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      The 30 year wait

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      LFC PAUL
      • Forum David Johnson
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      The 30 year wait
      Aug 30, 2020 07:48:45 pm
      On the box tonight at 9pm, BBC 2
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #1: Aug 30, 2020 11:49:12 pm
      On the box tonight at 9pm, BBC 2

      Interesting watch that.
      GERNS
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #2: Aug 31, 2020 12:01:35 am
      Well worth watching. Thoroughly enjoyed that.
      JD
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #3: Aug 31, 2020 12:01:40 pm
      Here's the iPlayer link.   Really enjoyed that programme - good to have so many of the managers down the years getting interviewed as well.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000m7l8/liverpool-fc-the-30year-wait
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #4: Aug 31, 2020 12:23:36 pm
      Here's the iPlayer link.   Really enjoyed that programme - good to have so many of the managers down the years getting interviewed as well.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000m7l8/liverpool-fc-the-30year-wait

      Sad to see that there is still animosity between Roy and Gerard though, I found that interesting plus some of the insights around Hicks and Gillet and the rest of the club being so against them at the end.

      Was also really cool how they introduced Jürgen :-)
      JD
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #5: Aug 31, 2020 12:50:57 pm
      Sad to see that there is still animosity between Roy and Gerard though, I found that interesting

      Yes I was a bit surprised about that too. Think Evans was given plenty of time I don't think he can really hold grudges.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #6: Aug 31, 2020 12:58:44 pm
      Was nice to see Houllier included. That Roma game was a f**king great European night and doesn't get talked about as much as it should. Believe they were the reigning Italian champions at the time so it was some result turning them over 2-0

      Always shocks me when I see how frail & colourless he looks returning to the dugout though, no way he should have returned that early.

      The joint manager thing is always a laugh too. Has any club (similar to size in ours) ever tried anything like that since? Or had any club done it before? We're the only side I'm aware of that has ever done it
      TameImpala
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #7: Aug 31, 2020 01:01:57 pm
      Sad to see that there is still animosity between Roy and Gerard though

      I liked the bit where Houllier was talking about going into the dressing room after Istanbul and Benitez was brilliant with him.

      I've heard the story a few times before but always presumed Rafa didn't want him there or there was a bit of awkwardness between the two
      « Last Edit: Aug 31, 2020 02:46:33 pm by TameImpala »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #8: Aug 31, 2020 01:38:49 pm
      Missed half, completely forgot about it, will have to give it a rewatch through BBC i-player.
      racerx34
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #9: Aug 31, 2020 02:33:12 pm
      Missed half, completely forgot about it, will have to give it a rewatch through BBC i-player.

      Roy still being bitter at Gerard gave me a needed chuckle.
      2001 though, what a season that was.

      The Klopp stuff was nicely done.
      Lucky time to be an LFC fan.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #10: Aug 31, 2020 03:46:07 pm
      Do they put these programmes on DVD, or BlueRay or SpaceJam or floppy disk or whatever it is called now?  ;D

      How about Beta? I think I can run Beta on my VCR.

      Or an 8-track tape player?

      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #11: Aug 31, 2020 03:56:27 pm
      Sad to see that there is still animosity between Roy and Gerard

      It’s more from Evans’ side. But Co-managers should never have happened in the first place, terrible decision for a club to make.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #12: Aug 31, 2020 03:59:35 pm
      It’s more from Evans’ side. But Co-managers should never have happened in the first place, terrible decision for a club to make.

      Have to blame David Moores really, same with sounds,, personal relationships meant he found it difficult to sack people 
      David Wright
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #13: Aug 31, 2020 05:22:07 pm
      Really enjoyed the programme, thought Gerard Houllier was a really likeable person, perhaps a bit too nice at times ! Always liked Rafa who at least guided the club to winning the champions league, in what was a very memorable occasion, a bit sad to see him depart in one sense. Kenny came back after the Roy Hodgson era, he was never cut out to be a Liverpool manager.

