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      VAR has to go

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      king kenny and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #175: Jan 20, 2021 08:12:48 pm
      Not saying it's right but by the law that was a "correct" decision. It's not corrupt if they're applying the laws, it just might mean the law is stupid.

      It's not correct. If so then you'd be seeing teams just put strikers behind the last defender so they can come back and try and steal the ball.

      Rodri was interfering with play as soon as he can ran back with an intention to tackle Mings. The phase of play doesn't stop as soon as the ball hits Mings.

      I mean I have no doubt they'll cover themselves by saying it's a new phase but it's not let's be honest.
      tezmac
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #176: Jan 20, 2021 08:14:44 pm
      Utter sh*te just like John Moss
      Tayls
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #177: Jan 20, 2021 08:18:56 pm
      It's not correct. If so then you'd be seeing teams just put strikers behind the last defender so they can come back and try and steal the ball.

      Rodri was interfering with play as soon as he can ran back with an intention to tackle Mings. The phase of play doesn't stop as soon as the ball hits Mings.

      I mean I have no doubt they'll cover themselves by saying it's a new phase but it's not let's be honest.

      I think as soon as Mings plays the ball deliberately and tries to control it Rodri is no longer offside. I agree, its stupid, I did say that, but it's also apparently the law.

      Considering being offside is essentially an attacker gaining an "unfair advantage", it's ridiculous you could say Mane's arse/elbow was an unfair advantage but Rodri sneaking up on Mings wasn't. Stupidly, that seems to be the law, so the problem isn't the implementation but the rule itself.
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #178: Jan 20, 2021 08:24:40 pm
      I think as soon as Mings plays the ball deliberately and tries to control it Rodri is no longer offside. I agree, its stupid, I did say that, but it's also apparently the law.

      Considering being offside is essentially an attacker gaining an "unfair advantage", it's ridiculous you could say Mane's arse/elbow was an unfair advantage but Rodri sneaking up on Mings wasn't. Stupidly, that seems to be the law, so the problem isn't the implementation but the rule itself.

      Yep, the irony is if Ming's had not played the ball & a shitty player had run from on onside position & scored. Maybe that could be used tactically in the future
      rossyred
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #179: Jan 20, 2021 08:27:34 pm
      Yep, the irony is if Ming's had not played the ball & a shitty player had run from on onside position & scored. Maybe that could be used tactically in the future

      Yes but what is mings supposed to apart from launch he can't not touch it because he will have someone running on to him from in front of him , he can't control it because someone sneaking behind shocking rule
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #180: Jan 20, 2021 08:36:29 pm
      Yes but what is mings supposed to apart from launch he can't not touch it because he will have someone running on to him from in front of him , he can't control it because someone sneaking behind shocking rule

      Exactly, if we employed that tactic with in a day the rule would change. It doesn't make sense
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #181: Jan 21, 2021 02:43:40 am
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QaCRXnappM

      Question for the experts here on this VAR-awarded penalty. Should it be a penalty? (from about 5:15 in the linked video).

      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #182: Jan 21, 2021 06:48:26 am
      Mings tweeted that he had no idea about that rule, which hows just how obscure the rule in. It's nonsense. Just watch that tactic of standing offside becoming used more often now.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #183: Jan 21, 2021 12:51:42 pm
      Lets be honest if that was against City or United (the offside and the pen) then it would have been offside and no pen,if it had been Salah/Mane coming back from an offside position to tackle Mings then the flag or VAR would have disallowed it,the rules only happen when it suits the PL and the refs and when they make a mistake nothing is done(Pickford on VVD).
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #184: Jan 21, 2021 06:38:18 pm
      Mings tweeted that he had no idea about that rule, which hows just how obscure the rule in. It's nonsense. Just watch that tactic of standing offside becoming used more often now.

      Thiery Henry used that tactic many times. Sometimes get a ball deflecting off s defender to play him on, but more subtlety, he would roam off side, walk 20 yds across the pitch and step back on side yards from any defenders. Very clever and astute player, with the talent to go with it.
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #185: Jan 21, 2021 06:54:38 pm
      Yes but what is mings supposed to apart from launch he can't not touch it because he will have someone running on to him from in front of him , he can't control it because someone sneaking behind shocking rule

      Yep, the irony is if Ming's had not played the ball & a shitty player had run from on onside position & scored. Maybe that could be used tactically in the future


      But before this var sh*te, and linesmen not allowed to raise their flag until the phase of play has concluded,
      Rodri would have been ruled offside the moment the ball left his team mates boot !
      Interfering with play, not interfering with play, was he active or passive, was he obstructing the keeper.

