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      VAR has to go

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      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #368: Jun 05, 2021 02:31:53 pm
      There's no "if". It's here. Every goal must be checked, but the vast majority stand. In the past 2 seasons, almost all our goals that didn't stand were for offside. We had just one red card, a straight red for Allison for handball outside the area. We had a goal given by VAR, because of a shoulder. Before VAR, it would be ruled out for a non existent handball, and we would have dropped two points.

      The official Premier League stats say so. 15% of wrong decisions without VAR, means a lot of them in other leagues, and a lot of upset players/staff/management. I'm sure they would have preferred to wait a minute or two longer to get the correct decision. Mistakes ruin the game, as they always have done.

      If you have a system available where you can get 97% correct decisions, over a notorious  error prone method that gets just 85% correct, then it shouldn't take too long to decide what you should go with.

      Stats can be used to prove anything.

      Take a quick poll now from the footballing support in the Premier League alone the majority would tell you VAR is f**king crap and destroying the passion most of us love the game for.
      PolarBearRed
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #369: Jun 05, 2021 04:11:32 pm
      Unpopular opinion.

      I think VAR was noticeably better in the second half of this season than it was last season and the first half of this season. The calls are treated quicker (not all the time but most of the time) and the refs are invited to go and check it for themselves on the monitor more often. However, the problems remain the same and they are, as far as I'm concerned, more related to stupid rules and how the refs are told they have to apply them than VAR itself.

      The armpit hair offsides are a joke and the rule should be changed or the VAR officials should be given different instructions in terms of how the rule is interpreted. Same goes for the handballs (although I feel like I've seen less of those recently). 

      Realistically, I don't see FIFA, UEFA or the leagues backtracking on VAR and so it is here to stay. I think the rules and/or their interpretations should be changed in a way to make VAR a smoother and less ridiculous experience.
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #370: Jun 05, 2021 06:14:24 pm
      Unpopular opinion.

      I think VAR was noticeably better in the second half of this season than it was last season and the first half of this season. The calls are treated quicker (not all the time but most of the time) and the refs are invited to go and check it for themselves on the monitor more often. However, the problems remain the same and they are, as far as I'm concerned, more related to stupid rules and how the refs are told they have to apply them than VAR itself.

      The armpit hair offsides are a joke and the rule should be changed or the VAR officials should be given different instructions in terms of how the rule is interpreted. Same goes for the handballs (although I feel like I've seen less of those recently). 

      Realistically, I don't see FIFA, UEFA or the leagues backtracking on VAR and so it is here to stay. I think the rules and/or their interpretations should be changed in a way to make VAR a smoother and less ridiculous experience.

      A simple answer to the armpit hair offsides is, the lines drawn across the pitch to determine THE STRIKERS POSITION, could be made wider so theres a bit of flexibility. That would go along with the 'if they are in line, they are onside'. Toes, elbows, armpit hair, half a knee, a slice of shoulder. These minute differences could be given the benefit of the doubt if that line was scaled to be 100mm wide. Anything over that would be unchallenged as there would be a clear margin. 3mm off side is a joke.
      David Wright
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #371: Jun 05, 2021 10:33:46 pm
      Simply bin VAR !
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #372: Jun 08, 2021 03:59:37 pm
      Quote from ToshackKeeganOneNil
      The technology is not fit for purpose as it stands. Camera speeds too slow to truly and accurately capture offsides. However the main issue for me is the muppets controlling it. They're clueless on the pitch so why should that change when in a padded cell with lot's of screens? I think the incident that most annoyed me was Brighton's late, late penalty at their gaff. How many times after that did you see them intruding into play in that fashion?

      They're not there to intrude into play, they're there to step in when the ref on the pitch has missed something, or in the case of offside, given the wrong decision. At the rate of 1 intervention every 2.9 league games, they only step in when they have to.

      It gives me no joy to say it but the incident you speak of, was a penalty. I've only ever heard LFC fans object to it which I fully understand, but once a ref sees that, a penalty will be given on any pitch any day of the week. When the ref hasn't seen it at the time, the VAR then has a job to do. Sure I was disappointed with it, but when you know the rules, then you can't argue with the decision.

      Quote from HUYTON RED
      Stats can be used to prove anything.

      Take a quick poll now from the footballing support in the Premier League alone the majority would tell you VAR is f**king crap and destroying the passion most of us love the game for.

