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      Roberto Firmino Player Thread

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      FL Red
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2725: May 05, 2021 04:28:18 pm
      It is. A massive one. The amount of individual errors we have made are the responsibility of each player, not because someone is injured.

      When Salah had the tie on his foot against Real in the 2nd minute, he didn't miss because Van Dijk is injured. He simply missed.

      When Mane misses a clean header from 5 yards out, he didn't miss because Gomez was injured.

      When Alisson has looked like a pub goalie at times, it's on him.

      When we didn't score from open play at Anfield in 3 months, it wasn't because of injuries. The U23's can probably score in that many minutes if given the chance.

      But being it's 2021, we just assume no personal responsibility and it's always someone else's fault.

      Guess when Van Dijk is ready to retire we should just shut down the club.

      Nah...I'm not going line by line with you but there's plenty of statistics that show how we have played different due to our defense being sh*t. Allison's dealt with some ridiculous personal issues no one should have to deal with, so has Klopp, there've been no fans which has most certainly affected Bobby, Mane has possibly never fully recovered from his illness and time out, Mo has likely felt like he's the only one that can score and the added pressure has probably got to him. It's the butterfly effect. It started with Pickford clattering into VVD and we've now arrived at the tsunami.
      Brian78
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2726: May 05, 2021 05:17:34 pm
      Nah...I'm not going line by line with you but there's plenty of statistics that show how we have played different due to our defense being sh*t. Allison's dealt with some ridiculous personal issues no one should have to deal with, so has Klopp, there've been no fans which has most certainly affected Bobby, Mane has possibly never fully recovered from his illness and time out, Mo has likely felt like he's the only one that can score and the added pressure has probably got to him. It's the butterfly effect. It started with Pickford clattering into VVD and we've now arrived at the tsunami.

      Happy birthday

      Im.well past all these excuses for the form we have shown since Christmas.

      Losing VVD was huge of course it was, but we were still  top 2 montgs after losing him. losing Gomez then was monumental..But Klopp insisted on playing his high line with slow defenders. Thats a big issue overlooked.

      Its been no help that when Bobby and Mane forget what they do well that we have zero midfielders willing to share the load. Jota and Mo done their part at times. Ill look up the stats for our goals from the midfield wouldnt say its many

      We have had a sh*te season injury wise, we are not the only ones. But not once did we try anything different in our approach to games to try and nullify those losses or to have teams second guessing how we were going to line up.

      We have been shown to be a team led by I would argue 3 people. Hendo VVD Milner. After that leaderless. Thats been overlooked.

      And lastly I believe that this team might well have struggled this season anyway through natural tiredness from the past 3 seasons physically and mentally.
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Aldridge
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2727: May 05, 2021 06:28:27 pm
      Bobby's suffering more than anyone due to the tactical set-up of the side.

      When we used to play on the counter, we would go down the wings or through the middle, any which way. It suited him, the chaos of it all.

      Now we seem to have quite a fixed way of playing, which is slow-slow up the field, spread the ball out to the 2 advanced full backs, get crosses in.

      Bobby just isn't designed for this role. He's not a number 9. He hasn't got a burst of pace over 2 or 3 yards to nip him in ahead of a dozing centre back and finish with one touch.

      He's now almost redundant in this side. He barely sees the ball during attacking phases.

      Then you've got his much eulogised about pressing ability, which was always over-egged I believe, but we seem to have eased off the press quite a lot since Lijnders took over coaching, so even if Bobby's pressing was as good as it was cracked up to be, we don't seem quite so willing to employ it.

      His falling 'numbers' can be entirely explained by the above.

      Very very sadly, it's time for Bobby to be gently moved towards the LFC exit door as there is no real logic to him being in this tactical set-up any more. And it's absolutely not his fault. It's just the way it is. I don't believe the physical decline of Bobby Firmino has set in. But we really need someone with a burst of pace over a couple of yards, and the instinct to use it, in the middle of the three. Preferably someone half-decent in the air.

      Could even be worth trying to revitalise Sadio in the middle slot, with Jota left. Sadio has that unpredictability about him that defenders hate, but with the ability to see a space and quickly dart into it. He's had a godawful season so we need to try to work out if we can revitalise him somehow, otherwise he's looking at the exit door too.

      Bobby's, Sadio's, Mo's contracts are all down to 2 years this summer. None of them will ever command as high transfer fees as this summer ever again. Michael Edwards has got some absolutely mammoth decisions to make. I don't envy him that responsibility one bit.

      The big positive is we have one replacement in already. Jota's had a blinding start to his LFC career and he waltzes into our front three for me already. So just 2 more players to find then...
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2728: May 06, 2021 04:33:47 pm
      Bobby's suffering more than anyone due to the tactical set-up of the side.

