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      VAR has to go

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      clint_call01
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #325: Apr 12, 2021 10:08:38 am
      As far as offside goes if should be the initial line they draw.. If the player is CLEARLY in front of the last defender rule the goal out, if you need to start using lines up the players armpits and secondary lines that's where the whole thing has become farcical. I think it should be judged on the players feet, it's the only fair way to use VAR

      Definitely should be judged by players feet and referees growing some balls.

      It is not that easy. Imagine a flying header with legs after a defender.

      It must be done from the middle of the chest of the player.
      David Wright
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #326: Apr 12, 2021 11:10:57 am
      I think VAR should be binned at the end of the season for sure !
      stuey
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #327: Apr 12, 2021 11:18:36 am
      What’s the f**king use of technological innovation meant to eliminate human error being judged by some biased/visually impaired FA official who decides if it’s right or wrong??

      Straight out of Monty Python.

      After saying that the whole offside debacle wants reviewing, VAR exposes the ridiculous decisions applied to a vague interpretation of a basic rule of football.
      « Last Edit: Apr 12, 2021 11:27:26 am by stuey »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #328: Apr 12, 2021 12:08:01 pm
      I think VAR should be binned at the end of the season for sure !

      We've seen in europe it can be useful if applied better.

      Although I'd consider binning it if it means linesmen will start raising the flag again when they see an obvious offside.
      Davbro
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #329: Apr 12, 2021 12:17:31 pm
      It is not that easy. Imagine a flying header with legs after a defender.

      It must be done from the middle of the chest of the player.
      I know what you mean, but another aspect is the body naturally falls forward over your feet as your about to sprint. As for the flying header, even as a defender I still think advantage should go to the attacker. Just my humble opinion though.
      clint_call01
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #330: Apr 12, 2021 01:20:08 pm
      I know what you mean, but another aspect is the body naturally falls forward over your feet as your about to sprint. As for the flying header, even as a defender I still think advantage should go to the attacker. Just my humble opinion though.

      It must be done from the chest because someone who is sprinting and has his chest forward, it is an advantage to that person (this same applies for athletics).
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #331: Apr 12, 2021 08:48:00 pm
      West Brom v Southampton wtf it's getting worse from the incompetence of var
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #332: Apr 13, 2021 01:41:39 pm
      Quote from AussieRed
      What WAS THAT?

      Unfortunately the red line, (Jota) is shown to be in front of the blue line (defender). If you know the offside rule, you know what that means.

      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Awful decision yesterday and it feels like we get a lot of these ones go against us. I’ve watched it back about twenty times and I still don’t understand or see why it’s offside.

      I’d rather they bin VAR as football was certainly much more enjoyable before it came in, but presuming it stays then they need to address the offsides immediately. If it takes the VAR team several minutes to draw lines then it’s fairly simple for me, they’re on side.

      They’re doing it the wrong way round in opinion. They look for a body part of the attacker to be ahead of the defender and if so then they’re offside. But they should change it round to any part of the attackers body is level with the defender then they’re on side and it would be much easier for everybody.

      Thought the red card for leeds was a joke yesterday too. We all know that side of the game went out ten or fifteen years ago but that was never a red. Wasn’t even a booking not that long ago. And it wasn’t even a foul not long before that!

      You're trying to argue that a kick in the back of the knee is a joke, are you? You would be lucky to get away with just a yellow 15 years ago. Under today's rules, it's a foul and a red card and a 3 game ban, and because it is, he won't be able to do that to us next week.

      Watching the offside call in our game once, is enough to tell you it's offside. The lines were clearly drawn out for you by Madley and his team, all you have to do is look at them. We've got those calls in our favour before, we've got them this season, we will get them again, and we get them against us occasionally. If people don't like them, the rules may be changed the following year. (although there are no plans to do so atm) 

      Quote from saille29
      VAR strikes again, spud v manure dear oh dear, Roy Keane summed it up perfectly for me " if that's a foul we'd might as well pack up and go home "
      The PGMOL even come from under their rock to explain the decision.
      Bloody gets more farcical game by game

      Manc intentionally raises hand. Manc slaps opponent in face. Mancs put ball in net. Mayhem. Uproar. Farcical. How dare a ref disallow a goal by the mancs. Does he know who they are?  :f_steam:

      Of course it's a clearcut foul. It actually looks worse at full speed, than what the ref saw. Given he was already on a yellow, he was lucky to stay on the pitch imo. Lazar Markovic was getting sent off for it against Basle at home years ago, long before VAR was available. Last year the VAR was taking those decisions directly. Now the ref uses VAR to see the incident for himself and make his own mind up. He was labelled a "biased manc" here, for giving the penalty in the derby. I don't think so after this.