        Brendan tried his best, but perhaps did not have the experience, unlike present manager Jürgen Klopp, who was the perfect fit for the club, as his record shows, finally guiding us to the premiership title after such a long wait. These are my views only I except I am not as knowledgeable as many Liverpool fans out there.
      macbk
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #14: Aug 31, 2020 07:00:08 pm
      As an American, how can I watch?
      Red8
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #15: Aug 31, 2020 07:23:18 pm
      macbk
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      GERNS
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #17: Aug 31, 2020 07:46:14 pm
      Was nice to see Houllier included. That Roma game was a f**king great European night and doesn't get talked about as much as it should. Believe they were the reigning Italian champions at the time so it was some result turning them over 2-0

      Always shocks me when I see how frail & colourless he looks returning to the dugout though, no way he should have returned that early.

      The joint manager thing is always a laugh too. Has any club (similar to size in ours) ever tried anything like that since? Or had any club done it before? We're the only side I'm aware of that has ever done it

      Brian Clough and Peter Taylor 😬
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #18: Aug 31, 2020 07:53:40 pm
      Really enjoyed the programme, thought Gerard Houllier was a really likeable person, perhaps a bit too nice at times !

      Not a chance Houllier could be described as a bit too nice, bringing in a loan player to spy on the squad when he first got full control to weed out a player (Paul Ince) who was running to the press with all kinds of stories, the way he got shut of players including anyone who argued with him, his belief he was fine after the heart problems and cracked on with 2002/2003 season even though everyone and his dog could tell he was still ill.

      You could call it stereotypically French arrogance. But when he first got full control that was need to build a platform for going into the 21st century and getting rid of the deadwood of the time.
      LFC PAUL
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #19: Aug 31, 2020 08:11:17 pm
      Do they put these programmes on DVD, or BlueRay or SpaceJam or floppy disk or whatever it is called now?  ;D

      How about Beta? I think I can run Beta on my VCR.

      Or an 8-track tape player?

      Probably not, mostly because of copyright issues usually 
      bmck
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #20: Aug 31, 2020 08:19:33 pm
      Good programme, tried to fit a lot into the time available.
      Bit that stuck out for me too was the Houllier/Evans relationship, or lack of one as it stands now. Roy really looked hurt by it, though agree that joint manager thing was never going to work.
      I've generally liked Gerard, but when he talked about when Rafa won the CL in 2005, it was basically with HIS players. OK Gerard, but do you think YOU could have won it with those players - I really don't think so. And Rafa went on to build a much stronger team than Houllier.
      And Hick's quote, saying buying LFC was like buying Kleenex or something, some tw*t that lad.
      Stevie G and KK mentioned thoughout, SGs slip got another outing, never easy to watch. And the Karius howlers in the CL final :(
      But seeing the managers come and go, it only highlighted the unbelievable job Jürgen has done since he was come in. Absolutely incredible.
      Kopite78
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #21: Aug 31, 2020 08:38:38 pm
      Brian Clough and Peter Taylor 😬

      They were a distinct manager and assistant though those two
      lfc across the water
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #22: Aug 31, 2020 08:39:17 pm
      I missed the start, which was just as well considering the first 10-15 minutes was about the 80's, and the first 5 minutes focused on some irrelevant incident in Belgium. I'm sure most of us would rather not be reminded about it, in a Liverpool documentary. We are it's target audience after all. Especially a show that's supposed to start in the year 1990.

      The rest of it could have focused on the team's results during the leaner years, not merely gloss over them. So they could have talked about the team drawing at home to Swindon, or losing at home to Barnsley, or going out of the cup at home to Grimsby/Northampton, or finishing 8th in the table several years, to mention a few. It would have been far more informative to our newer generation of fans. I know time is short but to better appreciate what we have, it helps to understand how far we've actually come. Then they can fully appreciate what it feels like to finally finish 1st.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #23: Aug 31, 2020 09:17:19 pm
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #24: Aug 31, 2020 09:39:57 pm
      I missed the start, which was just as well considering the first 10-15 minutes was about the 80's, and the first 5 minutes focused on some irrelevant incident in Belgium. I'm sure most of us would rather not be reminded about it, in a Liverpool documentary. We are it's target audience after all. Especially a show that's supposed to start in the year 1990.

