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      Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?

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      MIRO
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      Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Nov 03, 2020 01:18:50 pm
      Liverpool FC and relevance.

      I don't want this to be contentious or treated as incorrect politically in any way but haven't we gone way overboard with pre game tributes?


      Question : What do Brian Jackson  David Astori and  Jose Antonio Reyes all have in common?

      They have in the last couple of years all been subject to a minutes silence held by the Liverpool players before a game.

      Lets take Jose.

      Did he play for Liverpool ? No . He played for Sevilla and The Arse.  He played also for both Madrid teams where last years CL final between the Spuds and ourselves was held.
      Did that have any relevance to either Liverpool or Spurs ?  No.

      In 2015 we as with other clubs held a minutes silence for the Paris attacks . The Marseille was played and yet when a gunmen killed 50 people in a racially motivated killing in New Zealand  ... one of our commonwealth countries.... what happened.
      Nothing.
      The Rugby teams respected the event .
      The Premier League didn't.

      Last week there was Nobby Stiles.  Did he play for us? No .
      He played for England many, many moons ago that this country  continues to dine out on ....from over 50 years ago.

      When our own Roger Hunt passes.... the player who held our goal scoring record for 23 years from 67 to 90 until Rushie broke it ...
      will the Premier League hold a minutes silence across the board? After all he too was part of the England squad.

      Last weekend it was a wonder the games actually started. There was Stiles  The Remembrance Tribute and The Knee.

      The Knee.
      We all sympathise for what happened this year to George Floyd.

      There have though been other cases such as Walter Wallace a person with a mental health issue who posing no threat was fatally gunned down by Philadelphia Police Officers because they didn't have any Tasers to restrain him.

      What about Tony Timpa?
      Who?
      Tony was a guy who was restrained by cops for 14 minutes before dying in 2016. That was Dallas. All the cops got away with it.
      On You Tube they can be heard to say sarcastically " I hope we didn't kill him ".
      Did anyone hold any tributes for him every week?  ( Warning:  Disturbing Video posted in George Floyd Aftermath thread. )

      U.S. society is dysfunctional . Maybe the election can redeem that country.
      There is Police malpractice right across the world but we have this continuing outpouring of grief over Floyd as if its a process that we really need to do.

      The person who organised Clap For Carers knew when it was time to call time on it . The message had been made.

      Shouldn't we now reign all this Sympathy and Empathy stuff in to what is really relevant to this club ... ie Hillsborough .
      « Last Edit: Nov 03, 2020 08:21:31 pm by MIRO »
      JD
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #1: Nov 03, 2020 01:44:30 pm
      Liverpool FC and relevance.

      I don't want this to be contentious or treated as incorrect politically in any way but haven't we gone way overboard with pre game tributes?

      I honestly don't know how long it's been going on for and what constitutes whether someone gets a minutes silence or not. 

      I don't remember it being a regular thing 25 years ago but maybe some people know more than me.  I'm assuming in the 1980's a former player who was born in 1900 didn't get honoured pre-match after their death but maybe it's become more of a thing because players who pass away now are more likely to have archive video footage etc of them playing?

      That's the only thing I can guess at.
      FL Red
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #2: Nov 03, 2020 05:33:58 pm
      US society isn’t dysfunctional. But I suppose when you get your views of the country from television and media it might look that way.

      The UK has just as many backwards, corrupt, jackass ignorant people as the US, probably more actually.....maybe you should focus on them and we will deal with our own issues over here without your help Skip.

      And as for the club, yes, Hillsborough should be first and foremost when it comes to focusing attention on injustice. Doesn’t mean other things can’t be addressed, but when you do something for every little whip stitch, it tends to lose any value.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #3: Nov 03, 2020 05:59:02 pm
      US society isn’t dysfunctional. But I suppose when you get your views of the country from television and media it might look that way.

      The UK has just as many backwards, corrupt, jackass ignorant people as the US, probably more actually.....maybe you should focus on them and we will deal with our own issues over here without your help Skip.

      And as for the club, yes, Hillsborough should be first and foremost when it comes to focusing attention on injustice. Doesn’t mean other things can’t be addressed, but when you do something for every little whip stitch, it tends to lose any value.

      Perhaps you will begin to deal with your issues today .... U.S. Election Day ..... which really is a referendum for Sanity or Continued Insanity.
      The world is looking and why shouldn't we be. ?

