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      Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League

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      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #25: Oct 13, 2020 04:28:12 pm
      How far do the open pockets go?

      LFC could surely have a more modest training ground and help another (lower team) build up their own modest training ground? Should Man United help pay for a stadium expansion for Norwich?

      How about transfers, maybe they should be subsidized as well?


      ruthcity
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #26: Oct 13, 2020 05:56:05 pm
      Apart from Anfield, isn’t the next best live match experience over here? I’ve always enjoyed everybody’s live match company. ;D
      chats
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #27: Oct 13, 2020 08:14:08 pm
      No surprise that our owners are the ones driving this forward.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #28: Oct 13, 2020 08:51:43 pm
      Basically the root of the opposition to these ideas from the English footballing world (which has done Jack Squat to address a  very real crisis in their game) comes down to "Right. Just give us your money."
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #29: Oct 13, 2020 08:54:48 pm
      The RedBall move might signal more of a move toward an enhanced or infused Champions League, including weekend fixtures the way UEFA have been angling.

      Over these past few days by the way, the other Big Six owners (especially Man United's) are being total cowards.

      Where there is no vision, the people perish.
      Benito
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #30: Oct 13, 2020 11:02:08 pm
      First, this stinks of capitalist America, and looking at the over sponsored and advertising ridden leagues on the other side of the pond is not an approach the most followed league in the world should be looking to replicate.
      Secondly there are some very good proposals in here, and I don’t think they needs to be interdependent on other recommendations. Each club in the EPL should get a vote, with no weighting’s being applied, no brainer.  There should be a longer preseason, allowing bigger clubs to generate more revenue with their own tv rights/custom friendly tournaments/tours etc. Club level broadcast rights is a huge can of worms.
      The big non talking point in this whole proposal is reducing the fixture list sold as to benefit the national team, but opening the way forward for a European super league which has been a pipe dream for so many years. Obviously this would then detract from EPL revenues which are now so kindly being distributed with lower league clubs.
      There needs to be a big shake up to maintain the pyramid and I’m glad that at least some proposals are being floated for consideration, but this full recommendation is not the right path and a kick in the teeth to clubs on the brink of holding out over the course of this season without ticket revenue.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #31: Oct 14, 2020 12:18:35 am
      Not liking our name associated with this at all.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #32: Oct 14, 2020 03:12:08 pm
      Not liking our name associated with this at all.

      Worse it's not an association more like our brainchild.
      Brian78
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #33: Oct 14, 2020 03:20:21 pm
      Am I missing some info?

      . EFL to get massive payout, saving some clubs

      . Prem league reduced to 18 teams to ease fixture congestion

      . League cup scrapped

      . Less voting righrs for clubs with less time in prem league then others

      On 1st point, surely that cant be a bad thing?

      Point 2 not a bsd thing. Clubs like west ham wont go for it through fear of being the ones to lose out on being in the league

      Point 3 I dont mind the league cup and its a good way to get game time for developing players or fringe players.

      Point 4...why should yo yo clubs like Fulham and West Brom for example have the same say as other clubs in the affairs of the league, they likely wont be there next year, replaced by Norwich, wholl come up have an equal say then be gone rellaced by west brom or Fulham and so on

      Whats the real negative to this that im obviously missing? Is it a tv deal issue?
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #34: Oct 14, 2020 03:28:04 pm
      First, this stinks of capitalist America, and looking at the over sponsored and advertising ridden leagues on the other side of the pond is not an approach the most followed league in the world should be looking to replicate.
      Secondly there are some very good proposals in here, and I don’t think they needs to be interdependent on other recommendations. Each club in the EPL should get a vote, with no weighting’s being applied, no brainer.  There should be a longer preseason, allowing bigger clubs to generate more revenue with their own tv rights/custom friendly tournaments/tours etc. Club level broadcast rights is a huge can of worms.
      The big non talking point in this whole proposal is reducing the fixture list sold as to benefit the national team, but opening the way forward for a European super league which has been a pipe dream for so many years. Obviously this would then detract from EPL revenues which are now so kindly being distributed with lower league clubs.
      There needs to be a big shake up to maintain the pyramid and I’m glad that at least some proposals are being floated for consideration, but this full recommendation is not the right path and a kick in the teeth to clubs on the brink of holding out over the course of this season without ticket revenue.

      The money for the lower leagues will obviously be a lifeline. Some may call it a bribe. Think the big 6 having a controlling vote will be an issue. The Premier League must've known about this. They should've made more of an effort to put in place a package for the lower leagues. They have allowed the big 6 to steal a march on the issue.

      At least the big 6 have revealed their hand. But where does that leave Div 1 & Div 2. Some are on the brink. The big 6 have their price...and the price is control.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #35: Oct 14, 2020 03:36:38 pm
      Am I missing some info?

      . EFL to get massive payout, saving some clubs

      . Prem league reduced to 18 teams to ease fixture congestion

      . League cup scrapped

      . Less voting righrs for clubs with less time in prem league then others

      On 1st point, surely that cant be a bad thing?

      Point 2 not a bsd thing. Clubs like west ham wont go for it through fear of being the ones to lose out on being in the league

      Point 3 I dont mind the league cup and its a good way to get game time for developing players or fringe players.

