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      VAR has to go

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      sore monad
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      VAR has to go
      Oct 17, 2020 02:35:05 pm
      Anybody left in football who still disagrees with this? Not only is it spoiling the flow of the game, but the decision making is actually worse than it would be without it. Today was beyond a joke.
      RomaN
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #1: Oct 17, 2020 02:42:58 pm
      Offside ruling was a joke. Pointless having it with Pickford still being on the pitch.

      Properly. F**ked. Off.
      Fabio Aurelio
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #2: Oct 17, 2020 02:45:18 pm
      It’s been far from perfect. I still like the idea of it; the implementation has just been poor. We did get screwed today but in general I support VAR.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #3: Oct 17, 2020 02:45:39 pm
      It’s gotten to the stage that even when it happens to our rivals it pisses me off because it’s robbed all joy from the game.

      VAR needs an independent team to run it who HAVE to explain their decisions after a game.
      chats
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #4: Oct 17, 2020 02:48:20 pm
      VAR would have been fine if it actually worked as advertised - for clear and obvious errors. It should only be used to correct big errors like a clear missed red card or a clear offside.

      All these breaking down offsides to armpits and leg hair and looking at handballs 50 times at super slow motion is just wrong. It's not what VAR was brought it in to fix.

      We're stuck with it now though unless clubs can come together and demand change.
      red trooper
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #5: Oct 17, 2020 02:49:23 pm
      Don't think there was anyone watching including Everton fans thought that was offside ! Why was VAR used for this ? It wasn't a hard call to make for the referee surely ....complete farce
      Shabs
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #6: Oct 17, 2020 02:53:59 pm
      System itself is right, it’s the morons working that are the problem.. I know we have had VAR decisions go our way last season but to take that away from Mane & leave Pickford on leaves VAR operators to deserved criticism..
      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #7: Oct 17, 2020 03:27:31 pm
      Never wanted it from the start. Once a goal has been given that should be it, nobody should have the right to take that joy away from a supporter

      But of course it adds extra "drama" for the neutral watching on TV
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #8: Oct 17, 2020 03:31:34 pm
      Only people in favour of VAR still are none match goers. The ones who want perfection and moan when they can see the replays when the officials make a mistake. They’re the ones who helped campaign for it.

      The match goer never wanted it. Human error is part of the game, if anything it makes it more exciting and in general the decisions balance themselves out, some you get some you don't. Var has always been a shambles but even more so when you’re at the ground. It’s a f**king joke.

      Imagine being in that away end then and that moment is taken away from you all because manes fingernail was offside. It’s pathetic.
      JD
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #9: Oct 17, 2020 03:40:48 pm
      Anybody left in football who still disagrees with this? Not only is it spoiling the flow of the game, but the decision making is actually worse than it would be without it. Today was beyond a joke.

      I don't agree they need to get rid of VAR.

      They need to change the offside rule.  That's a fundamental problem.

      If they need to get measuring lines out to that degree then it's not offside.  An attacker should have one of his feet fully offside - not the hairs on a shoulder or an arse cheek.  That's simple to sort out.

      And as for the Pickford foul.  The VAR official should have said to the ref 'That looks like a meaty challenge.  Do you want to go and have a look at that on the monitor.'  He was just incompetent, or worse.

      It's the offside rule that is fu**ed and today, the VAR official fu**ed us over by seemingly ignoring a blatant red card offence.  Double whammy.

      VAR would have been fine if it actually worked as advertised - for clear and obvious errors. It should only be used to correct big errors like a clear missed red card or a clear offside.

      All these breaking down offsides to armpits and leg hair and looking at handballs 50 times at super slow motion is just wrong. It's not what VAR was brought it in to fix.

      This.
      leosc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #10: Oct 17, 2020 03:41:35 pm
      The biggest problem with VAR is that even with it they are getting the calls wrong, if they were getting them right at least you could say "yeah it was close but they got it right", so why have it?

      It disrupts the game and we're still seeing major mistakes week after week. At least before you put the blame on human error but now,? It's just corruption when with all the tools they still get the calls wrong.

      What is their excuse for today?
      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #11: Oct 17, 2020 04:47:06 pm
      Only people in favour of VAR still are none match goers. The ones who want perfection and moan when they can see the replays when the officials make a mistake. They’re the ones who helped campaign for it.

      The match goer never wanted it. Human error is part of the game, if anything it makes it more exciting and in general the decisions balance themselves out, some you get some you don't. Var has always been a shambles but even more so when you’re at the ground. It’s a f**king joke.

      Imagine being in that away end then and that moment is taken away from you all because manes fingernail was offside. It’s pathetic.

      That's it. Sick of hearing the blame being passed to the refs in the bunkers. You could have the best referees on the planet manning it and it would still take a lot of the natural joy out of football, its sh*te
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #12: Oct 17, 2020 05:04:27 pm
      What’s the point in having linesman now then? Because whatever decision they make gets looked at anyway.

      What’s the point in even having a ref? Why don’t the VAR dickheads blow a whistle on the tannoy when they want to stop the game? Because any decision the referee makes gets looked at too.

