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      Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?

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      bazspeedman
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #23: Sep 17, 2020 05:41:12 pm
      The beauty of signing Thiago is unlike most Klopp signings he will need minimal time to adapt to our style of play due to his experience, game intelligence, and technical ability.
      bmck
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #24: Sep 17, 2020 06:52:38 pm
      Looks like Gini will be off to Barca then.  Shame really.

      Well would think of all the CMs, he's most likely to loose out on game time if Thiago comes.   Assuming Gini stays.
      billythered
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #25: Sep 17, 2020 06:52:39 pm
      As I said in the other thread I'd be willing to bet we never see a Fabinho, Keita,Thiago three in midfield.



      Iā€™m intrigued Si why you donā€™t think Weā€™ll see this trio, maybe Iā€™m missing something but I donā€™t see anything wrong with having Fabinho in front of the back 4, protecting with Thiago & Keita pushing forwards in attack,
      Could JĆ¼rgen be thinking exactly this when he said he would attack rather than defend our title ?

      Itā€™s possible he would only use this in certain games, perhaps with 20 to go and we need a break through?




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      bmck
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #26: Sep 17, 2020 06:53:57 pm
      maybe Iā€™m missing something but I donā€™t see anything wrong with having Fabinho in front of the back 4, protecting with Thiago & Keita pushing forwards in attack,

      Me neither. Thiago's also an unreal ball winner
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #27: Sep 17, 2020 07:06:35 pm
      Well would think of all the CMs, he's most likely to loose out on game time if Thiago comes.   Assuming Gini stays.

      I think Gini either goes to Barca this window or leaves on a free next Summer. Can't see us offering him a new contract now.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #28: Sep 17, 2020 07:18:13 pm
      I think Gini either goes to Barca this window or leaves on a free next Summer. Can't see us offering him a new contract now.

      It looks like it'll be Gini, agree, but someone HAS to go. There are just not enough positions for the amount of midfield players we have.

      You have Fab, Gini, Keita, Hendo and Thiago for only 3 spots, and that is before you get into the "2nd tier" players like Jones, Milner, Ox and Minamino (though he can play up front as well) and does not even take into consideration any game time you may want to give the "3rd tier" like Grujic and Wilson, assuming not sold.

      This year with compressed schedule we could theoretically get by with the large squad without pissing players off from lack of game time, but i definitely see a departure.
      srslfc
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #29: Sep 17, 2020 07:19:57 pm


      Iā€™m intrigued Si why you donā€™t think Weā€™ll see this trio, maybe Iā€™m missing something but I donā€™t see anything wrong with having Fabinho in front of the back 4, protecting with Thiago & Keita pushing forwards in attack,
      Could JĆ¼rgen be thinking exactly this when he said he would attack rather than defend our title ?

      Itā€™s possible he would only use this in certain games, perhaps with 20 to go and we need a break through?




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      Just a hunch mate. Obviously we may we'll see it but I just have a feeling we won't see all three together.

      Personally I'd love to see it but JĆ¼rgen tends to be a bit conservative in midfield at times and I think he could follow his usual pattern of keeping it solid with only one of Thiago or Keita.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #30: Sep 17, 2020 07:23:58 pm
      It looks like it'll be Gini, agree, but someone HAS to go. There are just not enough positions for the amount of midfield players we have.

      You have Fab, Gini, Keita, Hendo and Thiago for only 3 spots, and that is before you get into the "2nd tier" players like Jones, Milner, Ox and Minamino (though he can play up front as well) and does not even take into consideration any game time you may want to give the "3rd tier" like Grujic and Wilson, assuming not sold.

      This year with compressed schedule we could theoretically get by with the large squad without pissing players off from lack of game time, but i definitely see a departure.

      Apparently Klopp wants Gini to stay on an extended contract, which makes sense if it's a one or two year extension on his existing one, but I feel Gini will look for the move to Barca now where he will get a big contract and regular playing time.

      Hopefully I'm wrong and Gini stays on of course as this will give us potentially the strongest midfield depth in world football.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #31: Sep 17, 2020 07:35:36 pm
      It looks like it'll be Gini, agree, but someone HAS to go. 

      We'll keep Gini and sell Brewster to Sheff Utd with a buy-back clause included in the deal.
      billythered
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #32: Sep 17, 2020 07:42:07 pm
      Just a hunch mate. Obviously we may we'll see it but I just have a feeling we won't see all three together.

      Personally I'd love to see it but JĆ¼rgen tends to be a bit conservative in midfield at times and I think he could follow his usual pattern of keeping it solid with only one of Thiago or Keita.