      The rest of it could have focused on the team's results during the leaner years, not merely gloss over them. So they could have talked about the team drawing at home to Swindon, or losing at home to Barnsley, or going out of the cup at home to Grimsby/Northampton, or finishing 8th in the table several years, to mention a few. It would have been far more informative to our newer generation of fans. I know time is short but to better appreciate what we have, it helps to understand how far we've actually come. Then they can fully appreciate what it feels like to finally finish 1st.

      Irrelevant incident?
      GERNS
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #25: Sep 01, 2020 12:51:31 am
      They were a distinct manager and assistant though those two

      Know what you mean Kopite, but wherever you have two ‘managers’ working together, there’s always a dominant partner, and the other is looked on as the assistant.
      I think Roy became the assistant.
      Kopite78
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #26: Sep 01, 2020 07:31:34 am
      Know what you mean Kopite, but wherever you have two ‘managers’ working together, there’s always a dominant partner, and the other is looked on as the assistant.
      I think Roy became the assistant.

      I'm not sure Roy became the "assistant " in the clubs thinking
      But I think Gerard definitely saw him as more of an inconvenience and didn't really treat him as an equal which is where the animosity comes from on Roy's side.
      I mean it was never going to work, all it did was confuse players and cause a rift at the top

      But I think Roy doesn't think that Gerard ever tried to make it work and was trying to push him out from minute 1


      Clough and Taylor werent joint managers though at all, Clough was number 1, Taylor 2
      They eventually fell out because of Cloughs  attitude, drinking and arrogance and Taylor then tried to make it as a number 1 on his own right at Brighton but that didnt really work out
      « Last Edit: Sep 01, 2020 07:36:52 am by Kopite78 »
      LFCexiled
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #27: Sep 01, 2020 01:20:28 pm
      Just managed to watch it, really well made and got me a bit emotional at times.

      Well done the BBC.
      srslfc
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #28: Sep 01, 2020 02:02:54 pm
      Enjoyed that and got to see it last night.

      Big mistake to appoint joint managers at that time and sad to see Roy still seems to hold a grudge against Ged. I don't see how that could have ended any differently and both me shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place and was always only going to be one outcome.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #29: Sep 01, 2020 06:00:21 pm
      Just managed to watch it, really well made and got me a bit emotional at times.

      Well done the BBC.

      Big f**king grins when Klopp turns up!!

      "Hello" :laugh:
      Swab
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #30: Sep 01, 2020 06:08:47 pm
      Out of all the managers, it seemed that BR was the only one to try and make it about himself.

      He stopped short of claiming credit for the title, but only just.

      Still a great watch though.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #31: Sep 01, 2020 06:11:19 pm
      Big f**king grins when Klopp turns up!!

      "Hello" :laugh:

      😁

      His BOOM! as well. Gets me every time.
      Klopps Snood
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #32: Sep 01, 2020 08:28:12 pm
      Really enjoyable hour and a half and quite difficult to fit our 'history' in such a short space of time so I think the BBC did very well, looking back at the Souness days and the Hodgson days was painful as well as the hicks/gillette period. makes you realise how good everything is at the moment with FSG and Jürgen at the helm, like Racer said, it's a great time to be a Liverpool fan, we should all count our blessings, Shanks and Bob would be happy to see that we're in great hands at this moment.

      Long may it continue.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #33: Sep 01, 2020 08:41:23 pm
      Out of all the managers, it seemed that BR was the only one to try and make it about himself.

      He stopped short of claiming credit for the title, but only just.

      Still a great watch though.

      Oh I'm not sure, Houllier had a good go.
      Swab
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #34: Sep 01, 2020 10:45:12 pm
      Oh I'm not sure, Houllier had a good go.

      Yeah, with the CL  :laugh:

      Thing is, we've heard from a lot of players etc since then about how it was "his squad", so I think it was probably fair enough for him to jump on board with that.

      He looked proper fu**ed though in the program and in the old clips when he came out of hospital, so I find it hard to be too harsh on him, even if what Evans said was true. The bit about some people being better at "looking after themselves" suggests he thinks Houllier stuck the knife in behind his back.

