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      Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match

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      Scottbot
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #300: Aug 29, 2020 08:41:47 pm
      By there being a team member on the end if it, quite obvious isn't it?

      So a great cross is only a great cross if someone gets in the end if it? Why have a pop at Robertson when he was out best player today? Defended well, Got forward, Put in three or four fantastic crosses, some were well defended but a couple simply needed some fellow reds to gamble a little and there was one in particular where Salah was simply caught in his heels. Your posts when we lose are just about the worst on the board Unfortunately, dripping in negativity and sarcasm.
      heimdall
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #301: Aug 29, 2020 09:02:00 pm
      So a great cross is only a great cross if someone gets in the end if it? Why have a pop at Robertson when he was out best player today? Defended well, Got forward, Put in three or four fantastic crosses, some were well defended but a couple simply needed some fellow reds to gamble a little and there was one in particular where Salah was simply caught in his heels. Your posts when we lose are just about the worst on the board Unfortunately, dripping in negativity and sarcasm.

      Yeah sorry for not being delighted at losing! For large parts of the match today we were completely outplayed, including the last 10 minutes.
      Our front three continue their recent poor form, we are seemingly in the brink of bankruptcy with zero transfer funds for a second consecutive summer whilst our two main rivals strengthen significantly, but hey its all good buddy, trust in Jürgen the miracle man yes.

      BTW on reflection Robbo was OK, I was harsh on him but I wish he was better at finishing his chances.
      redtiler
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #302: Aug 29, 2020 09:17:31 pm
      So a great cross is only a great cross if someone gets in the end if it? Why have a pop at Robertson when he was out best player today? Defended well, Got forward, Put in three or four fantastic crosses, some were well defended but a couple simply needed some fellow reds to gamble a little and there was one in particular where Salah was simply caught in his heels. Your posts when we lose are just about the worst on the board Unfortunately, dripping in negativity and sarcasm.

      As a plus, Andy made 11 chance crosses today, best player today be far.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #303: Aug 29, 2020 09:22:38 pm
      If you need any other confirmation about the quality Thiago brings just listen to the Pros about what he offers I am pretty sure they know a little more than people on here
      Oh I'm convinced about his qualities and that he would significantly improve us by giving us various tactical options but I was just asking in order to get a better idea of what people here think after watching our first ''competitive'' game of the season if you may call it so.

      Some people are adamant that we don't need him and that we could spend the 20-30M he's rumoured to be shopped around for better (I dont understand that and was just wondering what would be the general line of thought these people have after watching us encounter creative problems similar to those we might encounter all season long where even the bigger teams might sit in lower blocks and some might also combine that successfully with choking one of our fullbacks leaving one clear thing/flank to defend all game).

      I think this game, in a nutshell, is representative of what we might face off against all year long. The other 19 managers are not stupid and a lot of them will adapt much better than they did last year. Chelsea,  City, United and Arsenal are all different beasts already from what we faced last year. I think it would serve us well to also be ''different beasts'' by the time we face off with them.
      « Last Edit: Aug 29, 2020 09:27:47 pm by PolarBearRed »
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #304: Aug 30, 2020 12:50:17 am
      I never like to comment on other teams tactics or how they set up but f**k me they are no different to sh*te like Burnley them.

      I wonder how their fans feel. They’ve been spoilt watching some great attacking football over the years and now they have to put up with that absolute sh*te. I don’t mean to sound bitter but hand on heart, if  we had a sh*te team and we were playing somebody superior, id honestly prefer to see us have a go and lose, than watch us park the double decker with 10% possession and win. I couldn’t be dealing with that me.

      Right moving on to us. We controlled the game but didn’t do enough to win it basically. We had all the possession but didn’t create enough. I thought it  was evident once more that we lack a creative midfielder. When teams sit deep like that we don’t half struggle. As we know we are at our best when we counter attack or press teams. When we have as much possession as we did today then we can look bang average at times.

