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      Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)

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      FL Red
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #50: Sep 07, 2020 09:16:01 am
      Exactly. Look at Emre Can as an example, JK won’t be in a rush to offload him.

      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.
      WeAreMenOfShanklysBest
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #51: Sep 07, 2020 09:26:30 am



      No chance Wijnaldum is being a c**t - deserves another 4 years in my opinion.

      Ya I agree 4 years would make him contracted until he’s 33 going on 34. He’ll be very good player until he’s 35/36 he’s never injured.

      I’ll be gutted if he does go. Huge part of Klopps reign.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #52: Sep 07, 2020 09:37:33 am
      Oh come on you've hinted at it numerous times, I cant be bothered to search through your posts again as it was bad enough reading them the first time

      My point being its up to the club/manager to see what's best for the club, and that may well be letting him see out his deal and get another years worth of service
      Cashing in isnt always the answer
      But if you do want to cash in you sell him at your valuation not theirs or just what you can get

      You're happy to pay 30 as quick as possible for Thiago
      And then you're happy to sell Gini for 15 as quick as possible

      Thats not the way to do business

      If you can't find the posts stop casting aspersions and libelling me. The only case where it would make sense to let a player see out his contract is if he is absolutely crucial to the team, which Gini isn't, or effectively has no transfer value, which is not true for Gini.

      In an ideal world Gini and Thiago wold be worth the same, the difference between the two is that there is more than one club sniffing around for Thiago, as far as we know only one club is interested in Gini, that gives Bayern far more leverage than us, plus as I pointed out before they are worth more than us with bigger revenues, better squad, easier league etc.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #53: Sep 07, 2020 09:43:51 am
      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.

      Yea where did I say otherwise? I expect he will be  taking the same approach with Gini. We have been in dialogue with him on his new contract for a while.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #54: Sep 07, 2020 10:27:13 am
      If you can't find the posts stop casting aspersions and libelling me. The only case where it would make sense to let a player see out his contract is if he is absolutely crucial to the team, which Gini isn't, or effectively has no transfer value, which is not true for Gini.

      In an ideal world Gini and Thiago wold be worth the same, the difference between the two is that there is more than one club sniffing around for Thiago, as far as we know only one club is interested in Gini, that gives Bayern far more leverage than us, plus as I pointed out before they are worth more than us with bigger revenues, better squad, easier league etc.

      Libelling you 😀

      Gini is crucial, if you cant see that then you're a lost cause mate

      How do you know there is more clubs interested in Thiago? Apart from media chat? Unless you're an insider at Bayern?

      I mean we could start a rumour about 5300 more clubs interested in Gini if that helps you with how to drive a bargain?

      Please if Mike Edward's leaves his post, dont apply, we'd be fu**ed
      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #55: Sep 07, 2020 12:56:29 pm
      Ya I agree 4 years would make him contracted until he’s 33 going on 34. He’ll be very good player until he’s 35/36 he’s never injured.

      I’ll be gutted if he does go. Huge part of Klopps reign.

      And look at Millie. Still cuts it at that age. Possible and can be done. Would probably be an expert in the Dyson role by that age, mopping things up and playing the quarterback role. Why not? Just avoid looking at his assists!
      ruthcity
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #56: Sep 07, 2020 12:58:49 pm
      We tried to sign Can, he refused our offer and we said fine leave. It’s not like Klopp planned to let him leave.

      And look at where Can and our team is today. Phil as well to some extent, taking into account his CL win as a mitigator.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #57: Sep 07, 2020 01:04:01 pm
      So we can afford to throw away £15m on seeing a a player wind down his contract on a free but not £30m to buy one of the best midfielders in the world, do you not find that odd!


      So letting Can leave on a free enhanced team morale, please explain how?

      You are just looking at a ledger. The value is in the players and what they offer the team. They deliver things. A player who is happy, indeed a group of players who are happy, for various reasons including knowing that they are not being treated as pieces of meat to be bought and sold without regard to their own interests, there is a value to that. Players staying together longer rather than changing major parts of the team every year, there is value to that. You can't just go based on the transfer fees.

      And then there's the whole financial situation that I've mentioned before. Have you read the very thorough analysis by Swiss Ramble on the club's accounts? You really should try and be objective and read what it says.
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #58: Sep 07, 2020 01:07:23 pm
      You are just looking at a ledger. The value is in the players and what they offer the team. They deliver things. A player who is happy, indeed a group of players who are happy, for various reasons including knowing that they are not being treated as pieces of meat to be bought and sold without regard to their own interests, there is a value to that. Players staying together longer rather than changing major parts of the team every year, there is value to that. You can't just go based on the transfer fees.

      And then there's the whole financial situation that I've mentioned before. Have you read the very thorough analysis by Swiss Ramble on the club's accounts? You really should try and be objective and read what it says.

      So you think its better for the team to keep a slightly annoyed Gini for an extra year AND lose out on £15m? You're gonna have to explain that one further please because I simply don't get it.

