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      George Floyd : Aftermath

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      MIRO
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      George Floyd : Aftermath
      Jun 10, 2020 05:09:21 pm
      If no one objects I would like to kick off a thread in respect of George Floyd and the aftermath of what is happening globally.

      I like others  have been posting in the Trump thread but The Orange Man is a subject well unto himself.

      I was going to start by a post of the lads taking the knee ....but I thought that a song that meant something to me and a black girlfriend of mine a few moons ago is very apt at this stage of what is going down.


      https://youtu.be/PTULqzrhBWA







      Boston not la
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #1: Jun 10, 2020 10:14:09 pm
      Dunno if it's for this thread but NASCAR is banning confederate flags from it's events.That's a pretty big deal with the crowd nascar attracts.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #2: Jun 11, 2020 02:40:31 pm
      We're going to have to rename The Kop with it's colonial roots!!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #3: Jun 11, 2020 02:44:17 pm
      Statues of Christopher Columbus coming under scrutiny now as well as the confederate statues in the U.S.
      This is becoming so much bigger than just about bizzees behaviour. This is now about racism and racist attitudes in society.
      MIRO
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #4: Jun 11, 2020 03:28:39 pm
      Bear Grylls is fu**ed.
      Never liked the c**t.


      Dib Dib Dib  Dob Dob Dob

      Be Prepared  Carry A Condom.
      stuey
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #5: Jun 11, 2020 04:04:36 pm
      Dunno if it's for this thread but NASCAR is banning confederate flags from it's events.That's a pretty big deal with the crowd nascar attracts.

      Trump will be tearing his wig to shreds.
      Boston not la
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #6: Jun 11, 2020 04:32:30 pm
      Statues of Christopher Columbus coming under scrutiny now as well as the confederate statues in the U.S.
      This is becoming so much bigger than just about bizzees behaviour. This is now about racism and racist attitudes in society.
       

      Somebody lopped the head off the one in Boston,city took it down this morning.No idea why someone who never set foot in north america and is responsible for thousands of deaths gets recognition.Italian heritage my arse.
      adammac
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #7: Jun 11, 2020 04:36:09 pm
      Statues of Christopher Columbus coming under scrutiny now as well as the confederate statues in the U.S.
      This is becoming so much bigger than just about bizzees behaviour.

      We are seeing the same thing in Canada though it is more geared towards racism that Indigenous suffered throughout the years. There has been a lot of traction for getting rid of statues of Sir John A MacDonald who was our first Prime Minister and laid the foundations of Canada though in the process treated the natives like sh*t.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #8: Jun 11, 2020 07:48:18 pm
      We are seeing the same thing in Canada though it is more geared towards racism that Indigenous suffered throughout the years. There has been a lot of traction for getting rid of statues of Sir John A MacDonald who was our first Prime Minister and laid the foundations of Canada though in the process treated the natives like sh*t.

      Is racism bad in Canada Adam?
      Boston not la
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #9: Jun 11, 2020 11:05:30 pm
      Racism is bad wherever it happens not just Canada!
      Shabs
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #10: Jun 12, 2020 12:45:10 am
      Yes England has a very dark past but the way this is going, pulling down statues, desecrating monuments, pulling old tv shows and celebs apologising will in my opinion cause more resentment...& take the hate underground..

      We don’t need a race war in this country...

      There is a discussion to have and a method to move on from removing statues in the right way..

      Parents & then schools are the starting point ... it’s been long overdue.

      Forgive me for my ignorance but the Jews &
      Irish have suffered in this country before the Blacks & Asians did, this too needs addressing..
      MIRO
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #11: Jun 12, 2020 02:08:38 am
      Did I hear right today ?

      UK TV have pulled this.

      Enjoy while you can

      https://youtu.be/yfl6Lu3xQW0









      So when is watching "East is East" going to be banned ?

      When do we Scousers march on London to find a statue of Alf Garnett ?
      « Last Edit: Jun 12, 2020 02:16:02 am by MIRO »
      heimdall
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #12: Jun 12, 2020 09:28:18 am
      This is a cultural purge make no mistake about it, it won't be long before there are public book burnings, and its all fuel for the far right groups it will have exactly the opposite reaction to what they want.

      Racism is bad, of course it is, but that is why society has bent over backwards to become more tolerant and welcoming to all, especially in the last 60 years.

      When you have a BAME Mayor of London, Home secretary and Chancellor, BAME Mayor of Bristol and many other places as well, then I really struggle to see this systemic racism which is talked about, can someone give me some examples of systemic racism in modern society.

