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      Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)

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      Kopite78
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #550: Sep 08, 2020 09:02:01 am
      Out of interest who would you rather have in the team, Gini or Thiago?

      Both excellent players

      As long as we have one or the other we will be sound
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #551: Sep 08, 2020 09:04:29 am
      Out of interest who would you rather have in the team, Gini or Thiago?

      Gini. He's already part of the team. He knows the system. Not doubting Thiago's ability, but I like what we've done with Gini in the team.  So long as he wants to be here, I'm fine with Gini.
      heimdall
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #552: Sep 08, 2020 09:14:14 am
      Gini. He's already part of the team. He knows the system. Not doubting Thiago's ability, but I like what we've done with Gini in the team.  So long as he wants to be here, I'm fine with Gini.

      OK that explains your position, you see I'd rather have Thiago, I think he would bring a lot more to the team, plus I don't like keeping players who don't want to be here as that can disrupt team harmony and Gini refusing to sign a new contract indicates someone who wants to leave doesn't it?
      Kopite78
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #553: Sep 08, 2020 09:18:55 am
      OK that explains your position, you see I'd rather have Thiago, I think he would bring a lot more to the team, plus I don't like keeping players who don't want to be here as that can disrupt team harmony and Gini refusing to sign a new contract indicates someone who wants to leave doesn't it?

      No it doesnt, not necessarily, that's where you're presuming.
      It might be that the deal doesnt suit rather than he wants to leave

      You have to put yourself in their position, would you just sign the first thing put under your nose?

      It doesnt necessarily mean he wants to leave that he hasnt signed a deal.

      heimdall
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #554: Sep 08, 2020 09:21:37 am
      No it doesnt, not necessarily, that's where you're presuming.
      It might be that the deal doesnt suit rather than he wants to leave

      You have to put yourself in their position, would you just sign the first thing put under your nose?

      It doesnt necessarily mean he wants to leave that he hasnt signed a deal.



      OK, I get haggling over a new contract to get a few more thousand or an extra year etc, but it seems as if all negotiations have stopped between the club and the player, that is not a good sign is it?
      Kopite78
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #555: Sep 08, 2020 09:24:15 am
      OK, I get haggling over a new contract to get a few more thousand or an extra year etc, but it seems as if all negotiations have stopped between the club and the player, that is not a good sign is it?

      It's too hard to say, we honestly dont know what talks are going on.
      That's not being pedantic but I dont know and neither do you what talks are happening

      The club are very good at keeping their cards close to their chest
      heimdall
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #556: Sep 08, 2020 09:26:17 am
      It's too hard to say, we honestly dont know what talks are going on.
      That's not being pedantic but I dont know and neither do you what talks are happening

      The club are very good at keeping their cards close to their chest

      I agree with that, I can only base it on what rumours I hear, but I'm a big believer in no smoke without fire, unless its just one lone nutjob on twitter spouting sh*t!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #557: Sep 08, 2020 10:17:59 am
      I agree with that, I can only base it on what rumours I hear, but I'm a big believer in no smoke without fire, unless its just one lone nutjob on twitter spouting sh*t!

      Thing about the smoke and fire analogy is that fog looks like smoke sometimes. Dry ice gives off something that looks like smoke, etc.

      And I don't think not signing a deal means someone wants to go.. someone signs a contract for X years, that's all he's bound for. Gini shoes no signs of lacking commitment.
      billythered
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #558: Sep 08, 2020 10:26:43 am
      I would like to see the evidence that Gini actually wants to leave, from what iv’e seen it’s only click bait, put yourself in Gini’s boots, to him I imagine he feels he’s a integral part of the squad and perhaps his current contract does not reflect that, could this be the reason why there is some doubt over his future ?

      Maybe he feels he’s worth more than any new contract offered, not saying he’s going to hold the club to ransom, aka Emre Can , but perhaps it’s not quite what he expected, Koeman’s appointment at the camp nou has fuelled the flames that going double Dutch would best suit Gini, again pure speculation, there’s plenty of unanswered questions and one really sticks out for me.....

      .....Why in the name of holy f**k would you want to leave a team where you get regular playing time, are a integral part of that team, have regular CL football with the added impetus that you can go all the way, and have the honour of being a part of perhaps the most successful spell in that clubs illustrious history, working with the best manager this side of the Milky Way, and have hero worship amongst its fans, .....why the f**k would you want to turn your back on all of that just to say to your grand kids you played for Barcelona ?