      Keane stayed put, and I'm sure he'll be back for everyone to laugh at his on air screeching competitions with his fellow pundits again before we know it.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #333: Apr 13, 2021 01:42:20 pm
      The VAR apologist is here, ladies and gentlemen :lmao:
      Tayls
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #334: Apr 13, 2021 02:13:07 pm

      Interested as to whether or not you have ever played football yourself, or do you just watch it?
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #335: Apr 13, 2021 03:29:26 pm

      Manc intentionally raises hand. Manc slaps opponent in face. Mancs put ball in net. Mayhem. Uproar. Farcical. How dare a ref disallow a goal by the mancs. Does he know who they are?  :f_steam:

      Of course it's a clearcut foul. It actually looks worse at full speed, than what the ref saw. Given he was already on a yellow, he was lucky to stay on the pitch imo. Lazar Markovic was getting sent off for it against Basle at home years ago, long before VAR was available. Last year the VAR was taking those decisions directly. Now the ref uses VAR to see the incident for himself and make his own mind up. He was labelled a "biased manc" here, for giving the penalty in the derby. I don't think so after this.

      Keane stayed put, and I'm sure he'll be back for everyone to laugh at his on air screeching competitions with his fellow pundits again before we know it.

      The fact you use the manc word instead of a player clearly confirms this is a biased opinion that's cloudy your so called judgement and  also puts your opinion of VAR in question.

      Anyone that's played football (( clearly you haven't )) knows that it was a natural movement of the arm when you've just beaten a player. If you look closely you can actually see Son trying to grab McT back.

      You could actually work on the VAR panel as most of them haven't played football either, you'll fit in well.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #336: Apr 13, 2021 03:32:12 pm
      He loves being the clown of the forum... loves that he’s known... must live a pretty drab life if this is the way he’s decided to go for attention, even if it’s the bad kind...  :lmao:
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #337: Apr 13, 2021 03:42:40 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      The fact you use the manc word instead of a player clearly confirms this is a biased opinion that's cloudy your so called judgement and  also puts your opinion of VAR in question.

      Anyone that's played football (( clearly you haven't )) knows that it was a natural movement of the arm when you've just beaten a player. If you look closely you can actually see Son trying to grab McT back.

      You could actually work on the VAR panel as most of them haven't played football either, you'll fit in well.

      They don't have to play the game. They just have to know the rules.

      I've seen the entire incident. He knew what he was doing, raised his hands and hit his opponent in the face. That's not a natural movement. You cannot do that in the park and you certainly cannot do it in the Premier League. It's not rugby here.

      Blame VAR as usual, but whether it's there or not, once a ref sees that, he's going to give a foul every single time because he knows the rules. Which he did.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #338: Apr 13, 2021 03:53:21 pm
      They don't have to play the game. They just have to know the rules.

      I've seen the entire incident. He knew what he was doing, raised his hands and hit his opponent in the face. That's not a natural movement. You cannot do that in the park and you certainly cannot do it in the Premier League. It's not rugby here.

      Blame VAR as usual, but whether it's there or not, once a ref sees that, he's going to give a foul every single time because he knows the rules. Which he did.

      You now use the term HE not MANC is there a reason for this.  ;)
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #339: Apr 13, 2021 03:55:32 pm
      He loves being the clown of the forum...
      I can think of a better word but will go with yours.  ;D
      UncleBob
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #340: Apr 13, 2021 07:53:38 pm
      My take on VAR is this:

      It’s sh*t.

      And I’ll tell you why.

      The laws of the game are about interpretation. Just because there is contact shouldn’t mean it’s a foul.
      Just because a finger may, or may not, be offside at the exact moment when the ball was possibly played, it doesn’t mean it should have a 5 minute investigation when you simply cannot determine the exact moment the ball was passed.

      If it’s an off the ball assault (Ramos on karius) then sure, alert the referee.
      Otherwise you are stopping the game to look for any infringements. Like a cctv camera showing litter blowing out of someone’s pocket and then fining him for littering.
      Or charging someone for assault because they brush past each other in a supermarket.
      Or classing someone as suffering with dementia because he forgot where he put the tv remote.
       
