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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)

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      smurftheburn
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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Sep 06, 2020 10:16:07 am
      We all knew it was coming, but outlets are saying £15 million. Is there a reason we are willing to take a £10m loss on a player who now has extra career achievements including CL, PL, SC, WCC and multiple game-changing goals in CL?

      https://liverpooloffside.sbnation.com/liverpool-fc-news-coverage/2020/9/6/21424748/liverpool-transfer-newsgini-wijnaldum-looks-increasingly-likely-to-join-barcelona-premier-league-epl
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #1: Sep 06, 2020 10:30:38 am
      Simon Mullock and Kevin Palmer

      🤷‍♂️

      I wont hold my breath that they have an in at the club
      smurftheburn
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #2: Sep 06, 2020 10:44:41 am
      I picked the first non-d*gshit article on Google. Widely reported.
      FL Red
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #3: Sep 06, 2020 01:36:54 pm
      Pearce says we won’t take 15m. Too low. So there’s that.
      bmck
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #4: Sep 06, 2020 03:04:13 pm
      Teams making offers know if we hold onto him, he can go for free next year.
      Whether we stand firm on a price depends too on how bad they want him.
      Would miss Gini if he goes, solid pro, and maybe deserves a bit more credit for the role he has played for us.
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #5: Sep 06, 2020 03:20:44 pm
      Pearce says we won’t take 15m. Too low. So there’s that.

      I think that is too low.  Rather keep him and let them deal with agents.   Apparently that sort of figure is needed to get suarez out of the club.  It's funny that rumours have accelerated since Messi has advised to back the manager.  They are in a right mess. 
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #6: Sep 06, 2020 03:37:51 pm
      Anything between 15 and 25M in this market and I'll be happy. As much as I love Gini I don't want us to lose him for nothing. Other than him being on the last year of his contract I can see two other factors driving the down the price even more.

      First, it's Barcelona. They are in a complete mess and apparently have financial problems which means they will lowball and not overpay like they used to in the past few years. Some might say its not our problem but it is because that's the club Gini wants to go to so you either negotiate with them or you keep him. Sure you could play the ''you need him'' card but that is dependent on how much they care about signing him this summer.

      Second, the obvious one, pandemic time. Some clubs don't give a sh*t about it (your oil boys) but most clubs do and will try to bring the price down as much as possible during this uncertain time.

      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #7: Sep 06, 2020 04:04:17 pm
      Anything between 15 and 25M in this market and I'll be happy. As much as I love Gini I don't want us to lose him for nothing. Other than him being on the last year of his contract I can see two other factors driving the down the price even more.

      First, it's Barcelona. They are in a complete mess and apparently have financial problems which means they will lowball and not overpay like they used to in the past few years. Some might say its not our problem but it is because that's the club Gini wants to go to so you either negotiate with them or you keep him. Sure you could play the ''you need him'' card but that is dependent on how much they care about signing him this summer.

      Second, the obvious one, pandemic time. Some clubs don't give a sh*t about it (your oil boys) but most clubs do and will try to bring the price down as much as possible during this uncertain time.

      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #8: Sep 06, 2020 04:08:29 pm
      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands

      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #9: Sep 06, 2020 04:16:52 pm
      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.

      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #10: Sep 06, 2020 05:21:19 pm
      play to much hardball and you lose him on a free next summer, which is £15m less than you get for selling him now, plus a disgruntled player in the team for a season which is never good.

      I imagine we'll already have been told the valuation of Thiago, so whatever we're asking for Gini will cover the incoming of Thiago.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #11: Sep 06, 2020 05:36:48 pm
      Couldnt disagree more

      The fact that Barca need quick wins and are a sh*t show currently plays into our hands

      You either pay what we want or you dont get the good publicity you need for your fans and indeed your best player

      No way they are in a good negotiation place as it stands
      Barcelona don't need immediate wins. Most of the people supporting that club have already accepted that they have started a reconstruction process that will take more than one transfer window. Nobody is expecting them to win the league or the CL next year. Messi have already said that he is leaving next summer and that he is only staying this year because he doesn't wanna take the club to court in order to get his move.

      All they need to do in this window and probably the next two is to slowly reconstruct their team in a smart way without splashing tons of cash at players they are going to play out of position and crap like that.

      They are in a good negotiating position. The only thing playing against them is the known fact that Koeman wants him which is not a factor set in stone. He could turn around and say I don't need him to the point where we pay the price they ask if its not one we want to pay. They are not in dire need for Gini. Its a sh*t show with or without him in the team. I don't see what are the strings we could pull on, to play hardball here. Unless we are applying a ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy then I think they have the upper hand on this one.

      Caveat: Michael Edwards is very good at his job so who knows. We might end up selling for a price that surprises us all.

      Edit: When I say ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy I basically mean us not being bothered losing him on a free. If that's the case then sure we have the upper hand but I do wonder if that is indeed the case.

      srslfc
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #12: Sep 06, 2020 05:37:26 pm
      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well

      Exactly.

