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      VAR has to go

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      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #69: Oct 25, 2020 01:39:44 pm
      You are a cricket fan, I believe. If that's the case, I'm sure you're aware of how much scrutiny and detail with technology the third umpire goes into, dealing with reviews for no balls, lbw infra red/snicko technology, run outs, and debatable catches. They have to make black and white decisions, and surprise surprise everyone accepts whatever his decision is. Players, coaches, fans, media. In some of the more complicated calls, 5 minute long reviews to make decisions, are not uncommon.

      Our version of that is onside and offside, and sometimes it comes down to millimetres, so the lines have to be drawn up. As in cricket and other sports, whatever the VAR decision is should be instantly accepted as correct, not be taken as corruption. These are professional referees, many with 15-20 years experience at the top level. They're there to apply the laws of the game as they stand, not as you want them to be. All their conversations with the ref on the field are recorded, and assessed after the game. All the checks done and decisions taken are based on the video footage. You may not agree with their decision, but there's zero possibility of them making it based on upbringing or prejudice, or what part of the country the city is in. Before VAR, a ref on the field could give any decision he wanted about any incident, and give any reason to justify it, true or false. He no longer has that option.

      Gutted as I was with the decisions against us last week, especially the disallowed goal, I have seen the evidence why they were made, so I can live with it. I always said I would accept any decision against me if it was correct. That hasn't changed. It may only have been millimetres, but millimetres matter when the prizes are handed out at the end of the season.

      Explain yesterdays F**k up as I cannot accept what I saw. It's becoming a F***ing joke. No way was their a foul by Fab. And it's now two F***ing occassions one after another were they are claiming VAR hasn't properly looked at the video evidence correctly.

      It's a F***ing joke, the majority of match going fans think it's a F***ing joke, the majority of this forum think it's a joke yet still you defend it to the hilt.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #70: Oct 25, 2020 01:41:47 pm
      The technology is fine, it’s just the muppets making the decisions. Offside should flag anything clear that’s been missed (e.g. Mo’s goal today). Anything dubious or inline should be based on ref/linesman’s real time decision. As for the rest of the stupid decisions, it should just be another tool for the ref. Anything contentious mandate going over to the screen or pull an iPad out his jacksie to review the replay, make a call and move on. Then everything is still on his head, as it always used to be.

      How can it be if they are not even making the correct decisions. If the technology is fine, how the F**k is a pen given against us for a fair and legit challenge by Fab?
      JD
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #71: Oct 25, 2020 02:19:45 pm

      The 'technology' is simply the ability to rewind events in the game and access all the cameras at slow motion.  It's the rules of the game and the idiots they've got at Stockley Park that's ruining it.

      Much more pitchside review from on the field referee's required.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #72: Oct 25, 2020 02:30:17 pm
      The 'technology' is simply the ability to rewind events in the game and access all the cameras at slow motion.  It's the rules of the game and the idiots they've got at Stockley Park that's ruining it.

      Much more pitchside review from on the field referee's required.

      And yet the divvies can't even do that correctly. How many replays do the tv companies use, all of them showed Fab made a good challenge. So what were the divvies at Stockley Park viewing? Frigging Strictly!!
      JD
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #73: Oct 25, 2020 02:38:10 pm
      So what were the divvies at Stockley Park viewing?

      Looked like they were looking for the most ambiguous angle to call it a penalty!

      First replay they showed live on the tele I could see it wasn't a foul!
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #74: Oct 25, 2020 02:38:23 pm
      Much more pitchside review from on the field referee's required.

      100% this.

      It takes out the fear of the referees overrulling each other which seems to be a big issue for them and their fragile egos.

      Like you say I'd like to see a lot more of the VAR ref asking the match ref review if he thinks there is a mistake. Let the match official have another look and if he still thinks it's ok then on his head be the decision.
      JD
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #75: Oct 25, 2020 02:39:48 pm
      It takes out the fear of the referees overrulling each other which seems to be a big issue for them and their fragile egos.

      Spot on that.  That's exactly the problem.  'If you overrule me then I'll overrule you next week' attitude.
      RC9
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #76: Oct 25, 2020 04:49:31 pm
      Personally do not see an issue with VAR technically speaking.

      But I as an "armchair" fan not being able to go to every game can only comment so far, but with that in mind here are my two cents on the matter and it's fairly simple in my opinion.