      Point 4...why should yo yo clubs like Fulham and West Brom for example have the same say as other clubs in the affairs of the league, they likely wont be there next year, replaced by Norwich, wholl come up have an equal say then be gone rellaced by west brom or Fulham and so on

      Whats the real negative to this that im obviously missing? Is it a tv deal issue?

      The issue is control. They want to buy Football. They are prepared to share some of the spoils but they want full control.  Football is about to be privatised much more than ever. This is a dangerous move.

      Who knows what FSG or the Glaziers really think about football. Have you seen anything on line or anywhere else about their full proposal or their intentions. Their PR is crap.The fans should be having a say in this but the Big 6 haven't even bothered to consult fans..far as I know anyway.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #36: Oct 14, 2020 03:58:27 pm
      Quote from Harrisimo
      Put their hat in the ring for sure. The stumbling block will be the top 6 effectively having full control. They will obviously manipulate the market to screw as much revenue as possible out of it. TV revenue will be of vital importance. Pay per view as well.

      The £14.95 pay per view was the Premier leagues idea, not Sky's. So clearly that was testing the waters. Wasn't well recieved but again that was price conditioning. e.g. ask for £50 then let them have it for £29.95...think their getting a good deal.

      They will tinker with the control aspect untill it's acceptable to the likes of West Ham. If it doesn't happen it still strengthens their hand with regard to future deals.

      Bound to happen, Yanks will push for more control, milk the game..."Lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas"

      From a LFC pov, there are a lot of positive developments in the proposals. Scrapping a competition and pre season game that nobody wants, a windfall for the lower league clubs who need it, the opportunity for this club to sell our own TV rights of unfashionable games that suit us, fewer league games needed to win a league, and an easier vote process for clubs like us to push through changes that work best for us, rather than other clubs. So as a club, we stand to gain a lot if the proposals go through. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, so I don't think they will go through without tweaks to bits and pieces. But change shouldn't be automatically resisted, just because it's change. When you hear lower league clubs saying they're just weeks away from liquidation, they now have a choice. Accept the package on offer and stay afloat, or be left to sink or swim.
      billythered
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #37: Oct 14, 2020 04:10:20 pm
      The real issues I see are that the money men including our owners are driving another nail into the coffin of football fans nationwide,  they don't understand football's origin as a working class sport for working class people,  they are not interested that your great grandpa lifted you over the turnstiles back in the day no matter which club you support,

      Money is what the want and they don't give a flying f**k who falls by the wayside as long as they make their profits,
      At the end of the day the most important assets are the fans, if fans don't go to any given ground, or don't pay any particular subscription fee the money men are fu**ed,

      All football club's fans both from the EFL & EPL should band together and demand what we want, at the moment the tail is wagging the dog,

      The money men want total control as far as I can tell, and again that includes our Avaricious lot, who it has to be said are going against the very fabric of what our club is about,  now there are some good points raised in their plan but like what most are alluding to, it's a total power grab, and that just isn't right.


                                              YNWA
      Shabs
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #38: Oct 14, 2020 04:40:58 pm
      Unadulterated greed.Nothing more to add & it’s a shame our owners are part of the leading pack.
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #39: Oct 14, 2020 04:46:36 pm
      Liverpool and Manchester United have been forced into an embarrassing climbdown over their push to reform English football after a tense meeting of the Premier League’s 20 clubs on Wednesday.

      Together with the EFL chairman, Rick Parry, Liverpool and United have pushed Project Big Picture – a plan that proposed a £250m bailout for the EFL and a more equitable share of the game’s broadcast money in exchange for the Premier League’s big six clubs being granted overwhelming voting control on a number of important points.
      David Bernstein to call for independent regulation in fight over football's future
      Read more

      The idea has divided the top division, with the 14 other clubs believed to be strongly against the change in governance – with the league and the Football Association sharing their view. At Wednesday’s virtual conference call, the Premier League chairman, Gary Hoffman, called for unity after an unedifying week and the Everton chief executive, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, demanded an apology from Liverpool and United, who were represented by Tom Werner and Ed Woodward, club chairman and executive vice-chairman, respectively.

      Werner and Woodward refused, feeling that they had nothing to apologise for. They claimed to have merely been discussing a list of ideas, to have been brainstorming some forward-planning, and it was unfortunate that they had leaked into the public domain. This led to incredulity in some quarters.

      The major conclusion of the get-together, which had been convened at short notice, was that the 20 clubs unanimously agreed to work together on a strategic reform programme for the game and, significantly, not to endorse Project Big Picture. In other words, Liverpool and United had to give their blessing to work as a part of the existing collective and to say that PBP was not something that could be construed as coming from the league or its clubs.

      The clubs also agreed to offer the EFL a bailout but on far less generous terms than the £250m being sought. A combined £50m will be offered to League One and Two clubs, with almost two-thirds of that for teams in League One, and Championship clubs will be offered access to loans.

      “All 20 Premier League clubs today unanimously agreed that Project Big Picture will not be endorsed or pursued by the Premier League, or the FA,” the league said in a statement.

