Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      VAR has to go

      Read 46314 times
      0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
      GERNS
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,208 posts | 1503 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #437: Mar 22, 2023 05:09:36 pm
      What I can’t get to grip with is, we have an almost instant replay that shows a player either off or on side. And we all see it, so why does it take the var official 3 or more minutes to make a decision.

      And as they do get almost instant replays of incidents, from numerous angles, when are they gonna call out the divers and fakers. Like rat face for utd when he collapsed holding his face when he was lightly touched across his chest.
      And the dives for free kicks when tackles have made no contact what so ever
      These are the things I think are important to cut from our game
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,318 posts | 1611 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #438: Mar 22, 2023 05:34:19 pm
      What I can’t get to grip with is, we have an almost instant replay that shows a player either off or on side. And we all see it, so why does it take the var official 3 or more minutes to make a decision.

      And as they do get almost instant replays of incidents, from numerous angles, when are they gonna call out the divers and fakers. Like rat face for utd when he collapsed holding his face when he was lightly touched across his chest.
      And the dives for free kicks when tackles have made no contact what so ever
      These are the things I think are important to cut from our game
      Couldn’t agree more , the feigning of injury when it’s blatantly obvious they havnt been touched should be one of the first things looked at and give them a mandatory three game ban their managers would soon stop them doing it , part of the game that really winds me up , also the head injury protocol should be looked at as there are far too m  as my players using it to get games stopped when they think another team may get an advantage , most of them also use the head or face rub looking for the imaginary blood spot their grown men and should be embarrassed but their not .
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #439: Mar 22, 2023 05:59:01 pm
      Couldn’t agree more , the feigning of injury when it’s blatantly obvious they havnt been touched should be one of the first things looked at and give them a mandatory three game ban their managers would soon stop them doing it , part of the game that really winds me up , also the head injury protocol should be looked at as there are far too m  as my players using it to get games stopped when they think another team may get an advantage , most of them also use the head or face rub looking for the imaginary blood spot their grown men and should be embarrassed but their not .

      I mean yes but it's interference again. Offside,hand ball, fouls,penalties and now feigning injury. Feigning injury yes it's a fair point but the FA should step in and do it retrospectively, not during the game.
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,318 posts | 1611 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #440: Mar 22, 2023 06:09:51 pm
      I mean yes but it's interference again. Offside,hand ball, fouls,penalties and now feigning injury. Feigning injury yes it's a fair point but the FA should step in and do it retrospectively, not during the game.

      Agree they should have a panel sat next morning, with all the angles and anyone feigning it gets three games out , managers would soon stop it .
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,833 posts | 701 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #441: Mar 22, 2023 06:30:40 pm
      Quote from 0112358
      VAR destroys one of the most important aspects of the game: the joy after a goal. I am ok with it if it prevents gross non red cards, offsides, penalties but „gross“ would mean 1m offsides, deep yellow fouls in the box or almost martial arts fouls, not the stuff we see today happen to be judged by VAR.

      VAR is a tool of modern business-like football, its not part of the traditional culture.

      It's dragging refereeing into the 21st Century, and  allows refs the same opportunities to see an incident as the rest of us, so he can then make an informed decision based on what happened, instead of a human error because he didn't see it.

      The most important aspect of any game is the score at the final whistle. Therefore the result must reflect what happened. If that's not the case, then the fans there have been cheated and the whole event itself is an expensive waste of time.

      Quote from GERNS
      What I can’t get to grip with is, we have an almost instant replay that shows a player either off or on side. And we all see it, so why does it take the var official 3 or more minutes to make a decision.

      And as they do get almost instant replays of incidents, from numerous angles, when are they gonna call out the divers and fakers. Like rat face for utd when he collapsed holding his face when he was lightly touched across his chest.
      And the dives for free kicks when tackles have made no contact what so ever
      These are the things I think are important to cut from our game

      The VAR can't do anything about it, unless it's a penalty or straight red. The normal length of time to check an offside call is 60-80 seconds, not 180. I can cope. I've seen goal kicks and substitutions take considerably longer.

      Quote from tytusgroan
      I'm old and still think it's a pile of sh*t. I can't deal with all this modern technology stuff. The best thing that's been brought out is Hawkeye. Imo it's definitely destroying the game I  was brought up to love.

      No it isn't. It's delivering justice on the spot, which is what it's supposed to do.