      I’m sure var will get better. It has to. Because at the minute it’s like watching some grainy footage of something unexplained released from the RAF and claiming it’s evidence of aliens.



      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #341: Apr 13, 2021 08:24:26 pm
      I can think of a better word but will go with yours.  ;D


      I can think of a better word but will go with yours.  ;D


      I can think of a better word but will go with yours.  ;D


      Gotta laugh at this shenanigans, who the hell thinks this version of var works ? Coote aka lfc across the water
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #342: Apr 13, 2021 08:32:35 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      You now use the term HE not MANC is there a reason for this.  ;)

      I could use either, as he's both. He's also a lucky manc because he should have walked for it imo. Violent Conduct. Serious Foul Play, either term would cover it. It's ultimately up to the ref to give a card or not, but a yellow is the minimum you would expect when someone clearly lashes out and hits a player in the face. The fact he was already on a yellow is probably the only thing that saved him.

      Even though I don't want to, I have defended decisions given in your favour and against us in the past, as I try to see them from an objective pov rather than just our pov. Once it's the correct decision, I can't argue about it.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #343: Apr 13, 2021 09:18:46 pm
      I could use either, as he's both. He's also a lucky manc because he should have walked for it imo. Violent Conduct. Serious Foul Play, either term would cover it. It's ultimately up to the ref to give a card or not, but a yellow is the minimum you would expect when someone clearly lashes out and hits a player in the face. The fact he was already on a yellow is probably the only thing that saved him.

      Even though I don't want to, I have defended decisions given in your favour and against us in the past, as I try to see them from an objective pov rather than just our pov. Once it's the correct decision, I can't argue about it.

      Violent conduct/serious foul play.  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: f**king hell I've heard some bullish!t in my time but that has to be up their with the very best of them.  ;D Even down as the worse post of the year award.

      Your obviously not a fan of football and certainly don't sound like a Liverpool supporter. More importantly I can't see any fan saying such a bazaar comment.  :roll:

      It's official.... You've lost the plot.  :f_doh:
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #344: Apr 13, 2021 09:30:56 pm
      Violent conduct/serious foul play.  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: f**king hell I've heard some bullish!t in my time but that has to be up their with the very best of them.  ;D Even down as the worse post of the year award.

      Your obviously not a fan of football and certainly don't sound like a Liverpool supporter. More importantly I can't see any fan saying such a bazaar comment.  :roll:

      It's official.... You've lost the plot.  :f_doh:

      Keith, you've assumed he had the plot in the first place to lose it !
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #345: Apr 13, 2021 09:44:10 pm
      Keith, you've assumed he had the plot in the first place to lose it !

      It wasn't official though till that plot.... Sorry I mean post.  :lmao:
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #346: Apr 13, 2021 10:49:28 pm
      Quote from UncleBob
      The laws of the game are about interpretation. Just because there is contact shouldn’t mean it’s a foul.
      Just because a finger may, or may not, be offside at the exact moment when the ball was possibly played, it doesn’t mean it should have a 5 minute investigation when you simply cannot determine the exact moment the ball was passed.

      If it’s an off the ball assault (Ramos on karius) then sure, alert the referee.
      Otherwise you are stopping the game to look for any infringements. Like a cctv camera showing litter blowing out of someone’s pocket and then fining him for littering.
      Or charging someone for assault because they brush past each other in a supermarket.
      Or classing someone as suffering with dementia because he forgot where he put the tv remote.
       
      I’m sure var will get better. It has to.

      We can see when the ball was played because the replay is paused when the ball is released. A linesman can't do that unless it's right in front of him. The rest of the time he has 5-10-15 players blocking his view, so he usually puts his flag up and hopes he's right. The West Brom v Southampton offside call being an obvious example of putting your flag up and getting it badly wrong. This is the EPL. You can talk about spontaneity all you want, but they are factual calls, and you can't be getting those calls wrong.

      Fingers are not used to judge an offside call. Every incident has to be checked. Some are reviewed, and a few decisions from them have to be changed. I hate when we get offside calls against us, but that doesn't mean I hate the system and want to throw it in the bin. I recognise that it is needed to get the correct decision when there's so much at stake. The recent World Cup qualifiers descended into a complete farce, by all the wrong decisions allowed to stand, with no technology available.

