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      What should Liverpool want re The EFL?

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      Robby The Z
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      What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Oct 01, 2020 01:22:07 pm
      Hopefully some of you are willing to engage in discussion here. I've been reading a good bit about just how dire the financial situation is for so many of the English Football League clubs right now. Depending on what develops over the course of this season with CoVid and its impact on the economy (and live events), many of these clubs are perilously close to failing permanently.

      So what can be done? I'd like to see the biggest clubs so what they can, but I don't think just handing out money (as if) is really the answer. I know these clubs will need to maintain their identity in the community, but perhaps an arrangement can be made that benefits both those clubs and the biggest EPL perennnials - something to do with a player development arrangement perhaps where the bigger clubs assume the costs of part of those teams' payrolls.

      Questions:

      1. Do you agree that a lot of clubs are in danger of going under over the next year?

      2. What should a big club like Liverpool try to do about it (if anything)?

      adammac
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #1: Oct 01, 2020 01:32:00 pm
      I wouldn't be surprised if the Premiership suggested their u23 sides playing in the EFL in return for whatever money they plan on loaning (low to no interest) them to keep afloat during Covid times.

      CT_LFC
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #2: Oct 01, 2020 01:34:07 pm
      The clubs should well, the PL should help and the govt should help. No one wins if EFL clubs disappear.
      JD
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #3: Oct 05, 2020 01:27:29 pm
      Not entirely sure this is an issue for the Premier League clubs to solve.  Yes they earn hundreds of millions, but by that very nature they also contribute hugely in tax, VAT etc etc.  If there is a problem with the tax system then that is up to the government to solve.

      There are some Championship clubs who have probably been out spending decent sums on players so the intricacies in deciding who needs help must be far too complicated.

      Lower league clubs are ultimately in the same position as other businesses.  Some of them have set up TV packages for fans to pay for games. If they are viable in the long term then they should have access to cheap loans as all other businesses that can be repaid over a long period.  If a lower league club's finances are in such a perilous state that they can't repay a loan covering 1 year of expenses over the next 10-15 years then they were probably in trouble long before this pandemic.
      FL Red
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #4: Oct 05, 2020 02:13:22 pm
      It's not up to the Premier League clubs to bail out the lower leagues. The reason there are no fans is because the government won't allow them back. The big clubs (and many of the smaller and even championship ones) invested a lot of money to put things in place that would allow fans safely back in and now the government is saying that they aren't allowed.

      I'm not typically for government intervention in the free market, but government intervention is partially causing this issue so they should be the ones on the hook to help out, not the Premier League clubs.


      HUYTON RED
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #5: Oct 05, 2020 06:13:50 pm
      It's not up to the Premier League clubs to bail out the lower leagues. The reason there are no fans is because the government won't allow them back. The big clubs (and many of the smaller and even championship ones) invested a lot of money to put things in place that would allow fans safely back in and now the government is saying that they aren't allowed.

      I'm not typically for government intervention in the free market, but government intervention is partially causing this issue so they should be the ones on the hook to help out, not the Premier League clubs.




      Would be f**king nice if due to the amount of money swirling round the Premier League they helped out grassroots football and lower league teams.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #6: Oct 05, 2020 06:53:04 pm
      Would be f**king nice if due to the amount of money swirling round the Premier League they helped out grassroots football and lower league teams.

      Sure, but it would make a bigger difference if they figured out a way to leverage their assistance to build the future. If each club just gives X amount of money, we'll probably be in the same boat in another year.

      But set up some kind of loan program whereby bigger clubs are covering some of the lower league wage bills on an ongoing basis, that would make sense for both sides.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #7: Oct 05, 2020 08:00:56 pm
      The premier league have a duty of care and good will to help out however they can, rumours of conditions such as a strict salary cap and no relegation in case of the season being abandoned are utterly pathetic. This not our problem attitude sums up modern football and life in general
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #8: Oct 06, 2020 03:26:47 am
      The premier league have a duty of care and good will to help out however they can, rumours of conditions such as a strict salary cap and no relegation in case of the season being abandoned are utterly pathetic. This not our problem attitude sums up modern football and life in general

      With the pandemic going on, I agree. The FA and the government have to intervene and help any lower league clubs who may be struggling because they rely on gates etc.