      Ssh, don’t mention this to Gini, Barca are no longer the global giant they once were !






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      GERNS
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #559: Sep 08, 2020 11:16:44 am
      Just reading  through these last posts, and my take on it is, if there’s no sign within, that Gini is going to commit himself after this season, now is the time to get Thiago, or someone of his ilk, to get them to a level (Liverpool style) where they will just slot in with no disruption when Gini does move on. Getting games in this season, will be better than just dropping him into the side, with little preparation next season 🤷‍♂️
      heimdall
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #560: Sep 08, 2020 11:54:07 am
      OK I read the Swiss ramble thing and realise and accept that we are not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 but can someone please explain to me how the hell Everton have been able to spend £255m compared to our £100m over the last 5 years??? and yes I of course accept we've had more success but I'm just talking financials here as I still don't get it.

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      Total           Eve £255m   Liv £100m spent
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #561: Sep 08, 2020 12:01:12 pm
      OK I read the Swiss ramble thing and realise and accept that we are not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 but can someone please explain to me how the hell Everton have been able to spend £255m compared to our £100m over the last 5 years??? and yes I of course accept we've had more success but I'm just talking financials here as I still don't get it.

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      Total           Eve £255m   Liv £100m spent

      Guessing you missed the article that recently said that had FFP not been changed then Everton would have been caught out and how they are the biggest beneficiaries of the change. They posted record losses, they won’t get away with it forever, when they get looked into then they can’t pay their way out of it like City did.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #562: Sep 08, 2020 12:01:26 pm
      OK I read the Swiss ramble thing and realise and accept that we are not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 but can someone please explain to me how the hell Everton have been able to spend £255m compared to our £100m over the last 5 years??? and yes I of course accept we've had more success but I'm just talking financials here as I still don't get it.

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      Total           Eve £255m   Liv £100m spent

      Their wage bill is around 10m a year less than ours

      They have lost 95m over the last 3 seasons (10m inside the maximum they can lose in that period)

      So average that out they lose around 32m a year

      We made a 42m profit last time the books were released

      Just a different way of running clubs I guess. They make a loss, we make a profit

      Oh and we are champions of everything, they are bitter cu*ts who can only dream about being us
      heimdall
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #563: Sep 08, 2020 12:03:44 pm
      Guessing you missed the article that recently said that had FFP not been changed then Everton would have been caught out and how they are the biggest beneficiaries of the change. They posted record losses, they won’t get away with it forever, when they get looked into then they can’t pay their way out of it like City did.

      I did miss that, but its more a case of how on earth can they sustain these losses without any success?
      TameImpala
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #564: Sep 08, 2020 12:05:46 pm
      I did miss that, but its more a case of how on earth can they sustain these losses without any success?


      They can't. They'll be in for a rude awakening in the next few years
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #565: Sep 08, 2020 12:07:43 pm
      I did miss that, but its more a case of how on earth can they sustain these losses without any success?

      They can’t, which is why they were going to come unstuck this year up until FFP was relaxed for a year. It’s only a matter of time until it catches up with them.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #566: Sep 08, 2020 01:06:55 pm
      OK I read the Swiss ramble thing and realise and accept that we are not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 but can someone please explain to me how the hell Everton have been able to spend £255m compared to our £100m over the last 5 years??? and yes I of course accept we've had more success but I'm just talking financials here as I still don't get it.

      20/21   Eve -50      Liv +26
      19/20   Eve -40      Liv +3
      18/19   Eve -62      Liv -145
      17/18   Eve -77      Liv +12
      16/17   Eve -26      Liv +3

      Total           Eve £255m   Liv £100m spent

      Everton made losses of over £120mil , their wage bill is 85% of their income , if they don’t get CL football they will be fu**ed and will need to sell players

      They are taking big risks
      srslfc
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #567: Sep 08, 2020 02:33:56 pm
      Both excellent players

      As long as we have one or the other we will be sound

      Yep.

      Ideal world we have both but if it is a choice between the two for me I'd lean towards Thiago.

      I'm a huge fan of Gini but brining in a new player just has that extra dimension to things and freshens the squad up without losing any quality and possibly gaining something a bit different.
      FL Red
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #568: Sep 08, 2020 03:25:34 pm
      Yep.

      Ideal world we have both but if it is a choice between the two for me I'd lean towards Thiago.

