distinctly average player for us and certainly nowhere in the category of McManaman or Fowler. I know he got a lot of camps for Ireland, but two club teams he was transferred to were relegated after he joined them, and his coaching career (with John Barnes at Tranmere) lasted all of 11 games. I know he grew up on Merseyside but I just don't see what it is about the guy that keeps seeing him in the limelight with LFC media (not a good analyst either).
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #39: Feb 17, 2020 06:30:06 pm
      Traore was just awful, one of, possibly the worst defender here over the past 30 years. Apart from his back heel og's in the cup, the lowest point was him falling over the ball under no pressure against Charlton at home and them scoring the only goal of the game from it. I've never seen it before or since from one of our players. It was Easter Monday 2004 but he was awful long before that. What Houllier saw in him I can't explain, and it was a relief when he was finally taken off our hands. When we finally got rid of them, I think it was West Brom and he was just as bad there.

      Still loved Disco Djimi's goal line clearances in Turin & Istanbul. To be fair his oggie at Turf Moor was a pearler, me and my brother and his mates were all bladdered laughing ourselves stupid over that one in the ground.

      Taking over the cricket club beforehand probably helped!!
      clint_call01
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #40: Feb 17, 2020 06:37:32 pm
      He's the first manager I actually remember from my very young age and I used to love him. After his heart-issues, he was never the same.

      He got wrong some transfers like Rafa'. Gerard did not play enough and then sold Fowler for Diouf :( Rafa' sought Barry instead of Alonso. They made fatal errors in transfers.

      That is the difference with Klopp. He got excellent transfers and what he got it wrong (Karius), he amended immediately.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Savior or Under-Loved?
      Reply #41: Feb 17, 2020 06:57:26 pm
      I have a huge amount of love and respect for Gerard

      To answer the thread title I'm not sure its either to be honest, club saviour is maybe pushing it some, but he certainly dragged the club into the modern world, he was our Wenger, he transformed the diet and modern professionalism that was required, he added the coldness that was required to drag the club into the 21st century and away from the boot room that albeit a massive and integral part of the clubs history but ultimately that's where it needed to be..in the history.

      But by all accounts dont take that coldness as his overriding persona, the way he is talked about by the generation that came through under him, Stevie, Carra  and Owen is one of great love and respect also.. he loved and nurtured those players and they adore him.
      But as I said he was a tough man too, solely focused on getting the club professional and away from that spice boy reputation. Gone were the characters like Ince who he didn't respect as a leader of the new Liverpool.. gone were the likes of David James who he felt had made enough errors.. soon enough the likes of real fan favourites of my generation like Robbie Fowler who personally I took pretty hard and it tested that love at times.
      Robbie I think was also a bit of a power play, he wanted to rid that messing around element and the last part of the spice boys but also I believe looking back with more life experience now he wanted to show ultimately who was boss, who was the leader of this club now.. his way or off you go.

      Carragher was another example of that.. I heard a recent interview with Carra which backs this up. He wanted him to be professional and cut out drinking etc.. telling him he will be done by 25 if he didn't.
      The difference between Robbie and say Carra was age and he felt he could mould a 19 year old Carra but a 25 year old Fowler was too far gone and he wasnt sentimental about who the player was.. it was buy in or ship out

      2000-01 is still my favourite season ever, I was just turning into an adult, I'd lived through the baron 90s, I'd been a kid through the end of the title winning sides, been a kid watching the FA cup wins in 89.. but now in 2000 I felt like this was my team, my lads, my era..I was old enough to celebrate as an adult and we were winning most weeks, we played pretty much every game we could that year and we won the vast majority finish 3rd in the league, to win every other cup we entered.. it truly was an unbelievable season.

      Bearing in mind since 1990 we'd only won the 92 FA cup, the 95 league cup so to win the UEFA cup, league cup and FA cup all in the same season and the actual trophies all within a couple of months ( 2 in a week) and finish 3rd and qualify for the CL it was unbelievable and like I say my favourite single season in my memory - mind you this one will run it close.

      Gerard delivered that.