      When we used to play on the counter, we would go down the wings or through the middle, any which way. It suited him, the chaos of it all.

      Now we seem to have quite a fixed way of playing, which is slow-slow up the field, spread the ball out to the 2 advanced full backs, get crosses in.

      Bobby just isn't designed for this role. He's not a number 9. He hasn't got a burst of pace over 2 or 3 yards to nip him in ahead of a dozing centre back and finish with one touch.

      He's now almost redundant in this side. He barely sees the ball during attacking phases.

      Then you've got his much eulogised about pressing ability, which was always over-egged I believe, but we seem to have eased off the press quite a lot since Lijnders took over coaching, so even if Bobby's pressing was as good as it was cracked up to be, we don't seem quite so willing to employ it.

      His falling 'numbers' can be entirely explained by the above.

      Very very sadly, it's time for Bobby to be gently moved towards the LFC exit door as there is no real logic to him being in this tactical set-up any more. And it's absolutely not his fault. It's just the way it is. I don't believe the physical decline of Bobby Firmino has set in. But we really need someone with a burst of pace over a couple of yards, and the instinct to use it, in the middle of the three. Preferably someone half-decent in the air.

      Could even be worth trying to revitalise Sadio in the middle slot, with Jota left. Sadio has that unpredictability about him that defenders hate, but with the ability to see a space and quickly dart into it. He's had a godawful season so we need to try to work out if we can revitalise him somehow, otherwise he's looking at the exit door too.

      Bobby's, Sadio's, Mo's contracts are all down to 2 years this summer. None of them will ever command as high transfer fees as this summer ever again. Michael Edwards has got some absolutely mammoth decisions to make. I don't envy him that responsibility one bit.

      The big positive is we have one replacement in already. Jota's had a blinding start to his LFC career and he waltzes into our front three for me already. So just 2 more players to find then...

      Sadio's finished as well mate.

      If you look at Klopps reign at Dortmund you'll notice most of his star players just break down or lose form. I think it's the constant intensity his tactics require from his players. This intensity is both mental and physical.

      These players weren't as much of the mentality giants that we thought they were. They crossed the line and collapsed like a marathon winner.

      Subotic, Piszczek, Schmelzer, Bender, Blaszczykowski, Grosskreutz, Reus, Gotze and more all saw a rapid decline in fitness and form.

      Only Lewan, Gundogan and Hummels really went on without both a decline in form and fitness.

      This is exactly what's happening here imo.

      We have too many players, who were performing at such a high level, decline rapidly. Blaming their extreme low level of form on two missing centre backs is the easy way out.

      It's a way of not pointing a finger at Klopp's tactics and system. I'm very behind the boss, but patiently waiting to see what happens next year. Form can't be switched on and off and next year seems like the promise land for most whilst I am very sceptical.

      I really hope they rediscover their form but Gotze didn't.

      Bobby is finished. He can't even score one on ones. He misses so many chances and gives the ball away so much. I've seen more press from a broken iron.

      No time for sentiment.

      Ask City and Chelsea who are going to Istanbul. Both ruthless clubs (yes I know they have sh*t loads of money that we don't)

      LondonRed83
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2729: May 06, 2021 04:41:24 pm
      Sadio's finished as well mate.

      If you look at Klopps reign at Dortmund you'll notice most of his star players just break down or lose form. I think it's the constant intensity his tactics require from his players. This intensity is both mental and physical.

      These players weren't as much of the mentality giants that we thought they were. They crossed the line and collapsed like a marathon winner.

      Subotic, Piszczek, Schmelzer, Bender, Blaszczykowski, Grosskreutz, Reus, Gotze and more all saw a rapid decline in fitness and form.

      Only Lewan, Gundogan and Hummels really went on without both a decline in form and fitness.

      This is exactly what's happening here imo.

      We have too many players, who were performing at such a high level, decline rapidly. Blaming their extreme low level of form on two missing centre backs is the easy way out.

      It's a way of not pointing a finger at Klopp's tactics and system. I'm very behind the boss, but patiently waiting to see what happens next year. Form can't be switched on and off and next year seems like the promise land for most whilst I am very sceptical.

      I really hope they rediscover their form but Gotze didn't.

      Bobby is finished. He can't even score one on ones. He misses so many chances and gives the ball away so much. I've seen more press from a broken iron.

      No time for sentiment.