      They want him, they pay what we want or he goes nowhere.

      We will only sell if his valuation is met and I don't think we would be bothered about losing him on a free.
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #13: Sep 06, 2020 05:50:23 pm
      Exactly.

      They want him, they pay what we want or he goes nowhere.

      We will only sell if his valuation is met and I don't think we would be bothered about losing him on a free.

      20M if we are lucky
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #14: Sep 06, 2020 05:52:14 pm
      Barcelona don't need immediate wins. Most of the people supporting that club have already accepted that they have started a reconstruction process that will take more than one transfer window. Nobody is expecting them to win the league or the CL next year. Messi have already said that he is leaving next summer and that he is only staying this year because he doesn't wanna take the club to court in order to get his move.

      All they need to do in this window and probably the next two is to slowly reconstruct their team in a smart way without splashing tons of cash at players they are going to play out of position and crap like that.

      They are in a good negotiating position. The only thing playing against them is the known fact that Koeman wants him which is not a factor set in stone. He could turn around and say I don't need him to the point where we pay the price they ask if its not one we want to pay. They are not in dire need for Gini. Its a sh*t show with or without him in the team. I don't see what are the strings we could pull on, to play hardball here. Unless we are applying a ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy then I think they have the upper hand on this one.

      Caveat: Michael Edwards is very good at his job so who knows. We might end up selling for a price that surprises us all.

      Edit: When I say ''pay the price asked or wait a year'' policy I basically mean us not being bothered losing him on a free. If that's the case then sure we have the upper hand but I do wonder if that is indeed the case.

      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #15: Sep 06, 2020 05:56:35 pm

      It depends what you class as lucky

      Who we are selling to

      Who we are selling

      Who we want to replace

      The figure to sell only really applies to who we replace hiem with or how we see the future

      There is literally no selling price here that's set.. to lose him for a low price as to nothing but get another year of him playing is easily written off
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #16: Sep 06, 2020 06:03:10 pm
      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins

      Exactly make this too easy for barca they coming for more.  We have a lot of very very very good players and they need top top players.  Nah he is available for a bargain if they want to ponce about let them deal with agents not us. 

      As long as only Barca is the option for Gini can still see him sign a contract however low the odds are stack against us. 
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #17: Sep 06, 2020 06:05:05 pm
      Exactly make this too easy for barca they coming for more.  We have a lot of very very very good players and they need top top players.  Nah he is available for a bargain if they want to ponce about let them deal with agents not us. 

      As long as only Barca is the option for Gini can still see him sign a contract however low the odds are stack against us.

      But the odds arent stacked against us

      I wish people would understand where  we are in the footballing world right now
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #18: Sep 06, 2020 06:06:59 pm
      Again I'm glad you're not in charge of our recruitment

      You say they dont need to do anything quick, their fans will accept a slow build

      Nonsense

      You can see with our fans simply "how fans are" and if you think Barcelona fans will be happy to wait a couple of years again you're using your club paranoia to get the best of you.
      We hold all the cards over Barca here

      Imagine the other way around our fans would be kicking up a sh*t storm just like theirs will and they need quick wins
      There will always be fans who want immediate success but there's also a large chunk of people who understand what is going on at their club. Look at us, we want transfers after winning tittles but we understand the financial situation of the club. Even tho there is a large chunk of our fan base that want immediate transfers and are even going to the extent of saying ''FSG out'' that it means that FSG will go and spend big money.

      Like I said, we're not in the Barcelona offices but from outside the club it doesn't look like they are in a rush to buy players to win La Liga and the CL next year. They are cleaning house and anybody reasonable knows they are not serious contenders for trophies next season. Wanting a player and being ready to overpay for him are not two inseparable concepts especially when the player can be signed for free January.

      Edit: also this doesn't mean we're gonna let him go for a ridiculously low price. We will probably have a price we wont go under even if it means letting him move for free. All I am saying is that if our asking price is beyond Barca's valuation of the player then it would be deluded to think we are in driving seat of the negotiations.
      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2020 06:12:27 pm by PolarBearRed »
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #19: Sep 06, 2020 06:08:12 pm
      It depends what you class as lucky

      Who we are selling to

      Who we are selling

      Who we want to replace

      The figure to sell only really applies to who we replace hiem with or how we see the future

      There is literally no selling price here that's set.. to lose him for a low price as to nothing but get another year of him playing is easily written off

      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year
      king kenny
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #20: Sep 06, 2020 06:11:11 pm
      But the odds arent stacked against us

      I wish people would understand where  we are in the footballing world right now

      I think the odds of him signing a contract this late is low. 

      I agree we are in a fantastic position and will keep our players.  But them lot are  dirty and try anything to turn heads.  I wouldn't put anything past them.   We should be firm if we are going to do a deal with them regards to gini.
      chats
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #21: Sep 06, 2020 06:14:24 pm
      If Bayern want 30m euros for Thiago I'd be wanting the same from Barca for Gini.