      The whole thing is on its arse. Never liked it and it’s ruined the game. F**k it off and give the referee the option to check a monitor for certain things - like a dangerous tackle and he doesn’t know what card to produce.
      tezmac
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #13: Oct 17, 2020 05:14:34 pm
      Awfull decision making unless the is a brown everlope passed some where
      Davbro
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #14: Oct 17, 2020 08:40:26 pm
      Personally I believe it's how it is being implemented. For example I think if they are going to use fine margins for offside it should only be the players foot.  Also a bit of common sense. One that wasnt even my team but enraged me was Spurs vs Norwich last season when var ruled a goal offside on the heel of a player coming back, which gave no advantage whatsoever. It should be supporters of football making these decisions and not beurocratic suits.
      king kenny
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #15: Oct 17, 2020 08:45:06 pm
      Personally I believe it's how it is being implemented. For example I think if they are going to use fine margins for offside it should only be the players foot.  Also a bit of common sense. One that wasnt even my team but enraged me was Spurs vs Norwich last season when var ruled a goal offside on the heel of a player coming back, which gave no advantage whatsoever. It should be supporters of football making these decisions and not beurocratic suits.

      That probably one of the biggest problem with our officials and VAR.  Common f**king sense! They are brainless.
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #16: Oct 17, 2020 09:05:13 pm
      System itself is right, it’s the morons working that are the problem.. I know we have had VAR decisions go our way last season but to take that away from Mane & leave Pickford on leaves VAR operators to deserved criticism..

      100%.

      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #17: Oct 17, 2020 09:09:01 pm
      The problem is I could have been the var and manipulated the lines so that Mane was onside and nobody would bat an eyelid. Equally the bloke who did do it could have done the opposite. Those are man made lines paused at a point when he wanted to pause it.

      Offsides cant be 100% accurate so they should stop mictoanalysing it to that degree. Be no complaints from any body if those were given as goals and same goes if they scored in that way too.

      All very silly.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #18: Oct 17, 2020 09:16:01 pm
      It should be the same as with rugby with the VAR team consulting with the ref, both watching the replay on screen, the ref giving his opinion on the action to take and the VAR team giving the final decision.

      It's really not that complicated if they use some common f**king sense with this.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #19: Oct 17, 2020 09:57:08 pm
      It should be the same as with rugby with the VAR team consulting with the ref, both watching the replay on screen, the ref giving his opinion on the action to take and the VAR team giving the final decision.

      It's really not that complicated if they use some common f**king sense with this.

      Rugby system is very transparent. The referees in English football are the total opposite. Everything is done in the shadows.
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #20: Oct 17, 2020 10:03:54 pm
      Rugby system is very transparent. The referees in English football are the total opposite. Everything is done in the shadows.


      Yep.

      The officials in football are like a little club that looks after themselves and none of them want to over rule the other.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #21: Oct 17, 2020 10:10:35 pm
      For a start, Var's not going, accept that.

      Var needs to change, it needs refining no doubt but don't for one second think or waste time thinking about it going, it's entrenched worldwide, it's going nowhere.
      stuey
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #22: Oct 17, 2020 10:24:14 pm
      For a start, Var's not going, accept that.

      Var needs to change, it needs refining no doubt but don't for one second think or waste time thinking about it going, it's entrenched worldwide, it's going nowhere.

      No matter how bolloxed this decision is we have benefited from VAR previously. As you say mate it's here to stay.
      For this to happen in a derby is a real sickener and emotions are increased to explosive levels.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #23: Oct 17, 2020 10:57:03 pm
      Only people in favour of VAR still are none match goers. The ones who want perfection and moan when they can see the replays when the officials make a mistake. They’re the ones who helped campaign for it.

      The match goer never wanted it. Human error is part of the game, if anything it makes it more exciting and in general the decisions balance themselves out, some you get some you don't. Var has always been a shambles but even more so when you’re at the ground. It’s a f**king joke.

      Imagine being in that away end then and that moment is taken away from you all because manes fingernail was offside. It’s pathetic.

      What utter sh*t.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #24: Oct 17, 2020 11:08:57 pm

      Ah, here we have fatkopite, presumably a non match goer who was previously in favour of VAR but now looks like a tit because it’s a load of sh*t.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #25: Oct 17, 2020 11:16:17 pm
      Ah, here we have fatkopite, presumably a non match goer who was previously in favour of VAR but now looks like a tit because it’s a load of sh*t.

      I am and still am in favour of var, sat at games and with the modern world of technology you can see in seconds that a decision that has happened in front of you was wrong. It isn't acceptable with such technology at your fingertips that it isn't used, whether you are watching at home or in the ground it doesn't matter. The problem is especially in this country the officials aren't fit to do their job, whether it's through incompetence or a desire to get rid of it.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #26: Oct 17, 2020 11:30:45 pm
      I am and still am in favour of var, sat at games and with the modern world of technology you can see in seconds that a decision that has happened in front of you was wrong. It isn't acceptable with such technology at your fingertips that it isn't used, whether you are watching at home or in the ground it doesn't matter. The problem is especially in this country the officials aren't fit to do their job, whether it's through incompetence or a desire to get rid of it.

      Disagree.

      People go the match and watch a game of football. They go the pub afterwards and part of the post match debate is the referee performance. ‘F**k me the ref was sh*te today’ or even the ref had a good game.  It’s been that way for 200 years.