      I thought williams was out of his depth to be honest and showed he’s still a long way off playing at this level. Some may find that harsh perhaps but I’m a believer that age is irrelevant and you’re either good enough or you’re not and at the moment I wouldn’t say he is. It’s difficult for the lad because he’s going to be compared to trent whenever he plays who is the best right back in the world but that’s just the level we’re at now.

      Didn’t think Milner or Gini had the best of games. Neither are particularly the best on the ball so they always struggle in games like this; they’re more suited against teams who attack us when they press and hunt thr ball down.  I thought we looked much better when Keita came on, who I was surprised to see on the bench rather then Milner. Minamino made us better too.

      The front three had no space to cause Arsenal any damage and I barely remember Firmino touching the ball. Salah and mane were restricted to half chances mostly.

      Am I worried or concerned in any way? No. But I do think a lot more teams will set up similarly against us this season and we could do with a different type of player in midfield for these type of games. I don’t want him back but these are the type of game’s coutinho really excels in. Somebody who has the capability of unlocking a tight defence or hitting a shot from nowhere that flys in or makes the keeper parry it into the forwards path. We don't have anybody like that currently.

      Not one of those reds who pretends my world has come crashing down whenever we lose, nor am I one who rubbishes today off as a friendly either. I’m somewhere in the middle. A bit frustrated but we move on.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #305: Aug 30, 2020 01:01:21 am
      Biggest errors were from Klopp today. Milner should have started at RB in place of Williams, Keita should have been in the midfield from the start and Brewster shouldn’t have had his first touch of the game as a penalty after coming on 30 seconds before the end.

      On a side note, as good as Alisson is, all the penalties we have faced with him in goal, I don’t remember him getting close to a single one. I could be wrong but saving penalties is probably the only weak area of his game.

      Spot on mate. I knew we were fu**ed as soon as it went to pennos.

      In all the penalties Ali has had to face since being here, I cannot remember a single penalty that wasn't converted. He doesn't even get close. Great shot stopper but his penalty reactions are terrible.

      Feel sorry for Rhian, he looked worried walking up, tried to be a bit of a hero but no way is that his fault. Jürgen and Virgil as Captain at the time have to say, Rhian great u put your hand up, commend u on that but no way are you taking a pen. Especially not the 3rd one which is the most crucial pen to take apart from the winning one. Virg should have said I'm f**king taking it . End of!


      Just hope now that Rhian is not sent out on loan and gets a chance to put it right with us. If he goes off now, he'll be stewing on that for a long, long time, which may have detrimental effects on him.


      « Last Edit: Aug 30, 2020 01:35:42 am by AussieRed »
      GERNS
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #306: Aug 30, 2020 08:22:41 am
      Well all in all, it was a draw from two teams of polar opposites. One wanting to play the game, and one happy to defend with 10 men for 85 minutes.
      Don’t really expect that from an Arsenal side, and although they’ve ‘strengthened’ for this season, tactically they’ve gone backwards.
      Certainly wouldn’t be happy to see the reds set up like that. And glad to say I’ve not witnessed it in 64 years.
      What is clear is, we need an alternative tactic/method to break these defensive tactics down. Is Alcantara the answer? Not sure, and nobody can be until he’s tried and tested. Worth a punt I think, because we deffo need something different.
      Had we scored first, it may have been a different game, with them having to look for a goal, and us countering.
      I’m convinced we are clearly the better side, and even the would be upper echelons of the prem are sh*t scared of what we might do if they try and take us on in the real sense of the word.
      Arse may have the shield, but I’m sure I know who’s fans are the happier.
      I wouldn’t cross the road to witness that sh*te that they dished up.
      RC9
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #307: Aug 30, 2020 08:59:04 am
      Not to do the classic ''every time we lose a game you plug in the latest transfer target and say we could've used him'' thing but just out of curiosity I have a question:

      How many people in here think we could've used a little bit more creativity in midfield today and how many people think player like Thiago could've been the answer to the visible game plan Arteta had (which was to let us have the ball on the wings and stack up the middle with a relatively low block assuming that we would not be able to capitalize on the crosses)?