      We lost the 1985 cup final because a penalty was given for a challenge made outside the box. You can argue that it was not important at the time, which is fair enough, but if my team lose a cup game or a title race by a goal or a point, I want to know that it's not because of an offside goal given or a diver winning a penalty, and I'm prepared to wait as long as necessary to see justice done, there and then. 60 seconds or 6 minutes I don't care, because justice is priceless.

      Modern technology makes the world go round, including this forum, and is part of almost every major sport in the world. Football can't be left behind, just because people want to celebrate that 5th goal in the third minute of injury time against Bournemouth (that was miles offside) a bit longer. You can either like it or live with it, but there's only going to be more of it, as we all grow older. 

      Quote from Harrisimo
      Then there's the 'it spoils the spontaneity' of the moment thing. Nobody likes change especially with something that people grew up with. But can't go back now.

      That's the biggest issue for most people. But you can't do very much about that tbh. As in every other major sport, you adapt to the new methods. You celebrate, then you go through the check, then you continue celebrating when it's confirmed. If fans can cope in other sports with it, they can cope in this one. But how long it takes to get used to it, is up to you.
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,973 posts | 666 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #442: Mar 22, 2023 06:35:59 pm
      Agree they should have a panel sat next morning, with all the angles and anyone feigning it gets three games out , managers would soon stop it .
      No not for me...There's already too many things for the officials to adjudicate on. Feigning injury (Cheating) gets on everyone's nerves, but it doesn't happen so often as to justify a whole new panel to oversee it, who would make up the panel....who pays them?. Its' not as if it's every game, often as not the player is shamed in post match coverage.
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,318 posts | 1611 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #443: Mar 22, 2023 07:56:57 pm
      No not for me...There's already too many things for the officials to adjudicate on. Feigning injury (Cheating) gets on everyone's nerves, but it doesn't happen so often as to justify a whole new panel to oversee it, who would make up the panel....who pays them?. Its' not as if it's every game, often as not the player is shamed in post match coverage.
      They have a var review of the game could easily be done then they don’t get shamed that’s why it keeps going on
      GlosGroundhop
      • On Trial

      • 3 posts |
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #444: Mar 26, 2023 08:59:49 pm
      They have a var review of the game could easily be done then they don’t get shamed that’s why it keeps going on

      I think the answer is that there needs to be a limit to how many times it goes to VAR and players choose when it does. For example, if the players only have three opportunities to do so, they’re not going to waste it on an offside that’s by a toenail
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,833 posts | 701 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #445: Mar 28, 2023 03:51:46 pm
      Quote from GlosGroundhop
      I think the answer is that there needs to be a limit to how many times it goes to VAR and players choose when it does. For example, if the players only have three opportunities to do so, they’re not going to waste it on an offside that’s by a toenail

      You can't be offside by a toenail. Nice myth put out there to complain about VAR, but if any part of the forward is offside, then you're offside. Maybe you think a bit of a foot or an arm doesn't matter. But when one goal can be the difference between winning a trophy, qualify for Europe or stay up, then yes it does matter. As Collina said recently, you can use common sense when and only when, it affects nobody. 

      This is a refereeing aid, to be used by officials when the need arises. Players don't get the option to choose when reviews happen. Otherwise, like "head" injuries that happen when they need to do something to break the opponent's momentum, it becomes just another cynical tactic to be used whenever it suits them best.
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,318 posts | 1611 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #446: Mar 28, 2023 04:08:01 pm
      You can't be offside by a toenail. Nice myth put out there to complain about VAR, but if any part of the forward is offside, then you're offside. Maybe you think a bit of a foot or an arm doesn't matter. But when one goal can be the difference between winning a trophy, qualify for Europe or stay up, then yes it does matter. As Collina said recently, you can use common sense when and only when, it affects nobody. 

      This is a refereeing aid, to be used by officials when the need arises. Players don't get the option to choose when reviews happen. Otherwise, like "head" injuries that happen when they need to do something to break the opponent's momentum, it becomes just another cynical tactic to be used whenever it suits them best.
      Don’t you get tired of fckin repeating things
      chats
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,018 posts | 2741 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #447: Mar 28, 2023 04:43:26 pm
      The problem with VAR is that it actually highlights human error even more. When technology was brought into the game, the natural thought was that ‘no mistakes’ would be made and that was the trade off to waiting for a decision and killing the atmosphere at grounds. The reality of course is that incompetent referees still operate the technology so tonnes of errors are still there.