      Meanwhile the fan sitting at home watches on sky. The referee has made a huge blunder and those fans can see the replay. They kick off and moan all over social media. ‘The officials in this country are shocking, something needs to be done about it’ and so on and so on. When the reality is, the officials were always fairly god damn decent. Yes they made mistakes from time to time but in general they got most things right.

      Var was brought in after huge campaigns for it - But it should never have been brought into the game. Football is the best sport in the world for many reasons but the controversy, the pace of the game, human error are all reasons why.

      Since VAR has been in the game, I don’t know one match goer who’s in favour of it. It’s f**king terrible. You hear the moans around the ground even before the decision has been made by var and that’s before we know whether it will go in our favour or not!

      It’s sh*te and needs binning. Ruined the f**king game that was perfectly fine how it was.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #27: Oct 17, 2020 11:38:06 pm
      Disagree.

      People go the match and watch a game of football. They go the pub afterwards and part of the post match debate is the referee performance. ‘F**k me the ref was sh*te today’ or even the ref had a good game.  It’s been that way for 200 years.

      Meanwhile the fan sitting at home watches on sky. The referee has made a huge blunder and those fans can see the replay. They kick off and moan all over social media. ‘The officials in this country are shocking, something needs to be done about it’ and so on and so on. When the reality is, the officials were always fairly god damn decent. Yes they made mistakes from time to time but in general they got most things right.

      Var was brought in after huge campaigns for it - But it should never have been brought into the game. Football is the best sport in the world for many reasons but the controversy, the pace of the game, human error are all reasons why.

      Since VAR has been in the game, I don’t know one match goer who’s in favour of it. It’s f**king terrible. You hear the moans around the ground even before the decision has been made by var and that’s before we know whether it will go in our favour or not!

      It’s sh*te and needs binning. Ruined the f**king game that was perfectly fine how it was.

      I have heard and seen people at games watching replays of incidents and bemoaning the fact they can see something was wrong
      bazspeedman
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #28: Oct 17, 2020 11:44:08 pm
      Disagree.

      People go the match and watch a game of football. They go the pub afterwards and part of the post match debate is the referee performance. ‘F**k me the ref was sh*te today’ or even the ref had a good game.  It’s been that way for 200 years.

      Meanwhile the fan sitting at home watches on sky. The referee has made a huge blunder and those fans can see the replay. They kick off and moan all over social media. ‘The officials in this country are shocking, something needs to be done about it’ and so on and so on. When the reality is, the officials were always fairly god damn decent. Yes they made mistakes from time to time but in general they got most things right.

      Var was brought in after huge campaigns for it - But it should never have been brought into the game. Football is the best sport in the world for many reasons but the controversy, the pace of the game, human error are all reasons why.

      Since VAR has been in the game, I don’t know one match goer who’s in favour of it. It’s f**king terrible. You hear the moans around the ground even before the decision has been made by var and that’s before we know whether it will go in our favour or not!

      It’s sh*te and needs binning. Ruined the f**king game that was perfectly fine how it was.

      VAR is a necessity now as the game is getting increasingly quicker and officials can no longer be relied on to get enough decisions correct due to human error which is unavoidable.

      The fact is that with the use of VAR two human errors were made today which absolutely should not happen when the technology is available to always get the decision correct.

      The issue is not the VAR system it is unqualified humans operating it.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #29: Oct 17, 2020 11:50:01 pm
      VAR is a necessity now as the game is getting increasingly quicker and officials can no longer be relied on to get enough decisions correct due to human error which is unavoidable.

      The fact is that with the use of VAR two human errors were made today which absolutely should not happen when the technology is available to always get the decision correct.

      The issue is not the VAR system it is unqualified humans operating it.

      Yes and as I said they could not possible make an accurate call within the time frame they had so it had to be a guess or a decision born out of prejudice. They should've allowed the goal to stand as it was impossible to decide if Mane was NOT level with the defender.

      If it was a horse race it would be called a dead heat.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #30: Oct 17, 2020 11:52:33 pm
      Maybe after closer images are available they can say Mane was off by a tiny fraction but that is irrelevant as they decide with what images they have at the time, not what can be developed at a later time.

      VAR is still good for the game but they have to refine it.If it can't be proved if a player is off then the benefit must go to the attacking player. They have in effect torn up the offside rule in that...if your level your onside. That's part of the offside rule has been discarded.
      « Last Edit: Oct 18, 2020 12:02:55 am by Harrisimo »
      bazspeedman
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #31: Oct 17, 2020 11:53:01 pm
      Yes and as I said they could not possible make an accurate call within the time frame they had so it had to be a guess or a decision born out of prejudice. They should've allowed the goal to stand as it was impossible to decide if Mane was NOT level with the defender.

      If it was a horse race it would be called a dead heat.

      Exactly. If in doubt as it's too close to call the benefit should always go to the attacking team and goal stand.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #32: Oct 18, 2020 03:06:56 am
      VAR is a necessity now as the game is getting increasingly quicker and officials can no longer be relied on to get enough decisions correct due to human error which is unavoidable.

      The fact is that with the use of VAR two human errors were made today which absolutely should not happen when the technology is available to always get the decision correct.

      The issue is not the VAR system it is unqualified humans operating it.

      I see people say this all the time but I disagree, again.

      The issue IS var. All this drawing lines along a strikers nose to see if it’s past a defenders heel and then asking somebody in a room to make a decision is just nonsense.