      But in general, I disagree and it’s one of my main annoyances in football that. Really winds me up when a club goes bust and everybody says ‘why didn’t Liverpool or Man U help them out, they’ve got loads of money’. Yeah, I fell sorry for the innocent fans but it’s not on us (or anybody else) to save f**king Bury.

      The problem you have is, once you help a club out, then their knobhead owners will continue to run their clubs poorly knowing full well when it all goes tits up somebody will come along and bail them out.

      And it’s the same in life in general actually.
      FL Red
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #9: Oct 06, 2020 01:04:53 pm
      Liverpool don’t have loads of money, how the hell are they supposed to bail out a championship club? That’s just stupid.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #10: Oct 06, 2020 01:57:28 pm
      Liverpool don’t have loads of money, how the hell are they supposed to bail out a championship club? That’s just stupid.

      i don't think there are many clubs who have a lot of money these days but the bigger clubs should be able to put some money in the collection basket to help out the lower league clubs. The majority of the aid should come from the league and govt, however.
      Shabs
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #11: Oct 06, 2020 05:03:28 pm
      I didn’t see many clubs step up when we were on the brink..

      If your running a insolvent business then you shouldn’t be in business & expect the top clubs bailing you out..

      It’s like asking Blue chip companies to bail out the independents..
      CT_LFC
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #12: Oct 06, 2020 05:12:48 pm
      I didn’t see many clubs step up when we were on the brink..

      If your running a insolvent business then you shouldn’t be in business & expect the top clubs bailing you out..

      It’s like asking Blue chip companies to bail out the independents..

      I don't think you would have liked anyone bailing us out and kept H&G, but this is different. This is because govt shutdown mandate, not because teams are necessarily poorly run, even if i'm sure there are some that are. I imagine attendance plus concessions revenue are a much bigger piece of the revenue pie than with PL teams.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #13: Oct 06, 2020 05:40:51 pm
      Liverpool don’t have loads of money, how the hell are they supposed to bail out a championship club? That’s just stupid.

      It's not about physically giving clubs the money themselves but agreeing that money comes out of the central pot
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #14: Oct 06, 2020 05:43:18 pm
      I didn’t see many clubs step up when we were on the brink..

      If your running a insolvent business then you shouldn’t be in business & expect the top clubs bailing you out..

      It’s like asking Blue chip companies to bail out the independents..

      If you are running a solvent business and your main source income is taken away through no fault of your own then it isn't wrong to look for help.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #15: Oct 06, 2020 05:51:04 pm
      Liverpool don’t have loads of money, how the hell are they supposed to bail out a championship club? That’s just stupid.

      Why just Liverpool, why not the Premier League as a whole?  Plenty of f**king money still being spent this transfer window that shows up the PL clubs crying about money as absolute bollocks.

      As fatkopite put it, we have a duty of care to help out other lower clubs with financial assistance.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #16: Oct 06, 2020 05:53:22 pm
      I didn’t see many clubs step up when we were on the brink..

      If your running a insolvent business then you shouldn’t be in business & expect the top clubs bailing you out..

      It’s like asking Blue chip companies to bail out the independents..

      You forgotten Shankly's socialism already?
      Benito
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #17: Oct 06, 2020 06:15:41 pm
      They should put a levy on footballer salaries during the pandemic to support the grassroots game and lower leagues. If you making over 50k a week, you have enough to manage your way though a pinch spanning 6 - 12 months.
      FL Red
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #18: Oct 06, 2020 06:26:53 pm
      They should put a levy on footballer salaries during the pandemic to support the grassroots game and lower leagues. If you making over 50k a week, you have enough to manage your way though a pinch spanning 6 - 12 months.

