Trending Topics

      Next match: Leeds v LFC [Premier League] Mon 19th Apr @ 8:00 pm
      Elland Road

      Today is the 16th of April and on this date LFC's match record is P30 W15 D7 L8

      George Floyd : Aftermath

      Read 3241 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,686 posts | 2709 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #25: Jun 12, 2020 04:14:22 pm
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZQKM9IIqLw

      What are our thoughts on what this Black person says and what would happen if a white person said the same, if this is not racist and an example of Black privilege then I don't know what is.
      adammac
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 4,212 posts | 129 
      • Heart As Big As Liverpool
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #26: Jun 12, 2020 04:59:37 pm

      I can only speak to my experiences as a white male who lives in region which the population is majority white. The type of racism I see is mostly geared toward indigenous people. Majority of it stems from them getting their benefits like not having to pay taxes, hunting/fishing whenever they want, free university/post secondary education, free houses etc and they have major influence with different levels of government. As some of your referred to Canada was found on on driving this group of people out in horrible ways which is why government give them all these benefits but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors which doesn't solve a lot of the issues they have but this topic is a whole different discussion. So I see a lot of racism stem from envy and jealousy.

      I am in my mid 30's and my mother who lived in a town which is next to a Indian Reserve tells stories of when she was young that white males would drive to the reserve, pick up women on side of road and rape them (with no punishment) and when native family moved into the town they were burned out within two weeks. So when I hear those stories and look to what I see while I grew up things have gotten a little better for them but racism is still around.
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 34,155 posts | 3404 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #27: Jun 12, 2020 05:19:14 pm
      I can only speak to my experiences as a white male who lives in region which the population is majority white. The type of racism I see is mostly geared toward indigenous people. Majority of it stems from them getting their benefits like not having to pay taxes, hunting/fishing whenever they want, free university/post secondary education, free houses etc and they have major influence with different levels of government. As some of your referred to Canada was found on on driving this group of people out in horrible ways which is why government give them all these benefits but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors which doesn't solve a lot of the issues they have but this topic is a whole different discussion. So I see a lot of racism stem from envy and jealousy.

      I am in my mid 30's and my mother who lived in a town which is next to a Indian Reserve tells stories of when she was young that white males would drive to the reserve, pick up women on side of road and rape them (with no punishment) and when native family moved into the town they were burned out within two weeks. So when I hear those stories and look to what I see while I grew up things have gotten a little better for them but racism is still around.


      Saw a documentary about Canadian Indians and the comments you make were of a similar nature, most shocking was the reluctance to report the likes of rape, assault and other serious crimes to the authorities.
      As in parts of the US there are areas of Canada where indigenous people are given no credibility.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 12,977 posts | 3117 
      • I Love My A.M.G.
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #28: Jun 12, 2020 05:29:06 pm
      Saw a documentary about Canadian Indians and the comments you make were of a similar nature, most shocking was the reluctance to report the likes of rape, assault and other serious crimes to the authorities.
      As in parts of the US there are areas of Canada where indigenous people are given no credibility.

      As there was in Oz until fairly recent date  with the Aboriginal nation.

      The White Man has a lot to  answer for.

      I remember that I used to say to people that our boys learning French and Spanish meant they could go anywhere in the world with  English as well.

      Then it occurred to me that those countries were the biggest colonialists .

      We being number one.
      LFCexiled
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 4,423 posts | 1730 
      • Lazarus of LFC
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #29: Jun 12, 2020 06:08:42 pm
      Apparently all London's monuments are safe, as we speak delegates from the football lads alliance are on their way to London to protect them.

      Phew.
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 26,069 posts | 3843 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #30: Jun 12, 2020 09:58:45 pm
      RedPuppy
      • WASH YOUR HANDS
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 18,276 posts | 2360 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #31: Jun 13, 2020 09:30:20 am
      Dunno if it's for this thread but NASCAR is banning confederate flags from it's events.That's a pretty big deal with the crowd nascar attracts.

      https://twitter.com/Stop_Trump20/status/1271133515531288577?s=19
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,686 posts | 2709 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #32: Jun 13, 2020 10:14:32 am

      erm, I wonder how Nascar's fans will react to this, not this driver but the banning of a flag which is synonymous with the sport. Does Nascar have such a huge following in the Black or Liberal communities that they felt they had to respond in this way and what will they do when fans turn up Indy 500 etc with confederate flags, will they refuse them admission?