      The standard of officiating has also dropped immensely because the referees, linesmen and fourth officials all hide behind var now and let the technology make the decision.

      Today was a perfect example. First of all, VVD would never have been given offside and secondly, I’m 99.9% certain that had VAR not been in the game then the referee or linesman would have sent Pickford off for that today, but instead they hid behind the technology and passed the book to somebody else.

      The referees in the modern game aren’t like what they were 40 years ago. They all have to pass pretty tough fitness tests to prove they can keep up with the game.

      I think a referee and two linesmen will perfectly suffice but if we’re moving with the times and technology has to come into the game then fine, but it should be the referee having the option to see a pitch side monitor and nothing else.

      There should be ONE referee. ONE person who makes the decisions. So var bloody IS the problem. It’s destroyed the game look how sh*te it is now.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #33: Oct 18, 2020 06:25:04 am
      I see people say this all the time but I disagree, again.

      The issue IS var. All this drawing lines along a strikers nose to see if it’s past a defenders heel and then asking somebody in a room to make a decision is just nonsense.

      The standard of officiating has also dropped immensely because the referees, linesmen and fourth officials all hide behind var now and let the technology make the decision.

      Today was a perfect example. First of all, VVD would never have been given offside and secondly, I’m 99.9% certain that had VAR not been in the game then the referee or linesman would have sent Pickford off for that today, but instead they hid behind the technology and passed the book to somebody else.

      The referees in the modern game aren’t like what they were 40 years ago. They all have to pass pretty tough fitness tests to prove they can keep up with the game.

      I think a referee and two linesmen will perfectly suffice but if we’re moving with the times and technology has to come into the game then fine, but it should be the referee having the option to see a pitch side monitor and nothing else.

      There should be ONE referee. ONE person who makes the decisions. So var bloody IS the problem. It’s destroyed the game look how sh*te it is now.

      Not for binning it but you are spot on that it changes how referees do their job. One example is this business of linesmen not raising the flag when everybody and their brother can see if it is offside, all because their might need to be a review.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #34: Oct 18, 2020 10:39:30 am
      We benefited from it against Leeds, we were screwed by it yesterday. Common theme with it this season is that it's been wrong most if the time.
      I thought last season was about bedding it in, but its actually getting worse!
      Needs binned right away.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #35: Oct 18, 2020 01:12:03 pm
      David Coote was on VAR duty for the game. He has made a mess of things a few times. From Nottingham.

      All these refs have to give info regarding their upbringing, who they grew up supporting etc. when they are appointed. It's known that yesterday's ref Michael Oliver is a Newcastle fan. Coote's team preference is unknown according to the Echo's survey.

      I'd like to think Coote made genuine errors.
      Swab
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #36: Oct 18, 2020 02:19:21 pm
      VAR is not the problem.

      The way the Premier League use it is the problem.
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #37: Oct 18, 2020 02:59:21 pm
      Disagree.

      People go the match and watch a game of football. They go the pub afterwards and part of the post match debate is the referee performance. ‘F**k me the ref was sh*te today’ or even the ref had a good game.  It’s been that way for 200 years.

      Meanwhile the fan sitting at home watches on sky. The referee has made a huge blunder and those fans can see the replay. They kick off and moan all over social media. ‘The officials in this country are shocking, something needs to be done about it’ and so on and so on. When the reality is, the officials were always fairly god damn decent. Yes they made mistakes from time to time but in general they got most things right.

      Var was brought in after huge campaigns for it - But it should never have been brought into the game. Football is the best sport in the world for many reasons but the controversy, the pace of the game, human error are all reasons why.

      Since VAR has been in the game, I don’t know one match goer who’s in favour of it. It’s f**king terrible. You hear the moans around the ground even before the decision has been made by var and that’s before we know whether it will go in our favour or not!

      It’s sh*te and needs binning. Ruined the f**king game that was perfectly fine how it was.




      I think VAR is needed in the modern game but only if it is used properly,  at the moment it clearly isn't because the game is being run by those who have absolutely no experience of actually playing the game,  to them its all rules & regulations and no common sense whatsoever,
      The system itself is ok, not much different from other sports,  rugby union a perfect example,  they use a TMO, and is linked to the ref & assistants,
      How they work it is perfect, and come to the fairest decision every time, incidents/close calls/ foul play are shown on the huge screens so fans know immediately what is happening,  then between the refs and the TMO decide what the fairest course of action is,  it takes no more than a couple of minutes, and they move on, it's so simple,  so why the f**k is that not possible in football,  it is, but the powers at be want total control and are hell bent in doing it their way and f***in it up as usual,
      Those f***in idiots at Stockley park have never kicked a ball in anger, they are clueless to what actually happens on a football pitch,  put a ex professional footballer and a ex referee in there as advisors at the very least, imo we don't need the clueless Stockley park Tossers, just follow the example of Rugby , simples !!




                                                YNWA
      bmck
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #38: Oct 18, 2020 03:11:25 pm
      VAR is only as good as the people using it and interpreting the laws.
      Think it can be a good thing, but not while it's being used by fucktards.
      There have been lots of woeful mistakes already and nothing seems to have been done about it.
      This isn't f**king rocket science, we're not sending someone to the f**king moon here - there's a f**king line and a few rules to apply.
      Mind boggling that heads haven't been knocked together months ago to sort it out, unbelievable really give the popularity of the PL, the money involved etc.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #39: Oct 18, 2020 03:20:43 pm
      VAR in a vaccum is a great tool, but the way it is being used is crushing the spirit of the game as well as slowing it down to MLB levels.