      I'd be gutted if he were to move on though, been a cracking player for us.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #22: Sep 06, 2020 06:25:37 pm
      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year

      I disagree we have no cards to play but I guess it depends with which confirmation bias you want to look at it

      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #23: Sep 06, 2020 07:06:08 pm
      I disagree we have no cards to play but I guess it depends with which confirmation bias you want to look at it
      I think you are mistaking two things here. You say we, as a club, are now in a spot that people do not understand. Let's do a little comparison to try and untangle what maybe we agree on without even understanding that we do agree on it.

      Bayern (for example) are, reportedly, in a similar situation than us with their midfielder Thiago. We could also say that historically, and this season, they too are in a great position in terms of being huge football club with much appeal and all that stuff.

      Bayern has set a price tag for Thiago. We can also guess that they have a number they are not willing to go under even at the cost of losing him for free. We can try and guess what that number is but it would be useless for the benefit of this exercice. What is important is that this number, in the context of what you are saying, serves as a tool to make sure that a message, which is ''we won't be lowballed or raided for our players'', is sent. It is, if you like, parameters that they have set for any eventual negotiations for Thiago.

      All of this is a position/stance that Bayern chooses to adopt because of where they are as football club (in a position where they can afford to not get pushed beyond a certain point even if it means losing a player on a free) and has nothing to do with factually being in a good or bad negotiating position to obtain the price they have set for Thiago. If Bayern will receive 30M from us for Thiago will depend on if we want to pay that money for Thiago, if we can pay that money, if there is other clubs Thiago would want to join that are willing to pay that money, etc. (all factors that Bayern has absolutely no control on)

      Same stuff applies to Wijnaldum, us and Barcelona. We can set parameters that we wont negotiate out of (a minimum price) but it doesn't mean that within those parameters we hold the cards to steer the price towards the number we set as our valuation of the player (maximum price if you wanna call it so). 

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #24: Sep 06, 2020 08:44:48 pm
      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well

      I'd rather get £15m now than £0 in a years time, so I'm unsure how we hold the cards here, please explain so I can learn from your vast knowledge of business.
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #25: Sep 06, 2020 08:45:42 pm
      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year

      Based on what we saw with Lallana and Clyne the owners don't seem to be bothered if we let players contract run of buyer clubs don't meet our valuation.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #26: Sep 06, 2020 08:47:39 pm
      To be honest, I’d rather lose Gini for free in a years time than sell him to Barca for a poxy 12mill. Another team for 12mill or a fee in that region, wouldn’t be the best still because he’s a  damn good player but I could go along with that providing the money does actually get reinvested. Koeman will be out of a job in a years time so Barca won’t even be after Gini then.

      I know it’s quite clear we have to sell to buy but I really can’t stand that toxic club. Barca have the upper hand in all negotiations regarding Gini because of his contract, they will look to get him as cheap as possible and try to exploit our sell to buy policy. Not having them dictate a fee to us. F**k that.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #27: Sep 06, 2020 08:50:16 pm
      I'd rather get £15m now than £0 in a years time, so I'm unsure how we hold the cards here, please explain so I can learn from your vast knowledge of business.

      Because Barca are are a sh*t show currently and if they want him they pay what we want

      Simple
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #28: Sep 06, 2020 08:52:15 pm
      Based on what we saw with Lallana and Clyne the owners don't seem to be bothered if we let players contract run of buyer clubs don't meet our valuation.

      Who bid for them two ?
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #29: Sep 06, 2020 08:54:13 pm
      To be honest, I’d rather lose Gini for free in a years time than sell him to Barca for a poxy 12mill. Another team for 12mill or a fee in that region, wouldn’t be the best still because he’s a  damn good player but I could go along with that providing the money does actually get reinvested. Koeman will be out of a job in a years time so Barca won’t even be after Gini then.

      I know it’s quite clear we have to sell to buy but I really can’t stand that toxic club. Barca have the upper hand in all negotiations regarding Gini because if his contract, they will look to get him as cheap as possible and try to exploit our sell to buy policy. Not having them dictate a fee to us. F**k that.
      I agree with you. Same feeling from me towards them as well as Real Madrid. F**k them. I'll leave Edwards and the rest of the team decide if we need to cash in on Gini or not but if we don't sell and lose him on a free I'll still be happy about the stance we took.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #30: Sep 06, 2020 08:56:24 pm
      Because Barca are are a sh*t show currently and if they want him they pay what we want

      Simple

      What does them being a "sh*t show" have to do with it, the situation is we either get £15m now, money which we can use to get Thiago or we lose him for free next year and miss out on Thiago as some other club will offer him bigger wages and/or signing on fee as a free agent. You talk about bad negotiations, well take a look in the mirror chump, in fact I have a bridge to sell if you are interested .... 😂
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #31: Sep 06, 2020 09:12:04 pm
      What does them being a "sh*t show" have to do with it, the situation is we either get £15m now, money which we can use to get Thiago or we lose him for free next year and miss out on Thiago as some other club will offer him bigger wages and/or signing on fee as a free agent. You talk about bad negotiations, well take a look in the mirror chump, in fact I have a bridge to sell if you are interested .... 😂

      Ok let me try a different way

      You cant pay your mortgage (the bad publicity surrounding Barca currebtly with the messi/Suarez deals)

      The bank are putting pressure on ( the fans)

      Someone else is selling a  house

      Do you think with all that going on you're on a sound footing to get the best deal.on the next house? Or would you think those sellers would think hes desperate and he needs to get things sorted ?