      Yes the most obvious ones get overturned but is it worth it? Is it worth killing the mood whenever a goal goes in? Is it worth ruining the momentum of matches? Or should we just accept referees will get decisions wrong but at least it’s in real time so we can accept them a bit more?

      For me it’s harder to accept these errors with VAR than it was when it was just a referee and his linesmen. Yeah it hurt when Sterling was wrongly flagged at City those years ago or when Suarez had a late winner in the derby ruled out wrongly but they were easier to process than the Rodri handball against Everton last year, the decision not to send Kane off for trying to break Robbo’s leg etc.

      I think the overwhelming theme in all this though is how poor refereeing is right now, all across Europe. How we fix that I have no idea. But until we do I’d rather we scrap VAR (we won’t of course)
      Keith Singleton
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 16,662 posts | 2656 
      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #448: Mar 28, 2023 04:45:34 pm
      Don’t you get tired of fckin repeating things


      You should know that’s what he does best.  :lmao:
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,833 posts | 701 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #449: Mar 30, 2023 12:04:11 pm
      Quote from chats
      The problem with VAR is that it actually highlights human error even more. When technology was brought into the game, the natural thought was that ‘no mistakes’ would be made and that was the trade off to waiting for a decision and killing the atmosphere at grounds. The reality of course is that incompetent referees still operate the technology so tonnes of errors are still there.

      Yes the most obvious ones get overturned but is it worth it? Is it worth killing the mood whenever a goal goes in? Is it worth ruining the momentum of matches? Or should we just accept referees will get decisions wrong but at least it’s in real time so we can accept them a bit more?

      The answers to the questions are;

      Yes it is.
      Yes it is.
      Yes it is.

      It's not killing the mood or ruining the momentum. Pretending to have head injuries kills momentum. Making a sub with 1 minute of injury time remaining kills momentum. VAR is getting the right decision made, by whatever means necessary. 

      Anyone who tells me they accepted refereeing errors before VAR, is not telling the truth, because they didn't accept it. You only have to look back a few weeks ago, to see the outrage when refereeing mistakes on or off the pitch, are allowed to stand. People naturally hate injustice, in whatever form it takes, on or off the field.

      Quote from Keith Singleton
      You should know that’s what he does best.

      And you know that this is what we do better than the rest.

      Liverpool 7-0 mancs
       :lmao:
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,318 posts | 1611 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #450: Apr 01, 2023 12:22:37 pm
      The answers to the questions are;

      Yes it is.
      Yes it is.
      Yes it is.

      It's not killing the mood or ruining the momentum. Pretending to have head injuries kills momentum. Making a sub with 1 minute of injury time remaining kills momentum. VAR is getting the right decision made, by whatever means necessary. 

      Anyone who tells me they accepted refereeing errors before VAR, is not telling the truth, because they didn't accept it. You only have to look back a few weeks ago, to see the outrage when refereeing mistakes on or off the pitch, are allowed to stand. People naturally hate injustice, in whatever form it takes, on or off the field.

      And you know that this is what we do better than the rest.

      Liverpool 7-0 mancs
       :lmao:
      Havnt you wore them drum sticks out yet , it’s fckin tiresome if you don’t think VAR has killed off a lot of goal celebrations then you havnt stood or sat and watched a live game ,
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,973 posts | 666 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #451: Apr 01, 2023 12:35:12 pm
      Havnt you wore them drum sticks out yet , it’s fckin tiresome if you don’t think VAR has killed off a lot of goal celebrations then you havnt stood or sat and watched a live game ,
      The guy(across the water) is locked into his view and is incapable of rational debate. It's a waste of time pointing out any VAR issues to him, he is both blind and deaf to other peoples points. There are obvious problems with the system, otherwise there wouldn't be the ongoing complaints about it week in, week out.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,833 posts | 701 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #452: Apr 01, 2023 11:04:09 pm
      Quote from Longy-Shops
      The guy(across the water) is locked into his view and is incapable of rational debate. It's a waste of time pointing out any VAR issues to him, he is both blind and deaf to other peoples points. There are obvious problems with the system, otherwise there wouldn't be the ongoing complaints about it week in, week out.