      It is so tedious how all companies, Media outlets and governments are so desperate not to be called racist that they will do whatever a neo-marxist pressure group tells them to do, its so weak, so spineless, so out of touch with society.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 12,977 posts | 3117 
      • I Love My A.M.G.
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #33: Jun 13, 2020 11:29:24 am

      Check any local statue in your  town and find out if they received compensation after the abolition of slavery.
      It may surprise you.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,686 posts | 2709 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #34: Jun 13, 2020 11:37:07 am
      Check any local statue in your  town and find out if they received compensation after the abolition of slavery.
      It may surprise you.

      What's your point about this, without compensating the slave owners there was no way it would have been abolished, its the equivalent of demanding all companies now triple the salaries of all workers with immediate effect without any bridging loan to help them out. 
      The only thing that matters is that slavery was abolished and it was Great Britain that led the way in that, that's something it should be immensely proud of.
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 34,155 posts | 3404 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #35: Jun 13, 2020 12:13:06 pm
      Penny Lane has been vandalised in the light of a shipping company owner called James  Penny transporting slaves even though Penny Lane existed long before the man arrived in the city and there is no record of him having any connection with this area of Liverpool.

      It was called Pennis Lane previously and a toll of one penny was charged to proceed.

      There are dozens of thoroughfares in England using the word 'penny' as a title, should they all be vandalised?
      « Last Edit: Jun 13, 2020 12:28:40 pm by stuey »
      RedPuppy
      • WASH YOUR HANDS
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 18,276 posts | 2360 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #36: Jun 13, 2020 12:33:17 pm
      erm, I wonder how Nascar's fans will react to this, not this driver but the banning of a flag which is synonymous with the sport. Does Nascar have such a huge following in the Black or Liberal communities that they felt they had to respond in this way and what will they do when fans turn up Indy 500 etc with confederate flags, will they refuse them admission?

      It is so tedious how all companies, Media outlets and governments are so desperate not to be called racist that they will do whatever a neo-marxist pressure group tells them to do, its so weak, so spineless, so out of touch with society.

      I don't think some will take well to it, 1st Amendment (?) and all that, but 'racists' and people with questionable ideals (IMHO), don't like being told what to do, and that is the problem, they don't care how their actions affect others, and that goes for both sides.

      I used to like the Dukes of Hazard and the Car with the flag on the roof, i thought was cool, now, well, I miss it, had some nice memories but that was then and this is now, and if I knew then, what I know now, I wouldn't have watched it, and you can say that about a lot of things.

      People need to realise times have changed and the world will be a better place, but that is never going to happen.

      Companies don't really care, they are just going with social opinion. They only care about the Dollar. If they cared they would still be manufacturing in the Western countries, but they can have child labour in 3rd world countries to maintain their bonus's and profits. We are a throw away society, and the demand for disposable products won't go away, so corporate slavery will continue.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,686 posts | 2709 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #37: Jun 13, 2020 12:48:57 pm
      I don't think some will take well to it, 1st Amendment (?) and all that, but 'racists' and people with questionable ideals (IMHO), don't like being told what to do, and that is the problem, they don't care how their actions affect others, and that goes for both sides.

      I used to like the Dukes of Hazard and the Car with the flag on the roof, i thought was cool, now, well, I miss it, had some nice memories but that was then and this is now, and if I knew then, what I know now, I wouldn't have watched it, and you can say that about a lot of things.

      People need to realise times have changed and the world will be a better place, but that is never going to happen.

      Companies don't really care, they are just going with social opinion. They only care about the Dollar. If they cared they would still be manufacturing in the Western countries, but they can have child labour in 3rd world countries to maintain their bonus's and profits. We are a throw away society, and the demand for disposable products won't go away, so corporate slavery will continue.


      Sorry but you'll have to explain to me what's racist about Dukes of Hazard, I thought that was just an entertaining show set in the deep south and therefore featuring the confederate flag, which you do actually find in the deep south. Why should a show not reflect the reality of its time or location.

      You will not eliminate racism by banning free speech, you eliminate racism by looking at the past and learning from it. For example someone watching  "Love Thy Neighbour" about a racist white guy will not sympathise with him but feel revulsion, that's very important, the laughs in that show, even at the time, were at him not with him. By banning programs like this and censoring history how will future generations have any frame of reference for what racism is?

      By the way my point about media, companies and politicians is that they are not going with the public on this, they are listening to a very tiny but very noisy minority, that is extremely dangerous in the long run because it provides fertile ground for populist far right politics who will use this situation and twist it for their own purposes.
      RedPuppy
      • WASH YOUR HANDS
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 18,276 posts | 2360 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #38: Jun 13, 2020 01:42:40 pm

      Sorry but you'll have to explain to me what's racist about Dukes of Hazard, I thought that was just an entertaining show set in the deep south and therefore featuring the confederate flag, which you do actually find in the deep south. Why should a show not reflect the reality of its time or location.