      That poll has been done as well, but we don't need one to know what they think, plus it's asking the wrong audience. Whether you want it or not, the fact is it's here, it has a job to do and it's making a difference. The PGMOL/PL stats are ultimately what matter. 97% v 85% correct decisions show that VAR is essential, so that every goal and every point won is on merit, and that you're not robbed of a result by a clear and obvious case of human error.

      Quote from L4.19Times
      Shouldn’t should it, in fact it didn’t, I decided ages ago and very, very quickly

      I’ll go with the passion and release that football has always been
      Not a robotic boring interpretation that var is

      It’s sh*te, f**k it off

      Well the last part can't happen so it's pointless you and others saying so.

      In the South American WCQ, VAR is being used to help determine who qualifies and who doesn't. In the European ones, there is no technology used at all, which results in outrageous injustices such as in Serbia v Portugal so far, with more of them on the way.

      Last year, we had to go to Shrewsbury in the cup. 2-0 up and managing the game, they get a penalty for a challenge outside the area. That's not passion, that's a disgrace. With no VAR available, they got their penalty, their pitch invasion and their replay. In the replay itself, they score a ghost goal because someone was miles offside in the build up. We had VAR though so it could be disallowed, justice was done, we went on to win it 1-0, and it was panic over.
      L4.19Times
      • Forum Roger Hunt
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #373: Jun 08, 2021 04:06:20 pm
      They're not there to intrude into play, they're there to step in when the ref on the pitch has missed something, or in the case of offside, given the wrong decision. At the rate of 1 intervention every 2.9 league games, they only step in when they have to.

      It gives me no joy to say it but the incident you speak of, was a penalty. I've only ever heard LFC fans object to it which I fully understand, but once a ref sees that, a penalty will be given on any pitch any day of the week. When the ref hasn't seen it at the time, the VAR then has a job to do. Sure I was disappointed with it, but when you know the rules, then you can't argue with the decision.

      That poll has been done as well, but we don't need one to know what they think, plus it's asking the wrong audience. Whether you want it or not, the fact is it's here, it has a job to do and it's making a difference. The PGMOL/PL stats are ultimately what matter. 97% v 85% correct decisions show that VAR is essential, so that every goal and every point won is on merit, and that you're not robbed of a result by a clear and obvious case of human error.

      Well the last part can't happen so it's pointless you and others saying so.

      In the South American WCQ, VAR is being used to help determine who qualifies and who doesn't. In the European ones, there is no technology used at all, which results in outrageous injustices such as in Serbia v Portugal so far, with more of them on the way.

      Last year, we had to go to Shrewsbury in the cup. 2-0 up and managing the game, they get a penalty for a challenge outside the area. That's not passion, that's a disgrace. With no VAR available, they got their penalty, their pitch invasion and their replay. In the replay itself, they score a ghost goal because someone was miles offside in the build up. We had VAR though so it could be disallowed, justice was done, we went on to win it 1-0, and it was panic over.

      It’s sh*te

      Ruining the game

      Simple
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #374: Jul 05, 2021 05:29:08 am
      Come on Del boy yer don't think there is  match fixing going on. The game isn't 100% clean, maybe a player can be got at.But not an entire team. A ref couldn't guarantee a fix, they have power but not the power to force or guarantee a result.

      the Prem is the most transparently fixed professional league i have ever seen
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #375: Jul 05, 2021 01:10:55 pm
      Var should stay, but with foreign officials to replace the inept English ones.
      stuey
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #376: Jul 05, 2021 02:55:18 pm
      In the long term VAR has got to be a positive innovation, having seen some atrocious and obviously faulted refereeing decisions further scrutiny can only be an improvement.

      The some you win some you lose maxim is appropriate when previously the ridiculous decisions at places like Old Twatford would be corrected and shut the screaming gobshites up.
      0112358
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #377: Jul 05, 2021 10:20:34 pm
      VAR destroys the pure joy you feel after a goal because it makes you think ("does it holds, was it offside,..."). VAR was invented to correct gross errors, nothing more.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #378: Jul 05, 2021 10:23:56 pm
      Var should stay, but with foreign officials to replace the inept English ones.

      Exactly. A good workman never blames his tools.
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #379: Jul 05, 2021 11:36:40 pm
      The var performance in the euros with foreign adjudicators has been fine. It’s embarrassing that the only ‘delayed’ var decisions were when the English operators were in action.