      A pity some of the old wounds got re-opened a bit, but all part of the 30 years I suppose.
      chats
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #35: Sep 01, 2020 10:48:37 pm
      Very well made documentary, loved the bits about Barnes, emotional about the Hillsborough part and a great ending.

      The Brendan stuff was the only sour part. Made a point of blaming everyone bar himself - 'the slip was the real crucial moment'/'I told the players we were taking too many risk v Palace'/'I only needed Van Dijk'. Nah, not having that. Was a massive difference between that and the way Houllier and Rafa spoke.

      Big f**king grins when Klopp turns up!!

      "Hello" :laugh:

      Best bit by a mile this!
      TameImpala
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #36: Sep 02, 2020 10:12:39 am
      'I told the players we were taking too many risk v Palace

      Was thinking the same myself - did he sh*te tell the players that. Pretty sure he'd have wanted them to hunt the goal difference down same as everybody else. If I remember correctly City only had one game left and that was at home to West Ham, so clawing back the goal difference was the only realistic way we were winning the title by that point.

      Would have had a lot more respect for him if he'd have just come out and said something along the lines of "We went for the spectacular and it backfired, we had no other choice".

      If we'd have won that game 7-0 and went on to win the title on goal difference I'm sure he would came out with some guff about how his decision to deploy Joe Allen as a "high pressing trequartista" was a masterstroke
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #37: Sep 02, 2020 10:19:47 am
      Yeah, with the CL  :laugh:

      Thing is, we've heard from a lot of players etc since then about how it was "his squad", so I think it was probably fair enough for him to jump on board with that.

      He looked proper fu**ed though in the program and in the old clips when he came out of hospital, so I find it hard to be too harsh on him, even if what Evans said was true. The bit about some people being better at "looking after themselves" suggests he thinks Houllier stuck the knife in behind his back.

      A pity some of the old wounds got re-opened a bit, but all part of the 30 years I suppose.


      I can remember being very happy when Houllier came in, I can't quite recall if that was as joint manager or sole manager, but Evans had his chance and largely dissapointed. With that crop of young players, Mcmannaman, Fowler, Redknapp etc he really should have been able to mount more of a challenge than he did but he was unable to control the spiceboys thing.  Houllier was a big improvement, then Rafa even more, then the manager who shall not be mentioned, then nice nostalgia with King Kenny, the Irishman who went so so close and then of course the Meister, Jürgen!
      JD
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #38: Sep 02, 2020 10:29:16 am
      The rest of it could have focused on the team's results during the leaner years, not merely gloss over them.

      Always fascinated by this 'leaner years' business.  For the overwhelming majority of football clubs, Liverpool's last 30 years would have been their golden period.

      It's all relative - showing us winning the treble and a couple of European Cups and FA and League Cups and then banging on about them being terrible times just wouldn't register with non-Liverpool fans watching.  Our lowest league position has been 8th which we've finished in just 3 times in almost 60 years,  I'm not sure how much emotional connection you can buy when that was the depth of our performances.  Try selling that as heartbreak to Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and Villa fans!

      The programme was all about close shaves, failure and constant reinvention in the main trophy we all wanted.  Think it did a good job.
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #39: Sep 02, 2020 10:45:34 am
      Was thinking the same myself - did he sh*te tell the players that. Pretty sure he'd have wanted them to hunt the goal difference down same as everybody else. If I remember correctly City only had one game left and that was at home to West Ham, so clawing back the goal difference was the only realistic way we were winning the title by that point.

      Would have had a lot more respect for him if he'd have just come out and said something along the lines of "We went for the spectacular and it backfired, we had no other choice".

      If we'd have won that game 7-0 and went on to win the title on goal difference I'm sure he would came out with some guff about how his decision to deploy Joe Allen as a "high pressing trequartista" was a masterstroke

      That game still haunts me, but its not where we lost the title, or Chelsea. We lost the title because Brendan was and still is a fuckwit as regards defending, we scored a hell of a lot of goals in that campaign but we also conceded a hell of a lot, with a bit more smarts and a better balance to the team we would have beaten City that year.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #40: Sep 02, 2020 12:02:42 pm
      That game still haunts me, but its not where we lost the title, or Chelsea. We lost the title because Brendan was and still is a fuckwit as regards defending, we scored a hell of a lot of goals in that campaign but we also conceded a hell of a lot, with a bit more smarts and a better balance to the team we would have beaten City that year.