      Quote from andylfcynwa
      it’s  tiresome if you don’t think VAR has killed off a lot of goal celebrations then you havnt stood or sat and watched a live game ,

      Yes I have, and I coped perfectly fine with it. No official ever said you can't celebrate goals, so you can celebrate goals as long as you want, they still have to be checked anyway. The most important celebration is the one at the final whistle. Then with the result in the bag, you can release all that emotion. Or alternatively, come here and be emotional about everything that's wrong with the game.

      From what I see anyway, it appears that the most complaints about it are from fans of teams in our league, and most others that use it across the world, seem to just accept that it is a permanent feature of the sport, and that VAR gets most decisions correct.

      I would much prefer if everyone else realised that the benefits of this outweigh the drawbacks, but I'm happy to debate it with anyone who doesn't, it doesn't get tiresome at all. It's seeing posts about how "tired" the mentality mice are after every negative result, when we all know that the main issue is that they're just too lazy to run through a brick wall for Jürgen, that are tiresome to me.
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #453: Apr 03, 2023 09:24:32 pm
      Kane puts the boot in...twice..gets handed off by an Everton player...tiny contact...and Kane goes down like he's been koshed...pathetic by the England captain no less....what a cheat. Yes you can't push somebody in the face but to deliberately exaggerate it was a disgrace.

      VAR never bothered to tell ref to red card Kane for deliberate feigning and exaggerating to get a fellow pro sent off.
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #454: Apr 03, 2023 09:50:03 pm
      What a goal..Keane...1-1..
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,968 posts | 1355 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #455: Apr 07, 2023 11:53:10 am
      Kane puts the boot in...twice..gets handed off by an Everton player...tiny contact...and Kane goes down like he's been koshed...pathetic by the England captain no less....what a cheat. Yes you can't push somebody in the face but to deliberately exaggerate it was a disgrace.

      VAR never bothered to tell ref to red card Kane for deliberate feigning and exaggerating to get a fellow pro sent off.

      Well said Sean Dyche. Claims Kane went down with "broken eyelash"...."millions of kids see footballers (England Captain) cheating and diving..and no one says a word"........spot on..a cheats a cheat no matter who he is. The media skirted over it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTrMrKb-HkY&ab_channel=SPORTSEXTRA

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCWV9CmM05M&ab_channel=%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1Tv

      Just 2 dives recently...What an example to set....no wonder Mancheater United want to sign him..
      « Last Edit: Apr 07, 2023 12:43:55 pm by Harrisimo »
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 727 posts | 111 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #456: Apr 07, 2023 02:52:46 pm
      The guy(across the water) is locked into his view and is incapable of rational debate. It's a waste of time pointing out any VAR issues to him, he is both blind and deaf to other peoples points. There are obvious problems with the system, otherwise there wouldn't be the ongoing complaints about it week in, week out.

      The technology isn't the problem - it's the people using it that have created the problems. As chats said further up, it's sharpened the focus on the officials themselves because there are fewer hiding places for them now. But the solution isn't to throw out the technology, it is to overhaul the PGMOL group and change the culture within that group. The culture is way too defensive and closed off at the moment and there needs to be much more transparency. We should be able to hear the referee talking to the players (as they do in many other sports). Time-keeping is another area that needs looking at - we've had games where the ref has blown up slightly early for half-time or full-time. Collina spoke out recently about the amount of injury time in the 7-0 win over Man Utd because it was blatantly just a case of them deciding they couldn't be bothered to play the correct amount of time. They are professionals but they behave like amateurs and hide behind closed doors whenever they cock up - taking away technology won't change that, it will only make it easier for them to excuse their cock-ups. VAR is far from perfect but personally I think think the solution is to keep it and force the officials who use it to change their bad habits and accept that there needs to be greater transparency in how they work
      Keith Singleton
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 16,662 posts | 2656 
      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #457: Apr 07, 2023 04:46:14 pm
      Yes I have, and I coped perfectly fine with it. No official ever said you can't celebrate goals, so you can celebrate goals as long as you want, they still have to be checked anyway. The most important celebration is the one at the final whistle. Then with the result in the bag, you can release all that emotion. Or alternatively, come here and be emotional about everything that's wrong with the game.

      From what I see anyway, it appears that the most complaints about it are from fans of teams in our league, and most others that use it across the world, seem to just accept that it is a permanent feature of the sport, and that VAR gets most decisions correct.

