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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)

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      smurftheburn
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Sep 06, 2020 10:16:07 am
      We all knew it was coming, but outlets are saying £15 million. Is there a reason we are willing to take a £10m loss on a player who now has extra career achievements including CL, PL, SC, WCC and multiple game-changing goals in CL?

      https://liverpooloffside.sbnation.com/liverpool-fc-news-coverage/2020/9/6/21424748/liverpool-transfer-newsgini-wijnaldum-looks-increasingly-likely-to-join-barcelona-premier-league-epl
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #1: Sep 06, 2020 10:30:38 am
      Simon Mullock and Kevin Palmer

      🤷‍♂️

      I wont hold my breath that they have an in at the club
      smurftheburn
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #2: Sep 06, 2020 10:44:41 am
      I picked the first non-d*gshit article on Google. Widely reported.
      FL Red
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #3: Sep 06, 2020 01:36:54 pm
      Pearce says we won’t take 15m. Too low. So there’s that.
      bmck
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #4: Sep 06, 2020 03:04:13 pm
      Teams making offers know if we hold onto him, he can go for free next year.
      Whether we stand firm on a price depends too on how bad they want him.
      Would miss Gini if he goes, solid pro, and maybe deserves a bit more credit for the role he has played for us.
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #5: Sep 06, 2020 03:20:44 pm
      Pearce says we won’t take 15m. Too low. So there’s that.

      I think that is too low.  Rather keep him and let them deal with agents.   Apparently that sort of figure is needed to get suarez out of the club.  It's funny that rumours have accelerated since Messi has advised to back the manager.  They are in a right mess. 
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #6: Sep 06, 2020 03:37:51 pm
      Anything between 15 and 25M in this market and I'll be happy. As much as I love Gini I don't want us to lose him for nothing. Other than him being on the last year of his contract I can see two other factors driving the down the price even more.

      First, it's Barcelona. They are in a complete mess and apparently have financial problems which means they will lowball and not overpay like they used to in the past few years. Some might say its not our problem but it is because that's the club Gini wants to go to so you either negotiate with them or you keep him. Sure you could play the ''you need him'' card but that is dependent on how much they care about signing him this summer.

      Second, the obvious one, pandemic time. Some clubs don't give a sh*t about it (your oil boys) but most clubs do and will try to bring the price down as much as possible during this uncertain time.

      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #7: Sep 06, 2020 04:04:17 pm
      Anything between 15 and 25M in this market and I'll be happy. As much as I love Gini I don't want us to lose him for nothing. Other than him being on the last year of his contract I can see two other factors driving the down the price even more.

      First, it's Barcelona. They are in a complete mess and apparently have financial problems which means they will lowball and not overpay like they used to in the past few years. Some might say its not our problem but it is because that's the club Gini wants to go to so you either negotiate with them or you keep him. Sure you could play the ''you need him'' card but that is dependent on how much they care about signing him this summer.

      Second, the obvious one, pandemic time. Some clubs don't give a sh*t about it (your oil boys) but most clubs do and will try to bring the price down as much as possible during this uncertain time.

      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #8: Sep 06, 2020 04:08:29 pm
      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands

      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #9: Sep 06, 2020 04:16:52 pm
      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.

      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #10: Sep 06, 2020 05:21:19 pm
      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.

      I imagine we'll already have been told the valuation of Thiago, so whatever we're asking for Gini will cover the incoming of Thiago.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #11: Sep 06, 2020 05:36:48 pm
      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands
      Barcelona don't need immediate wins. Most of the people supporting that club have already accepted that they have started a reconstruction process that will take more than one transfer window. Nobody is expecting them to win the league or the CL next year. Messi have already said that he is leaving next summer and that he is only staying this year because he doesn't wanna take the club to court in order to get his move.

      All they need to do in this window and probably the next two is to slowly reconstruct their team in a smart way without splashing tons of cash at players they are going to play out of position and crap like that.

      They are in a good negotiating position. The only thing playing against them is the known fact that Koeman wants him which is not a factor set in stone. He could turn around and say I don't need him to the point where we pay the price they ask if its not one we want to pay. They are not in dire need for Gini. Its a sh*t show with or without him in the team. I don't see what are the strings we could pull on, to play hardball here. Unless we are applying a ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy then I think they have the upper hand on this one.

      Caveat: Michael Edwards is very good at his job so who knows. We might end up selling for a price that surprises us all.

      Edit: When I say ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy I basically mean us not being bothered losing him on a free. If that's the case then sure we have the upper hand but I do wonder if that is indeed the case.

      srslfc
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #12: Sep 06, 2020 05:37:26 pm
      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well

      Exactly.

      They want him, they pay what we want or he goes nowhere.

      We will only sell if his valuation is met and I don't think we would be bothered about losing him on a free.
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #13: Sep 06, 2020 05:50:23 pm
      Exactly.

      They want him, they pay what we want or he goes nowhere.

      We will only sell if his valuation is met and I don't think we would be bothered about losing him on a free.

      20M if we are lucky
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #14: Sep 06, 2020 05:52:14 pm
      Barcelona don't need immediate wins. Most of the people supporting that club have already accepted that they have started a reconstruction process that will take more than one transfer window. Nobody is expecting them to win the league or the CL next year. Messi have already said that he is leaving next summer and that he is only staying this year because he doesn't wanna take the club to court in order to get his move.

      All they need to do in this window and probably the next two is to slowly reconstruct their team in a smart way without splashing tons of cash at players they are going to play out of position and crap like that.