      Shanks once said, he wasn’t offside ? Because he wasn’t interfering with play ?
      If that’s one of my players, he’d bloody well better be interfering with play !

      I think these changes to the rules, are no more than some n*b at league headquarters needing to get his name on record for the duration.
      Absolute bloody nonsense most of it, each and every plot nibbling away at our beautiful game, being diluted by no names, who wanna become big names.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #186: Jan 22, 2021 11:58:04 am
      Quote from rossyred
      Yes but what is mings supposed to apart from launch he can't not touch it because he will have someone running on to him from in front of him , he can't control it because someone sneaking behind shocking rule

      Under the law, the decision to give the goal is correct. When the forward wins the ball off an opponent, there is a reset to a new phase of play, and the earlier offside is nullified. If you don't like the law the law can be changed, but it's not a VAR issue.

      Quote from Robby The Z
      So is there any instance of an assistant referee seeing a player in an offside position receive a ball (advancing on goal), no matter how far "behind" the 2nd to last defender he is when the ball is played, where he can raise the flag immediately?

      They only do it if they are certain the forward is offside. Any doubt at all and the advice is to keep the flag down until the move ends. In either case, the move only ends when the ref blows his whistle. A goal scored by Newcastle against Sheffield United last season is one such example where the ref waved play on while the flag was up. VAR then gave the goal.

      The argument against the wait, is that there is a risk of injury to players. I have to yet see one injury in any competition with VAR, caused because the flag didn't go up until the end of the move.

      Quote from 0112358
      VAR has to go solely of the reason that it destroys genuine entertainment and excitement. I mean you can't emotionally explode anymore on a goal from your team because you know that it might be overturned. Do leave VAR only for those cases where a guy is 2m offside or when some dude does foul someone Zidane-headbutt-style - the real gross things.

      Most goals are not overturned. Once the goal is valid, there is no problem. VAR is not about emotion or entertainment, it's about accuracy. Oliver has admitted that it was wrong not to use VAR for the Pickford kung fu impression. As regards us, I knew from Day 1 that a few decisions would go against us, and I would have to be prepared for that. When a big VAR decision goes against us now, I know it's probably right so I don't lose my rag, I just sit down again, as I used to years ago when we would think we've scored, only to then see the flag already up, which was often the wrong decision. Fans used to complain every week about divers winning penalties in the box. It doesn't happen anymore, and the sport is far better for it.

      If the league was won by entertainment, you could hand City the league every year. But it's won on results, and the result at the end of 90 minutes must be correct. The alternative is more days/nights like Kiev, with no VAR and officiating still stuck in the 19th Century.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #187: Jan 22, 2021 02:08:42 pm
      Under the law, the decision to give the goal is correct. When the forward wins the ball off an opponent, there is a reset to a new phase of play, and the earlier offside is nullified. If you don't like the law the law can be changed, but it's not a VAR issue.

      They only do it if they are certain the forward is offside. Any doubt at all and the advice is to keep the flag down until the move ends. In either case, the move only ends when the ref blows his whistle. A goal scored by Newcastle against Sheffield United last season is one such example where the ref waved play on while the flag was up. VAR then gave the goal.

      The argument against the wait, is that there is a risk of injury to players. I have to yet see one injury in any competition with VAR, caused because the flag didn't go up until the end of the move.

      Most goals are not overturned. Once the goal is valid, there is no problem. VAR is not about emotion or entertainment, it's about accuracy. Oliver has admitted that it was wrong not to use VAR for the Pickford kung fu impression. As regards us, I knew from Day 1 that a few decisions would go against us, and I would have to be prepared for that. When a big VAR decision goes against us now, I know it's probably right so I don't lose my rag, I just sit down again, as I used to years ago when we would think we've scored, only to then see the flag already up, which was often the wrong decision. Fans used to complain every week about divers winning penalties in the box. It doesn't happen anymore, and the sport is far better for it.

      If the league was won by entertainment, you could hand City the league every year. But it's won on results, and the result at the end of 90 minutes must be correct. The alternative is more days/nights like Kiev, with no VAR and officiating still stuck in the 19th Century.

      Like a Trump nutjob fan, will defend the indefensible!!
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #188: Jan 24, 2021 10:30:35 pm
      What's with the "check complete" after 2 seconds and before we have even see the replay. Load of sh*t. Vendetta against us,
      I swear!
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #189: Jan 26, 2021 09:04:57 pm
      So shitty get away with a goal & the rule gets changed. So what now lino puts flag up & defenders half stop & var gives it ? WTF how many times against manure did that flag not go up when it was yards offside not even tight.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #190: Jan 26, 2021 09:16:17 pm
      So shitty get away with a goal & the rule gets changed. So what now lino puts flag up & defenders half stop & var gives it ?