      I would much prefer if everyone else realised that the benefits of this outweigh the drawbacks, but I'm happy to debate it with anyone who doesn't, it doesn't get tiresome at all. It's seeing posts about how "tired" the mentality mice are after every negative result, when we all know that the main issue is that they're just too lazy to run through a brick wall for Jürgen, that are tiresome to me.

      Think there’s more complains about what a pr!ck you are than VAR.  :lmao:
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 35,963 posts | 3944 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #458: Apr 07, 2023 05:11:07 pm
      Well said Sean Dyche. Claims Kane went down with "broken eyelash"...."millions of kids see footballers (England Captain) cheating and diving..and no one says a word"........spot on..a cheats a cheat no matter who he is. The media skirted over it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTrMrKb-HkY&ab_channel=SPORTSEXTRA

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCWV9CmM05M&ab_channel=%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1Tv

      Just 2 dives recently...What an example to set....no wonder Mancheater United want to sign him..

      How the F**k does Kane get away with it?
      It's blatant cheating!
      Could it be that his play-acting earns Engerland some precious points?
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,973 posts | 666 
      Re: VAR has to go
      Reply #459: Apr 08, 2023 12:37:42 am
      The technology isn't the problem - it's the people using it that have created the problems. As chats said further up, it's sharpened the focus on the officials themselves because there are fewer hiding places for them now. But the solution isn't to throw out the technology, it is to overhaul the PGMOL group and change the culture within that group. The culture is way too defensive and closed off at the moment and there needs to be much more transparency. We should be able to hear the referee talking to the players (as they do in many other sports). Time-keeping is another area that needs looking at - we've had games where the ref has blown up slightly early for half-time or full-time. Collina spoke out recently about the amount of injury time in the 7-0 win over Man Utd because it was blatantly just a case of them deciding they couldn't be bothered to play the correct amount of time. They are professionals but they behave like amateurs and hide behind closed doors whenever they cock up - taking away technology won't change that, it will only make it easier for them to excuse their cock-ups. VAR is far from perfect but personally I think think the solution is to keep it and force the officials who use it to change their bad habits and accept that there needs to be greater transparency in how they work
      I have said previously VAR is a good idea in principle, but like a lot of good ideas it breaks down in the real World. First, the technology isn't ( and probably never can be) accurate enough to be 100% reliable. The number of frames per second used in the cameras would have to be greater, and the cost's of doing that would be astronomical. Offside is a perfect example: A footballers foot is in contact with a ball for more than 1 frame, in super slo-motion (more frames) we can see the foot come into contact with the ball, over about 3/4 frames the ball will contract and distort whilst in contact with the foot...then in the next couple of frames the ball will be free of the foot and be in the air. So depending on A. How hard the ball is being kicked, and whether it was previously still, or moving (and if so what direction)...and B. How much air is in the ball, is it wet, or dry, or even the ambient temperature will all be factors in how many frames the ball was in contact with the foot....It'll be about 4 to 6 frames...or just under about a quarter of a second. Moving on to the player receiving the ball, was he behind, in line with, or in front of a defender when that ball left the passers foot? Only a camera perfectly parallel to the receiving player would be able to show this, and even then there would have to be much greater frame count to see (and not guess) the exact frame where the player is now clear of any defender. Just think how hard this is baring in mind the defender could be 10 metres away. Of course cameras are not ( and can't be) parallel to the action, no cameras could track the action that quickly, and so the camera view we get now is compromised by the laws of parallax. This is why some people in the crowd see him clearly in front of a defender, and others see him behind, it's all determined by where you are watching from. The coloured lines VAR uses now is a best guess at what a parallel camera might have seen. So trying to match up the exact frame a ball leaves a foot with the exact frame a player is forward of a defender isn't possible with today's technology, or even tomorrows technology, because it would cost too much to implement, and it would take too long to adjudicate ...oh and it doesn't exist.

      So before anyone says what about the accuracy of the camera footage of 100 metre runners crossing the line, or bikes at the velodrome? ....Those cameras are A. moving at the approximate speed of the action, hence the background is blurry) and B. it's quite technical, if your that interested there's plenty of info online.
      Bottom line is the technology used for VAR isn't accurate enough, and so the operators have to make guesses, and as we all know, all guessed judgements over time will come out about 50/50...about the same as a dart throwing chimpanzee.
      If you want to know why different people make totally different judgements when presented with the exact same information...well that's a whole different story.
      Happy Easter

      Quick Reply