      I am honestly asking the question and not insinuating he would've made the difference. Just a question out of curiosity, especially for those who consider they've watched him enough to say they have a good idea of what he can bring.




      We had everything we needed for the full 90 sitting on the bench unfortunately. Naby has been in good form of late and when he came on our game in midfield changed.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #308: Aug 30, 2020 09:00:34 am
      My take on yesterday's game.

      Credit to Arsenal - It's easy to call them bus parkers and say they were negaitive. Yes there were long spells in the game where they played very deep and surrendered possession but hti sis a side that has had a soft underbelly for 10 years or so. Arteta has come in and got them very organised in a short space of time, i can't imagine players like Holding and Luiz will be in the side long-term but he has got them playing like a defensive unit. REminds me a little bit of the progress Houllier made early on at LFC. For all our possession, I don't think we really troubled them until the middle part of the 2nd half. There were also spells in the game where they got forward, played high and pressed our back four into long balls and giving up possession. Fairplay to them, they've beaten us twice, City, Chelsea and united since lockdown was lifted i believe.

      As for our performance. I didn't like the team, no Trent is a huge loss, as many have said Milly needs to start at RB when Trent isn't available. Neco looks a million miles off it, particular when he's got Salah in front of him. With Trent missing we really should play either of Keita or Jones in the middle of the park. They played a back five and kinda strangled our effectiveness in wide areas. Others are beginning to cotton on to this so we need to be able to play through teams as well. We had some spells where we looked good, suffocated them and wouldn't them out, that's when we are at our best but clearly we miss Trent and we miss Hendo.

      Positives were Robbo who had a good game, he wasn't great after we secured the title but looks best to his best now, fit, sharp, quick and competitive. Minamino has been getting brighter (not that that was hard!) steadily for a while now, again he was a livewire yesterday and you could see the relief when he scored, the goal will do him the world of good. I thought Milner had a decent game just a shame he couldn't put that header away. Apart from that the only thing we can really point to are the minutes in the legs, will benefit the lads ahead of the season. I think most of us wouldn't swap a chazza shield win for 3 points vs Leeds so lets hope we get them.

      Negatives. Aside from Neco's performance i was disappointed in Klopp bringing Brewster in for the pens, nothing to gain and everything to lose for the lad in this situation. At least give him 7-8 minutes to run around first, it just wasn't the best of moves for such a young player imho. Our front players need to get themselves going, Mane did ok but some heavy touches, Firmino (bar that one run and shot) was largely invisible and Mo looked a shadow of himself yesterday, was a bit brighter when Klopp moved him inside. Last year we lost this on pens but i actually thought we played really well, yesterday it wasn't a great perforamace. I'm not massively concerned but Klopp has a bit of work to do.
      David Wright
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #309: Aug 30, 2020 10:16:05 am
      I am afraid I was unable to see the game yesterday, so cannot really comment. Look forward to the first game of the premier league season in a couple of weeks time.
      hoganov
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #310: Aug 30, 2020 11:16:56 am
      The same Robertson who didn't complete a single cross or pass and fluffed the header at the end?

      TameImpala
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #311: Aug 30, 2020 03:10:17 pm
      RE Brewster - Always find it weird when managers bring players on for penalties. Doesn't seem to work as often as you'd expect. Vividly remember Mourinho bringing on Geremi to take a penalty in the CL semj against us in 2007 and him missing too.

      I think players who have already been on the pitch and gotten a "feel" for the ball are better choices. Was a superbly hit penalty by Brewster, I just think he may have misjudged the weight of it a little bit due to coming on & not having a kick himself. Hope it doesn't effect his confidence. Shouldn't do like, it's only the Charity Shield after all
      Kopite78
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      Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool - FA Community Shield - Saturday Aug. 29 - 1630 GMT
      Reply #312: Aug 30, 2020 04:28:20 pm
      Biggest errors were from Klopp today. Milner should have started at RB in place of Williams, Keita should have been in the midfield from the start and Brewster shouldn’t have had his first touch of the game as a penalty after coming on 30 seconds before the end.



