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      Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      tezmac
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #450: Sep 21, 2020 09:02:57 pm
      Thought we bossed the game, totally dominated Chelsea, great work rate, looking forward to the Arsenal game
      AussieRed
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #451: Sep 21, 2020 11:50:26 pm
      I thought it was a penalty, I also think Werner should have been booked for simulation.

      I'm confused mate?

      You think it WAS a pen but at the same time Werner should be booked for simulation? So it was or wasn't a pen in your eyes? For mine, no f**king way it was.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #452: Sep 22, 2020 12:38:07 am
      I'm confused mate?

      You think it WAS a pen but at the same time Werner should be booked for simulation? So it was or wasn't a pen in your eyes? For mine, no f**king way it was.

      I think he was caught, I think he made a meal of it. No doubt it was a penalty, in my eyes, but Werner play acted after it. Seem to remember another Chelsea player doing similar as well, around the half way line. You can be fouled and exaggerate contact, hence the booking and penalty award.

      It's like the Newcastle - Brighton game, after he tuned up the band and hit the Sweet Chin Music, he went down like he was fouled. It's further down my list of things needing fixing, way below timekeeping for example, but with VAR, a player that's fouled and exaggerates the contact should be booked.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #453: Sep 22, 2020 12:42:44 am
      I think he was caught, I think he made a meal of it. No doubt it was a penalty, in my eyes, but Werner play acted after it. Seem to remember another Chelsea player doing similar as well, around the half way line. You can be fouled and exaggerate contact, hence the booking and penalty award.

      It's like the Newcastle - Brighton game, after he tuned up the band and hit the Sweet Chin Music, he went down like he was fouled. It's further down my list of things needing fixing, way below timekeeping for example, but with VAR, a player that's fouled and exaggerates the contact should be booked.

      Ok now I understand what you mean, thanks mate.....I still don't think he touched him and if he did was the slightest of touches...Virg gets f**king dragged, pulled, blocked every time we have a corner and nothing...does my head in that sh*t.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #454: Sep 22, 2020 01:52:05 am
      Ok now I understand what you mean, thanks mate.....I still don't think he touched him and if he did was the slightest of touches...Virg gets f**king dragged, pulled, blocked every time we have a corner and nothing...does my head in that sh*t.

      I used to get sh*t when I used to say Skrtel was lucky as f**k not to concede more penalties, as he was always doing what the opposition now does to Virg.
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #455: Sep 22, 2020 09:48:32 am
      I used to get sh*t when I used to say Skrtel was lucky as f**k not to concede more penalties, as he was always doing what the opposition now does to Virg.

      but why is that allowed in the box, why is it ok to be dragging on a shirt for a corner but not in open play, start handing out some penalties and you'll cut that sh*t out immediately. I also think regarding penalties there has to be some more contact for a penalty to be awarded, these days the second you touch a player they fall down, its getting a bit silly, at least you should have to really push them or kick out their legs etc.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #456: Sep 22, 2020 09:50:10 am
      but why is that allowed in the box, why is it ok to be dragging on a shirt for a corner but not in open play, start handing out some penalties and you'll cut that sh*t out immediately. I also think regarding penalties there has to be some more contact for a penalty to be awarded, these days the second you touch a player they fall down, its getting a bit silly, at least you should have to really push them or kick out their legs etc.

      The pace in which some of these forwards move in the modern game it doesnt take much contact for them to lose balance
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #457: Sep 22, 2020 12:26:45 pm
      The pace in which some of these forwards move in the modern game it doesnt take much contact for them to lose balance

      Then they need to work on their balance, in the 70's/80's and earlier you had to really chop someone down for them to get a foul, now its the slightest touch, are you really telling me that modern footballers are that much quicker now, sorry but I just don't believe that.

      At the current rate it won't be long before football is a zero contact sport.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #458: Sep 22, 2020 12:28:57 pm
      Then they need to work on their balance, in the 70's/80's and earlier you had to really chop someone down for them to get a foul, now its the slightest touch, are you really telling me that modern footballers are that much quicker now, sorry but I just don't believe that.

      At the current rate it won't be long before football is a zero contact sport.

      I partially agree but Werner was probably slightly clipped and at the end of the day Thiago didn’t complain
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #459: Sep 22, 2020 12:32:16 pm
      I partially agree but Werner was probably slightly clipped and at the end of the day Thiago didn’t complain

      Yeah I've seen both Sadio and Mo come down in similar circumstances, but I feel that is as wrong, it needs to go back to being a bit more contact before a penalty is awarded otherwise its practically impossible to defend in the box.
      Scotia
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Sep 22, 2020 12:32:36 pm
      Then they need to work on their balance, in the 70's/80's and earlier you had to really chop someone down for them to get a foul, now its the slightest touch, are you really telling me that modern footballers are that much quicker now, sorry but I just don't believe that.

      At the current rate it won't be long before football is a zero contact sport.

      The game has changed fella. Genie is out the bottle and it's not going back.

      The need to protect creative / quick players from serious injury IS more important than allowing a good robust wake up foul in the first 10 mins.......or players going down too easily....

      I loved a good rattler back in the day but there'd be a leg break every other game now which is not palatable for anyone with the prizes / money involved......not to mention young men's (and women's) careers.
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Sep 22, 2020 02:31:37 pm
      The game has changed fella. Genie is out the bottle and it's not going back.

      The need to protect creative / quick players from serious injury IS more important than allowing a good robust wake up foul in the first 10 mins.......or players going down too easily....

