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      Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Benladdie3000
      • Forum Gary McAllister
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      • 92 posts | 19 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Sep 22, 2020 04:16:17 pm
      Stan fabinho looked an absolute machine at centre defence. Couple times Werner got 1 on 1 with him fabinho got his foot in or his body across. That's not easy as has been proven all over the bundesliga and with german national team. Fabinho is an absolute baller. Quality player.
      Scotia
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Sep 22, 2020 07:58:17 pm
      Hmm so why did they not have to protect players in the 70's or 80's or were there no good players back then.... cough cough Pele, George Best, Maradona, Daglish, Keegan etc etc etc etc etc.

      I'm not suggesting we go back to the Tommy Smith book of tackling but it really is getting very namby pamby these days with the slightest contact and the players throwing themselves to the ground rolling around in agony.

      I'm just saying it needs to be dialled back a bit, would make the game more entertaining and improve the flow.

      Different levels of athleticism,  pace etc.

      Of course there were skilful players but the game was very different and with the investment and money involved the players who put bums on seats and sell jerseys are protected at all costs.

      One such cost is the loss of a good challenge from the game.
      Ju
      • Forum David Johnson
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      • 220 posts |
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Sep 23, 2020 12:57:29 am
      As soon as Werner cut in  he was going doing down. Young lad whatever, no bollucks wimp.
      Ju
      • Forum David Johnson
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      • 220 posts |
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Sep 23, 2020 01:10:39 am
      Great result and the high line worked well, albeit Fabhino came to the rescue a couple of times. High Line with perpose and authority, reward .
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,950 posts | 1920 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Sep 23, 2020 01:33:39 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.
      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 8,591 posts | 2518 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Sep 23, 2020 02:07:30 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.

      Watching the end of the City-Wolves game the other night I noticed something related to this, Podence gets tapped in the chest and goes down like a ton of bricks. Now, his team are down a goal with a few minutes left but he's out rolling around, no foul has been given, and instead of getting up and trying to score a goal, his team have to wait while he goes through his dramatics as time ticks off the clock.

      I'm all for skill being rewarded, but the play-acting just does my head in.
      LiverpoolReds90
      • Forum Igor Biscan
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      • 122 posts | 11 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Sep 23, 2020 02:18:03 am
      great game firmino looked good and Mane was amazing with the brace.. kepa sucking like usual ;D his price tag is funny
      Scotia
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Sep 23, 2020 08:56:14 am
      Just reading through the last few posts here and I’ve got to agree with heimdall.

      Yes the pace of the game is much quicker now which we all know but the facilities are also much better too. The pitches in the premierleague are in immaculate condition making it much safer for players. You’re also taught from an early age that backing out of a tackle is far more likely to cause serious injury than going in to a challenge fully committed. The point being, if a player looks to avoid a challenge because he thinks he will win a foul or the opposition player will receive a card of some kind, they're more likely to end up injured with that mentality.

      In the modern game, it was a penalty. Those incidents really boil my piss (even when we get them) because football is literally no longer a contact sport now and as Heim says, it’s becoming impossible to defend.

      The question that commentators often use ‘was there contact?’ needs kicking out of the game. There is nothing wrong with there being any contact, it’s supposed to be a contact sport. It needs replacing with ‘was there enough force for the attacker to go down’. And then there’s a complete different debate but it will benefit the game more.

      It frustrates me how soft top level football is now. You only have to drop a division or two to see the difference.

      Watching the end of the City-Wolves game the other night I noticed something related to this, Podence gets tapped in the chest and goes down like a ton of bricks. Now, his team are down a goal with a few minutes left but he's out rolling around, no foul has been given, and instead of getting up and trying to score a goal, his team have to wait while he goes through his dramatics as time ticks off the clock.

      I'm all for skill being rewarded, but the play-acting just does my head in.


      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Sep 23, 2020 10:41:57 am
      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......

      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.
      Kopite78
      • Guest
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Sep 23, 2020 10:48:41 am
      I dont disagree with either of you in principle.......my view is just that it's a conscious thing and it isn't gonna go back (at least at that level).

      Agree much more to be done re play-acting but it is difficult to differentiate between some where there is contact at pace.......

      That's where I am at,  not saying I like it

      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.

