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      Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)

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      rossyred
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #125: Aug 03, 2020 08:59:57 pm
      £450m net over the last 5 years and very little to show for it.

      They could show the £430 mill debt
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #126: Aug 03, 2020 09:01:08 pm
      £450m net over the last 5 years and very little to show for it.

      Sh!t happens  ;D Saving two million a month now that Sanchez gone, it all helps  ;D
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #127: Aug 03, 2020 10:02:11 pm
      Certainly crazy money KK that's for sure. Can't believe it's going to cost that much considering covid. United do have a habit of over paying.

      I know from the outside it could look as though I’m just saying it because we aren’t the ones doing it, but it genuinely wouldn’t sit right with me paying such a massive amount of money on an unproven player. Sancho has shown potential but he’s only been playing as regular for what, season and a half? It’s madness, teams pay far more now for potential rather than proven quality. Just think what £120mill could get you; United’s strongest area is in attack, the weakest is the defence, with 120mill you could completely revamp that defence.

      Hundreds of millions have been spent now on “potential”, but I’d say well over half of that, probably nearer three quarters of it has been wasted.

      United spent about 50mill on Martial and it’s taken him about 6 years to have his first good and consistent season. Joao Felix has been a major disappointment from all the promise that was there before he left Portugal. We’ve wasted a lot on the likes of Markovic. I think the only mega money signing of such a young player that has been without doubt a success is Mbappe.

      Sancho looks a good player but he’s going to be sold for more than double what he’s really worth. United will never recoup the money they will pay for him and he won’t suddenly catapult them to success because the defence and keeper is such a liability so it seems more of a very expensive sideways step.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #128: Aug 03, 2020 10:50:34 pm
      I know from the outside it could look as though I’m just saying it because we aren’t the ones doing it, but it genuinely wouldn’t sit right with me paying such a massive amount of money on an unproven player. Sancho has shown potential but he’s only been playing as regular for what, season and a half? It’s madness, teams pay far more now for potential rather than proven quality. Just think what £120mill could get you; United’s strongest area is in attack, the weakest is the defence, with 120mill you could completely revamp that defence.

      Hundreds of millions have been spent now on “potential”, but I’d say well over half of that, probably nearer three quarters of it has been wasted.

      United spent about 50mill on Martial and it’s taken him about 6 years to have his first good and consistent season. Joao Felix has been a major disappointment from all the promise that was there before he left Portugal. We’ve wasted a lot on the likes of Markovic. I think the only mega money signing of such a young player that has been without doubt a success is Mbappe.

      Sancho looks a good player but he’s going to be sold for more than double what he’s really worth. United will never recoup the money they will pay for him and he won’t suddenly catapult them to success because the defence and keeper is such a liability so it seems more of a very expensive sideways step.

      Its a common defence mechanism for rival fans to say he's not worth ex amount of money because they may or may not of missed out. Hell i hate the kind of money any team spends on transfers these days as its just obscene. Most clubs just say pay it  or basically f**k off.

      At the time you bought VVD many said (( including myself )) he's not worth the £75 million you paid for him. Wasn't long before he proved all the doubters wrong. Some you win, some you lose. What we lose on Sancho you could argue we gained on Bruno.

      I know at the end of the day  if you lads had paid £120 million  some would say its too much and others say he's quality for one so young so buying potential. Its sods law KK.  At the end of the day from a fans base point of view he will improve our side. As you know we've been going through a transitional period and this is simply what United have to do too catch you up.

      Ive said many times and will stand by it from a fans perspective much as i don't like the money spent on players in today's market if it improves the team to go on and win trophies then im very happy, if all else fails least it gets the heart beating again with excitement.

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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #129: Aug 03, 2020 11:02:08 pm
      Its a common defence mechanism for rival fans to say he's not worth ex amount of money because they may or may not of missed out. Hell i hate the kind of money any team spends on transfers these days as its just obscene. Most clubs just say pay it  or basically f**k off.

      At the time you bought VVD many said (( including myself )) he's not worth the £75 million you paid for him. Wasn't long before he proved all the doubters wrong. Some you win, some you lose. What we lose on Sancho you could argue we gained on Bruno.

      I know at the end of the day  if you lads had paid £120 million  some would say its too much and others say he's quality for one so young so buying potential. Its sods law KK.  At the end of the day from a fans base point of view he will improve our side. As you know we've been going through a transitional period and this is simply what United have to do too catch you up.

