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      VAR has to go

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      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #460: Apr 08, 2023 01:35:10 pm
      Well said Sean Dyche. Claims Kane went down with "broken eyelash"...."millions of kids see footballers (England Captain) cheating and diving..and no one says a word"........spot on..a cheats a cheat no matter who he is. The media skirted over it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTrMrKb-HkY&ab_channel=SPORTSEXTRA

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCWV9CmM05M&ab_channel=%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1Tv

      Just 2 dives recently...What an example to set....no wonder Mancheater United want to sign him..

      Shouldn’t worry about youngsters copying Kane.
      They just need to look at his trophy cabinet to see where it’s got him.
      And if he opens it, be sure they don’t have an asthma attack when all the dust goes airborn.

      He has to be one of the dirtiest, diving cheats in the prem, and gets away with it cos he’s Southgate’s love child.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #461: Apr 08, 2023 01:54:13 pm
      The offside under VAR is about as good as it gets. You can't turn it into some kind of photographic forensic post mortem. So that's where it's at. Goal line tech fine.

      The main issue with VAR are penalties and red cards. But you can't send the ref over to the monitor every time. It's basically just an extension of referring. But at the end of season '21 clubs agreed to increased use of monitor.  Almost all goal, penalty,red cards,mistaken identity decisions that are in doubt lead the ref to the monitor.

      The on field ref refers almost every penalty appeal to the ref and it's only the questionable ones that VAR send the ref to the monitor. This is mostly where the controversy lies. Penalty or hand ball shout and VAR doesn't overrule the Ref....result claims of bias.

      Fact is no matter what way you cut it at some point the final decision will be made by a human being..(untill AI takes over the planet)....and that's that.
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #462: Apr 08, 2023 02:29:20 pm
      The offside under VAR is about as good as it gets. You can't turn it into some kind of photographic forensic post mortem. So that's where it's at. Goal line tech fine.

      The main issue with VAR are penalties and red cards. But you can't send the ref over to the monitor every time. It's basically just an extension of referring. But at the end of season '21 clubs agreed to increased use of monitor.  Almost all goal, penalty,red cards,mistaken identity decisions that are in doubt lead the ref to the monitor.

      The on field ref refers almost every penalty appeal to the ref and it's only the questionable ones that VAR send the ref to the monitor. This is mostly where the controversy lies. Penalty or hand ball shout and VAR doesn't overrule the Ref....result claims of bias.

      Fact is no matter what way you cut it at some point the final decision will be made by a human being..(untill AI takes over the planet)....and that's that.





      Agree with most of that, however it’s been said a Million times already….there is nothing wrong with the system itself it’s the f***in morons who use it, the morons in question have never kicked a ball in anger so have no real understanding of the emotions involved, it’s a bit like playing FIFA, to them it’s a video game, their decisions are bewildering because like I said they do not understand, until the powers at be involve ex players, ex managers and a referee not under the influence of the PGMOL, we will never have parity,

      It works perfectly well in other sports, so why has football in the UK got so many issues, can’t be the system can it, so only one place else to point the finger at ??
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #463: Apr 08, 2023 02:46:47 pm




      Agree with most of that, however it’s been said a Million times already….there is nothing wrong with the system itself it’s the f***in morons who use it, the morons in question have never kicked a ball in anger so have no real understanding of the emotions involved, it’s a bit like playing FIFA, to them it’s a video game, their decisions are bewildering because like I said they do not understand, until the powers at be involve ex players, ex managers and a referee not under the influence of the PGMOL, we will never have parity,

      It works perfectly well in other sports, so why has football in the UK got so many issues, can’t be the system can it, so only one place else to point the finger at ??
      I wonder who are the moron's you're talking about?...The VAR officials, or the referees's. VAR officials don't make any decisions, they just provide evidence of a specific issue. It's down to the ref to make the final judgement.  My point was the picture given to the ref is too arbitrary, and too open to interpretation. If, all decisions are solely with the ref ( which is right)...then you might as well ditch VAR altogether and trust the on pitch officials to make the call between them.
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #464: Apr 08, 2023 03:27:14 pm
      I wonder who are the moron's you're talking about?...The VAR officials, or the referees's. VAR officials don't make any decisions, they just provide evidence of a specific issue. It's down to the ref to make the final judgement.  My point was the picture given to the ref is too arbitrary, and too open to interpretation. If, all decisions are solely with the ref ( which is right)...then you might as well ditch VAR altogether and trust the on pitch officials to make the call between them.