      Fairy Muff mate, I donā€™t think weā€™ll see any massive change tbh, just more options to combat the bus Parkers, last season I thought we lacked a bit of creativity so maybe JĆ¼rgen wants to remedy that, but weā€™ll see, Brian 78 came up with a good shout saying Klopp will no longer have a best midfield three, I agree, so look out for plenty of rotation then.





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      rossyred
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #33: Sep 17, 2020 08:44:49 pm
      His passing between the lines quickly and accurately is something we do not have he will improve us no doubt and expect him to play most league games
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #34: Sep 17, 2020 09:02:29 pm


      The only way he "replaces" someone is if Wijnaldum leaves.

      Don't know, you know, Swab.

      Okay, so maybe not 'replace', but I've got a feeling that Milner could go. Just can't see where he gets many minutes and make no mistake how much of a thing Jones coming on over him, last week, may be.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #35: Sep 17, 2020 09:05:33 pm
      Thiago AlcĆ¢ntaraā€™s passing game offers Liverpool manager JĆ¼rgen Klopp an exciting new dimension


      Thiago, 29, after winning the Champions League with Bayern this year, believes the time has come for a fresh challenge

      MATTHIAS SCHRADER/AP

      Constantin Eckner

      Thursday September 17 2020, 5.00pm, The Times

      After what felt like a never-ending transfer story, Liverpool have agreed to sign Thiago AlcĆ¢ntara from Bayern Munich. Bayern officials were concerned that the Premier League champions would wait until the very end of the transfer window next month before making a late, low-value bid for the 29-year-old midfielder. Negotiations then accelerated this week when Bayern officials made it clear that they wanted a deal completed before the start of the Bundesliga season tomorrow.

      The Ā£25 million deal may come as a surprise to observers who would think that Thiago, the long-time linchpin of Bayernā€™s midfield, should have stayed with the German powerhouse after winning the Champions League. However, the Spaniard has felt underappreciated by his club for quite a while, never receiving the same recognition as home-grown talents and fan favourites.

      His contract with Bayern would have expired by the end of this 2020-21 season, as he abruptly ended negotiations about an extension in May because he was unhappy about his standing and wanted one last challenge in his career. Hansi Flick, the Bayern head coach, who truly acknowledged Thiagoā€™s qualities, tried to persuade him to stay with the club for a few more years, but Bayernā€™s Champions League win last month reinforced the sense that he had achieved everything in Munich.

      What convinced Thiago to join Liverpool was the fact that JĆ¼rgen Klopp has been a great admirer of the Spaniard and his playing style. Klopp knows that he does not have anyone who can match Thiagoā€™s playmaking abilities. Georginio Wijnaldum, Jordan Henderson and Naby KeĆÆta all have qualities but Thiago is on another level. ā€œYou need him because of his creativity and his passes between the lines,ā€ Arjen Robben, his former Bayern team-mate, once said

      Thiagoā€™s passing range is his biggest asset, especially against deep-lying defences. As someone who pulls the strings in midfield he works best alongside a physical player and his partnership with Joshua Kimmich was the foundation for Bayernā€™s success last season.

      Kimmich not only provided the necessary defensive protection but also engaged with Thiago in passing plays. Thiago is by no means a poor defender, as statistics have shown, but he usually defends smartly rather than overly physically. A midfield partner that can bring intensity and likes to assist Thiago helps the Spain international immensely.

      As Thiago was cast in the No 6 role at Bayern, it is conceivable that Klopp will adjust his tactical system to integrate his new signing in the best way possible. The German has already experimented with a 4-2-3-1 system, which would work perfectly with a Thiago-Fabinho pairing in centre midfield. The Brazilian would be the physical force while Thiago can focus on passes and dribbles.

      Klopp certainly values Thiago for his pressing resistance, meaning the ability to keep the ball under pressure and elegantly slide through tight spaces, which is crucial for a team such as Liverpool. They have struggled at times to build from the back because, other than Virgil van Dijk, no one has the skill set to protect the ball and progress it forward without the risk of losing possession.

      That inability partly led Klopp to focus on the wings, with the full backs, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Andrew Robertson, becoming increasingly important to Liverpoolā€™s attacking output.

      Thiago adds playmaking brilliance and tactical versatility. With him on the pitch, Liverpool will play differently. A luxury for Klopp is that he can still go back to the winning formula of last season. It would be foolish to think that Thiago will never need a rest as he has picked up a lot of injuries over the years and missed many matches.

      These injuries also contributed to the narrative that Thiago might be a great footballer but an unreliable one. In January, the highly regarded German football magazine Kicker put out a list of the best ā€œdefensive midfieldersā€ in the Bundesliga. The list featured the likes of Sebastian Rode, of Eintracht Frankfurt, and Union Berlinā€™s Robert Andrich but Thiago was nowhere to be found. He often exudes an ā€œI donā€™t careā€ vibe and shrugs off what could be considered insults.