      The viewpoint I get is Stateside from NBC CNN The Washington Post and The New York Times.
      Your very own media.
      Looks like youve bought right into the Fake Media Soundbite ?

      We don't have to board up our city centres and build additional  higher solid security walls around Downing St or Buckingham Palace.
      « Last Edit: Nov 03, 2020 08:09:11 pm by MIRO »
      FL Red
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #4: Nov 03, 2020 06:41:17 pm
      Perhaps you will begin to deal with your issues today .... U.S. Election Day ..... which really is a referendum for Sanity or Continued Insanity.
      The world is looking and why shouldn't we be. ?

      The viewpoint I get is Stateside from NBC CNN The Washington Post and The New York Times.
      Your very own media.
      Looks like youve bought right into the Fake Media Soundbite ?

      We don't have to board up our city centres and build additional  higher security walls around Downing St or Buckingham Palace.

      🤣🤣

      Like I thought. You are clueless and basically admitted as such. You keep getting your view of the country from the news (and I don’t really care which ones you watch, they are all corporate stooges). If you really want to know about America maybe ask some real Americans and don’t rely on television and media like I said.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #5: Nov 03, 2020 06:49:14 pm
      🤣🤣

      Like I thought. You are clueless and basically admitted as such. You keep getting your view of the country from the news (and I don’t really care which ones you watch, they are all corporate stooges). If you really want to know about America maybe ask some real Americans and don’t rely on television and media like I said.

      I actually have some family and business associates in the States. I listen to them first.
      Family in Trenton N.J.  /   Maryland   /  Lauderdale FL and Raleigh Carolina.   Cant get more diverse than that.
      One of them is ready to leave if the election goes the wrong way. She is not the only one across the States.
      It is that bad.

      Right Off Topic now .....
      « Last Edit: Nov 03, 2020 06:57:38 pm by MIRO »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #6: Nov 03, 2020 07:11:21 pm
      I actually have some family and business associates in the States. I listen to them first.
      Family in Trenton N.J.  /   Maryland   /  Lauderdale FL and Raleigh Carolina.   Cant get more diverse than that.
      One of them is ready to leave if the election goes the wrong way. She is not the only one across the States.
      It is that bad.

      Right Off Topic now .....

      Well......THAT escalated quickly!  ;D

      We are a divided country - and the two sides have absolutely no time or interest in understanding or reasoning with the other. THAT is the beginning of our dysfunction.

      But to your original post (PLEASE) I think you make a good point. The adage that "if everything is special, than nothing is" comes to mind.'

      Long before we ever had controversy here about kneeling during the national anthem and all that, I always felt we played the national anthem so much (before EVERYTHING sport and a lot of other stuff too) that we made it basically a formality and guaranteed that almost nobody paid real attention to it (even veterans like myself).

      Compulsory thought is a real enemy to freedom, and such gestures are maybe best reserved for the things where there is much wider agreement both on the point and the passion behind the issue being recognized.
      GERNS
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #7: Nov 04, 2020 10:34:22 am
      I thoroughly agree with Miro. It’s all going a bit to far. This taking the knee has run it’s course now, time to stop.
       As for FL red, I’m no expert, but with respect, USA is so huge, I’m not sure you call really be aware of what is going on in all states. I know what goes on in my kneck of the woods, but only get an glimpse of what is really going on with peoples reaction to politic adgendas elsewhere through the media. And the whole of the uk is smaller than some us states.
      So whatever you think you know about national topics, you only know what you get through the media like everyone else, unless of course you have access to all political and social decisions and reactions personally from every state.
      Not saying any of it is good or bad, not taking sides, but let’s stay realistic eh !
      Do any of us really know what goes on behind others closed doors.
      Brian78
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #8: Nov 04, 2020 11:37:49 am
      Taking the knee has lost all impact needs to stop. Lije motd feel the need to show it before every game on the highlights, why? Les Ferdinand spoke  brilliantly a few weeks ago on it