      And the targeting of statues is absurd, you cannot evaluate historical figures using today's woke standards, if you do that then literally no one will pass the test, so do we rip down all the statues, what about the Colosseum in Rome should we demolish that as well, the gladiators were after all slaves.


      I genuinely hate the term Black Lives Matter because it implies that other lives don't. If Blacks think they have been persecuted throughout history then they need to have a chat with the Jews or are we supposed to believe that the only group that faces or has faced racism are the Blacks?


      As for George Floyd what happened to him was tragic, but so is every death at the hands of police brutality or gang violence, why don't Black Lives Matter campaign to end Gang violence in the US?



      #AllLivesMatter #BeColourBlind
      bazspeedman
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #13: Jun 12, 2020 10:58:48 am
      This is a cultural purge make no mistake about it, it won't be long before there are public book burnings, and its all fuel for the far right groups it will have exactly the opposite reaction to what they want.

      Racism is bad, of course it is, but that is why society has bent over backwards to become more tolerant and welcoming to all, especially in the last 60 years.

      When you have a BAME Mayor of London, Home secretary and Chancellor, BAME Mayor of Bristol and many other places as well, then I really struggle to see this systemic racism which is talked about, can someone give me some examples of systemic racism in modern society.

      And the targeting of statues is absurd, you cannot evaluate historical figures using today's woke standards, if you do that then literally no one will pass the test, so do we rip down all the statues, what about the Colosseum in Rome should we demolish that as well, the gladiators were after all slaves.


      I genuinely hate the term Black Lives Matter because it implies that other lives don't. If Blacks think they have been persecuted throughout history then they need to have a chat with the Jews or are we supposed to believe that the only group that faces or has faced racism are the Blacks?


      As for George Floyd what happened to him was tragic, but so is every death at the hands of police brutality or gang violence, why don't Black Lives Matter campaign to end Gang violence in the US?


      #AllLivesMatter #BeColourBlind

      You've missed the point of the Black Lives Matter campaign in my opinion mate. You can't relate to the racial prejudice black people experience on a daily basis as you are looking at this unfold from a white privileged perspective.

      Of course all lives matter but this movement is in support of Black people and as a White man I feel it is important to pause and listen to the voice of this movement.

      To say "why don't Black Lives Matter campaign to end Gang violence in the US" is completely ridiculous and an example of a White person putting the issue back on Black people as if this is not a white person problem.
      heimdall
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #14: Jun 12, 2020 11:12:40 am
      You've missed the point of the Black Lives Matter campaign in my opinion mate. You can't relate to the racial prejudice black people experience on a daily basis as you are looking at this unfold from a white privileged perspective.

      Of course all lives matter but this movement is in support of Black people and as a White man I feel it is important to pause and listen to the voice of this movement.

      To say "why don't Black Lives Matter campaign to end Gang violence in the US" is completely ridiculous and an example of a White person putting the issue back on Black people as if this is not a white person problem.

      What racial prejudice do Black people suffer every day and why is it worse than the prejudice suffered by Eastern Europeans living in the UK for example? BTW f**k off with the White privilege crap, its been proven repeatedly to be utter nonsense, for example its far easier for a Black student to get into university than white or Asian/Oriental students, in that circumstance there is a very clear bias in favour of Black students, one might even call it racial profiling or just racist or are we to believe that Black students are not as intelligent as white students from the same school/economic background?

      Also why is it ridiculous to suggest BLM should campaign to end gang violence, do they only care if a Black life is ended by a non Black person, if so why?


      If you can detail and demonstrate systemic racism occurring at the moment then I'd be very interested to hear about it as that should not be allowed, otherwise stop with the lazy you are white therefor you can't possibly understand nonsense.
      MIRO
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #15: Jun 12, 2020 11:32:34 am
      Yes England has a very dark past but the way this is going, pulling down statues, desecrating monuments, pulling old tv shows and celebs apologising will in my opinion cause more resentment...& take the hate underground..

      We don’t need a race war in this country...

      There is a discussion to have and a method to move on from removing statues in the right way..

      Parents & then schools are the starting point ... it’s been long overdue.

      Forgive me for my ignorance but the Jews &
      Irish have suffered in this country before the Blacks & Asians did, this too needs addressing..

      Parents and Schools.... long overdue ?

      I'll disagree on that one Shabs.

      Twenty years ago living in Spain, for our boys to learn the mother language we spoke English at home and watched the BBC.