      You put yourself in the shoes of a Barca fan? All that's going on.
      You lose to Bayern
      You sack your manager
      You hate your president
      One of our favourite players is released with a year to go
      The best player to ever live and your talisman is asking to leave for f**k all and slating your president

      What part of that thinks they arent a sh*t show and need a quick win?

      What part of that thinks we cant get a top end valuation we want for a player?

      What part of that thinks we dont hold all the cards?

      If you did have a bridge to sell youd end up selling it to Barca for f**k all and working on the toll for free
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #32: Sep 06, 2020 10:59:14 pm
      How funny would it be after all this that Thiago goes Barca and we keep Gini  :lmao:
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #33: Sep 06, 2020 11:09:33 pm

      The point I was trying to make (guess it didn't work out ;D) that rather then getting any amount for transfer fee for players whos contracts are running down we seem fine letting it run down.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #34: Sep 06, 2020 11:11:28 pm
      F**k Barca those tight pricks.

      Pay what we want you cu*ts or f**k off.

      Sick of dealing with these tight cu*ts!!!
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #35: Sep 06, 2020 11:12:40 pm
      The point I was trying to make (guess it didn't work out ;D) that rather then getting any amount for transfer fee for players whos contracts are running down we seem fine letting it run down.
      If no one makes an offer though then what choice do they have . You don't think that if someone offered 6m for Clyne we would have turned it down do you rather than lose him.for nothing
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #36: Sep 06, 2020 11:53:27 pm
      If no one makes an offer though then what choice do they have . You don't think that if someone offered 6m for Clyne we would have turned it down do you rather than lose him.for nothing

      Fair enough on the Clyne point but I look at Lallana, Klopp wasn't interested in losing him (if go by rumors we tried to get one year extension) and Adam wasn't interested in staying so FSG didn't come to Klopp to say if he isn't signing we have to sell to get some money. I am sure if club slapped 5m tag on Lallana mid-table to lower EPL level clubs be knocking at the door.

      Klopp wanted him around so he ran down in contract and moved on. Much like i see happening with Gini.

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #37: Sep 07, 2020 12:04:04 am
      Ok let me try a different way

      You cant pay your mortgage (the bad publicity surrounding Barca currebtly with the messi/Suarez deals)

      The bank are putting pressure on ( the fans)

      Someone else is selling a  house

      Do you think with all that going on you're on a sound footing to get the best deal.on the next house? Or would you think those sellers would think hes desperate and he needs to get things sorted ?

      You put yourself in the shoes of a Barca fan? All that's going on.
      You lose to Bayern
      You sack your manager
      You hate your president
      One of our favourite players is released with a year to go
      The best player to ever live and your talisman is asking to leave for f**k all and slating your president

      What part of that thinks they arent a sh*t show and need a quick win?

      What part of that thinks we cant get a top end valuation we want for a player?

      What part of that thinks we dont hold all the cards?

      If you did have a bridge to sell youd end up selling it to Barca for f**k all and working on the toll for free

      Sorry but aside from a poor end to the season where are you getting your info about Barca being in financial trouble or being desperate to buy Gini? You are making a load of wild assumptions and claiming them as facts.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #38: Sep 07, 2020 12:05:41 am
      Fair enough on the Clyne point but I look at Lallana, Klopp wasn't interested in losing him (if go by rumors we tried to get one year extension) and Adam wasn't interested in staying so FSG didn't come to Klopp to say if he isn't signing we have to sell to get some money. I am sure if club slapped 5m tag on Lallana mid-table to lower EPL level clubs be knocking at the door.

      Klopp wanted him around so he ran down in contract and moved on. Much like i see happening with Gini.



      Lallana at that stage was worth f**k all, look where he went as a free agent!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #39: Sep 07, 2020 05:23:33 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here
      Dadorious
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #40: Sep 07, 2020 06:07:28 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here


      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #41: Sep 07, 2020 07:28:33 am
      Sorry but aside from a poor end to the season where are you getting your info about Barca being in financial trouble or being desperate to buy Gini? You are making a load of wild assumptions and claiming them as facts.