      Do you have a link to the Swiss ramble financial breakdown, I'd like to read that to understand how we are in such a bad financial state?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #59: Sep 07, 2020 01:15:30 pm
      So you think its better for the team to keep a slightly annoyed Gini for an extra year AND lose out on £15m? You're gonna have to explain that one further please because I simply don't get it.

      Do you have a link to the Swiss ramble financial breakdown, I'd like to read that to understand how we are in such a bad financial state?

      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #60: Sep 07, 2020 01:47:17 pm
      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor




      Thanks I will take a look at that, if you read all my posts then you will see that I do try to form coherent arguments although they may not all be in one thread. The reason why I say bad financial state is based on a the simple fact that we are not spending any money for a second consecutive summer window, yes these are weird times, but other clubs are spending, so why are we on a strict sell to buy basis. I have even given a reason for why this might be, namely that owners might have taken to much money out of the club to repay their loans after record profits were announced and then got stung with covid. This is of course an assumption on my part but it would explain our current situation, ie very poor cash flow.
      As for Gini being slightly annoyed, I'd be amazed if he wasn't if we block his move to Barclona, ASSUMING that's where he wants to go. You see again these are all assumptions rather than facts, but they are assumptions based on the available data, I'm not quite sure how I'm being disrespectful or trying to wind anyone up, please explain this further so that I can better myself?
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #61: Sep 07, 2020 02:03:57 pm
      First, you make too many presuppositions. "slightly annoyed Gini" is one example. "bad financial state is another.'  Try to be objective in considering other points of view, rather than assuming your take on things.

      The "bad financial state" remark tells me you probably aren't going to give this extensive rundown a fair consideration. I just took you off ignore last week after more than a year, and I'm trying to engage with you, but at times you really don't seem to debate in good faith (hence the WUM remarks now and again).

      You can disagree with my opinions of course, but when you make these slight alterations or more than slight, to what has been stated, it doesnt do much for the discussion.

      Nonetheless, here is the twitter feed. Please take it seriously.

      https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor




      That was interesting, but I'm still not quite clear where the money went, something about bonus payments increasing the wage bill I think, which doesn't seem to affect City as much, quite weird! 
      In summary our financial position seems to be improving rapidly under FSG but in many respects we are still behind the other top 6 clubs, I can live with that, we are certainly moving in the right direction.
      Having said that I'd still like to see us find some money to fund at least one transfer.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #62: Sep 07, 2020 08:35:37 pm
      That was interesting, but I'm still not quite clear where the money went, something about bonus payments increasing the wage bill I think, which doesn't seem to affect City as much, quite weird! 
      In summary our financial position seems to be improving rapidly under FSG but in many respects we are still behind the other top 6 clubs, I can live with that, we are certainly moving in the right direction.
      Having said that I'd still like to see us find some money to fund at least one transfer.

      Sure you would, but the financials, particularly looking ahead, do not support that. The alternative as explained in the thread with all the tables (which you spent about 15 minutes on judging by time stamps of your posts), is the club taking out loans or the owners paying their personal money into the club (which would have FFP ramifications and which they've said all along they won't be doing anyway). Yes there was 34 million in loan repayment, the zero-interest loan from the owners which has been key to getting the club back to financial health. The owners don't collect a dividend from the club's profits/revenue.

      As he estimates in the closing posts, from the end of last season through the coming season, the club may be looking at a 100 million shortfall in revenue, due to (in order) losses in match day, commercial and broadcasting revenue. Obviously this number is uncertain because we don't know what the coming season will bring CoVid-wise. But that is the point, in terms of wanting the club to spend money. You can't just say in a vacuum that you want the club to spend more money.

      Other clubs, as the thread goes into, run on different business models, almost always involving a lot more debt. We don't do that, and especially given the world financial situation, that is a very good thing (not even getting into the on-field success it has helped this team achieved recently).


      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #63: Sep 07, 2020 09:50:31 pm
      Sure you would, but the financials, particularly looking ahead, do not support that. The alternative as explained in the thread with all the tables (which you spent about 15 minutes on judging by time stamps of your posts), is the club taking out loans or the owners paying their personal money into the club (which would have FFP ramifications and which they've said all along they won't be doing anyway). Yes there was 34 million in loan repayment, the zero-interest loan from the owners which has been key to getting the club back to financial health. The owners don't collect a dividend from the club's profits/revenue.

      As he estimates in the closing posts, from the end of last season through the coming season, the club may be looking at a 100 million shortfall in revenue, due to (in order) losses in match day, commercial and broadcasting revenue. Obviously this number is uncertain because we don't know what the coming season will bring CoVid-wise. But that is the point, in terms of wanting the club to spend money. You can't just say in a vacuum that you want the club to spend more money.

      Other clubs, as the thread goes into, run on different business models, almost always involving a lot more debt. We don't do that, and especially given the world financial situation, that is a very good thing (not even getting into the on-field success it has helped this team achieved recently).