      Cee Beebies was notably disproportionate  in favouring and featuring BAME children in group items, compared to the ethnic percentage of population.

      The state was feeding the propaganda to avoid future racial conflict by this overkill.

      It was blatant and indeed it still is.  Simple fact .
      « Last Edit: Jun 12, 2020 11:37:53 am by MIRO »
      bazspeedman
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #16: Jun 12, 2020 11:39:40 am
      What racial prejudice do Black people suffer every day and why is it worse than the prejudice suffered by Eastern Europeans living in the UK for example? BTW f**k off with the White privilege crap, its been proven repeatedly to be utter nonsense, for example its far easier for a Black student to get into university than white or Asian/Oriental students, in that circumstance there is a very clear bias in favour of Black students, one might even call it racial profiling or just racist or are we to believe that Black students are not as intelligent as white students from the same school/economic background?

      Also why is it ridiculous to suggest BLM should campaign to end gang violence, do they only care if a Black life is ended by a non Black person, if so why?


      If you can detail and demonstrate systemic racism occurring at the moment then I'd be very interested to hear about it as that should not be allowed, otherwise stop with the lazy you are white therefor you can't possibly understand nonsense.

      I'll give you one example. A black teenage girl living close to me was racially targeted and verbally abused with racist comments over a prolonged period of time and committed suicide last year after the torment she endured. There were no charges brought against her racist abusers. I'm sure that wasn't a once off isolated incident.

      There is still an issue of racism in modern society and white people absolutely still receive preferential treatment in many areas. If you disagree that's fine you're equally entitled to your view on this campaign as I am.
      heimdall
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #17: Jun 12, 2020 12:07:36 pm
      I'll give you one example. A black teenage girl living close to me was racially targeted and verbally abused with racist comments over a prolonged period of time and committed suicide last year after the torment she endured. There were no charges brought against her racist abusers. I'm sure that wasn't a once off isolated incident.

      There is still an issue of racism in modern society and white people absolutely still receive preferential treatment in many areas. If you disagree that's fine you're equally entitled to your view on this campaign as I am.

      Ah but this is a different thing, I do not deny that racism still exists, although it is much much less than it was, I'm sure we can all agree on that. You will always have some idiots who are racist and the current move will unfortunately only add to it as telling white people who have shifted massively to become more inclusive and accepting of everyone from every creed, colour and sexuality that they are still inherently bad people will only piss them off and undo all the good work which has been done. It also provides oxygen to the genuine far right groups who were almost completely wiped out.

      I'm still waiting to hear an example of systemic racism and when you have BAME people in positions of power, mayor, home secretary, chancellor etc then I think you will find it very hard to prove that the whole system is rigged against them because it clearly isn't.

      For example Sterling lamenting the lack of Black managers is utter nonsense, there have been quite a few Black managers, but they have almost all been sh*t, e.g Ruud Gullitt, Sol Campbell, John Barnes, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. Its not a lack of opportunity in this case just that the ones who have had the opportunity have so far been sh*t, but as far as I know the FA don't prevent Black players or any one else applying for coaching badges, in fact I'm sure they'd be delighted to have successful BAME managers and coaches as would most sensible people.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #18: Jun 12, 2020 12:24:24 pm
      Ah but this is a different thing, I do not deny that racism still exists, although it is much much less than it was, I'm sure we can all agree on that. You will always have some idiots who are racist and the current move will unfortunately only add to it as telling white people who have shifted massively to become more inclusive and accepting of everyone from every creed, colour and sexuality that they are still inherently bad people will only piss them off and undo all the good work which has been done. It also provides oxygen to the genuine far right groups who were almost completely wiped out.

      I'm still waiting to hear an example of systemic racism and when you have BAME people in positions of power, mayor, home secretary, chancellor etc then I think you will find it very hard to prove that the whole system is rigged against them because it clearly isn't.

      For example Sterling lamenting the lack of Black managers is utter nonsense, there have been quite a few Black managers, but they have almost all been sh*t, e.g Ruud Gullitt, Sol Campbell, John Barnes, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. Its not a lack of opportunity in this case just that the ones who have had the opportunity have so far been sh*t, but as far as I know the FA don't prevent Black players or any one else applying for coaching badges, in fact I'm sure they'd be delighted to have successful BAME managers and coaches as would most sensible people.

      I agree racism is not as widespread in society as it was even 20 years ago. But it still exists, is still inherent in many white people, and black people are still suffering as a result.

      This movement is going to be uncomfortable for white people especially when we see cultural monuments and art with ties to racism/slavery removed. And it's totally fine to feel uncomfortable. But we need to ask ourselves why does this make us uncomfortable?