      I'm a huge fan of Gini but brining in a new player just has that extra dimension to things and freshens the squad up without losing any quality and possibly gaining something a bit different.

      I'm torn...there's something to be said for continuity and integration. But, I do feel like Thiago has a different game than Gini. One reason why I think it's odd that we have to get rid of one to bring in the other. I actually see Thiago more as competition for Keita than Gini.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #569: Sep 08, 2020 05:10:05 pm
      I'm torn...there's something to be said for continuity and integration. But, I do feel like Thiago has a different game than Gini. One reason why I think it's odd that we have to get rid of one to bring in the other. I actually see Thiago more as competition for Keita than Gini.
      From what I have seen, I think Thiago and Gini are different players but there's a couple of things they both do well which is not getting dispossessed under pressure. Gini does that very well in order to escape his pressers and send the ball sideways to somebody a bit more free so we can start the attack

      Thiago is overall a bit less mobile than Gini but he has those little bursts that Gini does not have. He absorbs the pressure very well but can burst a few yards past his pressers, look up, and finish the move with a nice pass, effectively neutralizing a line or two of the opposition pressure blocks.

      The other thing they do both do very well is applying pressure. Gini does that with energy while Thiago does it with positional awareness and being able to see where the ball is going and showing up at the good spot at the right time.

      Both amazing players that are very well equipped for modern pressing football. I'll be thrilled if we can keep Gini and slightly more thrilled if we can get Thiago because the latter is more of a complete midfielder. I also think Thiago is more well equipped to play into his 30's than Gini is because he relies on his vision and reading of the field a bit more than Gini who compensates for this with an unbelievable work ethic and energy (I'll never forget how he literally came of the bench to electrify the whole of Anfield against Barcelona)
      redtiler
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #570: Sep 10, 2020 09:43:35 pm
      Gini. He's already part of the team. He knows the system. Not doubting Thiago's ability, but I like what we've done with Gini in the team.  So long as he wants to be here, I'm fine with Gini.

      Gini is good at what he does,  but where does he and his agent want to be. 
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #571: Sep 10, 2020 11:25:48 pm
      Gini is good at what he does,  but where does he and his agent want to be.

      All smiles in the training video from today. I expect him in the starting XI Saturday.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #572: Sep 11, 2020 10:52:29 am
      I have a theory on us bringing in Thiago which I now believe will happen.

      Klopp has experimented with a 4-2-3-1 formation in pre season with Minamino playing a free attacking role behind Bobby. If Klopp wants to use this formation more often this season then Gini has the ability to play behind Bobby also as he does so for the Netherlands and has stated that this is his preferred position.

      So I believe Klopp may have plans to play Gini in a more advanced role rotating with Minamino. This will allow Thiago to rotate with Fab next to Naby or Hendo in a two man midfield which can switch seamlessly to a 4-3-3 formation within games.

      Swab
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #573: Sep 11, 2020 11:22:20 am
      I have a theory on us bringing in Thiago which I now believe will happen.

      Klopp has experimented with a 4-2-3-1 formation in pre season with Minamino playing a free attacking role behind Bobby. If Klopp wants to use this formation more often this season then Gini has the ability to play behind Bobby also as he does so for the Netherlands and has stated that this is his preferred position.

      So I believe Klopp may have plans to play Gini in a more advanced role rotating with Minamino. This will allow Thiago to rotate with Fab next to Naby or Hendo in a two man midfield which can switch seamlessly to a 4-3-3 formation within games.

      This is a decent shout.

      We've played 4231 quite a few times in the past.
      It still allows the FB's to get forwards, and gives us a different attacking shape, so yes, I think we'll see more of it this coming season.
      skamp
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      Re: Thiago Alcantara (Bayern Munich)
      Reply #574: Sep 11, 2020 11:57:12 am
      I have a theory on us bringing in Thiago which I now believe will happen.

      Klopp has experimented with a 4-2-3-1 formation in pre season with Minamino playing a free attacking role behind Bobby. If Klopp wants to use this formation more often this season then Gini has the ability to play behind Bobby also as he does so for the Netherlands and has stated that this is his preferred position.

      So I believe Klopp may have plans to play Gini in a more advanced role rotating with Minamino. This will allow Thiago to rotate with Fab next to Naby or Hendo in a two man midfield which can switch seamlessly to a 4-3-3 formation within games.
      Sounds good in theory but my feeling is there's no chance Thiago comes here unless Gini leaves; if he stays, I'd be astonished if we make the signing. 

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