      Ive said many times and will stand by it from a fans perspective much as i don't like the money spent on players in today's market if it improves the team to go on and win trophies then im very happy, if all else fails least it gets the heart beating again with excitement.



      Or just keep Maguire and Lindelof, they will get your heart beating....probably more out of fear mind :laugh:

      Out of curiosity. If he goes the same way as the likes of Joao Felix...or keeping it more United based; Lukaku, Pogba etc who didn’t live up to their price tags, where does the club go from there because 75 and 90mill on them two players for example was a massive amount of money, but £120mill is something else.
      rossyred
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #130: Aug 03, 2020 11:23:52 pm
      Its a common defence mechanism for rival fans to say he's not worth ex amount of money because they may or may not of missed out. Hell i hate the kind of money any team spends on transfers these days as its just obscene. Most clubs just say pay it  or basically f**k off.

      At the time you bought VVD many said (( including myself )) he's not worth the £75 million you paid for him. Wasn't long before he proved all the doubters wrong. Some you win, some you lose. What we lose on Sancho you could argue we gained on Bruno.

      I know at the end of the day  if you lads had paid £120 million  some would say its too much and others say he's quality for one so young so buying potential. Its sods law KK.  At the end of the day from a fans base point of view he will improve our side. As you know we've been going through a transitional period and this is simply what United have to do too catch you up.

      Ive said many times and will stand by it from a fans perspective much as i don't like the money spent on players in today's market if it improves the team to go on and win trophies then im very happy, if all else fails least it gets the heart beating again with excitement.

      Fernandez will cost you nearly 70M with add ons and has had one half a decent  season need a lot more than that to make on him
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #131: Aug 03, 2020 11:25:16 pm
      Or just keep Maguire and Lindelof, they will get your heart beating....probably more out of fear mind :laugh:

      Out of curiosity. If he goes the same way as the likes of Joao Felix...or keeping it more United based; Lukaku, Pogba etc who didn’t live up to their price tags, where does the club go from there because 75 and 90mill on them two players for example was a massive amount of money, but £120mill is something else.

      Yeah Maguire & Lindelof concern me considerably, certainly no Ferdinand - Vidic - Pallister - Bruce - Stam  etc etc.

      I'm not going to second guess with players that haven't worked out but Pogba most definitely not on that list.  The club continues like all the premier league clubs do. If its a bad year just like it can be on the pitch its written off and move on.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #132: Aug 03, 2020 11:27:02 pm
      Fernandez will cost you nearly 70M with add ons and has had one half a decent  season need a lot more than that to make on him

      Won't cost me anything but know what you mean.  ;D
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #133: Aug 03, 2020 11:46:54 pm
      Pogba most definitely not on that list.

      You think he’s justified £90mill?
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #134: Aug 04, 2020 12:13:22 am
      You think he’s justified £90mill?


      I dont think in today's market anyone can justify their price tag although you could argue im a dinosaur in that department. If you don't pay then we all end up like Palace, Burnley, Everton, West hams of this world and just make up the numbers.

      Let me ask you something?
      You lads just won the holy grail of football by a landslide, you happy going into next season without  dabbling in the transfer market? If you are given a chance to improve your side albeit 120 million for one signing surley you take it? Its been well publicized by many fans and pundits you should always improve the side and don't let others catch up.

      Even Souness said its a mistake but that isn't Klopps fault its the owners, least our owners are trying to rebuild. Sitting back never ideal we both know that KK.

      You'd of thought winning the league by 18 points that you don't need to improve, that being the case why aren't you favourite for next year? Reason is simple in my opinion.

       20/21 season i can see more injuries early doors for all clubs, your squad not deep enough and just favors City's who have a bench that could put another team in and do quite well. If the new rule about 5 subs comes into play City will be laughing. At the same time i thought Liverpool did very well overall with few injuries this season. It most deafinitely won't be the case in the new season.

      Not saying you won't win the league but can't see it being a landslide again. Just admit it you'd of liked Sancho if it was possible.  ;D

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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #135: Aug 04, 2020 12:21:57 am
      If you don't pay then we all end up like Palace, Burnley, Everton, West hams of this world and just make up the numbers.