      Thiago knows that most coaches love him because he embodies the kind of player that instinctively understands the game and orchestrates his team. Pep Guardiola famously told Bayernā€™s board in 2013, ā€œThiago or nothingā€, underlining his intentions to build the midfield around one of his favourite players. Last week, when Klopp was asked about Thiago, he said that he has often praised him as a world-class midfielder. Now, Klopp has the chance to work with this unique talent.


      Swab
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #36: Sep 17, 2020 09:47:30 pm
      Don't know, you know, Swab.

      Okay, so maybe not 'replace', but I've got a feeling that Milner could go. Just can't see where he gets many minutes and make no mistake how much of a thing Jones coming on over him, last week, may be.

      I was thinking more about this idea that people have that someone has to be "replaced" rather than us just having more options for rotation, as is the modern way.

      Millie's a strange one though; mostly a second string, backup, utility player now, still fit as a fiddle, but gradually getting less game time. He can still do a job for us, but Jones stepping up would fill that gap, if we can be said to have a gap in the midfield with the numbers we've got in there.
      Bringing in the new lad at LB could be another sign Milner is being phased out, as well.

      Thiago pretty much kills 3 birds with one stone; cover if Gini or Milner leave, cover at DM if Fabinho plays CB, and cover further up.
      Cover is probably the wrong word, but I'm sure you get my drift. Options would be better.
      Klopp does like players who can be used in different positions, which kind of goes against the current perceived wisdom in a period of positional specialists.

      We'll see, I guess, but the drop off in quality when Henderson, Gini or Fabinho didn't play last season was noticeable at time.
      So, let's say Thiago starts, with Henderson or Gini on the bench, he comes off after 60-70 mins, fresh legs, good players, more options.
      Same the other way round a well; tight game, Henderson, Gini wear the opposition down, Thiago comes on at 60, picks them apart.
      Lots of options.
      I like it.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #37: Sep 17, 2020 10:29:17 pm
      We've already got world class players in the midfield, saying that Thiago is the only world class player in there does them a real disservice.
      Rotation, options.

      Our midfield work incredibly hard, and we've seen the drop off at times, even over the last 2 seasons when we amassed so many points, when fatigue starts to affect them.

      The only way he "replaces" someone is if Wijnaldum leaves.

      Similarly, looking at his "highlight video" I see a player hitting passes in varying situations and each one reminded me of someone we already have, Keita with the through ball in the middle, Henderson or Fabinho playing a pass from deep to one of the forwards or outside backs, even Trent or Robbo playing a long, precise pass to switch the flanks. Great to have another good player but I don't think this is marking some sea change in what we do or how we do it.

      More a question of X amount of players dividing Y amount of minutes. It's finite.


      « Last Edit: Sep 17, 2020 10:44:09 pm by Robby The Z »
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #38: Sep 17, 2020 10:30:13 pm
      Millie's a strange one though; mostly a second string, backup, utility player now, still fit as a fiddle, but gradually getting less game time. He can still do a job for us, but Jones stepping up would fill that gap, if we can be said to have a gap in the midfield with the numbers we've got in there.
      Bringing in the new lad at LB could be another sign Milner is being phased out, as well.

      Think youā€™re right about him being phased out, though I donā€™t think itā€™s being done in such a way that Milly will get a bit fed up. Way I view him is despite him being near the end of his career now, heā€™s still a luxury player to have. We need someone to come in and secure things in the midfield and calm things down he can do that, we need him to fill in for a game but still be able to put in a good performance then he can do that. We need someone to come in at right back or left back because other options arenā€™t available then he can do that just as effectively. Not many teams have a player with the leadership, ability, experience and versatility to be able to do that to the extent Milly can at this stage of their careers. But given his age and other players being signed/emerging through the ranks, itā€™s only natural he will gradually be phased out. But what a player to still have for cup games, which in all likelihood will be where the majority of his game time will likely come from.
      rossyred
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #39: Sep 17, 2020 10:37:21 pm
      Similarly, looking at his "highlight video" I see a player hitting passes in varying situations and each one reminded me of someone we already have, Keita with the through ball in the middle, Henderson or Fabinho playing a pass from deep to one of the forwards or outside backs, even Trent or Robbo playing a long, precise pass to switch the flanks. Great to have another good player but I don't think this is marking some sea change in what we do or how we do it.

      Whats the point in signing another Midfielder who offers nothing different than what we have already got . Do you honestly think Klopp has signed because he offers the same ?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #40: Sep 17, 2020 10:48:09 pm
      Whats the point in signing another Midfielder who offers nothing different than what we have already got . Do you honestly think Klopp has signed because he offers the same ?