      I haven't suggested they're in financial trouble whatsoever

      I'm saying in their fans eyes they need quick wins, fresh faces, new blood to distract from the current sh*t show which is undeniable in its existence

      So the thought we do them a favour for one of our players is simply laughable

      I'm pretty sure our transfer team will be working on the same principles

      You seem to think it's fine that we pay more for Thiago who has openly said he wants to leave than let Gini go who hasnt openly said he wants out right now.
      They're a similar age with the same length of contract at two clubs who are in positions of strength now in football club terms at the top of the game currently
      I find that odd that youd happily let Gini go for 15 and moan that we arent straight away paying 30 for Thiago

      But again I haven't said Barca are struggling financially I said they need some quick wins with their fan base, which is undeniable as they have been protesting outside the Nou camp.
      So if they need positive PR with their fans they should pay what we want, and that's not a cut price deal, whether Gini has a year left or not
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #42: Sep 07, 2020 07:42:08 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here


      So we can afford to throw away £15m on seeing a a player wind down his contract on a free but not £30m to buy one of the best midfielders in the world, do you not find that odd!


      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.

      So letting Can leave on a free enhanced team morale, please explain how?
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #43: Sep 07, 2020 07:46:08 am
      I haven't suggested they're in financial trouble whatsoever

      I'm saying in their fans eyes they need quick wins, fresh faces, new blood to distract from the current sh*t show which is undeniable in its existence

      So the thought we do them a favour for one of our players is simply laughable

      I'm pretty sure our transfer team will be working on the same principles

      You seem to think it's fine that we pay more for Thiago who has openly said he wants to leave than let Gini go who hasnt openly said he wants out right now.
      They're a similar age with the same length of contract at two clubs who are in positions of strength now in football club terms at the top of the game currently
      I find that odd that youd happily let Gini go for 15 and moan that we arent straight away paying 30 for Thiago

      But again I haven't said Barca are struggling financially I said they need some quick wins with their fan base, which is undeniable as they have been protesting outside the Nou camp.
      So if they need positive PR with their fans they should pay what we want, and that's not a cut price deal, whether Gini has a year left or not


      Perhaps they'll be after Origi as well then because I bet the only place the majority of Barca fans know Gini from is that game at Anfield. Gini is not a marquee signing so if they need quick wins they would look elsewhere and let me remind you Gini has NOT signed a contract extension which either means he's being greedy, not good, or wants out of the club, not good for team morale to have him around.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #44: Sep 07, 2020 07:54:43 am

      Perhaps they'll be after Origi as well then because I bet the only place the majority of Barca fans know Gini from is that game at Anfield. Gini is not a marquee signing so if they need quick wins they would look elsewhere and let me remind you Gini has NOT signed a contract extension which either means he's being greedy, not good, or wants out of the club, not good for team morale to have him around.

      You dont half talk some nonsense at times you

      Very disrespectful to Gini of both his talent and his commitment

      You're so blinked and this is why some think you're a WUM

      You know next to f**k all about his relationships within the group or the team spirit we have
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #45: Sep 07, 2020 07:58:53 am
      You dont half talk some nonsense at times you

      Very disrespectful to Gini of both his talent and his commitment

      You're so blinked and this is why some think you're a WUM

      You know next to f**k all about his relationships within the group or the team spirit we have

      Why has he so far refused to sign an extension?
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #46: Sep 07, 2020 08:07:08 am
      Why has he so far refused to sign an extension?

      I like you have no idea but I unlike you dont make snap judgements on it
      From what I have read it's more to do with the length of contract than anything else

      Why hasnt Thiago? Thiago is apparently on 205k a week. Gini is on 75k basic.
      You think it's to do with money from Thiago?
      Gini has been on the same contract since we signed him from Newcastle and has contributed massively to where we are now.. Hes been ultra committed and very professional

      But for you hes a just a greedy c**t
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #47: Sep 07, 2020 08:23:17 am

      I like you have no idea but I unlike you dont make snap judgements on it
      From what I have read it's more to do with the length of contract than anything else

      Why hasnt Thiago? Thiago is apparently on 205k a week. Gini is on 75k basic.
      You think it's to do with money from Thiago?
      Gini has been on the same contract since we signed him from Newcastle and has contributed massively to where we are now.. Hes been ultra committed and very professional

      But for you hes a just a greedy c**t

      Massive bargain, never injured, contributed in the biggest moments.

      No chance Wijnaldum is being a c**t - deserves another 4 years in my opinion.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #48: Sep 07, 2020 08:37:06 am
      I like you have no idea but I unlike you dont make snap judgements on it
      From what I have read it's more to do with the length of contract than anything else

      Why hasnt Thiago? Thiago is apparently on 205k a week. Gini is on 75k basic.
      You think it's to do with money from Thiago?
      Gini has been on the same contract since we signed him from Newcastle and has contributed massively to where we are now.. Hes been ultra committed and very professional

      But for you hes a just a greedy c**t

      I never said Gini was greedy, please show me the post where I said that! I think both Gini and Thiago want a new challenge, Thiago has openly said he does, so we know what his rationale is. Gini is possibly the same, or perhaps the club are lowballing him, but I really really doubt that, we seem as a club to reward our players very well, hence the third highest wage bill.