      Feels as though there were so many bizarre moments that season where for years we looked back on and thought "what if". Obviously Gerrard's slip tops them all but there was also Kolo Toure's absolute brain-fart of a pass to Anichebe against West Brom which led to them snatching an equalizer & Joe Allen's open goal miss in the 3-3 derby

      The one which riled me up the most though would be Sterling's disallowed goal in the 1-2 away defeat to Man City (photo attached to jog your memory). Absolute disgrace how that was flagged for offside - and the same cu*ts have got a cheek to bang on about bias & VAR!

      Was a terrific season though looking back, for excitement you couldn't fault it
      lfc across the water
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #41: Sep 04, 2020 08:39:59 am
      Quote from JD
      Always fascinated by this 'leaner years' business.  For the overwhelming majority of football clubs, Liverpool's last 30 years would have been their golden period.

      It's all relative - showing us winning the treble and a couple of European Cups and FA and League Cups and then banging on about them being terrible times just wouldn't register with non-Liverpool fans watching.  Our lowest league position has been 8th which we've finished in just 3 times in almost 60 years,  I'm not sure how much emotional connection you can buy when that was the depth of our performances.  Try selling that as heartbreak to Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and Villa fans!

      The programme was all about close shaves, failure and constant reinvention in the main trophy we all wanted.  Think it did a good job.

      Entire seasons were glossed over/ignored. Yes they showed the main moments during the time, but we know everything about them. There is nothing more to show about Istanbul that hasn't already been covered many times before. Same with the slip. We know that Kenny resigned, we know why he resigned, this is stuff we Liverpool fans are all aware of. Was there anything groundbreaking? Maybe if it started in 1990, rather than 1985, we might find out something new. It was a 30 year wait, not a 35 year wait.

      As regards Leeds and Villa fans etc, I assume very few were watching, and if they were, what was shown wouldn't interest them. Success for them is staying in the league, not winning the league as is the case here.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #42: Sep 04, 2020 09:16:28 am
      Entire seasons were glossed over/ignored. Yes they showed the main moments during the time, but we know everything about them. There is nothing more to show about Istanbul that hasn't already been covered many times before. Same with the slip. We know that Kenny resigned, we know why he resigned, this is stuff we Liverpool fans are all aware of. Was there anything groundbreaking? Maybe if it started in 1990, rather than 1985, we might find out something new. It was a 30 year wait, not a 35 year wait.

      As regards Leeds and Villa fans etc, I assume very few were watching, and if they were, what was shown wouldn't interest them. Success for them is staying in the league, not winning the league as is the case here.

      The thing is that it wasn't made just for Liverpool supporters. It was shown at primetime on a bank holiday weekend & was obviously made with a wider target audience in mind. Was nothing new for us but it would have been informative the rest of the country. I'm sure a lot of the Chicago Bulls fans who watched 'The Last Dance' on Netflix didn't learn much, but those who weren't clued up on the story like myself found it captivating
      heimdall
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      Re: The 30 year wait
      Reply #43: Sep 04, 2020 11:49:49 am
      Entire seasons were glossed over/ignored. Yes they showed the main moments during the time, but we know everything about them. There is nothing more to show about Istanbul that hasn't already been covered many times before. Same with the slip. We know that Kenny resigned, we know why he resigned, this is stuff we Liverpool fans are all aware of. Was there anything groundbreaking? Maybe if it started in 1990, rather than 1985, we might find out something new. It was a 30 year wait, not a 35 year wait.

      As regards Leeds and Villa fans etc, I assume very few were watching, and if they were, what was shown wouldn't interest them. Success for them is staying in the league, not winning the league as is the case here.

      and people call me miserable and negative!!!

      I wasn't aware of the ongoing animosity between Evans and Houllier, I also didn't know that Hicks was the bigger pr**k than Gillett.

      But even if there weren't any big revelations it was a well made and interesting stroll down memory lane with a very happy ending.

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