      One of the things about the Pickford play that frustrates me is that in the past we have seen cases where a corner kick is delayed because they are "checking for possible red card", but yet a player gets tackled and injured and they don't check.

      It should be used for clear and obvious errors and let the game flow.
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #40: Oct 18, 2020 06:15:18 pm
      I understand that VAR is only as good as the people who are employed to use it but for me it can f**k right off call me old school but I really did prefer the game without it.
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #41: Oct 18, 2020 10:17:38 pm
      It's here to stay, no chance they getting rid of it.

      They just need to iron all the sh*t out and make sure John Moss, Martin Atkinson and this C*NT David Coote, are never f**king allowed to be the VAR  C**t on matchdays ever again!
      Dragonmark
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #42: Oct 19, 2020 02:57:30 am
      Pitchside monitors is as far as reviewing should go. For major decisions (red cards, diving in the box, clear handball) the ref should run to the monitor and review his own calls. Let him do his damn job and not some other bum in the stands. Mexican league did this to perfection, this can work, and is FAR less complicated than VAR.
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #43: Oct 19, 2020 09:30:03 am
      I'm still in favour of it in principle but the way the Premier League are choosing to use it is an absolute disgrace.

      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #44: Oct 19, 2020 12:38:34 pm
      Pitchside monitors is as far as reviewing should go. For major decisions (red cards, diving in the box, clear handball) the ref should run to the monitor and review his own calls. Let him do his damn job and not some other bum in the stands. Mexican league did this to perfection, this can work, and is FAR less complicated than VAR.

      Exactly!

      The ref can watch the screen and request replays and stills but it’s his decision, and his only, not some failed ref sat in a room miles away.

      Or it needs to be a individual assessor, not mates of the ref, who are held accountable and must explain their decisions if they over rule the on pitch ref.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #45: Oct 19, 2020 01:57:53 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Only people in favour of VAR still are none match goers. The ones who want perfection and moan when they can see the replays when the officials make a mistake. They’re the ones who helped campaign for it.

      The match goer never wanted it. Human error is part of the game, if anything it makes it more exciting and in general the decisions balance themselves out, some you get some you don't. Var has always been a shambles but even more so when you’re at the ground. It’s a f**king joke.

      Imagine being in that away end then and that moment is taken away from you all because manes fingernail was offside. It’s pathetic.

      None of us are "matchgoers" atm, and we shouldn't be segregating our fanbase by matchgoers, non matchgoers, or any other criteria. Whether you are or not, whether there is VAR or not, every goal scored is provisional until play restarts. It has always been that.

      I can accept any decision once it is correct. So I wanted to see why Mane was deemed offside before posting this. Eventually, we see that the black line that corresponds to the red broken line drawn for Mane, appears beyond the yellow line of the defender's foot. Unfortunately, that means it's offside. It's millimetres, but millimetres matter when there's a EPL title at stake. We've had those very tight VAR decisions go our way before, so even though I'm upset it's gone against me this time, I would be a total hypocrite to complain about it now. We have got off relatively lightly with VAR calls compared to other clubs.

      I'm more upset that crap defending threw away 2 leads and 2 points. Why did Hendo not intercept the through ball that led to the equaliser, and why did our defenders allow their players to easily outjump them to equalise both times. That's what should be the talking point. That definitely has to go. If they don't allow that to happen, we have 3 points and the last minute incident doesn't matter. Whoever is at centre back has to get to the ball first over the coming months, not stand there watching his opponent have free headers every week.

      Without VAR, Chelsea wouldn't have got the penalty to help take us over the finishing line last season, and they would have had 11 men to play against us recently. So I won't say it should be binned. We need it, it is doing a great job the vast majority of the time and thankfully, it is not going anywhere.
      FL Red
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #46: Oct 19, 2020 02:23:14 pm
      Still think they should just make it like this....managers get 2 challenges per game. If they want a play looked at, they tell the 4th official (within a reasonable amount of time from when the play happens) and the match ref comes over and looks at the pitch side monitor at the play. If he sees that the video shows a mistake was made, then he changes the call. So at most that's 4 stoppages per game and leave it up to the managers to decide when to use them. Once they are out of challenges, if the worst call of the day is made, too bad, it stands. You can't tell me that if Oliver had watched that challenge over on a monitor by the pitch he wouldn't have come over and sent off Pickford.

      Hell, I've seen them give deference to the linesman before and change their minds due to what they see...so why can't they change their minds based on what they see on a monitor?

      Goal line tech is fine, and I'd be they are working on tech to automatically determine offside. Can't imagine it should be that hard with sensors in the ball, and something on each player. Determine where everyone is at all times relative to the ball and have a big light that goes off when someone's offside.

