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      Central Defence

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      Robby The Z
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      Central Defence
      Oct 28, 2020 04:44:43 am
      Central Defence is a dilemma for us now, certainly for the weekend. With Virgil and now Fabinho out, we start with Joe, but as it stands we are asking Joe to play 7 games in 22 days and that is risky as well. Not sure when Matip comes back but here is what Jürgen said after the match about other options:

      "Apart from Rhys, we still have Nat Phillips, who for the reason that we thought he might make a transfer to another club, he is not in the Champions League squad, which is strange. But he is a centre-half as well. Billy [Koumetio] the kid, I’m not sure if he can train now tomorrow or not but he will be back in training. So, we have very young and inexperienced alternatives, and in the moment it looks like we have to choose one of them. I don’t know yet. But to be really clear and positive, Rhys was not in one situation tonight our problem, he played a really good game."
      clint_call01
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #1: Oct 28, 2020 07:31:25 am
      Williams did not put a wrong foot but I would play Phillips because he has more experience.

      Or else I would play Henderson next to Gomez.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #2: Oct 28, 2020 08:36:13 am
      Williams did not put a wrong foot but I would play Phillips because he has more experience.

      Or else I would play Henderson next to Gomez.

      Need Hendo in the midfield.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #3: Oct 28, 2020 08:58:09 am

      Yeah I agree

      Hendo would likely be more exposed at cb than a youngster in his natural position
      What you need to do is provide more cover and protection to the youngsters, so it may well be a case of playing two number 6s in front of the two cbs for the time being, to try to make sure the pressure and runners are kept away from them as much as possible

      You could play Thiago and Hendo as 6s in front of Gomez and the other
      I'd rather that than Hendo at cb and a normal open approach
      Play slightly deeper as a line and the two 6s in front with far less of a gap between midfield and CBS

      Simply offer them more protection as a defensive unit
      rossyred
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #4: Oct 28, 2020 09:11:08 am
      Just hope Matip fit for Saturday and then City . Play Rhys against Atlanta . Fab will be back after international break
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #5: Oct 28, 2020 09:13:26 am
      To be honest no matter what we chose now it’s a risk, there is no ‘best option’... we chose someone and hope it works out.

      There is no way Gomez survives all those games in that amount of days without a knock, unless someone’s sacrificed a loved one to some God somewhere, so hopefully by then Matip is back.

      It’s basically just survival now, and hope we can score a few because I don’t think one goal will be enough for any game now.
      ConzS
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #6: Oct 28, 2020 09:32:00 am
      "Apart from Rhys, we still have Nat Phillips, who for the reason that we thought he might make a transfer to another club, he is not in the Champions League squad, which is strange. But he is a centre-half as well. Billy [Koumetio] the kid, I’m not sure if he can train now tomorrow or not but he will be back in training. So, we have very young and inexperienced alternatives, and in the moment it looks like we have to choose one of them. I don’t know yet. But to be really clear and positive, Rhys was not in one situation tonight our problem, he played a really good game."
      Sounds like Matip won’t be fit for Saturday then.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #7: Oct 28, 2020 09:36:46 am
      I think if Phillip's was in the champions league squad he would play yesterday. Klopp saying last night the only reason he isn't is because we thought we were selling him but it didn't materialise.

      With that in mind I'm pretty sure he starts at weekend.

      West Ham is going to be a white knuckle ride that's for sure.

      If Antonio is fit he is going to be 1 happy man.  Could be the most one sided battles since a very one sided battle.
      heimdall
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #8: Oct 28, 2020 09:41:34 am
      I think if Phillip's was in the champions league squad he would play yesterday. Klopp saying last night the only reason he isn't is because we thought we were selling him but it didn't materialise.

      With that in mind I'm pretty sure he starts at weekend.

      West Ham is going to be a white knuckle ride that's for sure.

      If Antonio is fit he is going to be 1 happy man.  Could be the most one sided battles since a very one sided battle.