      I believe some clubs did ask players to take a pay cut to support the other staff. Tottenham comes to mind.
      David Wright
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #19: Oct 06, 2020 07:42:40 pm
      Great shame to see a team like Macclesfield fold up, I remember them in the old Cheshire league against my home town Rhyl, who themselves have struggled to survive It is finding the right solution to the problem.
      brezipool
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #20: Oct 07, 2020 10:50:42 am
      FA, EPL & UKGUV should all be helping the lower league clubs right now.
      UncleBob
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #21: Oct 08, 2020 12:45:37 am
      How about the fans of these clubs turn up to their stadium each Saturday and simply post the cost of a ticket in a letterbox?
      Like a charity. Just for a while. That would be proper supporting your club.

      A lot of these clubs barely break even so perhaps we should let nature take its course and cull the teams that barely survive. Communities will carry on. Other businesses will thrive. It’s the nature of the beast.

      HUYTON RED
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #22: Oct 08, 2020 08:30:27 am
      How about the fans of these clubs turn up to their stadium each Saturday and simply post the cost of a ticket in a letterbox?
      Like a charity. Just for a while. That would be proper supporting your club.

      A lot of these clubs barely break even so perhaps we should let nature take its course and cull the teams that barely survive. Communities will carry on. Other businesses will thrive. It’s the nature of the beast.



      Sounds like something from the tory handbook!!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #23: Oct 08, 2020 07:46:25 pm
      Sounds like something from the tory handbook!!

       :)

      Could be a both/and situation. Charities can receive support from both public AND private sectors.

      I'm starting to wonder how many professional footballers might be out of work over the next 12 months.
      UncleBob
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #24: Oct 08, 2020 09:44:13 pm
      Sounds like something from the tory handbook!!

      Maybe... but clubs need the money and the fans have that money spare so just post it to the club. When things go back to normal the club can make a gesture like ‘name a seat’ after the real supporters who really saves the club.
      Instead of ‘Row A seat 164’ it can be ‘Row A seat Garner’
      Robby The Z
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      Project Big Picture. What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #25: Oct 11, 2020 07:20:18 pm
      https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/11/project-big-picture-premier-league-and-efl-plan-radical-reform-to-avoid-crisis

      Project Big Picture. Apparently we are one of the major architects and it does include some substantial financial assistance for EFL clubs, but also some structural changes including reducing the Premier League to 18 clubs, establishing a playoff as part of promotion/relegation, scrapping the League Cup and Community Shield, and expanding the loan program (a step toward what I mentioned about farming more players out - but not so far as establishing lower league feeder clubs a la Germany).

      Not surprisingly the initial response is negative, but there's a lot of money in this for the EFL. This will get hashed out, but it should be clear to the EFL now that they need to do something creative, and just waiting for the big clubs to drop money on them isn't much of a strategy.
      Redrew
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #26: Oct 11, 2020 09:32:04 pm
      Wanting out of two cups.
      Desiring 4 less PL matches each year

      Hmmmmm

      Wonder how LFC and the other big boys would fill these empty slots?

      Voila

      The necessary groundwork is well underway to establish a super-league and cash super-checks.
      chats
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #27: Oct 11, 2020 09:35:00 pm
      Slippery slope when you move away from the ‘one club one vote’ way of doing things.
      king kenny
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #28: Oct 11, 2020 10:46:05 pm
      I don't think it is a bad idea to bin the league cup.  They won't accommodate the best teams anyways especially if you win the champions league.  I think it may be an idea to exempt the clubs in Europe from it.  Reducing the teams in the league is a tricky one.  Because for the last few years our league campaigns have finished 3 weeks before the Champions League final that is unacceptable for me if we really expect our teams to be in the final.   Like Jürgen has said the clubs have to represented in these things especially fixtures.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #29: Oct 11, 2020 10:59:05 pm
      Said in the other thread this move could be seen as a power grab at a time when the game is in a vulnerable position. If the big clubs had tried this in normal times it would have been seen as a 100% power grab. They have softened this with the promise of a financial package for the lower leagues.

      https://www.premierleague.com/news/1860125

      Not to happy about it. Rick Parry, chair of the EFL, said it's in footballs best interest. Parry who was once our CEO and was also CEO of the Premier League. They're not happy with him either.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #30: Oct 11, 2020 11:08:30 pm
      I don't think it is a bad idea to bin the league cup.  They won't accommodate the best teams anyways especially if you win the champions league.  I think it may be an idea to exempt the clubs in Europe from it.  Reducing the teams in the league is a tricky one.  Because for the last few years our league campaigns have finished 3 weeks before the Champions League final that is unacceptable for me if we really expect our teams to be in the final.   Like Jürgen has said the clubs have to represented in these things especially fixtures.