      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #47: Oct 19, 2020 06:48:06 pm
      Still think they should just make it like this....managers get 2 challenges per game. If they want a play looked at, they tell the 4th official (within a reasonable amount of time from when the play happens) and the match ref comes over and looks at the pitch side monitor at the play. If he sees that the video shows a mistake was made, then he changes the call. So at most that's 4 stoppages per game and leave it up to the managers to decide when to use them. Once they are out of challenges, if the worst call of the day is made, too bad, it stands. You can't tell me that if Oliver had watched that challenge over on a monitor by the pitch he wouldn't have come over and sent off Pickford.

      Hell, I've seen them give deference to the linesman before and change their minds due to what they see...so why can't they change their minds based on what they see on a monitor?

      Goal line tech is fine, and I'd be they are working on tech to automatically determine offside. Can't imagine it should be that hard with sensors in the ball, and something on each player. Determine where everyone is at all times relative to the ball and have a big light that goes off when someone's offside.

      It's a good idea, has been mooted a few time. I would just go with one challenge for each team, have 4 could take away the spontaneity of the game. If VAR has the power through technology then the clubs involved, who stand to lose millions, should have some say as well. But only on penalties and red cards. Offsides do not come under the clear and obvious error rule.
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #48: Oct 19, 2020 07:23:21 pm

      None of us are "matchgoers" atm, and we shouldn't be segregating our fanbase by matchgoers, non matchgoers, or any other criteria. Whether you are or not, whether there is VAR or not, every goal scored is provisional until play restarts. It has always been that.

      I can accept any decision once it is correct. So I wanted to see why Mane was deemed offside before posting this. Eventually, we see that the black line that corresponds to the red broken line drawn for Mane, appears beyond the yellow line of the defender's foot. Unfortunately, that means it's offside. It's millimetres, but millimetres matter when there's a EPL title at stake. We've had those very tight VAR decisions go our way before, so even though I'm upset it's gone against me this time, I would be a total hypocrite to complain about it now. We have got off relatively lightly with VAR calls compared to other clubs.

      I'm more upset that crap defending threw away 2 leads and 2 points. Why did Hendo not intercept the through ball that led to the equaliser, and why did our defenders allow their players to easily outjump them to equalise both times. That's what should be the talking point. That definitely has to go. If they don't allow that to happen, we have 3 points and the last minute incident doesn't matter. Whoever is at centre back has to get to the ball first over the coming months, not stand there watching his opponent have free headers every week.

      Without VAR, Chelsea wouldn't have got the penalty to help take us over the finishing line last season, and they would have had 11 men to play against us recently. So I won't say it should be binned. We need it, it is doing a great job the vast majority of the time and thankfully, it is not going anywhere.

      You’re unbelievable, sticking up for that sh*te. Never offside. For a start they can just pause it at any frame they want and make their judgement on that. VVD wasn’t off and what about how the challenge on VVD was reviewed by your precious system and yet Pickford stayed on the pitch?

      The way VAR is used in the prem is an absolute joke.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #49: Oct 19, 2020 08:09:24 pm
      I'm not sticking up for that at all, I'm explaining what happened. If you don't accept it or you would rather believe the FA is out to get us, that's up to you. I don't know about you, but I saw a zoom of the frame today, and it clearly shows why the decision was made. Therefore I can't complain, or invent conspiracy theories. These decisions must be correct, and if it comes down to millimetres, then that's the way it has to be. On/Offside is a factual decision.

      We're lucky that we've only had 3 or 4 decisions overturned against us since it began. Other clubs have had 10-15.

      Quote from Harrisimo
      It's a good idea, has been mooted a few time. I would just go with one challenge for each team, have 4 could take away the spontaneity of the game. If VAR has the power through technology then the clubs involved, who stand to lose millions, should have some say as well. But only on penalties and red cards. Offsides do not come under the clear and obvious error rule.

      You're now asking managers to control the way the game is officiated, rather than referees. So we're out of reviews by injury time, and the ref is told a goal is offside. We can't do anything about it either. That doesn't mean we should use reviews to try and get an opponent sent off. Without fans, it's not a good look. With fans, you risk crowd trouble.

      The original VVD decision was given offside by the linesman. If it was overturned, then a penalty would have been given. Probably, but not automatically a red card for it. Referees are reluctant to send off goalkeepers for conceding penalties, as it means a much longer than normal break in play.

      I hate the phrase "clear and obvious". I hate it more when people say offside is "clear and obvious". Offside calls are based on "zero tolerance". It's much easier to understand.

      VAR is a refereeing aid, not a team tactic to use and influence the game like any other. It should stay that way.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #50: Oct 19, 2020 10:05:47 pm
      Another stupid offside disallowed goal in that Wolves match then.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #51: Oct 20, 2020 01:39:02 am
      people really thought VAR would stop referees from "getting things wrong" or outright fixing games - as if referees individually fixed games to begin with. the system is now in place but fixes happen anyway - they can do whatever they want. they can show us red and blue lines and we can see someone is onside but they can say it's offside anyway and they don't have to explain anything. we will keep buying. they have billions douped. we're f**king doomed.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #52: Oct 20, 2020 10:22:03 am

      None of us are "matchgoers" atm, and we shouldn't be segregating our fanbase by matchgoers, non matchgoers, or any other criteria. Whether you are or not, whether there is VAR or not, every goal scored is provisional until play restarts. It has always been that.