      Yes West Ham could be a tricky game, would be great to have Thiago back for that one, but I agree that we might need to play 2 6's to give as much cover as possible to the defence and then play traditional counter attacking football.
      FL Red
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #9: Oct 28, 2020 10:01:24 am
      It’s ridiculous that we are here right now. Imagine if we’d have replaced Lovren and Fabinho wouldn’t have had to been playing CB last night.

      I’m sorry I know hind sight is 20/20 but many people were worried about this very scenario and now here it is. If Matip wasn’t made of paper it would have been one thing but he is and we knew that. So now we get to either play kids or play more people out of position.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #10: Oct 28, 2020 10:10:20 am
      It’s ridiculous that we are here right now. Imagine if we’d have replaced Lovren and Fabinho wouldn’t have had to been playing CB last night.

      I’m sorry I know hind sight is 20/20 but many people were worried about this very scenario and now here it is. If Matip wasn’t made of paper it would have been one thing but he is and we knew that. So now we get to either play kids or play more people out of position.

      Yup, and I’m hating the counter argument from a certain few being ‘who could have expected all our defenders being injured’ or ‘who saw this coming?’..... erm... the majority of us! Yet they’ll still argue that this wasn’t expected.
      redindian
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #11: Oct 28, 2020 10:35:07 am
      Is Sepp van der berg that bad? Selling Ki-Jana seems like a mistake now..
      Brian78
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #12: Oct 28, 2020 10:55:21 am
      Williams looks the type of kid who with more pitch time he will grow and grow. He didnt put a foot wrong last night

      Philips did ok in Germany last year so he might have that bit more ecperience but Williams with the game time last night and the fact hell start v Atalanta might as well play v West ham. And then take it from there.

      Why have youth academys and u23 teams if when you actually need players you move players positionally. Fabinho played in defence with Monaco. Henderson isnt a defender. Yes Im sure hell do a job but why weaken our midfield. Go with Williams.

      How do we know he wont be a top class player??
      UncleBob
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #13: Oct 28, 2020 11:03:49 am
      Williams could grab this opportunity like TAA did before him. I remember Trent only got game time because of an injury crisis and it worked out well for him.
      Perhaps by the end of the season Williams will be considered a starter or 3rd choice. And if not him possibly one of the other youngsters waiting for their chance.
      Who knows.

      Either way it’s more exciting than worrying for me.



      FL Red
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #14: Oct 28, 2020 12:08:55 pm
      Williams could grab this opportunity like TAA did before him. I remember Trent only got game time because of an injury crisis and it worked out well for him.
      Perhaps by the end of the season Williams will be considered a starter or 3rd choice. And if not him possibly one of the other youngsters waiting for their chance.
      Who knows.

      Either way it’s more exciting than worrying for me.





      Or maybe the poor kid has a few bad performances and supporters get on his back and it stunts his growth or destroys him. I hope you are right but he’s just a kid, there will be a ton of pressure on him to perform to a possibly unrealistic level.
      JD
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #15: Oct 28, 2020 12:12:18 pm
      Klopp saying last night the only reason he isn't is because we thought we were selling him but it didn't materialise.

      From 'thought we were selling him' to 'first team centre-back' in the space of a couple of weeks.

      Wonder how the lad feels about all that!
      JD
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #16: Oct 28, 2020 12:14:54 pm
      Williams could grab this opportunity like TAA did before him. I remember Trent only got game time because of an injury crisis and it worked out well for him.

      Vast majority of youngsters who go on to make it big at big clubs do it through injuries.  Let's face it, the likes of Phillips and Williams would never get a look in at a Premier League club but would be sent on loans indefinitely.

      Trent, Gerrard (for Redknapp), Owen (for Fowler).  They've all only got given the chance due to injuries.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #17: Oct 28, 2020 12:47:59 pm
      Vast majority of youngsters who go on to make it big at big clubs do it through injuries.  Let's face it, the likes of Phillips and Williams would never get a look in at a Premier League club but would be sent on loans indefinitely.

      Trent, Gerrard (for Redknapp), Owen (for Fowler).  They've all only got given the chance due to injuries.

      In the few games we has played Rhys has looked solid and yet people prefer we would have signed someone else.

      A few years ago we bought one Steven Caulkner as backup but personally i much rather a young, promising player like Williams get those minutes over some "finished product" depth player. Oh, but the visionaries who saw all this coming would have been happy because we would have bought someone, yay!