      I'm not 100% with that, again in principle but what I'm not sure about with using var is that you can slow things down, look at it from three or more angles and you can get that to fit whatever narrative is in your mind
      Not deliberately but subconsciously

      Var for me takes out the context of the situation in some of these cases
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Sep 23, 2020 10:53:01 am
      That's where I am at,  not saying I like it

      I'm not 100% with that, again in principle but what I'm not sure about with using var is that you can slow things down, look at it from three or more angles and you can get that to fit whatever narrative is in your mind
      Not deliberately but subconsciously

      Var for me takes out the context of the situation in some of these cases

      Some truth to that in terms of spotting a foul ie a hand ball looks much deliberate if you slow it down rather than real time, but what I'm talking about is cutting out play acting and real time or slow motion you can tell if a player was really caught or not, you just know. BTW to solve the issue of slow down bias you just need to  replay the incident in real time several times as well.
      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 8,591 posts | 2518 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #471: Sep 23, 2020 11:04:30 am
      With VAR it should be easy to spot play acting, hand out restrospective fines to the players after a match if necessary and you'd cut it out over night.

      The amount you would have to fine today's player to affect his behavior, the players association would never allow, and just the precedent for saying "you're faking it" would be very difficult in today's subjective world (and Podence who I mentioned from the other day would be a pretty flagrant example, touched on the chest and holding his face, etc.).

      I think it was David James who used to ask ahead of time, how much he would be fined for missing training so he could do a photo shoot somewhere, and then just write the check out on the spot.

      Not sure if this is on video somewhere,but I think in Jürgen's first season there was a game where Joao Teixera, went down like this. It might have been an actual foul I don't recall, but he stayed down and was being so melodramatic with it. The camera was on Jürgen and he could plainly be seen and heard, saying, "Joao.....Get Up!"  :)

      THAT is how it would be stopped, when the teams, coaches and players themselves said "No more." But you will find very few managers with that kind of ethic, so I suppose as Scotia and Kopite78 say, we're stuck with it.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #472: Sep 23, 2020 01:09:22 pm
      The amount you would have to fine today's player to affect his behavior, the players association would never allow, and just the precedent for saying "you're faking it" would be very difficult in today's subjective world (and Podence who I mentioned from the other day would be a pretty flagrant example, touched on the chest and holding his face, etc.).

      I think it was David James who used to ask ahead of time, how much he would be fined for missing training so he could do a photo shoot somewhere, and then just write the check out on the spot.

      Not sure if this is on video somewhere,but I think in Jürgen's first season there was a game where Joao Teixera, went down like this. It might have been an actual foul I don't recall, but he stayed down and was being so melodramatic with it. The camera was on Jürgen and he could plainly be seen and heard, saying, "Joao.....Get Up!"  :)

      THAT is how it would be stopped, when the teams, coaches and players themselves said "No more." But you will find very few managers with that kind of ethic, so I suppose as Scotia and Kopite78 say, we're stuck with it.


      Perhaps a retrospective yellow card then in addition to fine, they add up. BTW to get round the subjective tag you have a panel of experts reviewing the footage and the offence would have to be obvious
      ruthcity
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      • 6,161 posts | 1284 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #473: Sep 23, 2020 02:16:08 pm
      CT_LFC
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 6,198 posts | 1267 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #474: Sep 23, 2020 02:17:00 pm
      Nope, it's #5, whoever that is
      ConzS
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 3,745 posts | 846 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #475: Sep 23, 2020 02:22:23 pm
      Whoever it is, they’re going to have some sore ankles.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 7,242 posts | 1293 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #476: Sep 23, 2020 02:31:05 pm
      Jorginho
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #477: Sep 23, 2020 04:39:26 pm

      Bad day for him all around. :-)
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #478: Sep 23, 2020 06:07:24 pm

      Remember the histrionics, the wailing and gnashing of teeth when we didn't sign him?

      Seems Klopp knew best after all.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #479: Sep 24, 2020 06:07:00 pm
      Quote from Kopite78
      That's where I am at,  not saying I like it

      I'm not 100% with that, again in principle but what I'm not sure about with using var is that you can slow things down, look at it from three or more angles and you can get that to fit whatever narrative is in your mind
      Not deliberately but subconsciously

      Var for me takes out the context of the situation in some of these cases

      A VAR only has to confirm whether it's a penalty or not. A yellow can only be given by the referee if the VAR believes there has been no contact, therefore no penalty.

      When Mo Salah won similar penalties before, we all rushed to defend him as we should. If you get a penalty, then you can react any way you want as it makes no sense to be given a penalty and booked (again) for it.

      I personally can't see any contact to justify the decision (I thought there was more contact for the penalty at Napoli last year, and there wasn't a lot in that either) In any case, the penalty was saved anyway, so we can forget about it and move on.

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