      Has to be the PGMOL influence then, the Refs all look after each other whether they are the VAR or the Ref on the pitch, they all come under the control of the PGMOL, the buck stops with them and their interpretation, something is definitely amiss when other sports that use a Video assistant Ref use the system with virtually no issues??

      YNWA
      Fabio Aurelio
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #465: Apr 08, 2023 05:13:33 pm
      The people in control of VAR were poor in the Spurs vs Brighton game today. Brighton should have had a penalty and the two goals they had ruled out were debatable. The penalty decision was a joke.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #466: Apr 08, 2023 07:03:23 pm
      The people in control of VAR were poor in the Spurs vs Brighton game today. Brighton should have had a penalty and the two goals they had ruled out were debatable. The penalty decision was a joke.

      Well "the people" will change but they'll still be people. BTR is right, it's been said a 100 times in this thread but it's still true. People make decisions. And it's obviously not an exact science so mistakes will be made.
      Fabio Aurelio
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #467: Apr 08, 2023 07:24:57 pm
      Well "the people" will change but they'll still be people. BTR is right, it's been said a 100 times in this thread but it's still true. People make decisions. And it's obviously not an exact science so mistakes will be made.
      Just get some competent people and then things will be better (not perfect). I think VAR is the right way to go but the officials in this country absolutely suck and there’s no excuses for some of the incompetence that has been on display since VAR has been introduced. I’m not expecting perfection but it’s insane that Brighton didn’t get a pen.
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #468: Apr 08, 2023 08:09:52 pm
      Just get some competent people and then things will be better (not perfect). I think VAR is the right way to go but the officials in this country absolutely suck and there’s no excuses for some of the incompetence that has been on display since VAR has been introduced. I’m not expecting perfection but it’s insane that Brighton didn’t get a pen.
      Sadly it's not as simple as recruiting competent officials. I don't know how many VAR officials are picking over the bones of a match in play.
      But any group of people charged with making a judgement have to be independent of each other, otherwise they are subject to an informational cascade. This is where an individual follows the behaviour, or decision of the person he has observed, for example the referee, the VAR operator will feel he gains from agreeing, rather than relying on his own judgement. It's a normal human behaviour. His true unbiased decision could only be made if he didn't know the refs decision...which isn't really possible.
      I haven't seen the Brighton incident ...Why didn't the actual ref call it?....Because he's human and he/we all make mistakes.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #469: Apr 09, 2023 06:56:49 am
      clint_call01
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #470: Apr 09, 2023 07:55:57 am




      Agree with most of that, however it’s been said a Million times already….there is nothing wrong with the system itself it’s the f***in morons who use it, the morons in question have never kicked a ball in anger so have no real understanding of the emotions involved, it’s a bit like playing FIFA, to them it’s a video game, their decisions are bewildering because like I said they do not understand, until the powers at be involve ex players, ex managers and a referee not under the influence of the PGMOL, we will never have parity,

      It works perfectly well in other sports, so why has football in the UK got so many issues, can’t be the system can it, so only one place else to point the finger at ??

      Totally agree with your post because VAR is needed but refs should be trained specifically for it not refs doing everything right from refereeing a match and then after all the monitors.

      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #471: Apr 09, 2023 09:18:35 am





      F**k me, after watching that, and no I didn’t see the actual game, so I my thoughts on this are genuine, this for me prove without a shadow that refereeing in the EPL is fu**ed, But guess what, the equally inept PGMOL along with their puppets are not fit for purpose, that footage is the same footage we all see, so why the f**k do they get it so so wrong time and time again, they in that wee box at Stockley park watching the game have to see what the tv cameras show, live, as it happens, in slo mo, recorded, slowed right down frame by frame, like they do in Rugby, so how the f**k do they miss blatant unlawful tackles, feigning injury, dubious hand balls, blatant cheating etc etc WHY CAN’T they see what the rest of us see, I just cannot fathom it out at all, we’re all watching the same f**king incidents,

      My only thoughts are that the PGMOL know that time is running out for them because they know they cannot overrule the tv cameras, before we all just had to judge the on field refs decision right or wrong and get on with it, but now with all the technology at hand, it’s more controversial than ever, and that cannot be right, so, given that the referee’s need help because the game is faster, players are fitter, have longer endurance etc etc, but what of the refs themselves, they obviously have to fit certain fitness criteria themselves but is it of a standard that matches those of the players, me thinks not,

      and there lie’s another part of the problem, I think ditching VAR is a no no, it’s here to stay, for me it’s obvious, the system is fine, VAR operators are fine, as pointed out by Longy, so we either employ younger fitter referee’s to match the athletes on the pitch, or find a more competent body other than the PGMOL to oversee proceedings at Stockley Park,

      You don’t need to be Sherlock f***in Holmes’s to work out what’s going on here, the PGMOL are akin to our useless government, they like to control everything they are the equivalent of the school bully, we will use VAR as and how we wish, so long as we can control the lab rats they send to operate the system!!!