      Just seen the replay of the goal, phrase that comes to my mind is "play to the whistle."
      bazspeedman
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #191: Jan 26, 2021 09:20:35 pm
      Just seen the replay of the goal, phrase that comes to my mind is "play to the whistle."

      Yup, in fact there is no need for offside flags anymore with VAR making the final call now.
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #192: Jan 26, 2021 09:43:26 pm
      Exactly, why are the rules being misinterpreted by the officials in the first place. It's pointless them raising a flag at all with big brother overseeing everything
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #193: Jan 26, 2021 11:31:15 pm
      Just seen the replay of the goal, phrase that comes to my mind is "play to the whistle."

      Was thing the same just watching MOTD there.

      A bit strange that the flag was raised until the okay finished  but one of the first things I was taught was to play to the whistle.

      bmck
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #194: Jan 29, 2021 04:11:00 pm
      Wasn't even just VAR last nite, the ref made the final decision at pitchside on Bobs handball. For me if anything its a free for Bob, Dier arm round him, pulling, dragging him off balance and his arm came up.
      The only thing could say is maybe got a bit lucky to also have Son's goal chalked off, width of an ankle.
      Something has to be done though at some stage, cause it's f**king up the game with all the pricking around taking ages to come to a decision. Clear and obvious?!?
      king kenny
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #195: Jan 29, 2021 04:24:57 pm
      Wasn't even just VAR last nite, the ref made the final decision at pitchside on Bobs handball. For me if anything its a free for Bob, Dier arm round him, pulling, dragging him off balance and his arm came up.
      The only thing could say is maybe got a bit lucky to also have Son's goal chalked off, width of an ankle.
      Something has to be done though at some stage, cause it's f**king up the game with all the pricking around taking ages to come to a decision. Clear and obvious?!?

      Should it not been at least a free kick to us as it hit the spurs player's arm first and then rebounded onto Firmino's arm!    What was the ref looking at on screen?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #196: Jan 29, 2021 05:08:18 pm
      Should it not been at least a free kick to us as it hit the spurs player's arm first and then rebounded onto Firmino's arm!    What was the ref looking at on screen?

      The way the rule is written re VAR it's:

      1. Defender handles the ball it's OK.

      2. Defender mauls the attacker it's OK.

      3. Attacker has his arm pushed into the ball 50 metres and 3 passes prior to the strike for goal, it's not OK.

      bmck
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #197: Jan 29, 2021 05:16:21 pm
      Should it not been at least a free kick to us as it hit the spurs player's arm first and then rebounded onto Firmino's arm!    What was the ref looking at on screen?

      The VAR eegits where the ones to call attention to it - then can't even decide what to do. Bunch of numpties.
      king kenny
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #198: Jan 29, 2021 06:49:06 pm
      The way the rule is written re VAR it's:

      1. Defender handles the ball it's OK.

      2. Defender mauls the attacker it's OK.

      3. Attacker has his arm pushed into the ball 50 metres and 3 passes prior to the strike for goal, it's not OK.



       :lmao:

      I thought that was the best goal of the game it was a brilliant moment from Firmino who was been bearhugged by the defender to still finding mane with a brilliant assistant and a equally fantastic finish by Salah, it was our front 3 at their absolute best.   For me that hand was a result of Firmino trying to get out of the wrestle in that direction.

      But but if that move happens 40 yds forward then in my opinion even VAR could not deny us of a stonewall penalty, because it is a handball by the defender first, never mind the WWF move. 

      So why not there?



      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #199: Jan 29, 2021 08:28:05 pm
      Quote from bmck
      Wasn't even just VAR last nite, the ref made the final decision at pitchside on Bobs handball. For me if anything its a free for Bob, Dier arm round him, pulling, dragging him off balance and his arm came up.
      The only thing could say is maybe got a bit lucky to also have Son's goal chalked off, width of an ankle.
      Something has to be done though at some stage, cause it's f**king up the game with all the pricking around taking ages to come to a decision. Clear and obvious?!?

      Both decisions were correct, as per the lotg.  Our backline set our offside trap, we caught the forward offside, so we should be rewarded for that. We win possession from the ball hitting Firmino's arm, therefore the goal has to be ruled out. Accidental handball is allowed if we didn't win possession from it and passed it to at least two teammates before the goal was scored. The laws can go if people don't like the laws, but VAR can't.

      Atkinson took his time going to the monitor, but he can't see that incident without using VAR. That's what it's for. The current "time limit" is the restart of play. Otherwise, it takes as long as it takes.

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