      My point is that if Gini had decided he wants to move then its foolish to force him to stay and risk losing £15m.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #49: Sep 07, 2020 08:45:53 am
      I never said Gini was greedy, please show me the post where I said that! I think both Gini and Thiago want a new challenge, Thiago has openly said he does, so we know what his rationale is. Gini is possibly the same, or perhaps the club are lowballing him, but I really really doubt that, we seem as a club to reward our players very well, hence the third highest wage bill.

      My point is that if Gini had decided he wants to move then its foolish to force him to stay and risk losing £15m.

      Oh come on you've hinted at it numerous times, I cant be bothered to search through your posts again as it was bad enough reading them the first time

      My point being its up to the club/manager to see what's best for the club, and that may well be letting him see out his deal and get another years worth of service
      Cashing in isnt always the answer
      But if you do want to cash in you sell him at your valuation not theirs or just what you can get

      You're happy to pay 30 as quick as possible for Thiago
      And then you're happy to sell Gini for 15 as quick as possible

      Thats not the way to do business
      FL Red
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #50: Sep 07, 2020 09:16:01 am
      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.

      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.
      WeAreMenOfShanklysBest
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #51: Sep 07, 2020 09:26:30 am



      No chance Wijnaldum is being a c**t - deserves another 4 years in my opinion.

      Ya I agree 4 years would make him contracted until he’s 33 going on 34. He’ll be very good player until he’s 35/36 he’s never injured.

      I’ll be gutted if he does go. Huge part of Klopps reign.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #52: Sep 07, 2020 09:37:33 am
      Oh come on you've hinted at it numerous times, I cant be bothered to search through your posts again as it was bad enough reading them the first time

      My point being its up to the club/manager to see what's best for the club, and that may well be letting him see out his deal and get another years worth of service
      Cashing in isnt always the answer
      But if you do want to cash in you sell him at your valuation not theirs or just what you can get

      You're happy to pay 30 as quick as possible for Thiago
      And then you're happy to sell Gini for 15 as quick as possible

      Thats not the way to do business

      If you can't find the posts stop casting aspersions and libelling me. The only case where it would make sense to let a player see out his contract is if he is absolutely crucial to the team, which Gini isn't, or effectively has no transfer value, which is not true for Gini.

      In an ideal world Gini and Thiago wold be worth the same, the difference between the two is that there is more than one club sniffing around for Thiago, as far as we know only one club is interested in Gini, that gives Bayern far more leverage than us, plus as I pointed out before they are worth more than us with bigger revenues, better squad, easier league etc.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #53: Sep 07, 2020 09:43:51 am
      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.

      Yea where did I say otherwise? I expect he will be  taking the same approach with Gini. We have been in dialogue with him on his new contract for a while.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #54: Sep 07, 2020 10:27:13 am
      If you can't find the posts stop casting aspersions and libelling me. The only case where it would make sense to let a player see out his contract is if he is absolutely crucial to the team, which Gini isn't, or effectively has no transfer value, which is not true for Gini.

      In an ideal world Gini and Thiago wold be worth the same, the difference between the two is that there is more than one club sniffing around for Thiago, as far as we know only one club is interested in Gini, that gives Bayern far more leverage than us, plus as I pointed out before they are worth more than us with bigger revenues, better squad, easier league etc.

      Libelling you 😀

      Gini is crucial, if you cant see that then you're a lost cause mate

      How do you know there is more clubs interested in Thiago? Apart from media chat? Unless you're an insider at Bayern?

      I mean we could start a rumour about 5300 more clubs interested in Gini if that helps you with how to drive a bargain?

      Please if Mike Edward's leaves his post, dont apply, we'd be fu**ed
      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #55: Sep 07, 2020 12:56:29 pm
      Ya I agree 4 years would make him contracted until he’s 33 going on 34. He’ll be very good player until he’s 35/36 he’s never injured.

      I’ll be gutted if he does go. Huge part of Klopps reign.

      And look at Millie. Still cuts it at that age. Possible and can be done. Would probably be an expert in the Dyson role by that age, mopping things up and playing the quarterback role. Why not? Just avoid looking at his assists!
      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #56: Sep 07, 2020 12:58:49 pm
      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.

      And look at where Can and our team is today. Phil as well to some extent, taking into account his CL win as a mitigator.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #57: Sep 07, 2020 01:04:01 pm
      So we can afford to throw away £15m on seeing a a player wind down his contract on a free but not £30m to buy one of the best midfielders in the world, do you not find that odd!


      So letting Can leave on a free enhanced team morale, please explain how?

      You are just looking at a ledger. The value is in the players and what they offer the team. They deliver things. A player who is happy, indeed a group of players who are happy, for various reasons including knowing that they are not being treated as pieces of meat to be bought and sold without regard to their own interests, there is a value to that. Players staying together longer rather than changing major parts of the team every year, there is value to that. You can't just go based on the transfer fees.