      Just be the Prem won't play the league cup. The reduction to 18 clubs will enable the big clubs throughout Europe to expand the Champions league and rake in huge TV audiences. The timing of this is a bit cynical but they must've been discussing and planning this move for some time. £250m package, if it's an even split...£13m a season. Not a huge price to pay for a power grab is it.
      king kenny
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #31: Oct 11, 2020 11:26:37 pm
      They are expanding the world club championship too.  But if it doesn't reward successful teams then there is no gain.   There is an expansion in CL that like you said has been discussed.   There is an increase in fixxtures on the horizon so trim a little domestically could well be a good thing.  But if we finish the season more than 2 weeks before the champions league final then it won't benefit us winning the thing in fact I think it should be 1 week before the final but 2 at the most.  But feel as if they are working closely with national team interest.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #32: Oct 12, 2020 12:37:26 am
      Really don't see how this can be implemented with the current pl voting set up
      Robby The Z
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #33: Oct 12, 2020 02:46:59 am
      The expansion of the world and European competitions is happening anyway, as is the gravitating of more money to the biggest clubs. That is just reality.

      This plan provides an ongoing mechanism to keep the Football League economically viable as that happens.

      But those revenues are being driven by certain clubs, and those aren't Crystal Palace and Fulham, they just aren't. So consolidating the controlling interest in those leading clubs fits in with the rest of it. In fact, if one club one vote is retained, they'll never agree to anything that looks past helping themselves.

      FL Red
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #34: Oct 12, 2020 01:51:28 pm
      Not sure how this proposal would ever get approved as you are basically asking a bunch of clubs to give up power and trust you with it.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #35: Oct 12, 2020 07:49:17 pm
      Really don't see how this can be implemented with the current pl voting set up

      ££££££££££££££££

      Robby The Z
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #36: Oct 13, 2020 05:28:43 am

      So they need 14 Premier League votes to make changes. The plan forms a 9-team group to make major decisions and have veto power under the new setup.(2/3 vote). I can see a group of 5 clubs being approached and promised an amendment to include them more in the decision-making apparatus. Newcastle, Villa, Leicester and a couple of others.

      Sounds like there is a meeting this week.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #37: Oct 13, 2020 08:47:18 pm
      Piss poor effort from the club for me.
      Dragonmark
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #38: Oct 15, 2020 03:01:38 am
      The premier league have a duty of care and good will to help out however they can, rumours of conditions such as a strict salary cap and no relegation in case of the season being abandoned are utterly pathetic. This not our problem attitude sums up modern football and life in general

      I think it's more the duty of the FA and the government to prevent owners with very questionable funds from easily obtaining ownership of these smaller clubs. There needs to be better regulation on club ownership and its literally killing smaller clubs. Heck, this almost happened to Leeds. Liverpool can toss all the money at the Bury's of the world but until corrupt owners are required to prove their financial stability prior to owning clubs, they will continue to need support from everyone. Its the FA's job, and they failed miserably.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: What should Liverpool want re The EFL?
      Reply #39: Oct 15, 2020 11:33:52 am
      I think it's more the duty of the FA and the government to prevent owners with very questionable funds from easily obtaining ownership of these smaller clubs. There needs to be better regulation on club ownership and its literally killing smaller clubs. Heck, this almost happened to Leeds. Liverpool can toss all the money at the Bury's of the world but until corrupt owners are required to prove their financial stability prior to owning clubs, they will continue to need support from everyone. Its the FA's job, and they failed miserably.

      The power and money is now the premier league, agree fit and proper tests should be tougher but again it's not really in the fa remit now

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