      As for black managers and coaches in football, yes there are some, but they are an extreme minority in Europe. I can't say if they are not given equal opportunity, perhaps they are, but there is certainly an ethnic imbalance in the numbers employed in these positions.
      heimdall
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #19: Jun 12, 2020 01:05:00 pm
      I agree racism is not as widespread in society as it was even 20 years ago. But it still exists, is still inherent in many white people, and black people are still suffering as a result.

      This movement is going to be uncomfortable for white people especially when we see cultural monuments and art with ties to racism/slavery removed. And it's totally fine to feel uncomfortable. But we need to ask ourselves why does this make us uncomfortable?

      As for black managers and coaches in football, yes there are some, but they are an extreme minority in Europe. I can't say if they are not given equal opportunity, perhaps they are, but there is certainly an ethnic imbalance in the numbers employed in these positions.

      Ah so its only White people who can be racist, you really do believe all the anti-white tropes don't you? By the way I suspect this movement won't last very long, it will fade away, you already see the silent majority starting to rise up to confront it. The reason they do that and the reason they find it uncomfortable is not because they are racist, its because this is about taking away civil liberties, its about censorship, its about erasing the past, trampling on history and traditions, its ultimately about control, telling us how to think and act and the human race doesn't like that, never has never will.

      If this agenda of demonising the white race is pursued you will see a genuine far right party coming to power in the UK, something which has never existed before and I think we can all agree that that would not be good for Black Lives or any lives for that matter.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #20: Jun 12, 2020 01:40:32 pm
      Ah so its only White people who can be racist, you really do believe all the anti-white tropes don't you? By the way I suspect this movement won't last very long, it will fade away, you already see the silent majority starting to rise up to confront it. The reason they do that and the reason they find it uncomfortable is not because they are racist, its because this is about taking away civil liberties, its about censorship, its about erasing the past, trampling on history and traditions, its ultimately about control, telling us how to think and act and the human race doesn't like that, never has never will.

      If this agenda of demonising the white race is pursued you will see a genuine far right party coming to power in the UK, something which has never existed before and I think we can all agree that that would not be good for Black Lives or any lives for that matter.

      I am completely anti censorship mate I find that extremely worrying if used broadly and without validity.

      But if there is a symbol with clear ties to historic racism and persecution then I do not see why it should remain in the public domain just for the sake of "cultural tradition".
      MIRO
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #21: Jun 12, 2020 02:06:37 pm

      Its like Manchester Keith.

      A United fan .... being a minority faction in the North West.
      heimdall
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #22: Jun 12, 2020 03:08:42 pm
      I am completely anti censorship mate I find that extremely worrying if used broadly and without validity.

      But if there is a symbol with clear ties to historic racism and persecution then I do not see why it should remain in the public domain just for the sake of "cultural tradition".

      I agree if its a symbol with clear ties to racism, e.g Hitler, but a lot of these statues are of philanthropists who despite being slave owners or having shares in companies that were involved in the slave trade, as almost anyone with wealth 300+ years ago was one way or another, did an enormous amount of good, for example building hospitals. I think some common sense needs to be applied here and the good weighed against the bad. For example Baden Powell, yes he may have met with Hitler but perhaps he was just f**king naive like many people were back then. In any case I would argue he did far more good than bad and that should be the yard stick to measure people by, no one is perfect, certainly not people who lived 300 years ago when measured with today's values and principles.
      stuey
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #23: Jun 12, 2020 03:20:24 pm
      We are seeing the same thing in Canada though it is more geared towards racism that Indigenous suffered throughout the years. There has been a lot of traction for getting rid of statues of Sir John A MacDonald who was our first Prime Minister and laid the foundations of Canada though in the process treated the natives like sh*t.

      Not to put too finer point on it but America was founded only after the natives of that country were annihilated, Trump and the NRA are determined to retain the tools of destruction and make them freely available.
      The underlying issues are profound while Trump with his arse in the air attempts to appease the gun totin' Republican electorate and the arms manufacturers while cops take the lethal knee.
      MIRO
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      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #24: Jun 12, 2020 03:42:27 pm
      Not to put too finer point on it but America was founded only after the natives of that country were annihilated, Trump and the NRA are determined to retain the tools of destruction and make them freely available.

      The underlying issues are profound while Trump with his arse in the air attempts to appease the gun totin' Republican electorate and the arms manufacturers while cops take the lethal knee.

      Nailed it Stu. Nailed it.

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