      Ask City and Chelsea who are going to Istanbul. Both ruthless clubs (yes I know they have sh*t loads of money that we don't)

      Oh f**k off - you’re such a pr**k, are you really a Liverpool fan? You post so much negative nonsense it’s unbelievable.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2730: May 06, 2021 04:43:08 pm
      Oh f**k off - you’re such a pr**k, are you really a Liverpool fan? You post so much negative nonsense it’s unbelievable.

      Why don't you respond to my point or shut the f**k up
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2731: May 06, 2021 04:56:38 pm
      Why don't you respond to my point or shut the f**k up

      I'll respond, as far as Sadio goes yep you're talking out of your arse on that one.

      Gotze's form had a lot to do with the injuries he suffered. Reus is still banging goals for Dortmund though!!
      L4.19Times
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2732: May 06, 2021 05:12:09 pm
      Why don't you respond to my point or shut the f**k up


      When you start like this there is no f**king need

      If you want people to debate you, don’t talk in hyperbolic nonsense
      FL Red
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2733: May 06, 2021 05:24:19 pm
      Oh f**k off - you’re such a pr**k, are you really a Liverpool fan? You post so much negative nonsense it’s unbelievable.

      Pretty convinced it's another heimdell account.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2734: May 06, 2021 05:49:49 pm
      When you start like this there is no f**king need

      If you want people to debate you, don’t talk in hyperbolic nonsense

      Wtf do you want me to say?

      I think he's finished, his form is woeful.

      I don't get wtf I'm meant to say here. Shall I just lie to comfort blind supporters?
      L4.19Times
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2735: May 06, 2021 05:55:31 pm
      Wtf do you want me to say?

      I think he's finished, his form is woeful.

      I don't get wtf I'm meant to say here. Shall I just lie to comfort blind supporters?

      Just don’t be a c**t
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2736: May 06, 2021 06:08:22 pm
      Wtf do you want me to say?

      I think he's finished, his form is woeful.

      I don't get wtf I'm meant to say here. Shall I just lie to comfort blind supporters?

      Form is temporary............
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2737: May 06, 2021 06:58:16 pm

      Firmino is a legend and deserves our respect
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2738: May 06, 2021 07:01:08 pm
      Firmino is a legend and deserves our respect

      Actually I was responding about Sadio!!

      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Aldridge
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2739: May 06, 2021 07:50:25 pm
      If you look at Klopps reign at Dortmund you'll notice most of his star players just break down or lose form. I think it's the constant intensity his tactics require from his players. This intensity is both mental and physical.

      This is exactly what's happening here imo.

      I don't agree.

      It's lazy thinking. About as lazy as you can get.

      Something happened at Dortmund, therefore it will inevitably happen here?

      It's pretty medieval. It's the sort of stuff I'd expect to hear from people who believe in witches. Or Jesus. Or Father Christmas. Whatever. And this "OMG it's happening AGAIN" thing is going round and round the internet, and it's Liverpool fans who are making that happen. (Probably not what HUYTON RED or me might call 'proper' Liverpool fans, but they think they are)

      We've not played with that degree of intensity since the swashbuckling 2017/18 season. We didn't just marginally step off the gas. We virtually took our style of play and completely reversed it.

      We don't press anywhere near as much as we used to. Not to my eye anyway. I think I saw some stat that we were still just about the most intense pressing side in the league. I find that very very hard to believe. It just doesn't tally with the games I've seen. Even if it is true, which I don't believe, it must still be well well below the intensity of our press of 3 or 4 years ago.

      Our build-up play is classic continental and has been for 3 years since Lijnders came in and reversed the philosophy of 'Brains'. Slow slow and then quicken up when you get into the final third. That's got to be way less stress on the players' bodies. Our league title season was absolutely riddled with games that we won with barely as much as energy as we needed to put in to get the result. Game management. Henderson and Gini are brilliant at it.

      I've got a layman's understanding of the physical fitness and medical side of the game - i.e. almost no understanding - but it doesn't strike me that we're picking up lots of injuries that would be caused by overplaying. The assault on Virgil. Matip clearly has tall fella type chronic back problems, which is just down to his height and build; nobody could accuse Matip of playing too much. As far as I know cruciate ligament injuries aren't due to overplaying. I saw Jota's happen and I was surprised nobody really seemed to pay attention to it because I saw his leg go sideways and I went "oh no!" and I immediately feared it was another cruciate. It was subtle but defo visible.

      Also, Klopp has been bringing in various specialists from Germany in the last couple of seasons, and judging by titles such as 'Chief of the Chill-Out Room' and 'Director of Doing F**k All for a Couple of Days', Klopp is pretty focused on recovery and only too aware of the load on his players.