      The core issue is not VAR it is the fact that VAR has actually put officials under the microscope as their margin of error should now be reduced, they should be able to get 99.9% of decisions right with this in place. However, what it has done has only magnified the poor quality of officials in the English game, who either 1. Don't have the balls to make the right decisions or 2. Do not have the knowledge to make the right decision.

      Listening to Carragher on the subject was quite interesting, a suggestion he had made is getting the ex refs back involved, those who have already earned their stripes and would not think twice about overruling the match ref, this to me eliminates the fear of overruling someone superior to you and ensures that we have the best of the best making the vital decisions.

      The taking away the soul of football argument with having to delay celebrations etc. is a whole other debate.
      bigbob75
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #77: Oct 26, 2020 11:22:35 am
      It’s bullshit and is ruining the game. It’s used far too much as well. If they insist on keeping it then should only be used for big decisions and clear obvious ones, a lot quicker also.

      It’s different for American football and cricket as they are a lot more stop start and can naturally be used in between downs and deliveries.

      Was 100% better without it and should only be used at old Trafford for the outrageous cheating that goes on there 😉
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #78: Oct 26, 2020 01:57:42 pm
      Quote from JD
      Spot on that.  That's exactly the problem.  'If you overrule me then I'll overrule you next week' attitude.

      Oliver and Coote overruled each other over offside goals in the games they had last week.

      Quote from HUYTON RED
      Explain yesterdays F**k up as I cannot accept what I saw. It's becoming a F***ing joke. No way was their a foul by Fab. And it's now two F***ing occassions one after another were they are claiming VAR hasn't properly looked at the video evidence correctly.

      It's a F***ing joke, the majority of match going fans think it's a F***ing joke, the majority of this forum think it's a joke yet still you defend it to the hilt.

      You're essentially saying the forward dived. I don't think he did. Dean gave free kicks for similar challenges during the game, and he gave a free kick for this. Marriner simply told Dean that it was on the line, therefore it was a penalty. I can't prove that it wasn't on the line tbh. We won the game anyway, so it doesn't really matter much now.

      As I said last week, none of us are matchgoers atm, and fans should not be segregated by "matchgoers" and "non matchgoers". Some people have told me that when I am at a VAR game, that I will feel different. I can guarantee them I won't. I'm well aware that I am at a game with VAR in operation, so I will wait as long as I need to wait, knowing that the right decision was made.

      Quote from AussieRed
      When Mo's disallowed goal went in, I didn't even celebrate but I was still in awe!! Just F***ing WOW!!!!

      How do you get to celebrate anything at all at 7.30am on a Sunday morning?

      If I have to go out to watch a game, (which thankfully isn't very often these days) my celebrations rarely last as far as the first replay. And that's for goals that count, let alone those that don't.

      It looked offside so I said fair enough, we go again. Two minutes later, we won the game with a valid goal. That was enough.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #79: Oct 26, 2020 03:13:02 pm
      ^ I can’t tell if he’s being serious or found a character that gives him relevance on a forum and is playing up to it...
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #80: Oct 26, 2020 06:07:40 pm
      Not that I’m worried, but I suppose I should be for footballs Sake.
      I wonder what cock ups var is Gonna make tonight, that could be instrumental in a clubs relegation at the end of the season. 😤🤬
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #81: Oct 26, 2020 07:52:50 pm
      You're essentially saying the forward dived. I don't think he did. Dean gave free kicks for similar challenges during the game, and he gave a free kick for this. Marriner simply told Dean that it was on the line, therefore it was a penalty. I can't prove that it wasn't on the line tbh. We won the game anyway, so it doesn't really matter much now.

      As I said last week, none of us are matchgoers atm, and fans should not be segregated by "matchgoers" and "non matchgoers". Some people have told me that when I am at a VAR game, that I will feel different. I can guarantee them I won't. I'm well aware that I am at a game with VAR in operation, so I will wait as long as I need to wait, knowing that the right decision was made.



      Good for you, still doesn't make what you say right.
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #82: Oct 27, 2020 11:28:16 pm


      How do you get to celebrate anything at all at 7.30am on a Sunday morning?