      I'm not sure really, easy to say with hindsight

      How do we know that Aubameyang wouldnt have murdered Milner for pace? Maybe Milner would have had more game smarts than young Neco and stopped him cutting in on his strong foot but again its conjecture

      If he trusts these young players then he has to play them when the games and opportunities are there when the first choices arent available

      As for Brewster, it was a gut feel I think, he was going to bring him on just before we scored and changed his mind once we did, but he said himself he has never seen him miss on so still wanted to get him on. It's a gut call. I remember Holland bringing on Krul just to face penalties in the world cup, that's maybe more of a risk than bringing on a young confident kid who obviously wanted to take one

      Again a gut call which had ot been 2 inches lower then people say it's a great call

      Klopp is paid to make decisions and most he makes are correct, he will always maybe get one or two that with hindsite we can say are wrong but it doesnt mean they are
      JD
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #313: Aug 30, 2020 04:45:06 pm
      Liverpool are fair game to be criticised when they don't perform.

      They took their foot off the gas in February and that isn't being critical. Understandable maybe. How long will it take though for them to get back to it?

      Deleted some of the less savoury personal posts in this thread. If you want to live in fairyland where Liverpool can do no wrong and are always without fault then maybe discussion forums aren't your thing.

      Back onto football discussion, ta.
      srslfc
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #314: Aug 30, 2020 05:02:01 pm
      Only just got round to watching the highlights on MOTD.

      Hard to tell from that to be honest but I'm not going to lose my sh*t over a draw in a pre season game.

      We'll be there or thereabouts this season and once proper games kick off I expect us to win the vast majority just as we have done over the last couple of seasons.

      Minamino scoring is encouraging and I like the way he plays and could be a different option to break teams down either off the bench or from the start.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #315: Aug 30, 2020 05:35:10 pm
      I'm not sure really, easy to say with hindsight

      How do we know that Aubameyang wouldnt have murdered Milner for pace? Maybe Milner would have had more game smarts than young Neco and stopped him cutting in on his strong foot but again its conjecture

      Don’t think it is hindsight to be honest, before the game I said Milly at RB because of how bad Williams was against Salzburg.

      Keita was arguably one of our best players after the restart, looked good in the mini pre- season and seemed nailed on to start but once again he was on the bench with his quality again being obvious when he was on the pitch. Whilst it was another lacklustre and nothing performance from Gini.

      When the lineup was announced I instantly felt as though we had made a mistake and essentially handed an advantage to Arsenal. Having a midfield of Fab, Gini and Milly isn’t going to break down a team that is set up to defend for 90 minutes so we instantly made it easier for them. Starting Keita or even Jones would have given them something else to think about because when they get the ball, they look to break forward with it. Or there was even the option of a 4-2-3-1 with Minamino starting.

      Williams on the back of a difficult game against Salzburg should never have started this game when he was always going to be up against Aubamayang, we needed Milner or at a push Gomez there with Fab slotting into the back 4, which was the case later in the game.

      The players didn’t cover themselves in glory but the team selection and set up was wrong from the very start.
      FL Red
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #316: Aug 30, 2020 07:07:25 pm
      Don’t think it is hindsight to be honest, before the game I said Milly at RB because of how bad Williams was against Salzburg.

      Keita was arguably one of our best players after the restart, looked good in the mini pre- season and seemed nailed on to start but once again he was on the bench with his quality again being obvious when he was on the pitch. Whilst it was another lacklustre and nothing performance from Gini.

      When the lineup was announced I instantly felt as though we had made a mistake and essentially handed an advantage to Arsenal. Having a midfield of Fab, Gini and Milly isn’t going to break down a team that is set up to defend for 90 minutes so we instantly made it easier for them. Starting Keita or even Jones would have given them something else to think about because when they get the ball, they look to break forward with it. Or there was even the option of a 4-2-3-1 with Minamino starting.