      Communication is the major drawback with it atm. It's better than it was but it's still awful, and doesn't help to sell the product to fans players or coaches. And I appreciate it's not always in this language, but even a 10 second delay in broadcasting it, as in e.g. Formula 1 races, would be better than what there is atm. It will happen eventually, and it can't come soon enough.
      UncleBob
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #347: Apr 14, 2021 12:22:02 am
      We can see when the ball was played because the replay is paused when the ball is released. A linesman can't do that unless it's right in front of him. The rest of the time he has 5-10-15 players blocking his view, so he usually puts his flag up and hopes he's right. The West Brom v Southampton offside call being an obvious example of putting your flag up and getting it badly wrong. This is the EPL. You can talk about spontaneity all you want, but they are factual calls, and you can't be getting those calls wrong.

      Fingers are not used to judge an offside call. Every incident has to be checked. Some are reviewed, and a few decisions from them have to be changed. I hate when we get offside calls against us, but that doesn't mean I hate the system and want to throw it in the bin. I recognise that it is needed to get the correct decision when there's so much at stake. The recent World Cup qualifiers descended into a complete farce, by all the wrong decisions allowed to stand, with no technology available.

      Communication is the major drawback with it atm. It's better than it was but it's still awful, and doesn't help to sell the product to fans players or coaches. And I appreciate it's not always in this language, but even a 10 second delay in broadcasting it, as in e.g. Formula 1 races, would be better than what there is atm. It will happen eventually, and it can't come soon enough.

      Not for me. Not yet.
      It doesn’t matter if it’s the epl. The stakes for a non league team getting promoted to the football league is just as high for them as it is for a premier league club to finish top 4.

      The offside VAR needs to have a thicker line. These calls that take several minutes to decide and even then it’s dubious should be allowed to stand.

      Jotas arm was millimetres offside apparently. Same as the wolves goal. And if you look at the image when the frame is frozen, the ball has left the players foot and is blurry. They can’t be sure that that was the exact millisecond it left his foot, it may have been just slightly earlier which could have made the wolves player onside. Benefit of doubt needs to be given.

      As for linesman; they should have zero responsibility for offside now. Let them just decide if the ball has gone out of play. Although they get that wrong as well.

      VAR will get better. It has to. I’m sure in the future it’ll be swift and efficient. But at the minute it’s like a Commodore 64.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #348: Apr 19, 2021 01:40:43 pm
      Quote from UncleBob
      Not for me. Not yet.
      It doesn’t matter if it’s the epl. The stakes for a non league team getting promoted to the football league is just as high for them as it is for a premier league club to finish top 4.

      The offside VAR needs to have a thicker line. These calls that take several minutes to decide and even then it’s dubious should be allowed to stand.

      Jotas arm was millimetres offside apparently. Same as the wolves goal. And if you look at the image when the frame is frozen, the ball has left the players foot and is blurry. They can’t be sure that that was the exact millisecond it left his foot, it may have been just slightly earlier which could have made the wolves player onside. Benefit of doubt needs to be given.

      There is no doubt about offside, so there's no benefit to give. And nobody here was saying the forward should get the benefit of the doubt when Leicester scored against us, were they? But the linesman got that call wrong again. You can't guarantee that linesman can make these decisions with 100% accuracy, hence why they don't put the flag up and let VAR sort it out. And they're also happy to do that. Like referees, they don't want to get their decision wrong and be in the headlines.

      If you trust GLT to determine to the millimetre whether all of a ball crossed the line or not, you should also trust when the offside frame is paused, that it is accurate. It is far more trustworthy than relying on a linesman's flag. The time lost during a review is given back in injury time.

      Yes, its true that the stakes for lower league clubs are high, and they should also have VAR. In Germany and Spain, they already do. But the financial reward is considerably lower compared to our league, and there's no European qualifying spots to play for. So if there has to be a priority, then our league is the one that should and is, given higher priority. VAR shows every single week why it's needed, and there are far less than the 114 major errors the average season would have without it.
      saille29
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #349: Apr 24, 2021 08:08:41 pm
      So 2 games today so far & us v barcodes main talking point is VAR ffs, ironically it went in our favour for a change but it was a shocking decision which luckily will change next year. Also in the same game Jota got assaulted but the ref didn't see it but VAR to the rescue, yellow card ?
      West Ham v chelski, Balbuena clears the ball no problems but alas he has to put his foot down due to gravity & wouldn't you know it Chilwell also can't alter the laws of motion & as world's collide contact is made, the same as every game in history! Enter VAR slow mo, that looks bad if you blue screen it on a Bruce Lee movie send him off
      Get a panel of 3 people preferably consisting of ex pros who have half a brain regarding these kind of decisions

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