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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça / Bayern Munich)

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      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #23: Sep 06, 2020 07:06:08 pm
      I disagree we have no cards to play but I guess it depends with which confirmation bias you want to look at it
      I think you are mistaking two things here. You say we, as a club, are now in a spot that people do not understand. Let's do a little comparison to try and untangle what maybe we agree on without even understanding that we do agree on it.

      Bayern (for example) are, reportedly, in a similar situation than us with their midfielder Thiago. We could also say that historically, and this season, they too are in a great position in terms of being huge football club with much appeal and all that stuff.

      Bayern has set a price tag for Thiago. We can also guess that they have a number they are not willing to go under even at the cost of losing him for free. We can try and guess what that number is but it would be useless for the benefit of this exercice. What is important is that this number, in the context of what you are saying, serves as a tool to make sure that a message, which is ''we won't be lowballed or raided for our players'', is sent. It is, if you like, parameters that they have set for any eventual negotiations for Thiago.

      All of this is a position/stance that Bayern chooses to adopt because of where they are as football club (in a position where they can afford to not get pushed beyond a certain point even if it means losing a player on a free) and has nothing to do with factually being in a good or bad negotiating position to obtain the price they have set for Thiago. If Bayern will receive 30M from us for Thiago will depend on if we want to pay that money for Thiago, if we can pay that money, if there is other clubs Thiago would want to join that are willing to pay that money, etc. (all factors that Bayern has absolutely no control on)

      Same stuff applies to Wijnaldum, us and Barcelona. We can set parameters that we wont negotiate out of (a minimum price) but it doesn't mean that within those parameters we hold the cards to steer the price towards the number we set as our valuation of the player (maximum price if you wanna call it so). 

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #24: Sep 06, 2020 08:44:48 pm
      You're placing Gini's attitude levels along side your own

      No way he drops half a % if he stays

      Youd be sh*t at negotiations, youd sell at the first offer
      We essentially hold the cards here (as in low fee against f**k all against Klopp getting another year out of him)

      You're ignoring the state of Barca here as well

      I'd rather get £15m now than £0 in a years time, so I'm unsure how we hold the cards here, please explain so I can learn from your vast knowledge of business.
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #25: Sep 06, 2020 08:45:42 pm
      What I class as Lucky is that it may actually be less probably 18m we have no cards to play here with the situation we are in and I highly doubt FSG will want nothing and to carry on paying his wages for another year

      Based on what we saw with Lallana and Clyne the owners don't seem to be bothered if we let players contract run of buyer clubs don't meet our valuation.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #26: Sep 06, 2020 08:47:39 pm
      To be honest, I’d rather lose Gini for free in a years time than sell him to Barca for a poxy 12mill. Another team for 12mill or a fee in that region, wouldn’t be the best still because he’s a  damn good player but I could go along with that providing the money does actually get reinvested. Koeman will be out of a job in a years time so Barca won’t even be after Gini then.

      I know it’s quite clear we have to sell to buy but I really can’t stand that toxic club. Barca have the upper hand in all negotiations regarding Gini because of his contract, they will look to get him as cheap as possible and try to exploit our sell to buy policy. Not having them dictate a fee to us. F**k that.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #27: Sep 06, 2020 08:50:16 pm
      I'd rather get £15m now than £0 in a years time, so I'm unsure how we hold the cards here, please explain so I can learn from your vast knowledge of business.

      Because Barca are are a sh*t show currently and if they want him they pay what we want

      Simple
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #28: Sep 06, 2020 08:52:15 pm
      Based on what we saw with Lallana and Clyne the owners don't seem to be bothered if we let players contract run of buyer clubs don't meet our valuation.

      Who bid for them two ?
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #29: Sep 06, 2020 08:54:13 pm
      To be honest, I’d rather lose Gini for free in a years time than sell him to Barca for a poxy 12mill. Another team for 12mill or a fee in that region, wouldn’t be the best still because he’s a  damn good player but I could go along with that providing the money does actually get reinvested. Koeman will be out of a job in a years time so Barca won’t even be after Gini then.