      It’s not about how much you pay though, it’s how you spend that money which is the important part. A point I probably make too often is the Mendy and Robertson example, Mendy was the talk of football in terms of left backs at the time on the back of a fine season with Monaco so City went and paid 50mill+ for him, whilst we went and signed a player from relegated Hull for 7mill. One team made a signing based on him being the right player, the other made a signing based on a high profile and it’s the 7mill defender who not many people had really noticed that has completely eclipsed the big name at the time.


      Let me ask you something?
      You lads just won the holy grail of football by a landslide, you happy going into next season without  dabbling in the transfer market? If you are given a chance to improve your side albeit 120 million for one signing surley you take it? Its been well publicized by many fans and pundits you should always improve the side and don't let others catch up.

      I think we do need to do something in the transfer window but I don’t think the thing we need to do is pay 120mill for one player. There are very few players out there that we could sign that would actually be able to come straight into our team as a definitive first choice. I’d rather we didn’t sign anyone than pay 120mill for one player because it’s just poor decision making if we were to do that when we have a few areas that need addressing. Instead of 120mill on one player, we need to spend the money (for example that sum) across 3 or 4 players. We need cover at left back, cover at CB and cover in attack, but I don’t think there is any player out there that would justify us paying that amount for him. Likewise your attack, your attack doesn’t need a 120mill addition, where as your defence definitely does need significant improvement. Sancho is more of a luxury signing than a necessity, for both us and you.


      Not saying you won't win the league but can't see it being a landslide again. Just admit it you'd of liked Sancho if it was possible.

      Who knows, I don’t think anyone would have predicted a landslide win a year ago given City managed to win the league despite us getting 97 points. Likewise I didn’t expect us to get 97 points again this season, never mind going beyond that to 99.
      If it was possible to sign Sancho for a much more realistic fee, more along the lines of what Pulisic went for then yeah absolutely, but anything more than that? Nah not for me, not even in the slightest bit interested in us signing him or anyone else for such a fee because we simply don’t need it.


      But we will see, if the move goes through then he will either justify it or he won’t, only time will tell. Personally I hope it does go through because I think there is then less chance of you improving the areas of your team that actually needs it...and then hopefully he turns out to be the worst signing you could have possibly of made :laugh:
      « Last Edit: Aug 04, 2020 12:36:35 am by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #136: Aug 04, 2020 12:36:22 am

      If it was possible to sign Sancho for a much more realistic fee, more along the lines of what Pulisic went for then yeah absolutely, but anything more than that? Nah not for me, not even in the slightest bit interested in us signing him or anyone else for such a fee because we simply don’t need it.

      Think your a minority as a fan KK . Pretty sure if it went to a vote fans would jump at it if it was that or nothing. Spending 120 million on overall squad improvement wouldn't be a bad idea though.

      You have 11 players that can win the league again if no injuries. We both think it's a luxury buy though. Sadly Ole won't listen to me as I like you would definitely spend 120 million on our defence.
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #137: Aug 04, 2020 12:39:31 am
      Think your a minority as a fan KK . Pretty sure if it went to a vote fans would jump at it if it was that or nothing. Spending 120 million on overall squad improvement wouldn't be a bad idea though.

      I agree, because people like to see their club spend money, sometimes people get caught up in the luxury of a player or a big fee rather than focussing on the necessity of it...then many of them will be happily moaning what a waste of money it is if the signing doesn’t work out. It’s all one big circle.
      « Last Edit: Aug 04, 2020 12:47:39 am by 7-King Kenny-7 »
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #138: Aug 04, 2020 04:08:01 am
      Think your a minority as a fan KK . Pretty sure if it went to a vote fans would jump at it if it was that or nothing. Spending 120 million on overall squad improvement wouldn't be a bad idea though.

      You have 11 players that can win the league again if no injuries. We both think it's a luxury buy though. Sadly Ole won't listen to me as I like you would definitely spend 120 million on our defence.

      I think a lot of people are losing their minds over clubs spending big money while we stay put. However, is Werner or Havertz gonna be able to play CB for Chelsea and keep out goals?

      Sancho going to y'all looks great. The kid is really talented and will prolly continue to improve and become a great player. However, with all the young talent you have upfront that money would probably be better served to keep out goals, not score them.