      Williams on the back of a difficult game against Salzburg should never have started this game when he was always going to be up against Aubamayang, we needed Milner or at a push Gomez there with Fab slotting into the back 4, which was the case later in the game.

      The players didn’t cover themselves in glory but the team selection and set up was wrong from the very start.

      Klopp seems to be really throwing Neco to the wolves, possibility that he’s trying to determine whether to keep him as a viable backup foe this season or send him on loan somewhere that he can be a starter game in and out?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #317: Aug 30, 2020 07:57:39 pm
      Don’t think it is hindsight to be honest, before the game I said Milly at RB because of how bad Williams was against Salzburg.

      Keita was arguably one of our best players after the restart, looked good in the mini pre- season and seemed nailed on to start but once again he was on the bench with his quality again being obvious when he was on the pitch. Whilst it was another lacklustre and nothing performance from Gini.

      When the lineup was announced I instantly felt as though we had made a mistake and essentially handed an advantage to Arsenal. Having a midfield of Fab, Gini and Milly isn’t going to break down a team that is set up to defend for 90 minutes so we instantly made it easier for them. Starting Keita or even Jones would have given them something else to think about because when they get the ball, they look to break forward with it. Or there was even the option of a 4-2-3-1 with Minamino starting.

      Williams on the back of a difficult game against Salzburg should never have started this game when he was always going to be up against Aubamayang, we needed Milner or at a push Gomez there with Fab slotting into the back 4, which was the case later in the game.

      The players didn’t cover themselves in glory but the team selection and set up was wrong from the very start.

      One thing about all of this, I know Fabinho is available as emergency cover at center back, but I really would prefer that only be an emergency option, because when he is not available for the midfield three, I think it hurts us.  I guess that means another center back is needed, especially with Matip being fragile. Maybe we'll be seeing Koumetio used there, but of course he's even younger than Neco - so I don't know.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #318: Aug 30, 2020 08:28:49 pm
      when he is not available for the midfield three, I think it hurts us.

      Doesn’t hurt us as much if Hendo is playing because Hendo proved last season that he can play Fabs role just as effectively.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #319: Aug 30, 2020 09:08:36 pm
      Doesn’t hurt us as much if Hendo is playing because Hendo proved last season that he can play Fabs role just as effectively.

      Both players bring something good.
      adammac
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #320: Aug 31, 2020 01:32:17 am
      Klopp seems to be really throwing Neco to the wolves, possibility that he’s trying to determine whether to keep him as a viable backup foe this season or send him on loan somewhere that he can be a starter game in and out?

      I believe this is what Klopp is doing, having somewhat "meaningless" games after the restart and this community sheild was good opportunity to see if he is ready and based in what I saw he isn't. Whether it is another season of PL2 and Cup games or out on loan I think we are better off with Milner at RB or maybe Klopp would try Tsimikas odd game at RB.

      As for the game one thing notice we are too slow moving the ball in transition, this allowed time for the Arsenal set their wall of defenders.

      brezipool
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #321: Aug 31, 2020 09:42:05 am
      So long as we start the league campaign with a win v leeds thats all that matters.

      heimdall
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #322: Aug 31, 2020 11:38:57 am
      So long as we start the league campaign with a win v leeds thats all that matters.



      Thanks Captain Obvious
      brezipool
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #323: Aug 31, 2020 12:17:42 pm

      welcome. :-)
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool (5-4 on pens): In game and Post Match
      Reply #324: Aug 31, 2020 01:44:30 pm
      Good workout, we looked a lot better as a team in the second half. Neco can learn from his mistakes. Gini looked a lot more arsed once Naby came on.

      Says a lot about where we are watching Arsenal defend for their lives then celebrate like winning the Champions League!

      Just hope everyone stays fit through international break and we can get off to a good start v the sheepshaggers leeds.

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