      YNWA
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #472: Apr 09, 2023 12:00:14 pm




      F**k me, after watching that, and no I didn’t see the actual game, so I my thoughts on this are genuine, this for me prove without a shadow that refereeing in the EPL is fu**ed, But guess what, the equally inept PGMOL along with their puppets are not fit for purpose, that footage is the same footage we all see, so why the f**k do they get it so so wrong time and time again, they in that wee box at Stockley park watching the game have to see what the tv cameras show, live, as it happens, in slo mo, recorded, slowed right down frame by frame, like they do in Rugby, so how the f**k do they miss blatant unlawful tackles, feigning injury, dubious hand balls, blatant cheating etc etc WHY CAN’T they see what the rest of us see, I just cannot fathom it out at all, we’re all watching the same f**king incidents,

      My only thoughts are that the PGMOL know that time is running out for them because they know they cannot overrule the tv cameras, before we all just had to judge the on field refs decision right or wrong and get on with it, but now with all the technology at hand, it’s more controversial than ever, and that cannot be right, so, given that the referee’s need help because the game is faster, players are fitter, have longer endurance etc etc, but what of the refs themselves, they obviously have to fit certain fitness criteria themselves but is it of a standard that matches those of the players, me thinks not,

      and there lie’s another part of the problem, I think ditching VAR is a no no, it’s here to stay, for me it’s obvious, the system is fine, VAR operators are fine, as pointed out by Longy, so we either employ younger fitter referee’s to match the athletes on the pitch, or find a more competent body other than the PGMOL to oversee proceedings at Stockley Park,

      You don’t need to be Sherlock f***in Holmes’s to work out what’s going on here, the PGMOL are akin to our useless government, they like to control everything they are the equivalent of the school bully, we will use VAR as and how we wish, so long as we can control the lab rats they send to operate the system!!!



      YNWA
      Still haven't seen the Brighton incidents but it's been acknowledged as a error by PGMOL. Either ALL claims for a penalty should be reviewed by VAR, or NONE should be reviewed by VAR.....otherwise the decision to review or not will always be controversial and lead to mistakes.
      If we accept that the Boss of the game is the ref, then the VAR officials are his underlings, and as such they have a natural fear to overrule him.
      They are not brave enough to make the call, in fear that they might get it wrong, especially if the ref has already called it. Leaving the decision whether to check an incident or not with the VAR operator will always be subject to bias (Probably subconsciously). This is why the so called big teams get favourable outcomes....and why Spurs won the game and not Brighton.
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #473: Apr 09, 2023 02:38:37 pm
      Still haven't seen the Brighton incidents but it's been acknowledged as a error by PGMOL. Either ALL claims for a penalty should be reviewed by VAR, or NONE should be reviewed by VAR.....otherwise the decision to review or not will always be controversial and lead to mistakes.
      If we accept that the Boss of the game is the ref, then the VAR officials are his underlings, and as such they have a natural fear to overrule him.
      They are not brave enough to make the call, in fear that they might get it wrong, especially if the ref has already called it. Leaving the decision whether to check an incident or not with the VAR operator will always be subject to bias (Probably subconsciously). This is why the so called big teams get favourable outcomes....and why Spurs won the game and not Brighton.



      The bottom paragraph is the crux, the VAR & the on field Referee should be working in tandem as they do in rugby, Union & League, alas this it’s NOT the case in football because the PGMOL want total control, this is why a independent body should be employed in harmony with VAR as a one size fits all system that provides clarity & total fairness, alongside this, I would be in favour of using referee’s from across all of Europe instead of a home grown referee which would eliminate any prejudice, ie: Taylor being from Greater Manchester yet is allowed to ref games involving both Manchester clubs,

      I’d also be in favour of refs being miked up so they can communicate with the VAR again as they do in Rugby, and immediately have the ability to let the crowd know what has happened and the reason for a particular decision being made, plus the footage shown on the big screens around the ground so fans are more involved too, it’s not rocket science is it, it works perfectly well in other sports, as we all know,

      The reason it doesn’t work at the moment is because it’s been implemented half arsed, and that is purely down to the nobheads that are the PGMOL!!!