      At this point, Klopp and his staff have delivered. I trust them. They have found great players for cheap in the past. We also have young guys that are more ready and continue to improve. Trust in the system boys. We may be seeing something very similar to the boot room in 2020.
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #139: Aug 04, 2020 09:44:42 am
      Its a common defence mechanism for rival fans to say he's not worth ex amount of money because they may or may not of missed out. Hell i hate the kind of money any team spends on transfers these days as its just obscene. Most clubs just say pay it  or basically f**k off.

      At the time you bought VVD many said (( including myself )) he's not worth the £75 million you paid for him. Wasn't long before he proved all the doubters wrong. Some you win, some you lose. What we lose on Sancho you could argue we gained on Bruno.

      I know at the end of the day  if you lads had paid £120 million  some would say its too much and others say he's quality for one so young so buying potential. Its sods law KK.  At the end of the day from a fans base point of view he will improve our side. As you know we've been going through a transitional period and this is simply what United have to do too catch you up.

      Ive said many times and will stand by it from a fans perspective much as i don't like the money spent on players in today's market if it improves the team to go on and win trophies then im very happy, if all else fails least it gets the heart beating again with excitement.



      What irritates me is the uneven playing field, yourselves, City and Chelsea always spend far more money then the other clubs in the Prem on transfer fees and crucially on wages, with varying degrees of success, Alexis Sanchez being a prime example. This makes it almost impossible for other clubs to compete in the transfer market for the top talent and means they have to be a bit smarter and try to pick up the emerging talent which is always a bit more hit and miss and deprives you of getting players who make an instant impact, normally needing a bit longer to settle in etc.  An example of this is Werner who should be our player if it were not for Chelsea stepping in at the last moment and offering him double the wages, there is simply no way we could match that without completely f**king up our wage structure and what puzzles me is how these other clubs can sustain this year after year whilst staying within FFP.

      The only exceptions to this for Liverpool were Virgil and Allison, who were top players when bought, but they were funded by the sale of Coutinhio and were absolute crucial positions, they were however a big exception to how we normally do business.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #140: Aug 04, 2020 09:52:26 am
      Think your a minority as a fan KK . Pretty sure if it went to a vote fans would jump at it if it was that or nothing. Spending 120 million on overall squad improvement wouldn't be a bad idea though.

      You have 11 players that can win the league again if no injuries. We both think it's a luxury buy though. Sadly Ole won't listen to me as I like you would definitely spend 120 million on our defence.

      £120m could be much better spent by us and also by you, you do not need to buy a 20 year old with potential for that amount of money, its crazy. Its the kind of punt a big club would make if they need to drastically freshen up their attack, but that's the one area where your lot are looking good. It is in all regards a weird signing, but a very Man Utd one where money is seemingly no object.
      ConzS
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #141: Aug 04, 2020 10:10:19 am
      With this signing United will definitely have their forward line set up for the next 10+ years. While they’re not a patch on our front 3 currently, they now have 3 young, talented English forwards who are among the most exciting prospects around. It’s just arrogance and bias if you don’t admit that. I imagine in the years to come the figure will become insignificant and will be similar to the Van Dijk situation when, rather than looking at the individual price, we talk about the fact that we spent £85m on our back 4.

      Saying all this it’s just another example of how impressive our position at the summit of English football is when we are surrounded by teams who can throw money about like United, City and Chelsea. Not sure where they are getting this money from considering there’s no talk of selling anyone for significant money, they spent anywhere between £50-70m for Fernandes in January and the considerable drop in revenue caused by Covid.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #142: Aug 04, 2020 10:15:17 am
      With this signing United will definitely have their forward line set up for the next 10+ years. While they’re not a patch on our front 3 currently, they now have 3 young, talented English forwards who are among the most exciting prospects around. It’s just arrogance and bias if you don’t admit that. I imagine in the years to come the figure will become insignificant and will be similar to the Van Dijk situation when, rather than looking at the individual price, we talk about the fact that we spent £85m on our back 4.

      Saying all this it’s just another example of how impressive our position at the summit of English football is when we are surrounded by teams who can throw money about like United, City and Chelsea. Not sure where they are getting this money from considering there’s no talk of selling anyone for significant money, they spent anywhere between £50-70m for Fernandes in January and the considerable drop in revenue caused by Covid.