      “Further, Premier League shareholders agreed to work together as a 20-club collective on a strategic plan for the future structures and financing of English football, consulting with all stakeholders to ensure a vibrant, competitive and sustainable football pyramid.”

      Good.   Glad the other 14 clubs stood up to them.  Embarrassing episode of greed.

      And glad to see money going down to League One and League Two and, quite rightly in my view, loans for Championship clubs - just like a lot of businesses up and down the country have had to take loans.

      Think that's a sensible outcome all around
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #40: Oct 14, 2020 06:15:18 pm
      Am I missing some info?

      . EFL to get massive payout, saving some clubs

      . Prem league reduced to 18 teams to ease fixture congestion

      . League cup scrapped

      . Less voting righrs for clubs with less time in prem league then others

      On 1st point, surely that cant be a bad thing?

      Point 2 not a bsd thing. Clubs like west ham wont go for it through fear of being the ones to lose out on being in the league

      Point 3 I dont mind the league cup and its a good way to get game time for developing players or fringe players.

      Point 4...why should yo yo clubs like Fulham and West Brom for example have the same say as other clubs in the affairs of the league, they likely wont be there next year, replaced by Norwich, wholl come up have an equal say then be gone rellaced by west brom or Fulham and so on

      Whats the real negative to this that im obviously missing? Is it a tv deal issue?

      No it's our club being greedy f**king cu*ts.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #41: Oct 14, 2020 07:35:52 pm
      We must be the only club where a plan to send 25 percent of our future broadcast revenue to lower league clubs, and advance 250 million to offset recent and ongoing losses to the same group of clubs, is categorized as "greedy." Then when instead its agreed to extend just 1/5 of that to the same clubs, that is a good thing.

      The 20 "pound" cap on away ticketing and subsidizing of away fan travel: Greedy.

      Maintaining keeping the money in the hands of the same 20-30 clubs, going forward, sound. No real plan to help the overwhelming majority of football  plans in the nation, fine with us.

      But if player X isn't bought, or match Y isn't won, there will be hell to pay. An outrage.

      It's the very definition of wanting to have one's cake and eat it too.

      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #42: Oct 14, 2020 10:01:13 pm
      All very embarrassing really. Fenway or whatever they are called now have pretty much always managed to do the opposite of capture the public mood.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #43: Oct 14, 2020 11:17:21 pm
      Been nipped in the Bud. Very happy with that outcome, now let's forget about it and move on to winning Back to Back!
      Dragonmark
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #44: Oct 14, 2020 11:54:24 pm
      From a LFC pov, there are a lot of positive developments in the proposals. Scrapping a competition and pre season game that nobody wants, a windfall for the lower league clubs who need it, the opportunity for this club to sell our own TV rights of unfashionable games that suit us, fewer league games needed to win a league, and an easier vote process for clubs like us to push through changes that work best for us, rather than other clubs. So as a club, we stand to gain a lot if the proposals go through. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, so I don't think they will go through without tweaks to bits and pieces. But change shouldn't be automatically resisted, just because it's change. When you hear lower league clubs saying they're just weeks away from liquidation, they now have a choice. Accept the package on offer and stay afloat, or be left to sink or swim.

      Thats where I'm at with this. The voting thing I'm not a fan of but everything else I like.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #45: Oct 15, 2020 12:28:51 am
      Good way for our owners to put an even bigger target on our backs. We’re one of the most hated teams outside of our fan base  this will only magnify that.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #46: Oct 15, 2020 02:14:38 pm
      Good way for our owners to put an even bigger target on our backs. We’re one of the most hated teams outside of our fan base  this will only magnify that.

      Who cares?
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #47: Oct 15, 2020 02:16:52 pm
      Been nipped in the Bud. Very happy with that outcome, now let's forget about it and move on to winning Back to Back!

      This issue isn't going away. The lower leagues need bailed out and the Premier League isn't going to just give them a bunch of money with no changes or compromises. Something is going to (and needs to) happen. We might as well look out for our interests as a club.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #48: Oct 15, 2020 02:27:58 pm
      This issue isn't going away. The lower leagues need bailed out and the Premier League isn't going to just give them a bunch of money with no changes or compromises. Something is going to (and needs to) happen. We might as well look out for our interests as a club.

      It was nothing short of opportunism
      Poorly timed and a flawed and poor idea

      Dont think the "help" towards the EFL was anything other than  a PR attempt because they have literally zero sway in what happens in the PL. It was nothing more than hope that the EFL would praise the idea and get the public onside pressuring the rest of the PL

      The idea goes against our fundamental ideas of socialism as a city and a club so personally I'm glad it fell on its face

      If you want to help the EFL tgen help them but dont dress up the tokanism of help to simply get what you want
      Whether the PL should help the EFL is a completely different thing but this wasnt help, this was an idea cooked up over the last few years and the owners have used this time to try to get it through
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Liverpool and United plan shake up of Premier League
      Reply #49: Oct 15, 2020 02:35:44 pm
      This and the whole furlough sh*te have deeply embarrassed us as a club and a city. FSG have been here ten years yet it’s evident they don’t know much about Liverpool do they.

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