      I can accept any decision once it is correct. So I wanted to see why Mane was deemed offside before posting this. Eventually, we see that the black line that corresponds to the red broken line drawn for Mane, appears beyond the yellow line of the defender's foot. Unfortunately, that means it's offside. It's millimetres, but millimetres matter when there's a EPL title at stake. We've had those very tight VAR decisions go our way before, so even though I'm upset it's gone against me this time, I would be a total hypocrite to complain about it now. We have got off relatively lightly with VAR calls compared to other clubs.

      I'm more upset that crap defending threw away 2 leads and 2 points. Why did Hendo not intercept the through ball that led to the equaliser, and why did our defenders allow their players to easily outjump them to equalise both times. That's what should be the talking point. That definitely has to go. If they don't allow that to happen, we have 3 points and the last minute incident doesn't matter. Whoever is at centre back has to get to the ball first over the coming months, not stand there watching his opponent have free headers every week.

      Without VAR, Chelsea wouldn't have got the penalty to help take us over the finishing line last season, and they would have had 11 men to play against us recently. So I won't say it should be binned. We need it, it is doing a great job the vast majority of the time and thankfully, it is not going anywhere.

      I don’t know why people get their knickers in a twist because they don’t go to the match. My post didn’t mean to offend those people. But all you did was go and prove what I said anyway.

      No, nobody goes the match at the minute, but VAR was brought in when people did, so I’m not sure what your point is.

      My point is that had a survey been done amongst season ticket holders, not just at our club but up and down the country, then I’m pretty certain a high percentage would have been against VAR. I’m even more certain now that if one was conducted then the results would be above 90% against.

      Before VAR was introduced, if you had done a survey amongst fans up and down the country who don’t go to the match and watch from home then I think most would have been in favour of VAR. If you asked them now, I think the numbers would have dropped though.

      I obviously don’t have any numbers or facts to support this, it’s just my opinion from what I’ve experienced or seen myself.

      You say in your post that you want perfection basically - which is what my original post was all about. Before VAR came in, this was huge across social media. Any decision a referee got wrong was highlighted and spoken about everywhere. Not just on social media, the likes of carragher and neville would go in on it on MNF too. It became a big thing and there was pressure to bring technology into the game. This came from non match goers who are desperate for every decision to be factual and correct like yourself.

      Whereas people who go the match accept human error whether they go for you or against you, they just want the game to flow.

      On your last point, cant actually believe you think VAR has been a great tool so far and that is has been used superbly. It’s been a shambles from day one and there are talking points in several games, every single god damn week.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #53: Oct 20, 2020 08:39:36 pm
      Tell you what, watching this Utd game against Paris... it’s shocking how much better foreign refs are compared to ours, it’s not even funny, the difference in quality is scary.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #54: Oct 20, 2020 10:10:14 pm
      David Coote was on VAR duty for the game. He has made a mess of things a few times. From Nottingham.

      All these refs have to give info regarding their upbringing, who they grew up supporting etc. when they are appointed. It's known that yesterday's ref Michael Oliver is a Newcastle fan. Coote's team preference is unknown according to the Echo's survey.

      I'd like to think Coote made genuine errors.

      My mate is a ref just been promoted to do the conference and EPL u23s. Hes down as being a Bury fan.

      Hes one happy man tonight after the game in Paris let's put it that way.
      Davbro
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #55: Oct 20, 2020 10:10:43 pm
      Tell you what, watching this Utd game against Paris... it’s shocking how much better foreign refs are compared to ours, it’s not even funny, the difference in quality is scary.

      What would you say the difference is? Could it be arrogance of British referees? Fear of getting it wrong and getting lambasted by the media? I mean before VAR I used to think continental referees used to blow the whistle too much but now like you, I think they are more decisive and just...... well better I suppose.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #56: Oct 20, 2020 10:34:14 pm
      What would you say the difference is? Could it be arrogance of British referees? Fear of getting it wrong and getting lambasted by the media? I mean before VAR I used to think continental referees used to blow the whistle too much but now like you, I think they are more decisive and just...... well better I suppose.

      Pro refs in Premier league earn a basic of £42k topped up with match fee's they can make over £70k. I don't think it's enough. Given the pressure and resposibility they should be on double that plus fee's.

      Been said before but managers should have one challenge on penalties and red cards per game. That might eliminate a lot of aggro from managers after the game and reduce pressure on refs.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #57: Oct 20, 2020 10:50:28 pm
      people really thought VAR would stop referees from "getting things wrong" or outright fixing games - as if referees individually fixed games to begin with. the system is now in place but fixes happen anyway - they can do whatever they want. they can show us red and blue lines and we can see someone is onside but they can say it's offside anyway and they don't have to explain anything. we will keep buying. they have billions douped. we're f**king doomed.

      Come on Del boy yer don't think there is  match fixing going on. The game isn't 100% clean, maybe a player can be got at.But not an entire team. A ref couldn't guarantee a fix, they have power but not the power to force or guarantee a result.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #58: Oct 21, 2020 12:11:15 am
      What would you say the difference is? Could it be arrogance of British referees? Fear of getting it wrong and getting lambasted by the media? I mean before VAR I used to think continental referees used to blow the whistle too much but now like you, I think they are more decisive and just...... well better I suppose.
      I think ours are actually too sensitive and don’t want to accept they are terrible so ignore it all so their feelings don’t get hurt... that ref today in the Utd game did not give one single f**k, he knew his decisions and stuck to them and had minimal help from VAR, in fact I only heard the word VAR like once or twice, it was refreshing.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #59: Oct 21, 2020 06:04:47 am
      I think ours are actually too sensitive and don’t want to accept they are terrible so ignore it all so their feelings don’t get hurt... that ref today in the Utd game did not give one single f**k, he knew his decisions and stuck to them and had minimal help from VAR, in fact I only heard the word VAR like once or twice, it was refreshing.