      YNWA
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #474: Apr 09, 2023 03:16:30 pm
      The no pen for the foul on Mitoma and the disallowed Welbeck goal were a joke. Brighton not only didn't deserve to lose, they deserved to win and that was all to do with the ref and VAR. Bell ends!
      stuey
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #475: Apr 09, 2023 03:33:10 pm


      The bottom paragraph is the crux, the VAR & the on field Referee should be working in tandem as they do in rugby, Union & League, alas this it’s NOT the case in football because the PGMOL want total control, this is why a independent body should be employed in harmony with VAR as a one size fits all system that provides clarity & total fairness, alongside this, I would be in favour of using referee’s from across all of Europe instead of a home grown referee which would eliminate any prejudice, ie: Taylor being from Greater Manchester yet is allowed to ref games involving both Manchester clubs,

      I’d also be in favour of refs being miked up so they can communicate with the VAR again as they do in Rugby, and immediately have the ability to let the crowd know what has happened and the reason for a particular decision being made, plus the footage shown on the big screens around the ground so fans are more involved too, it’s not rocket science is it, it works perfectly well in other sports, as we all know,

      The reason it doesn’t work at the moment is because it’s been implemented half arsed, and that is purely down to the nobheads that are the PGMOL!!!


      YNWA


      There's a reason VAR and the ref don't work in tandem and it's fully intentional!
      The FA will not surrender their ultimate power to control football - any suggestion of that nature is chiselled away so the old boys network has the last word.

      VAR is no better example and the Spurs Brighton game displayed how cock-eyed the present set up is, only the FA could allow such cheating to be validated.

      The disallowed goal for handball was one of the refs woeful oversights, the world and his wife could see on VAR the ball glanced off his upper arm - nearer to his shoulder than his elbow. Nobby looked at the screen and gave a goalkick!?!

      Still f**king amazed at the decisions in that game and even more amazed people want to scrap VAR!
      UncleBob
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #476: Apr 09, 2023 07:16:05 pm
      I wonder what the procedure is when it’s the match official who elbows a player?

      I’m not saying it’s a big thing but if a player did that to a referee he would be banned for months.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #477: Apr 10, 2023 02:39:51 pm
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #478: Apr 10, 2023 03:45:16 pm
      Spurs v Brighton. Some of the worst VAR 'decisions' ever. Could even argue that the game should be replayed. Kane is a disgrace.
      sore monad
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #479: Apr 10, 2023 08:13:54 pm
      Spurs v Brighton. Some of the worst VAR 'decisions' ever. Could even argue that the game should be replayed. Kane is a disgrace.

      Yeah, absolute robbery on Brighton by the officials in that one. Decision after decision. Kane gets away with murder. F**k knows what it'll be like if he goes to ManU!
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #480: Apr 10, 2023 08:22:17 pm
      Yeah, absolute robbery on Brighton by the officials in that one. Decision after decision. Kane gets away with murder. F**k knows what it'll be like if he goes to ManU!

      Will be even better coz you lot will hate him even more.  :lmao:
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #481: Apr 11, 2023 08:13:21 am
      Will be even better coz you lot will hate him even more.  :lmao:



      And you lot can get back to the shenanigans that Ferguson advocated in his tenure, shenanigans other club’s fans hated your lot for to this day, shame really cos the football played was very good, hurts me to say that but it’s a fact, however, some of the antics involved and got away with left a sour taste,

      And as a bit of retribution I’ll remind everyone on these boards how MUtants were a simple mediocre mid table entity before Fergie sat his fat arse in the dugout, and when the purple faced old cnut retired that’s exactly where you’re lot went back to, for balance tho you have somewhat recovered slightly under the Walter White lookalike and that is ‘Breaking’ Bad !!

      YNWA

      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #482: Apr 11, 2023 08:34:46 am


      And you lot can get back to the shenanigans that Ferguson advocated in his tenure, shenanigans other club’s fans hated your lot for to this day, shame really cos the football played was very good, hurts me to say that but it’s a fact, however, some of the antics involved and got away with left a sour taste,

      And as a bit of retribution I’ll remind everyone on these boards how MUtants were a simple mediocre mid table entity before Fergie sat his fat arse in the dugout, and when the purple faced old cnut retired that’s exactly where you’re lot went back to, for balance tho you have somewhat recovered slightly under the Walter White lookalike and that is ‘Breaking’ Bad !!

      YNWA



      We were all mediocre at some stage even you lot! You just got there before us but we caught up under the greatest manager who’s won more trophies than anyone else in the football league / Premier league. Shanks comes a close second though.

      What antics left a sour taste?

      Judging on recent form you’ve now become a mid table team.  ;D Sadly that won’t last though under Klopp. He will get you fcukers playing again providing those Yanks spend their bulging pockets.

      Peace out. COYR.

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