      By the time 2004 came it was time to move on and Rafa who I also came to adore took over but that doesnt take away from what Houllier meant to me and my generation

      Tough.. uncompromising .. but ultimately a kind and brilliant man.

      A winner

      Saviour of the club though? No but vital in the much needed modernisation of it

      Under loved? Not by me whatsoever

      Here here..can't improve or come near that great post. Excellent all round and expresses my sentiments 100%.
      TameImpala
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #42: Jul 08, 2020 03:34:10 pm
      Interview with Houllier in the Echo. Few interesting points - didn't know he was head of football at Red Bull and supposedly discovered Keita & Sadio (although he has been known to claim he was also responsible for Istanbul so I'll take that with a pinch of salt! ;D)


      P1 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-gerard-houlliers-message-liverpool-18545523

      P2 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-gerard-houllier-outlines-next-18545524
      Swab
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #43: Jul 08, 2020 04:38:19 pm
      Interview with Houllier in the Echo. Few interesting points - didn't know he was head of football at Red Bull and supposedly discovered Keita & Sadio (although he has been known to claim he was also responsible for Istanbul so I'll take that with a pinch of salt! ;D)


      P1 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-gerard-houlliers-message-liverpool-18545523

      P2 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-gerard-houllier-outlines-next-18545524

      I've got a lot of time for Houllier, but let's be honest, he's never been one to shy away from blowing his own trumpet.

      Not as pretentious as BR perhaps, but a big fan of himself.

      The flip side of that is any top player or manager needs a bit of arrogance (or a lot) to get into that position in the first place, so I sometimes feel it's a bit harsh to judge them by the standards of us mere mortals ;)
      TameImpala
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #44: Jul 08, 2020 05:38:00 pm
      I've got a lot of time for Houllier, but let's be honest, he's never been one to shy away from blowing his own trumpet.

      Not as pretentious as BR perhaps, but a big fan of himself.

      The flip side of that is any top player or manager needs a bit of arrogance (or a lot) to get into that position in the first place, so I sometimes feel it's a bit harsh to judge them by the standards of us mere mortals ;)

      Dread to think what Rodgers would have been like if he actually won anything with us. Think he would have ended up getting a tattoo... Of himself  ;D
      Swab
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #45: Jul 08, 2020 05:52:19 pm
      Dread to think what Rodgers would have been like if he actually won anything with us. Think he would have ended up getting a tattoo... Of himself  ;D

      I like BR, but he does seem to be stuck in an endless loop of "look how brilliant I am".

      Houllier was much more down to earth, at least in public.
      His media interviews were a bit off though at times.
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #46: Jul 08, 2020 05:58:14 pm
      I like BR, but he does seem to be stuck in an endless loop of "look how brilliant I am".

      Houllier was much more down to earth, at least in public.
      His media interviews were a bit off though at times.

      Was funny with Rodgers, quite early on I noticed if we played poorly, he'd describe us as "we" in his post match interviews (We didn't do this, we didn't do that)

      Whereas if we played well, it would be "I" (I wanted us to do this, I changed that)
      Swab
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #47: Jul 08, 2020 06:05:48 pm
      Was funny with Rodgers, quite early on I noticed if we played poorly, he'd describe us as "we" in his post match interviews (We didn't do this, we didn't do that)

      Whereas if we played well, it would be "I" (I wanted us to do this, I changed that)

      Good shout that.

      I wondered if I was imagining it at one point, but it's definitely something he did.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #48: Jul 08, 2020 06:25:56 pm
      Good shout that.

      I wondered if I was imagining it at one point, but it's definitely something he did.

      Aren't we glad we've got Jürgen? If we don't deliver, it's him. If we do, it's the players. Wow! That's a huge lesson on management.
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      Re: Gerard Houllier: Club Saviour or Under-Loved?
      Reply #49: Jul 08, 2020 06:37:17 pm
      Ged has his place in our history. Fans by and large don't disrespect him, I certainly don't. Said my piece on other sites on numerous occasions, debated him for hours on end. Good kind man in many ways. I think he knows we respect him, he did his best and did achieve a lot of success. I not going to dwell on the negatives of his time here. Hope he's keeping well.

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