      They are in a good negotiating position. The only thing playing against them is the known fact that Koeman wants him which is not a factor set in stone. He could turn around and say I don't need him to the point where we pay the price they ask if its not one we want to pay. They are not in dire need for Gini. Its a sh*t show with or without him in the team. I don't see what are the strings we could pull on, to play hardball here. Unless we are applying a ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy then I think they have the upper hand on this one.

      Caveat: Michael Edwards is very good at his job so who knows. We might end up selling for a price that surprises us all.

      Edit: When I say ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy I basically mean us not being bothered losing him on a free. If that's the case then sure we have the upper hand but I do wonder if that is indeed the case.

      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #15: Sep 06, 2020 05:56:35 pm

      It depends what you class as lucky

      Who we are selling to

      Who we are selling

      Who we want to replace

      The figure to sell only really applies to who we replace hiem with or how we see the future

      There is literally no selling price here that's set.. to lose him for a low price as to nothing but get another year of him playing is easily written off
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #16: Sep 06, 2020 06:03:10 pm
      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins

      Exactly make this too easy for barca they coming for more.  We have a lot of very very very good players and they need top top players.  Nah he is available for a bargain if they want to ponce about let them deal with agents not us. 

      As long as only Barca is the option for Gini can still see him sign a contract however low the odds are stack against us. 
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #17: Sep 06, 2020 06:05:05 pm
      Exactly make this too easy for barca they coming for more.  We have a lot of very very very good players and they need top top players.  Nah he is available for a bargain if they want to ponce about let them deal with agents not us. 

      As long as only Barca is the option for Gini can still see him sign a contract however low the odds are stack against us.

      But the odds arent stacked against us

      I wish people would understand where  we are in the footballing world right now
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #18: Sep 06, 2020 06:06:59 pm
      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins
      There will always be fans who want immediate success but there's also a large chunk of people who understand what is going on at their club. Look at us, we want transfers after winning tittles but we understand the financial situation of the club. Even tho there is a large chunk of our fan base that want immediate transfers and are even going to the extent of saying ''FSG out'' that it means that FSG will go and spend big money.

      Like I said, we're not in the Barcelona offices but from outside the club it doesn't look like they are in a rush to buy players to win La Liga and the CL next year. They are cleaning house and anybody reasonable knows they are not serious contenders for trophies next season. Wanting a player and being ready to overpay for him are not two inseparable concepts especially when the player can be signed for free January.

      Edit: also this doesn't mean we're gonna let him go for a ridiculously low price. We will probably have a price we wont go under even if it means letting him move for free. All I am saying is that if our asking price is beyond Barca's valuation of the player then it would be deluded to think we are in driving seat of the negotiations.
      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2020 06:12:27 pm by PolarBearRed »
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #19: Sep 06, 2020 06:08:12 pm
      It depends what you class as lucky

      Who we are selling to

      Who we are selling

      Who we want to replace

      The figure to sell only really applies to who we replace hiem with or how we see the future

      There is literally no selling price here that's set.. to lose him for a low price as to nothing but get another year of him playing is easily written off

      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #20: Sep 06, 2020 06:11:11 pm
      But the odds arent stacked against us

      I wish people would understand where  we are in the footballing world right now

      I think the odds of him signing a contract this late is low. 

      I agree we are in a fantastic position and will keep our players.  But them lot are  dirty and try anything to turn heads.  I wouldn't put anything past them.   We should be firm if we are going to do a deal with them regards to gini.
      chats
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #21: Sep 06, 2020 06:14:24 pm
      If Bayern want 30m euros for Thiago I'd be wanting the same from Barca for Gini.

      I'd be gutted if he were to move on though, been a cracking player for us.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #22: Sep 06, 2020 06:25:37 pm
      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year

      I disagree we have no cards to play but I guess it depends with which confirmation bias you want to look at it

      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #23: Sep 06, 2020 07:06:08 pm
      I disagree we have no cards to play but I guess it depends with which confirmation bias you want to look at it
      I think you are mistaking two things here. You say we, as a club, are now in a spot that people do not understand. Let's do a little comparison to try and untangle what maybe we agree on without even understanding that we do agree on it.

      Bayern (for example) are, reportedly, in a similar situation than us with their midfielder Thiago. We could also say that historically, and this season, they too are in a great position in terms of being huge football club with much appeal and all that stuff.

      Bayern has set a price tag for Thiago. We can also guess that they have a number they are not willing to go under even at the cost of losing him for free. We can try and guess what that number is but it would be useless for the benefit of this exercice. What is important is that this number, in the context of what you are saying, serves as a tool to make sure that a message, which is ''we won't be lowballed or raided for our players'', is sent. It is, if you like, parameters that they have set for any eventual negotiations for Thiago.

      All of this is a position/stance that Bayern chooses to adopt because of where they are as football club (in a position where they can afford to not get pushed beyond a certain point even if it means losing a player on a free) and has nothing to do with factually being in a good or bad negotiating position to obtain the price they have set for Thiago. If Bayern will receive 30M from us for Thiago will depend on if we want to pay that money for Thiago, if we can pay that money, if there is other clubs Thiago would want to join that are willing to pay that money, etc. (all factors that Bayern has absolutely no control on)

      Same stuff applies to Wijnaldum, us and Barcelona. We can set parameters that we wont negotiate out of (a minimum price) but it doesn't mean that within those parameters we hold the cards to steer the price towards the number we set as our valuation of the player (maximum price if you wanna call it so). 

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #24: Sep 06, 2020 08:44:48 pm
      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well

      I'd rather get £15m now than £0 in a years time, so I'm unsure how we hold the cards here, please explain so I can learn from your vast knowledge of business.

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