      I know it’s quite clear we have to sell to buy but I really can’t stand that toxic club. Barca have the upper hand in all negotiations regarding Gini because if his contract, they will look to get him as cheap as possible and try to exploit our sell to buy policy. Not having them dictate a fee to us. F**k that.
      I agree with you. Same feeling from me towards them as well as Real Madrid. F**k them. I'll leave Edwards and the rest of the team decide if we need to cash in on Gini or not but if we don't sell and lose him on a free I'll still be happy about the stance we took.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #30: Sep 06, 2020 08:56:24 pm
      Because Barca are are a sh*t show currently and if they want him they pay what we want

      Simple

      What does them being a "sh*t show" have to do with it, the situation is we either get £15m now, money which we can use to get Thiago or we lose him for free next year and miss out on Thiago as some other club will offer him bigger wages and/or signing on fee as a free agent. You talk about bad negotiations, well take a look in the mirror chump, in fact I have a bridge to sell if you are interested .... 😂
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #31: Sep 06, 2020 09:12:04 pm
      What does them being a "sh*t show" have to do with it, the situation is we either get £15m now, money which we can use to get Thiago or we lose him for free next year and miss out on Thiago as some other club will offer him bigger wages and/or signing on fee as a free agent. You talk about bad negotiations, well take a look in the mirror chump, in fact I have a bridge to sell if you are interested .... 😂

      Ok let me try a different way

      You cant pay your mortgage (the bad publicity surrounding Barca currebtly with the messi/Suarez deals)

      The bank are putting pressure on ( the fans)

      Someone else is selling a  house

      Do you think with all that going on you're on a sound footing to get the best deal.on the next house? Or would you think those sellers would think hes desperate and he needs to get things sorted ?

      You put yourself in the shoes of a Barca fan? All that's going on.
      You lose to Bayern
      You sack your manager
      You hate your president
      One of our favourite players is released with a year to go
      The best player to ever live and your talisman is asking to leave for f**k all and slating your president

      What part of that thinks they arent a sh*t show and need a quick win?

      What part of that thinks we cant get a top end valuation we want for a player?

      What part of that thinks we dont hold all the cards?

      If you did have a bridge to sell youd end up selling it to Barca for f**k all and working on the toll for free
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #32: Sep 06, 2020 10:59:14 pm
      How funny would it be after all this that Thiago goes Barca and we keep Gini  :lmao:
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #33: Sep 06, 2020 11:09:33 pm

      The point I was trying to make (guess it didn't work out ;D) that rather then getting any amount for transfer fee for players whos contracts are running down we seem fine letting it run down.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #34: Sep 06, 2020 11:11:28 pm
      F**k Barca those tight pricks.

      Pay what we want you cu*ts or f**k off.

      Sick of dealing with these tight cu*ts!!!
      rossyred
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #35: Sep 06, 2020 11:12:40 pm
      The point I was trying to make (guess it didn't work out ;D) that rather then getting any amount for transfer fee for players whos contracts are running down we seem fine letting it run down.
      If no one makes an offer though then what choice do they have . You don't think that if someone offered 6m for Clyne we would have turned it down do you rather than lose him.for nothing
      adammac
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #36: Sep 06, 2020 11:53:27 pm
      If no one makes an offer though then what choice do they have . You don't think that if someone offered 6m for Clyne we would have turned it down do you rather than lose him.for nothing

      Fair enough on the Clyne point but I look at Lallana, Klopp wasn't interested in losing him (if go by rumors we tried to get one year extension) and Adam wasn't interested in staying so FSG didn't come to Klopp to say if he isn't signing we have to sell to get some money. I am sure if club slapped 5m tag on Lallana mid-table to lower EPL level clubs be knocking at the door.

      Klopp wanted him around so he ran down in contract and moved on. Much like i see happening with Gini.

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #37: Sep 07, 2020 12:04:04 am
      Ok let me try a different way

      You cant pay your mortgage (the bad publicity surrounding Barca currebtly with the messi/Suarez deals)

      The bank are putting pressure on ( the fans)

      Someone else is selling a  house

      Do you think with all that going on you're on a sound footing to get the best deal.on the next house? Or would you think those sellers would think hes desperate and he needs to get things sorted ?

      You put yourself in the shoes of a Barca fan? All that's going on.
      You lose to Bayern
      You sack your manager
      You hate your president
      One of our favourite players is released with a year to go
      The best player to ever live and your talisman is asking to leave for f**k all and slating your president

      What part of that thinks they arent a sh*t show and need a quick win?

      What part of that thinks we cant get a top end valuation we want for a player?

      What part of that thinks we dont hold all the cards?