      In the Rennes Krasnodar Champions League match today a challenge was made in the area and a player was upended. Play continued for about 10 seconds and the referee blew his whistle, pointed to his earpiece and then to the spot. Replay showed it was deffo a pen. No drama, no conversation. Greek center ref and Italian VAR. It CAN be made to work right, you just need the right people.
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #60: Oct 21, 2020 07:01:52 am
      Tell you what, watching this Utd game against Paris... it’s shocking how much better foreign refs are compared to ours, it’s not even funny, the difference in quality is scary.
      The gulf in quality is massive and it’s been that way for quite some time,wouldn’t mind swapping out some of our ‘so called refs ‘with some of there’s for a season.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #61: Oct 21, 2020 11:56:16 am
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      My point is that had a survey been done amongst season ticket holders, not just at our club but up and down the country, then I’m pretty certain a high percentage would have been against VAR. I’m even more certain now that if one was conducted then the results would be above 90% against.

      Before VAR was introduced, if you had done a survey amongst fans up and down the country who don’t go to the match and watch from home then I think most would have been in favour of VAR. If you asked them now, I think the numbers would have dropped though.

      I obviously don’t have any numbers or facts to support this, it’s just my opinion from what I’ve experienced or seen myself.

      You say in your post that you want perfection basically - which is what my original post was all about. Before VAR came in, this was huge across social media. Any decision a referee got wrong was highlighted and spoken about everywhere. Not just on social media, the likes of carragher and neville would go in on it on MNF too. It became a big thing and there was pressure to bring technology into the game. This came from non match goers who are desperate for every decision to be factual and correct like yourself.

      Whereas people who go the match accept human error whether they go for you or against you, they just want the game to flow.

      On your last point, cant actually believe you think VAR has been a great tool so far and that is has been used superbly. It’s been a shambles from day one and there are talking points in several games, every single god damn week.

      I'm not looking for perfection. VAR never guaranteed perfection. What I look for is accuracy. If all of the ball is 1mm over the goalline, a goal is scored. If it's 10cm short, it's not a goal. We all accept that. If a part of the player is found 1mm over the defensive line, they are offside. If he is level with the defensive line, his goal stands. We all have to accept that, that's the law. It's not there for show, it's there for a reason.

      I've seen the surveys. Most people support VAR in some form, even though they want it to change. But VAR doesn't change, it's up to IFAB to make the changes, then the VAR will apply whatever that change is. Under the laws last year, VVD would have won a penalty, and Mane would be onside. Now with the change in the law, both are offside. However hard it is to take, and in this case it is very hard, take it we must. I just got on with the rest of the game. While I'm one of it's biggest advocates, the knee jerk thread that was set up here minutes after the game, has not got universal support from the posters here, let alone fans in general. So assuming that all "matchgoer" and "non matchgoer" fans, share the same opinion as you think is wrong.

      We've seen the reaction to the challenge on VVD, when human error happens. But the laws apply to all teams equally. If you handle the ball in the box it will be spotted. If you dive in the box you will get booked, not a penalty. If you move off your line to save a penalty, it will be retaken. If you are in an offside position, you will be caught and your goal will be disallowed. Winning the league brings in 150mn quid of prize money, getting relegated means you have to settle for parachute payments. So as in most major sports, we now have the resources to apply the laws of the game, and they are been used. This is not a Sunday League kickabout, there are serious prizes at stake, and human error is not good enough, decisions must be what they should be. 
      Davbro
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #62: Oct 21, 2020 12:08:06 pm
      I think ours are actually too sensitive and don’t want to accept they are terrible so ignore it all so their feelings don’t get hurt... that ref today in the Utd game did not give one single f**k, he knew his decisions and stuck to them and had minimal help from VAR, in fact I only heard the word VAR like once or twice, it was refreshing.

      Do you think that could also be a reason why British referees don't seem to get the big Euro and World cup games. Last big game I remember a Bristish ref officiating was the world cup final between Spain and Netherlands. I'm too lazy to check the stats tbh but just don't remember seeing it too often. If it is the case  then what is going on at Referee university? Should we be sending them away on a gap year?
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #63: Oct 21, 2020 01:07:38 pm
      Do you think that could also be a reason why British referees don't seem to get the big Euro and World cup games. Last big game I remember a Bristish ref officiating was the world cup final between Spain and Netherlands. I'm too lazy to check the stats tbh but just don't remember seeing it too often. If it is the case  then what is going on at Referee university? Should we be sending them away on a gap year?
      I think it’s just a case of our culture sometimes now, we live in a world were we think we are the dogs bollocks and if anyone says otherwise, it’s ignored, we’d rather just believe we are great and perfect, and you don’t see it more than in refs... like I said, it’s stems from insecurity, and those refs are some extremely insecure humans, who probably love the attention they make to be honest, they couldn’t do it as players so they’ll get the headlines as refs, bad or good.

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