      Understand me. He's a tremendous talent. I get that. But a player can add value to a team without having some set of skills that nobody else in the team has. Some of the commentary (not saying you) reads like "now we've got a great midfielder compared to the bang average lot we had before."

      Also "NOW, we're going to really achieve something. As opposed to the last couple of seasons where we...."

      Don't forget the supposedly "non-creative" midfield of Milner, Henderson and Gini helped us soundly defeat a Bayern team with Thiago in the midfield, in Munich 18 months ago, to put us into the Champions League semifinal.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #41: Sep 17, 2020 10:52:49 pm
      Understand me. He's a tremendous talent. I get that. But a player can add value to a team without having some set of skills that nobody else in the team has. Some of the commentary (not saying you) reads like "now we've got a great midfielder compared to the bang average lot we had before."

      Also "NOW, we're going to really achieve something. As opposed to the last couple of seasons where we...."

      Don't forget the supposedly "non-creative" midfield of Milner, Henderson and Gini helped us soundly defeat a Bayern team with Thiago in the midfield, in Munich 18 months ago, to put us into the Champions League semifinal.

      Robby, why you trying to bring everyone down? Just enjoy it for F**k sake
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #42: Sep 17, 2020 11:00:57 pm
      Robby, why you trying to bring everyone down? Just enjoy it for f**k sake

      Honestly I'm not trying to do that.

      I guess what underlies all of this for me is I've just watched our team put in the best back-to-back performances in the history of the Premier League, just an astonishing rate of success, and the commentary from so many here is as if none of it happened. I'm still trying to enjoy THAT, but there's so much moaning about this, that and the other thing.

      But if that is the effect I'm having, I will bow out. My apologies.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #43: Sep 18, 2020 01:58:45 am
      I just watched that CL quarterfinal vs. Bayern Munich. The thing that really stands out about Thiago in that one is how cool he is on the ball. When we pressed he was the player who would show for the ball deep in his end, and even under pressure was very good at turning with it and finding an outlet. Just cool all around in possession. He almost always stayed deep, not as a windshield washer/destroyer, but more in keeping the ball moving, keeping possession, linking defence with attack. So in terms of role, for that game at least, I'd say he resembles Gini the most, which may or may not signal anything about future developments with our playing staff.

      Two other pleasant reminders from that game:

      1. What a strong performance by us. I think that one gets overshadowed a bit because of the other-worldly comeback vs. Barca in the next round, but we really grew into that match and at the end were playing a very good Bayern team off the park. Virgil, Robbo, Milner and Sadio were especially good - also Fabinho coming on for an injured Henderson.

      2. James Rodriguez is just about a donkey! He spent about 60 minutes giving the ball away nearly every time he touched the ball, until he was rightly subbed off. He should fit right in at Everton.  ;D

      rossyred
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #44: Sep 18, 2020 08:18:48 am
      Understand me. He's a tremendous talent. I get that. But a player can add value to a team without having some set of skills that nobody else in the team has. Some of the commentary (not saying you) reads like "now we've got a great midfielder compared to the bang average lot we had before."

      Also "NOW, we're going to really achieve something. As opposed to the last couple of seasons where we...."

      Don't forget the supposedly "non-creative" midfield of Milner, Henderson and Gini helped us soundly defeat a Bayern team with Thiago in the midfield, in Munich 18 months ago, to put us into the Champions League semifinal.

      No I am not saying anything of the sort or dissing any of the current midfield but clearly he has something different to his game that the others don't to complement their skill set that is all
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Thiago and our Tactics: How Does our new #6 fit in and affect the team?
      Reply #45: Sep 18, 2020 10:08:59 am
      I just watched that CL quarterfinal vs. Bayern Munich. The thing that really stands out about Thiago in that one is how cool he is on the ball. When we pressed he was the player who would show for the ball deep in his end, and even under pressure was very good at turning with it and finding an outlet. Just cool all around in possession. He almost always stayed deep, not as a windshield washer/destroyer, but more in keeping the ball moving, keeping possession, linking defence with attack. So in terms of role, for that game at least, I'd say he resembles Gini the most, which may or may not signal anything about future developments with our playing staff.

      Two other pleasant reminders from that game:

      1. What a strong performance by us. I think that one gets overshadowed a bit because of the other-worldly comeback vs. Barca in the next round, but we really grew into that match and at the end were playing a very good Bayern team off the park. Virgil, Robbo, Milner and Sadio were especially good - also Fabinho coming on for an injured Henderson.

      2. James Rodriguez is just about a donkey! He spent about 60 minutes giving the ball away nearly every time he touched the ball, until he was rightly subbed off. He should fit right in at Everton.  ;D

      People forget how good Milner was in the game, the organisation, the fitness, the pressing.

      Beautiful performance. Canā€™t wait to see stuff like that again

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