      It's Liverpool FC, enough said!
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #83: Oct 28, 2020 09:02:50 am

      Odd comment by him that I thought, doesn't matter what time it is if you have passion and are sucked in by the adrenaline of the moment and occasion

      But that's exactly what VAR sucks out of the game so maybe that's why he doesnt get how you can be passionate when he loves the ideal of VAR over the colour and imperfections of life and football
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #84: Oct 28, 2020 11:50:47 pm
      I thought it was too mate, I'm ready and pumped as soon as they are in the Tunnel!
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #85: Oct 29, 2020 03:58:42 pm
      Quote from Kopite78
      Odd comment by him that I thought, doesn't matter what time it is if you have passion and are sucked in by the adrenaline of the moment and occasion

      But that's exactly what VAR sucks out of the game so maybe that's why he doesnt get how you can be passionate when he loves the ideal of VAR over the colour and imperfections of life and football

      Maybe it's just me, but I thought it would be a statement of the obvious that it would be easier to celebrate at 3 in the afternoon or 9 at night, than 7am on a Sunday morning. I know it's not his fault that he lives in a part of the world that is now 11 hours ahead of Anfield time, and it wasn't to have a go at him.

      You still seem to be unaware that VAR is now a permanent part of the game. I don't know what you're going to do in that case, because we're not going back to the dark ages where goals stand that shouldn't or vice versa, you can win a penalty for free, and you can be sent off for an incident that you have absolutely nothing to do with. We might have to wait a little bit longer than we used to for confirmation, but we score 100+ goals every season at home and abroad, and the overwhelming majority pass the routine VAR check. As long as it is a valid goal according to the laws of the game, there is no problem.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #86: Nov 06, 2020 09:46:06 pm
      Another ridiculous decision in the Southampton game today, how they didn’t give a penalty for the challenge on Walcott I’ll never know, even after review....
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #87: Nov 07, 2020 12:07:37 pm
      Another ridiculous decision in the Southampton game today, how they didn’t give a penalty for the challenge on Walcott I’ll never know, even after review....

      Tricky one.  I saw it from one angle and it was a stonewall penno, then I saw it from another and Lascelles plays the ball first onto Walcott's shin.  That's probably why they didn't give it, but often you see fouls given elsewhere on the pitch, where a player takes the ball and then the man.
      Another grey area in the rules!

      Like when is a handball not a handball?  No idea on that one!   :f_steam:
      Like when is a dive worth a booking and when is it worth a penalty because he 'felt contact'?     :mad:
      Like obstruction - back into a player to stop him getting it when in the centre circle and its a foul every time.  Do the same thing when you're shepherding it out for a goal kick and its 'good defending!'  Funny old game?!    ???
      ToshackKeeganOneNil
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #88: Nov 14, 2020 12:48:09 pm
      For me VAR is not the problem although I'd prefer it had never been introduced. It's the poor standard of referee monitoring it and making awful decisions week in week out and the ridiculous parameters they use. As usual common sense has been left behind.
      billythered
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #89: Nov 14, 2020 09:12:24 pm
      For me VAR is not the problem although I'd prefer it had never been introduced. It's the poor standard of referee monitoring it and making awful decisions week in week out and the ridiculous parameters they use. As usual common sense has been left behind.





      Another way of look at it is if VAR referees stopped looking after the on pitch referees, their mates, instead of making the right and fairest decisions, what Var was designed for, then all the bullshit will end, simple as,
      Other sports use VAR/TMO perfectly and come up with the fairest outcomes every f***in time, but yet football can’t, why ?  the technology is there to be used, it’s not there to be abused, and to bend it so it suits their warped agenda’s.



                                                                                    Y  N  W  A
      ToshackKeeganOneNil
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #90: Nov 15, 2020 04:15:19 pm




      Another way of look at it is if VAR referees stopped looking after the on pitch referees, their mates, instead of making the right and fairest decisions, what Var was designed for, then all the bullshit will end, simple as,
      Other sports use VAR/TMO perfectly and come up with the fairest outcomes every f***in time, but yet football can’t, why ?  the technology is there to be used, it’s not there to be abused, and to bend it so it suits their warped agenda’s.



                                                                                    Y  N  W  A

      Actually Billy I think you nailed it with the bit i put in bold.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #91: Nov 17, 2020 08:51:58 am
      Quote from ToshackKeeganOneNil
      For me VAR is not the problem although I'd prefer it had never been introduced. It's the poor standard of referee monitoring it and making awful decisions week in week out and the ridiculous parameters they use.

      I would have preferred it if we had VAR available in Kiev, and many other nights down the years. When I look back on them, it's easy to be upset, and much harder to understand the opposition to it.

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