      You will not eliminate racism by banning free speech, you eliminate racism by looking at the past and learning from it. For example someone watching  "Love Thy Neighbour" about a racist white guy will not sympathise with him but feel revulsion, that's very important, the laughs in that show, even at the time, were at him not with him. By banning programs like this and censoring history how will future generations have any frame of reference for what racism is?

      By the way my point about media, companies and politicians is that they are not going with the public on this, they are listening to a very tiny but very noisy minority, that is extremely dangerous in the long run because it provides fertile ground for populist far right politics who will use this situation and twist it for their own purposes.

      Well yes, it's the Car, General Lee, Boss Hogg, etc. as you said, it's of it's time.

      I don't think the said programs should be banned, as with flashing lights, maybe have a disclaimer/warning.

      Fair point about the Company thing.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,686 posts | 2709 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #39: Jun 13, 2020 01:48:51 pm
      By the way if we think its bad here in the UK its much much worse in the US where they are seriously talking about cutting police budgets in LA and New York and other places, WTF is that about?? I'd love to get the thoughts of some of our American friends on that, does the Black community really want fewer police in their neighbourhoods, will that not inevitably lead to more crime?  BTW I totally agree that some police reforms are much overdue for example banning choke holds etc but cutting police budgets is literally insane.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 12,977 posts | 3117 
      • I Love My A.M.G.
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #40: Jun 13, 2020 02:31:09 pm

      What I said.

      Check the history of your local hero. May surprise you.

      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 12,977 posts | 3117 
      • I Love My A.M.G.
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #41: Jun 13, 2020 02:33:46 pm

      Sorry but you'll have to explain to me what's racist about Dukes of Hazard, I thought that was just an entertaining show set in the deep south and therefore featuring the confederate flag, which you do actually find in the deep south. Why should a show not reflect the reality of its time or location.



      It was produced by a guy called Skip .
       ;D


      P.S.
      Enough of having everyone to explain everything twice to you H.

      Boston not la
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,564 posts | 763 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #42: Jun 13, 2020 03:10:40 pm
      By the way if we think its bad here in the UK its much much worse in the US where they are seriously talking about cutting police budgets in LA and New York and other places, WTF is that about?? I'd love to get the thoughts of some of our American friends on that, does the Black community really want fewer police in their neighbourhoods, will that not inevitably lead to more crime?  BTW I totally agree that some police reforms are much overdue for example banning choke holds etc but cutting police budgets is literally insane.
       

      Problem is you don't wanna listen.You've got your weird agenda and no matter what i or anyone else says you ain't gonna concede.deflect and distract hence the video of the grifter/snake oil salesmen you tube vid you posted.
      LFCexiled
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 4,423 posts | 1730 
      • Lazarus of LFC
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #43: Jun 13, 2020 03:11:46 pm
      All this bollocks about statues could be easily solved. Remove all statues erected to commemorate those involved with slavery and put them in a dedicated museum, I doubt those 'protecting' them today would be arsed traveling to London to go and see them but at least they could if they so wished.

      In place of the removed statues put up some new ones to people who've contributed to society in a positive and meaningful way, suffragettes, scientists, those who've helped charities etc, maybe even 'normal' people who've done extraordinary things to benefit society.

      Or just f**k statues of and completely and put up play areas or communal meeting areas.

      Just stop f**king fighting over crusty old men, London looks like wetherspoons on a Saturday night.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,314 posts | 5173 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #44: Jun 13, 2020 03:26:01 pm
      erm, I wonder how Nascar's fans will react to this, not this driver but the banning of a flag which is synonymous with the sport. Does Nascar have such a huge following in the Black or Liberal communities that they felt they had to respond in this way and what will they do when fans turn up Indy 500 etc with confederate flags, will they refuse them admission?

      It is so tedious how all companies, Media outlets and governments are so desperate not to be called racist that they will do whatever a neo-marxist pressure group tells them to do, its so weak, so spineless, so out of touch with society.

      You're the only one out of touch with reality, this and your other diatribe on the other page is utter Qanon bullshit. Don't you realise in the states racism is so much bigger than what me & you could possibly comprehend. It's about slavery, segregation and the fact the police were used to uphold these laws and attitudes that still prevail today.

      It might not be as bad in this country, but we still have our societal racism, the whole disgrace of Windrush.

      Nascar have banned that flag cos it's a racist flag pure and simple. What it represents goes against everything modern-day America stands against.