      Says  it all really.
      clint_call01
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      • Ynwa... lfc till I die !
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #380: Jul 06, 2021 08:54:28 am
      Consistency is needed, rules refined and then stick to them, good VAR officials are needed too.

      We need to stick with it but they need to improve their standard of work.
      PTU
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #381: Jul 06, 2021 09:26:54 am
      Agree with your whole post Clint, but this is really important for me. Just because someone is a good referee doesn't mean he (or she) will be a good VAR referee. It's a complete different job, so different qualities are needed. They should be trained specifically for it and be judged accordingly.
      clint_call01
      • King Live Match Starter
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      • Ynwa... lfc till I die !
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #382: Jul 06, 2021 10:09:35 am
      Agree with your whole post Clint, but this is really important for me. Just because someone is a good referee doesn't mean he (or she) will be a good VAR referee. It's a complete different job, so different qualities are needed. They should be trained specifically for it and be judged accordingly.

      Totally agree and we need excellent camera angles and people who knows how to use them.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #383: Jul 07, 2021 03:40:35 pm
      Quote from 0112358
      VAR destroys the pure joy you feel after a goal

      So did the linesman's flag before VAR. Now after he puts it up, we can check whether he was right or not. 2 goals have already been given at the Euros, because they put the flag up and got it wrong.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #384: Aug 08, 2021 08:08:35 am
      Have the Premier League announced any changes in the use of VAR this season?

      My biggest thing would be to have ARs go ahead and raise the flag unless it is a total photo finish on an offside call, rather than wait through therest of the sequence, the "goal," the celebration, only to reverse it. I get it if we're talking hair's s breadth stuff, but otherwise would like to see them take more charge of their calls.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #385: Aug 08, 2021 01:22:19 pm
      So did the linesman's flag before VAR. Now after he puts it up, we can check whether he was right or not. 2 goals have already been given at the Euros, because they put the flag up and got it wrong.

      The current directives around offside will get someone injured soon.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #386: Aug 08, 2021 01:41:29 pm
      The current directives around offside will get someone injured soon.

      Yep
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #387: Aug 08, 2021 01:42:14 pm
      Have the Premier League announced any changes in the use of VAR this season?

      My biggest thing would be to have ARs go ahead and raise the flag unless it is a total photo finish on an offside call, rather than wait through therest of the sequence, the "goal," the celebration, only to reverse it. I get it if we're talking hair's s breadth stuff, but otherwise would like to see them take more charge of their calls.

      Thicker lines for offsides so shouldn't be any toe nails offside and they are not going to get involved in contentious penalty calls apparently. So probably a return to the high bar for over turning decisions like the first season it was here. The type we gave away against Brighton for example.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #388: Aug 13, 2021 07:40:41 pm
      Quote from Robby The Z
      Have the Premier League announced any changes in the use of VAR this season?

      My biggest thing would be to have ARs go ahead and raise the flag unless it is a total photo finish on an offside call, rather than wait through therest of the sequence, the "goal," the celebration, only to reverse it. I get it if we're talking hair's s breadth stuff.

      As regards offside flags going up, you play to the whistle not the flag. Even if the flag goes up, it should be remembered that only the referee has the power to stop play. Offsides are rarely obvious to the human eye, and we've seen clearly obvious offsides live look clearly onside on replays, and vice versa. So in terms of applying the rules, I see little change from previous years.

      Quote from fields of anny rd
      Thicker lines for offsides so shouldn't be any toe nails offside and they are not going to get involved in contentious penalty calls apparently. So probably a return to the high bar for over turning decisions like the first season it was here. The type we gave away against Brighton for example.

      That will still be a penalty because it's a foul. Unfortunately it's both clear and obvious, and once it was spotted it had to be given.

      We knew before VAR, that the forward never got the benefit of the doubt with tight offside calls, and we've seen definitive proof of it with VAR. But the offside line has to go somewhere, and we'll still be having the same debates as in previous years.

      After it's successful use at the Olympics, it's now being brought into the remaining WCQ for Europe. Too late to change decisions such as in Serbia v Portugal, but better late than never.

      As we now know that VAR is here to stay, as expected, maybe it's time to either close this thread or merge the two VAR threads together.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #389: Aug 13, 2021 07:54:56 pm
      Oh ffs I haven't missed this VAR bum licker during the Summer...
      GERNS
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      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #390: Aug 13, 2021 09:18:33 pm
      How many times....... Its not V.A.R., ITS THE MUPPETS OPERATING IT.

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