      Not sure how slowly you read but I did actually read that thread in 15 mins, not quite sure why you are attacking me?
      And people call me a wum!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #64: Sep 07, 2020 09:58:58 pm
      Not sure how slowly you read but I did actually read that thread in 15 mins, not quite sure why you are attacking me?
      And people call me a wum!

      I'm not attacking you, not in any way.

      I read slowly enough to digest what I'm reading - for the sake of understanding what is being presented.

      The thread answers your repeated question "why aren't we spending more/why can't we buy player X?"
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #65: Sep 08, 2020 09:18:17 am
      I'm not attacking you, not in any way.

      I read slowly enough to digest what I'm reading - for the sake of understanding what is being presented.

      The thread answers your repeated question "why aren't we spending more/why can't we buy player X?"

      and I acknowledged that, we are simply not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 clubs, but we are improving every year. Also the fact that the owners decided to repay some of their loan out of the profits right before Covid hit fecked up our cash flow, as was my earlier assumption.

      All in all I'm ok with that but if I was the owner I'd be looking to take a small risk, take out a perfectly serviceable loan and get Thiago and Sarr signed up.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #66: Sep 08, 2020 10:20:00 am
      and I acknowledged that, we are simply not in as strong a financial position as the other top 6 clubs, but we are improving every year. Also the fact that the owners decided to repay some of their loan out of the profits right before Covid hit fecked up our cash flow, as was my earlier assumption.

      All in all I'm ok with that but if I was the owner I'd be looking to take a small risk, take out a perfectly serviceable loan and get Thiago and Sarr signed up.

      Yes you would.

      But wouldn't you also have sacked Klopp more than once, sold Salah, and bought Norwich's striker?  ;D
      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #67: Sep 08, 2020 10:31:59 am
      Yes you would.

      But wouldn't you also have sacked Klopp more than once, sold Salah, and bought Norwich's striker?  ;D

      hmm, is that a bit of wumming from you? I won't be challenged for King Wum!! ;-)
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #68: Sep 08, 2020 10:59:35 am
      hmm, is that a bit of wumming from you? I won't be challenged for King Wum!! ;-)

      No, I think you have advocated for all of those things (and much more) over the years.

      heimdall
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #69: Sep 08, 2020 12:02:50 pm
      No, I think you have advocated for all of those things (and much more) over the years.



      OK you clearly have some sort of issue with me pal and its getting a bit tiresome to be honest with you.

      Regarding Klopp I was unhappy with some of the things he did in his first few seasons but I'm not sure I ever consistently called for him to go, perhaps I did in an angry rant but I certainly don't hold that opinion now so what's the relevance of mentioning it?
      Regarding Mo, I still hold the view that if we could bring in a top class forward then I'd sell him, but it would have to be someone at the level of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Muller etc, ie top echelon.
      Regarding the Norwich striker Puki I think I mentioned signing him in relation to us not strengthening last summer, I thought he could have been a very good option for our squad, but his form went over a cliff so in hindsight probably not a big loss.

      Any other old topics you want to drag up in your attempt at wumming?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #70: Sep 08, 2020 01:14:40 pm
      OK you clearly have some sort of issue with me pal and its getting a bit tiresome to be honest with you.

      Regarding Klopp I was unhappy with some of the things he did in his first few seasons but I'm not sure I ever consistently called for him to go, perhaps I did in an angry rant but I certainly don't hold that opinion now so what's the relevance of mentioning it?
      Regarding Mo, I still hold the view that if we could bring in a top class forward then I'd sell him, but it would have to be someone at the level of Mbappe, Lewandowski, Muller etc, ie top echelon.
      Regarding the Norwich striker Puki I think I mentioned signing him in relation to us not strengthening last summer, I thought he could have been a very good option for our squad, but his form went over a cliff so in hindsight probably not a big loss.

      Any other old topics you want to drag up in your attempt at wumming?

      Wumming typically is advancing things that are not true in order to evoke an angry response. You've just owned up to each of the things I mentioned. Not wumming.

      I really don't have an issue with you other than that I disagree with almost everything you say. You argue with things I post, and fair enough, it's a discussion board. I don't mind. I reserve the right to debate topics and in this case, I appealed to the actual facts on our finances as to why we aren't making the purchases you want. You answered that if you were owner, you'd take out a loan to buy those players. I just mentioned that with the things you've advocated over the past few years, if you were the owner we wouldn't be in the same boat at this point. THAT is why I brought up past comments of yours. Words mean things.

      But it really is not personal. None of this is life and death stuff, at least not for me.

      If I met you in person I'd buy you a beer and we could talk about it all, or something else.
      Benladdie3000
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      Re: Georginio Wijnaldum (Barça)
      Reply #71: Sep 18, 2020 06:40:33 pm
      Ideally we keep him and have a midfield to go after all 4 comps

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