      And then there's the whole financial situation that I've mentioned before. Have you read the very thorough analysis by Swiss Ramble on the club's accounts? You really should try and be objective and read what it says.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #58: Sep 07, 2020 01:07:23 pm
      You are just looking at a ledger. The value is in the players and what they offer the team. They deliver things. A player who is happy, indeed a group of players who are happy, for various reasons including knowing that they are not being treated as pieces of meat to be bought and sold without regard to their own interests, there is a value to that. Players staying together longer rather than changing major parts of the team every year, there is value to that. You can't just go based on the transfer fees.

      And then there's the whole financial situation that I've mentioned before. Have you read the very thorough analysis by Swiss Ramble on the club's accounts? You really should try and be objective and read what it says.

      So you think its better for the team to keep a slightly annoyed Gini for an extra year AND lose out on £15m? You're gonna have to explain that one further please because I simply don't get it.

      Do you have a link to the Swiss ramble financial breakdown, I'd like to read that to understand how we are in such a bad financial state?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #59: Sep 07, 2020 01:15:30 pm
      So you think its better for the team to keep a slightly annoyed Gini for an extra year AND lose out on £15m? You're gonna have to explain that one further please because I simply don't get it.

      Do you have a link to the Swiss ramble financial breakdown, I'd like to read that to understand how we are in such a bad financial state?

      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #60: Sep 07, 2020 01:47:17 pm
      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor




      Thanks I will take a look at that, if you read all my posts then you will see that I do try to form coherent arguments although they may not all be in one thread. The reason why I say bad financial state is based on a the simple fact that we are not spending any money for a second consecutive summer window, yes these are weird times, but other clubs are spending, so why are we on a strict sell to buy basis. I have even given a reason for why this might be, namely that owners might have taken to much money out of the club to repay their loans after record profits were announced and then got stung with covid. This is of course an assumption on my part but it would explain our current situation, ie very poor cash flow.
      As for Gini being slightly annoyed, I'd be amazed if he wasn't if we block his move to Barclona, ASSUMING that's where he wants to go. You see again these are all assumptions rather than facts, but they are assumptions based on the available data, I'm not quite sure how I'm being disrespectful or trying to wind anyone up, please explain this further so that I can better myself?
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #61: Sep 07, 2020 02:03:57 pm
      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor




      That was interesting, but I'm still not quite clear where the money went, something about bonus payments increasing the wage bill I think, which doesn't seem to affect City as much, quite weird! 
      In summary our financial position seems to be improving rapidly under FSG but in many respects we are still behind the other top 6 clubs, I can live with that, we are certainly moving in the right direction.
      Having said that I'd still like to see us find some money to fund at least one transfer.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #62: Sep 07, 2020 08:35:37 pm
      That was interesting, but I'm still not quite clear where the money went, something about bonus payments increasing the wage bill I think, which doesn't seem to affect City as much, quite weird! 
      In summary our financial position seems to be improving rapidly under FSG but in many respects we are still behind the other top 6 clubs, I can live with that, we are certainly moving in the right direction.
      Having said that I'd still like to see us find some money to fund at least one transfer.

      Sure you would, but the financials, particularly looking ahead, do not support that. The alternative as explained in the thread with all the tables (which you spent about 15 minutes on judging by time stamps of your posts), is the club taking out loans or the owners paying their personal money into the club (which would have FFP ramifications and which they've said all along they won't be doing anyway). Yes there was 34 million in loan repayment, the zero-interest loan from the owners which has been key to getting the club back to financial health. The owners don't collect a dividend from the club's profits/revenue.

      As he estimates in the closing posts, from the end of last season through the coming season, the club may be looking at a 100 million shortfall in revenue, due to (in order) losses in match day, commercial and broadcasting revenue. Obviously this number is uncertain because we don't know what the coming season will bring CoVid-wise. But that is the point, in terms of wanting the club to spend money. You can't just say in a vacuum that you want the club to spend more money.

      Other clubs, as the thread goes into, run on different business models, almost always involving a lot more debt. We don't do that, and especially given the world financial situation, that is a very good thing (not even getting into the on-field success it has helped this team achieved recently).


      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #63: Sep 07, 2020 09:50:31 pm
      Sure you would, but the financials, particularly looking ahead, do not support that. The alternative as explained in the thread with all the tables (which you spent about 15 minutes on judging by time stamps of your posts), is the club taking out loans or the owners paying their personal money into the club (which would have FFP ramifications and which they've said all along they won't be doing anyway). Yes there was 34 million in loan repayment, the zero-interest loan from the owners which has been key to getting the club back to financial health. The owners don't collect a dividend from the club's profits/revenue.

      As he estimates in the closing posts, from the end of last season through the coming season, the club may be looking at a 100 million shortfall in revenue, due to (in order) losses in match day, commercial and broadcasting revenue. Obviously this number is uncertain because we don't know what the coming season will bring CoVid-wise. But that is the point, in terms of wanting the club to spend money. You can't just say in a vacuum that you want the club to spend more money.