      No one is doubting that Jadon Snacho has huge potential but sorry he is not even close to being an Mbappe in my opinion, £120m for someone who is yet to really deliver on the big stage is utterly insane, when we spent big money on Virgil and Allison they were already very close to the top of their game and widely recognised as such, but they are the exception to how we normally do business. We have to be smarter and target the next big thing before they emerge, we simply cannot compete with the likes of the Manchester clubs and other petro dollar clubs.

      You say that £120m over 10 years is nothing but what if we doesn't deliver or fails to fit in and ends up being sold for £30m in a few years time, is he still worth the money??
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #143: Aug 04, 2020 10:31:12 am
      What irritates me is the uneven playing field, yourselves, City and Chelsea always spend far more money then the other clubs in the Prem on transfer fees and crucially on wages,

      STOP!! please please don't compare us with City & Chavs. We already know City have cheated and Chavs also have a dubious owner.

      Uniteds revenue comes from having one of the biggest fan basis in the world. 75,000 fans every second week tells its own story so please please let's not go down the jealously route. No English club comes near us in that department so take the rose tinted glasses off. If Liverpool were getting the same crowds in with the same revenue there'd be doing the same thing.

      I'm not making any further comment on this as it's futile with you when you have a bee in your bonnet.  ;D
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #144: Aug 04, 2020 10:32:16 am
      £120m could be much better spent by us and also by you, you do not need to buy a 20 year old with potential for that amount of money, its crazy. Its the kind of punt a big club would make if they need to drastically freshen up their attack, but that's the one area where your lot are looking good. It is in all regards a weird signing, but a very Man Utd one where money is seemingly no object.

      Already agreed on this with KK so nothing new here.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #145: Aug 04, 2020 10:35:13 am
      With this signing United will definitely have their forward line set up for the next 10+ years. While they’re not a patch on our front 3 currently, they now have 3 young, talented English forwards who are among the most exciting prospects around.

      Purely based on stats didn't our front 3 score more than your front 3?
      ConzS
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #146: Aug 04, 2020 10:38:01 am
      No one is doubting that Jadon Snacho has huge potential but sorry he is not even close to being an Mbappe in my opinion, £120m for someone who is yet to really deliver on the big stage is utterly insane, when we spent big money on Virgil and Allison they were already very close to the top of their game and widely recognised as such, but they are the exception to how we normally do business. We have to be smarter and target the next big thing before they emerge, we simply cannot compete with the likes of the Manchester clubs and other petro dollar clubs.

      You say that £120m over 10 years is nothing but what if we doesn't deliver or fails to fit in and ends up being sold for £30m in a few years time, is he still worth the money??
      You know the answer to that. Although I would say that he would need to fall off a cliff to be sold at that price at such a young age and in an ever inflating transfer market. Entirely hypothetical and I could just as easily ask, ‘what if he was sold in a few years for £200m?’

      Anytime you spend big money though it is effectively a gamble. You say Van Dijk was at the top of his game but he really wasn’t. I don’t think many people could really have expected Van Dijk to reach the heights he has. While he was solid and impressive at Southampton and Celtic, he really has reached another level since he joined us. With Alisson, we signed him after one full season as number 1 with Roma. Again, testament to the people involved with his signing.

      Not saying I agree with the money spent by United, especially in the current climate, but just adding a bit of perspective.
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #147: Aug 04, 2020 10:38:31 am
      No one is doubting that Jadon Snacho has huge potential but sorry he is not even close to being an Mbappe in my opinion, £120m for someone who is yet to really deliver on the big stage is utterly insane,

      Can't see where ConzS compares him with Mbappe? Have I missed something?
      ConzS
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #148: Aug 04, 2020 10:49:45 am
      Purely based on stats didn't our front 3 score more than your front 3?
      I thought you would hit out with that. I’ll counter your question with a question. Danny Ings scored more goals than Harry Kane this season, does that make him a better player?

      Far too many variables to take in to account to be basing it purely on that.
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      Re: Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
      Reply #149: Aug 04, 2020 10:58:17 am
      I thought you would hit out with that. I’ll counter your question with a question. Danny Ings scored more goals than Harry Kane this season, does that make him a better player?

      Far too many variables to take in to account to be basing it purely on that.

      Danny Ings ? Is he part of your front 3  ;D Come on ConzS, your scraping the barrel with that one  :lmao:

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