      If you did have a bridge to sell youd end up selling it to Barca for f**k all and working on the toll for free

      Sorry but aside from a poor end to the season where are you getting your info about Barca being in financial trouble or being desperate to buy Gini? You are making a load of wild assumptions and claiming them as facts.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #38: Sep 07, 2020 12:05:41 am
      Fair enough on the Clyne point but I look at Lallana, Klopp wasn't interested in losing him (if go by rumors we tried to get one year extension) and Adam wasn't interested in staying so FSG didn't come to Klopp to say if he isn't signing we have to sell to get some money. I am sure if club slapped 5m tag on Lallana mid-table to lower EPL level clubs be knocking at the door.

      Klopp wanted him around so he ran down in contract and moved on. Much like i see happening with Gini.



      Lallana at that stage was worth f**k all, look where he went as a free agent!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #39: Sep 07, 2020 05:23:33 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here
      Dadorious
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #40: Sep 07, 2020 06:07:28 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here


      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #41: Sep 07, 2020 07:28:33 am
      Sorry but aside from a poor end to the season where are you getting your info about Barca being in financial trouble or being desperate to buy Gini? You are making a load of wild assumptions and claiming them as facts.

      I haven't suggested they're in financial trouble whatsoever

      I'm saying in their fans eyes they need quick wins, fresh faces, new blood to distract from the current sh*t show which is undeniable in its existence

      So the thought we do them a favour for one of our players is simply laughable

      I'm pretty sure our transfer team will be working on the same principles

      You seem to think it's fine that we pay more for Thiago who has openly said he wants to leave than let Gini go who hasnt openly said he wants out right now.
      They're a similar age with the same length of contract at two clubs who are in positions of strength now in football club terms at the top of the game currently
      I find that odd that youd happily let Gini go for 15 and moan that we arent straight away paying 30 for Thiago

      But again I haven't said Barca are struggling financially I said they need some quick wins with their fan base, which is undeniable as they have been protesting outside the Nou camp.
      So if they need positive PR with their fans they should pay what we want, and that's not a cut price deal, whether Gini has a year left or not
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #42: Sep 07, 2020 07:42:08 am
      Remember that Klopp letting players see out their contract and then make their own deal is part of what makes him so well liked by players.

      This translates to good team chemistry and thus, results, and also to players wanting to come here


      So we can afford to throw away £15m on seeing a a player wind down his contract on a free but not £30m to buy one of the best midfielders in the world, do you not find that odd!


      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.

      So letting Can leave on a free enhanced team morale, please explain how?
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #43: Sep 07, 2020 07:46:08 am
      I haven't suggested they're in financial trouble whatsoever

      I'm saying in their fans eyes they need quick wins, fresh faces, new blood to distract from the current sh*t show which is undeniable in its existence

      So the thought we do them a favour for one of our players is simply laughable

      I'm pretty sure our transfer team will be working on the same principles

      You seem to think it's fine that we pay more for Thiago who has openly said he wants to leave than let Gini go who hasnt openly said he wants out right now.
      They're a similar age with the same length of contract at two clubs who are in positions of strength now in football club terms at the top of the game currently
      I find that odd that youd happily let Gini go for 15 and moan that we arent straight away paying 30 for Thiago

      But again I haven't said Barca are struggling financially I said they need some quick wins with their fan base, which is undeniable as they have been protesting outside the Nou camp.
      So if they need positive PR with their fans they should pay what we want, and that's not a cut price deal, whether Gini has a year left or not


      Perhaps they'll be after Origi as well then because I bet the only place the majority of Barca fans know Gini from is that game at Anfield. Gini is not a marquee signing so if they need quick wins they would look elsewhere and let me remind you Gini has NOT signed a contract extension which either means he's being greedy, not good, or wants out of the club, not good for team morale to have him around.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #44: Sep 07, 2020 07:54:43 am

      Perhaps they'll be after Origi as well then because I bet the only place the majority of Barca fans know Gini from is that game at Anfield. Gini is not a marquee signing so if they need quick wins they would look elsewhere and let me remind you Gini has NOT signed a contract extension which either means he's being greedy, not good, or wants out of the club, not good for team morale to have him around.

      You dont half talk some nonsense at times you

      Very disrespectful to Gini of both his talent and his commitment

      You're so blinked and this is why some think you're a WUM

      You know next to f**k all about his relationships within the group or the team spirit we have
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #45: Sep 07, 2020 07:58:53 am
      You dont half talk some nonsense at times you

      Very disrespectful to Gini of both his talent and his commitment

      You're so blinked and this is why some think you're a WUM

      You know next to f**k all about his relationships within the group or the team spirit we have

      Why has he so far refused to sign an extension?

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