      So I don't worry about 'Dortmund II - Klopp flogs his players to death (again)'

      If anything these German recovery supremos seem to be doing too good a job. it's almost like they've talked about rest and recovery so often that the players have been sort of hypnotised into feeling knackered. Based on this season our next fancy appointment should be something like 'General Get Yer Arses in Gear Lads!'. Someone to put a rocket up em.

      The only thing I would be concerned about is the increase in games since Dortmund. Germany only has one domestic cup. OK, Klopp tends to rotate in our domestic cups, so maybe that isn't too much of an issue, but I'd lay a fiver that our lads are playing half a dozen games a season more than the Dortmund lads were and we know the calendar is only ever going to get more crammed as FIFA and UEFA try to cram in as many games as the calendar will just about allow.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2740: May 06, 2021 08:31:51 pm
      I don't agree.

      It's lazy thinking. About as lazy as you can get.

      Something happened at Dortmund, therefore it will inevitably happen here?

      It's pretty medieval. It's the sort of stuff I'd expect to hear from people who believe in witches. Or Jesus. Or Father Christmas. Whatever. And this "OMG it's happening AGAIN" thing is going round and round the internet, and it's Liverpool fans who are making that happen. (Probably not what HUYTON RED or me might call 'proper' Liverpool fans, but they think they are)

      We've not played with that degree of intensity since the swashbuckling 2017/18 season. We didn't just marginally step off the gas. We virtually took our style of play and completely reversed it.

      We don't press anywhere near as much as we used to. Not to my eye anyway. I think I saw some stat that we were still just about the most intense pressing side in the league. I find that very very hard to believe. It just doesn't tally with the games I've seen. Even if it is true, which I don't believe, it must still be well well below the intensity of our press of 3 or 4 years ago.

      Our build-up play is classic continental and has been for 3 years since Lijnders came in and reversed the philosophy of 'Brains'. Slow slow and then quicken up when you get into the final third. That's got to be way less stress on the players' bodies. Our league title season was absolutely riddled with games that we won with barely as much as energy as we needed to put in to get the result. Game management. Henderson and Gini are brilliant at it.

      I've got a layman's understanding of the physical fitness and medical side of the game - i.e. almost no understanding - but it doesn't strike me that we're picking up lots of injuries that would be caused by overplaying. The assault on Virgil. Matip clearly has tall fella type chronic back problems, which is just down to his height and build; nobody could accuse Matip of playing too much. As far as I know cruciate ligament injuries aren't due to overplaying. I saw Jota's happen and I was surprised nobody really seemed to pay attention to it because I saw his leg go sideways and I went "oh no!" and I immediately feared it was another cruciate. It was subtle but defo visible.

      Also, Klopp has been bringing in various specialists from Germany in the last couple of seasons, and judging by titles such as 'Chief of the Chill-Out Room' and 'Director of Doing F**k All for a Couple of Days', Klopp is pretty focused on recovery and only too aware of the load on his players.

      So I don't worry about 'Dortmund II - Klopp flogs his players to death (again)'

      If anything these German recovery supremos seem to be doing too good a job. it's almost like they've talked about rest and recovery so often that the players have been sort of hypnotised into feeling knackered. Based on this season our next fancy appointment should be something like 'General Get Yer Arses in Gear Lads!'. Someone to put a rocket up em.

      The only thing I would be concerned about is the increase in games since Dortmund. Germany only has one domestic cup. OK, Klopp tends to rotate in our domestic cups, so maybe that isn't too much of an issue, but I'd lay a fiver that our lads are playing half a dozen games a season more than the Dortmund lads were and we know the calendar is only ever going to get more crammed as FIFA and UEFA try to cram in as many games as the calendar will just about allow.

      It's quite offensive that you would link my belief in Jesus to belief in father Christmas.

      As if your agnosticism or atheism makes you intellctually superior to one who believes in religion. Holding those beliefs doesn't make you clever.

      We were still pressing and hounding last year. Teams couldn't get out of their half. Pinned in with a relentless press.

      Imo it's had an effect on the players fitness like it did at Dortmund

      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Aldridge
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2741: May 06, 2021 09:00:03 pm
      It's quite offensive that you would link my belief in Jesus to belief in father Christmas.

      As if your agnosticism or atheism makes you intellctually superior to one who believes in religion. Holding those beliefs doesn't make you clever.

      We were still pressing and hounding last year. Teams couldn't get out of their half. Pinned in with a relentless press.

      Imo it's had an effect on the players fitness like it did at Dortmund


      If you believe in the resurrection you really shouldn't be too worried about Klopp killing his players.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Roberto Firmino Player Thread
      Reply #2742: May 10, 2021 07:51:22 am
      Lovely pressing and assist for Thiago’s goal

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