      Oh, and it cracks me up. "If Fabinho wasn't playing CB he would not have gotten injured!", as if injuries only occur during games and only happen to those playing defense. JFC.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #18: Oct 28, 2020 12:51:08 pm
      Matip will be back shortly, though does not look like he'll be ready for Saturday, so in the meantime we go with Joe and Rhys as the starting CB's. When Matip is back he can give Joe a break.

      When both Joe and Joel are healthy, do we put them both as a starting pair, or do we break them up so we have 2 starting pairs to rotate. Not sure which route to go.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #19: Oct 28, 2020 12:54:10 pm
      Central Defence is a dilemma for us now, certainly for the weekend. With Virgil and now Fabinho out, we start with Joe, but as it stands we are asking Joe to play 7 games in 22 days and that is risky as well. Not sure when Matip comes back but here is what Jürgen said after the match about other options:


      Why is that risky? Trent and Robbo have barely gotten a break and they run miles more than the CB's in any game.
      FL Red
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #20: Oct 28, 2020 12:55:36 pm
      Vast majority of youngsters who go on to make it big at big clubs do it through injuries.  Let's face it, the likes of Phillips and Williams would never get a look in at a Premier League club but would be sent on loans indefinitely.

      Trent, Gerrard (for Redknapp), Owen (for Fowler).  They've all only got given the chance due to injuries.

      I disagree. If they are good enough, at some point they will force their way into a playing situation. Do you really think that Stevie would have never broken through on his talent alone? I think it's a bit naive to say that any of those named wouldn't have made it without the benefit of an injury opening the door. Maybe would have taken a little longer, but if the talent is there, you don't need to wait for an injury to impress.
      JD
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #21: Oct 28, 2020 01:23:18 pm
      Do you really think that Stevie would have never broken through on his talent alone?

      Possibly not.  Football at Academy level is filled with tales of the better players not getting the chance for a breakthrough - getting to their early twenties and ending up at the likes of Marine etc as their life starts getting filled with all the other stuff.

      I'd wager that a player could score 10 goals a game in the Academy and they wouldn't drop Sadio Mane for three months to allow him time to mature in the first team.  It's just not going to happen.  He'd go on loan to a team at the top of the Championship.

      Anyway, I'm going off topic here.  Big opportunity for Phillips or Williams in the upcoming month or so.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #22: Oct 28, 2020 02:06:40 pm
      To put it into context City who are struggling a bit as is have 5 experienced CB's, plus Walker and Fernandinho who have also played a number of games in this position.

      We started the season with only 3 experienced CB's plus one non CB in Fab who can fill in effectively.

      We should not have to rely on kids to start PL or CL games at CB in October I'm baffled some here think this isn't an issue.
      Brian78
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #23: Oct 28, 2020 03:07:25 pm
      To put it into context City who are struggling a bit as is have 5 experienced CB's, plus Walker and Fernandinho who have also played a number of games in this position.

      We started the season with only 3 experienced CB's plus one non CB in Fab who can fill in effectively.

      We should not have to rely on kids to start PL or CL games at CB in October I'm baffled some here think this isn't an issue.

      I think everyone thinks its an issue. But its rare to lose 3 central defenders 2 weeks apart to be fair. And nowt we can do for the next 8 weeks about it.

      Whose to say that Williams wont be called into the next England squad based on how he goes for us in the next few games?? Im exaggerating but the point is he could show to be boss a chance he wouldnt get with no injuries...could save us millions...its almost exciting to see how this goes
      GERNS
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      Re: Central Defence
      Reply #24: Oct 28, 2020 03:17:11 pm
      Id rather have Rhys Williams in there than Tyrone Mings thats for sure.
      Remember Shanks telling a young Kevin Keegan, I see Bobby Moore is carrying a nock. I just saw him limping, just run at him son,  he won't have a hope with that bad ankle......  Or words to that effect.. Keegan went out and ripped him a new one  ;D The psychologist that Shanks was. Moore wasn't injured.
      Come on Jürgen, have a word with Rhys.

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