      Other clubs, as the thread goes into, run on different business models, almost always involving a lot more debt. We don't do that, and especially given the world financial situation, that is a very good thing (not even getting into the on-field success it has helped this team achieved recently).




      Not sure how slowly you read but I did actually read that thread in 15 mins, not quite sure why you are attacking me?
      And people call me a wum!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #64: Sep 07, 2020 09:58:58 pm
      Not sure how slowly you read but I did actually read that thread in 15 mins, not quite sure why you are attacking me?
      And people call me a wum!

      I'm not attacking you, not in any way.

      I read slowly enough to digest what I'm reading - for the sake of understanding what is being presented.

      The thread answers your repeated question "why aren't we spending more/why can't we buy player X?"
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #65: Sep 08, 2020 09:18:17 am
      I'm not attacking you, not in any way.

      I read slowly enough to digest what I'm reading - for the sake of understanding what is being presented.

      The thread answers your repeated question "why aren't we spending more/why can't we buy player X?"

      and I acknowledged that, we are simply not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 clubs, but we are improving every year. Also the fact that the owners decided to repay some of their loan out of the profits right before Covid hit fecked up our cash flow, as was my earlier assumption.

      All in all I'm ok with that but if I was the owner I'd be looking to take a small risk, take out a perfectly serviceable loan and get Thiago and Sarr signed up.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #66: Sep 08, 2020 10:20:00 am
      and I acknowledged that, we are simply not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 clubs, but we are improving every year. Also the fact that the owners decided to repay some of their loan out of the profits right before Covid hit fecked up our cash flow, as was my earlier assumption.

      All in all I'm ok with that but if I was the owner I'd be looking to take a small risk, take out a perfectly serviceable loan and get Thiago and Sarr signed up.

      Yes you would.

      But wouldn't you also have sacked Klopp more than once, sold Salah, and bought Norwich's striker?  ;D
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #67: Sep 08, 2020 10:31:59 am
      Yes you would.

      But wouldn't you also have sacked Klopp more than once, sold Salah, and bought Norwich's striker?  ;D

      hmm, is that a bit of wumming from you? I won't be challenged for King Wum!! ;-)
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #68: Sep 08, 2020 10:59:35 am
      hmm, is that a bit of wumming from you? I won't be challenged for King Wum!! ;-)

      No, I think you have advocated for all of those things (and much more) over the years.

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #69: Sep 08, 2020 12:02:50 pm
      No, I think you have advocated for all of those things (and much more) over the years.



      OK you clearly have some sort of issue with me pal and its getting a bit tiresome to be honest with you.

      Regarding Klopp I was unhappy with some of the things he did in his first few seasons but I'm not sure I ever consistently called for him to go, perhaps I did in an angry rant but I certainly don't hold that opinion now so what's the relevance of mentioning it?
      Regarding Mo, I still hold the view that if we could bring in a top class forward then I'd sell him, but it would have to be someone at the level of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Muller etc, ie top echelon.
      Regarding the Norwich striker Puki I think I mentioned signing him in relation to us not strengthening last summer, I thought he could have been a very good option for our squad, but his form went over a cliff so in hindsight probably not a big loss.

      Any other old topics you want to drag up in your attempt at wumming?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #70: Sep 08, 2020 01:14:40 pm
      OK you clearly have some sort of issue with me pal and its getting a bit tiresome to be honest with you.

      Regarding Klopp I was unhappy with some of the things he did in his first few seasons but I'm not sure I ever consistently called for him to go, perhaps I did in an angry rant but I certainly don't hold that opinion now so what's the relevance of mentioning it?
      Regarding Mo, I still hold the view that if we could bring in a top class forward then I'd sell him, but it would have to be someone at the level of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Muller etc, ie top echelon.
      Regarding the Norwich striker Puki I think I mentioned signing him in relation to us not strengthening last summer, I thought he could have been a very good option for our squad, but his form went over a cliff so in hindsight probably not a big loss.

      Any other old topics you want to drag up in your attempt at wumming?

      Wumming typically is advancing things that are not true in order to evoke an angry response. You've just owned up to each of the things I mentioned. Not wumming.

      I really don't have an issue with you other than that I disagree with almost everything you say. You argue with things I post, and fair enough, it's a discussion board. I don't mind. I reserve the right to debate topics and in this case, I appealed to the actual facts on our finances as to why we aren't making the purchases you want. You answered that if you were owner, you'd take out a loan to buy those players. I just mentioned that with the things you've advocated over the past few years, if you were the owner we wouldn't be in the same boat at this point. THAT is why I brought up past comments of yours. Words mean things.

      But it really is not personal. None of this is life and death stuff, at least not for me.

      If I met you in person I'd buy you a beer and we could talk about it all, or something else.
      Benladdie3000
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #71: Sep 18, 2020 06:40:33 pm
      Ideally we keep him and have a midfield to go after all 4 comps

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