      I loved a good rattler back in the day but there'd be a leg break every other game now which is not palatable for anyone with the prizes / money involved......not to mention young men's (and women's) careers.

      Hmm so why did they not have to protect players in the 70's or 80's or were there no good players back then.... cough cough Pele, George Best, Maradona, Daglish, Keegan etc etc etc etc etc.

      I'm not suggesting we go back to the Tommy Smith book of tackling but it really is getting very namby pamby these days with the slightest contact and the players throwing themselves to the ground rolling around in agony.

      I'm just saying it needs to be dialled back a bit, would make the game more entertaining and improve the flow.
      rossyred
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Sep 22, 2020 03:05:20 pm
      Ok now I understand what you mean, thanks mate.....I still don't think he touched him and if he did was the slightest of touches...Virg gets f**king dragged, pulled, blocked every time we have a corner and nothing...does my head in that sh*t.

      I think was slight contact but as some of the experts bang on about just because there is contact doesn't necessarily mean a pen. Surely they should look at intent and it didn't look to me that he intended anything apart from getting out of the way
      Benladdie3000
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Sep 22, 2020 04:16:17 pm
      Stan fabinho looked an absolute machine at centre defence. Couple times Werner got 1 on 1 with him fabinho got his foot in or his body across. That's not easy as has been proven all over the bundesliga and with german national team. Fabinho is an absolute baller. Quality player.
      Scotia
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Sep 22, 2020 07:58:17 pm
      Hmm so why did they not have to protect players in the 70's or 80's or were there no good players back then.... cough cough Pele, George Best, Maradona, Daglish, Keegan etc etc etc etc etc.

      I'm not suggesting we go back to the Tommy Smith book of tackling but it really is getting very namby pamby these days with the slightest contact and the players throwing themselves to the ground rolling around in agony.

      I'm just saying it needs to be dialled back a bit, would make the game more entertaining and improve the flow.

      Different levels of athleticism,  pace etc.

      Of course there were skilful players but the game was very different and with the investment and money involved the players who put bums on seats and sell jerseys are protected at all costs.

      One such cost is the loss of a good challenge from the game.
      Ju
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Sep 23, 2020 12:57:29 am
      As soon as Werner cut in  he was going doing down. Young lad whatever, no bollucks wimp.
      Ju
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Sep 23, 2020 01:10:39 am
      Great result and the high line worked well, albeit Fabhino came to the rescue a couple of times. High Line with perpose and authority, reward .
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Sep 23, 2020 01:33:39 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Sep 23, 2020 02:07:30 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.

      Watching the end of the City-Wolves game the other night I noticed something related to this, Podence gets tapped in the chest and goes down like a ton of bricks. Now, his team are down a goal with a few minutes left but he's out rolling around, no foul has been given, and instead of getting up and trying to score a goal, his team have to wait while he goes through his dramatics as time ticks off the clock.

      I'm all for skill being rewarded, but the play-acting just does my head in.
      LiverpoolReds90
      • Forum Michael Robinson
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Sep 23, 2020 02:18:03 am
      great game firmino looked good and Mane was amazing with the brace.. kepa sucking like usual ;D his price tag is funny
      Scotia
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Sep 23, 2020 08:56:14 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.

      Watching the end of the City-Wolves game the other night I noticed something related to this, Podence gets tapped in the chest and goes down like a ton of bricks. Now, his team are down a goal with a few minutes left but he's out rolling around, no foul has been given, and instead of getting up and trying to score a goal, his team have to wait while he goes through his dramatics as time ticks off the clock.

      I'm all for skill being rewarded, but the play-acting just does my head in.


      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #471: Sep 23, 2020 10:41:57 am
      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......

      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #472: Sep 23, 2020 10:48:41 am
      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......

      That's where I am at,  not saying I like it

      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.

      I'm not 100% with that, again in principle but what I'm not sure about with using var is that you can slow things down, look at it from three or more angles and you can get that to fit whatever narrative is in your mind
      Not deliberately but subconsciously

      Var for me takes out the context of the situation in some of these cases
      heimdall
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #473: Sep 23, 2020 10:53:01 am
      That's where I am at,  not saying I like it

      I'm not 100% with that, again in principle but what I'm not sure about with using var is that you can slow things down, look at it from three or more angles and you can get that to fit whatever narrative is in your mind
      Not deliberately but subconsciously

      Var for me takes out the context of the situation in some of these cases

      Some truth to that in terms of spotting a foul ie a hand ball looks much deliberate if you slow it down rather than real time, but what I'm talking about is cutting out play acting and real time or slow motion you can tell if a player was really caught or not, you just know. BTW to solve the issue of slow down bias you just need to  replay the incident in real time several times as well.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #474: Sep 23, 2020 11:04:30 am
      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.

      The amount you would have to fine today's player to affect his behavior, the players association would never allow, and just the precedent for saying "you're faking it" would be very difficult in today's subjective world (and Podence who I mentioned from the other day would be a pretty flagrant example, touched on the chest and holding his face, etc.).

      I think it was David James who used to ask ahead of time, how much he would be fined for missing training so he could do a photo shoot somewhere, and then just write the check out on the spot.

      Not sure if this is on video somewhere,but I think in Jürgen's first season there was a game where Joao Teixera, went down like this. It might have been an actual foul I don't recall, but he stayed down and was being so melodramatic with it. The camera was on Jürgen and he could plainly be seen and heard, saying, "Joao.....Get Up!"  :)

      THAT is how it would be stopped, when the teams, coaches and players themselves said "No more." But you will find very few managers with that kind of ethic, so I suppose as Scotia and Kopite78 say, we're stuck with it.

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