      Black Lives Matter is so much more than a neo-marxist pressure group, it's the streets rising telling the white rich ruling class than it needs to f**king change!
      « Last Edit: Jun 13, 2020 06:30:45 pm by HUYTON RED »
      LFCexiled
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 4,423 posts | 1730 
      • Lazarus of LFC
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #45: Jun 13, 2020 03:35:59 pm
      There's plenty of information out there about defund the police. To take the simplistic view that we need police officers or the criminals will run crazy is idiotic.

      Defund the police is about moving resources to a place that can better deal with the issue the original resource is meant to assist with.

      In America police are walking around with kit that is military grade, excessive and not required. Giving police minimal training in mental health is pointless.

      Police in the UK shouldn't be held up on a job for 8 hours dealing with a mental health issue, the money for dealing with this should be diverted to actual mental health services and this would free up police to actually police rather than be stuck in a hospital for hours on end because there aren't any mental health workers available.

      America and the UK need the same things to happen.

      We need more money allocated to mental health, affordable/public housing, youth activities, organisations, rehab facilities. Take care of the problems before society pays the price.

      The US have absolutely massive policing budgets and they could easily accommodate both. The UK is different, we've had ten years of police numbers and policing budget cuts by the tories, basically the UK is fu**ed because the police here haven't got anything to defund, they're working on a f**king shoestring anyway.

      And before anyone says, I understand that none of this will happen with trump and boris in power but that doesn't detract from the fact these things need to happen.

      “Defunding the police means shrinking the scope of police responsibilities and shifting most of what government does to keep us safe to entities that are better equipped to meet that need,” she explains. “It means investing more in mental-health care and housing, and expanding the use of community mediation and violence interruption programs.”

      In practice, “defunding” means redirecting money from police budgets in cities where departments are disproportionately funded. In Boston, for example, the police department’s budget is $414 million — four times larger than that of the Boston Public Health Commission.

      In Los Angeles, the LAPD has a budget of $1.8 billion, yet it still also utilizes more than half of the city’s “unrestricted funds,” — tax revenues, fees and fines — earmarked for discretionary expenditures.

      In Chicago, home to the second-largest police force in the U.S., taxpayers spend about $5 million a day on policing efforts. As the Chicago Sun-Times reports, that’s the equivalent of “five months of mental health services ($9.4 million per year), 18 months of substance abuse treatment ($2.6 million per year), or 32 months of violence prevention programs ($1.5 million per year).”

      “Defund the police” proponents argue that rerouting of meaningful portions of those budgets into health and social services better equipped to deal with certain issues is a more appropriate and effective way to meet the needs of a community.

      https://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/What-is-defund-the-police-abolish-police-203572.php
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 34,155 posts | 3404 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #46: Jun 13, 2020 03:46:15 pm
      All this bollocks about statues could be easily solved. Remove all statues erected to commemorate those involved with slavery and put them in a dedicated museum, I doubt those 'protecting' them today would be arsed traveling to London to go and see them but at least they could if they so wished.

      In place of the removed statues put up some new ones to people who've contributed to society in a positive and meaningful way, suffragettes, scientists, those who've helped charities etc, maybe even 'normal' people who've done extraordinary things to benefit society.

      Or just f**k statues of and completely and put up play areas or communal meeting areas.

      Just stop f**king fighting over crusty old men, London looks like wetherspoons on a Saturday night.

      Spot on Ian, the Churchill statue is now covered and there are proposals to move it to a museum.
      It should be put in Madame Tussauds next to other war criminals.
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 26,069 posts | 3843 
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #47: Jun 13, 2020 04:02:54 pm
      I’m
      Of the opinion that the statues should remain or at worse placed in a museum.. what we are witnessing now is further racial divisions in society... yes England has to answer for it past but you won’t get change by tearing down statues.. your going to get more resentment..
      LFCexiled
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 4,423 posts | 1730 
      • Lazarus of LFC
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #48: Jun 13, 2020 04:20:28 pm
      I’m
      Of the opinion that the statues should remain or at worse placed in a museum.. what we are witnessing now is further racial divisions in society... yes England has to answer for it past but you won’t get change by tearing down statues.. your going to get more resentment..

      Resentment from who?

      At the moment people have travelled to London protecting sh*t that they never knew existed a week ago and now they're offended? I even know some of them, they're f**king dickheads kicking off in the name of football, I think we've had enough of that sh*t haven't we?

      F**k them.

      Move them to a museum so they can go and visit them any time they want, they won't.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 12,977 posts | 3117 
      • I Love My A.M.G.
      Re: George Floyd : Aftermath
      Reply #49: Jun 13, 2020 04:28:51 pm

      Just stop f**king fighting over crusty old men, London looks like Wetherspoons on a Saturday night.


       :lmao:

      Quick Reply