      Regarding deaths of former players I always just found it as a mark of respect for a fellow plsyer or pro nothing more nothing less
      FL Red
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #9: Nov 04, 2020 01:46:26 pm
      I thoroughly agree with Miro. It’s all going a bit to far. This taking the knee has run it’s course now, time to stop.
       As for FL red, I’m no expert, but with respect, USA is so huge, I’m not sure you call really be aware of what is going on in all states. I know what goes on in my kneck of the woods, but only get an glimpse of what is really going on with peoples reaction to politic adgendas elsewhere through the media. And the whole of the uk is smaller than some us states.
      So whatever you think you know about national topics, you only know what you get through the media like everyone else, unless of course you have access to all political and social decisions and reactions personally from every state.
      Not saying any of it is good or bad, not taking sides, but let’s stay realistic eh !
      Do any of us really know what goes on behind others closed doors.
      My work takes me to about 85% of the states in this country...for the last 11 years....so I've got a pretty good finger on the pulse of this country. I've worked with military, white collar, blue collar, poor, rich, and everyone in between. This country is mostly made up of people that just want to be left alone, provide a good life for their families, to enjoy themselves from time to time and to be as "free" from government overreach as possible. But the manifestation of large populations in the largest urban areas of this country have changed the perception of our country to most outsiders. Look at where most of the so called issues are in this country....they are in the largest cities. Most gun crime is in large cities known for their strict gun laws (Chicago, DC, LA, NYC), most police brutality is in larger urban areas often run by politicians that ascribe to the equality movement du jour. Hell, the worst places in the country for Covid cases are the areas that have been heavy handed in lockdowns and mask orders.

      It's not as dangerous as people think in the US and we aren't quite as divided as you may think, although I will concede that most of the division we do have is really bad, and it's mostly down to one thing...social media and group think.

      If you have done so, you should watch the Netflix documentary called the Social Dilemna. Frightening how social media has literally taken people that once weren't that far apart even if they had different beliefs and have turned them into completely spectrum opposites that can't even interact with each other civilly anymore.

      sore monad
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #10: Nov 04, 2020 02:43:08 pm
      This country is mostly made up of people that just want to be left alone, provide a good life for their families, to enjoy themselves from time to time and to be as "free" from government overreach as possible. But the manifestation of large populations in the largest urban areas of this country have changed the perception of our country to most outsiders. Look at where most of the so called issues are in this country....they are in the largest cities. Most gun crime is in large cities known for their strict gun laws (Chicago, DC, LA, NYC), most police brutality is in larger urban areas often run by politicians that ascribe to the equality movement du jour. Hell, the worst places in the country for Covid cases are the areas that have been heavy handed in lockdowns and mask orders.


      My Trumpometer started ticking after the first sentence, and then just went off the scale.
      FL Red
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #11: Nov 04, 2020 02:47:34 pm
      My Trumpometer started ticking after the first sentence, and then just went off the scale.

      Good for you. I guess it’s easier making assumptions about people than trying to get to know them though right?

      glennusmc
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #12: Nov 04, 2020 03:33:26 pm
      Liverpool FC and relevance.

      I don't want this to be contentious or treated as incorrect politically in any way but haven't we gone way overboard with pre game tributes?


      Question : What do Brian Jackson  David Astori and  Jose Antonio Reyes all have in common?

      They have in the last couple of years all been subject to a minutes silence held by the Liverpool players before a game.

      Lets take Jose.

      Did he play for Liverpool ? No . He played for Sevilla and The Arse.  He played also for both Madrid teams where last years CL final between the Spuds and ourselves was held.
      Did that have any relevance to either Liverpool or Spurs ?  No.

      In 2015 we as with other clubs held a minutes silence for the Paris attacks . The Marseille was played and yet when a gunmen killed 50 people in a racially motivated killing in New Zealand  ... one of our commonwealth countries.... what happened.
      Nothing.
      The Rugby teams respected the event .
      The Premier League didn't.

      Last week there was Nobby Stiles.  Did he play for us? No .
      He played for England many, many moons ago that this country  continues to dine out on ....from over 50 years ago.

      When our own Roger Hunt passes.... the player who held our goal scoring record for 23 years from 67 to 90 until Rushie broke it ...
      will the Premier League hold a minutes silence across the board? After all he too was part of the England squad.

      Last weekend it was a wonder the games actually started. There was Stiles  The Remembrance Tribute and The Knee.

      The Knee.
      We all sympathise for what happened this year to George Floyd.

      There have though been other cases such as Walter Wallace a person with a mental health issue who posing no threat was fatally gunned down by Philadelphia Police Officers because they didn't have any Tasers to restrain him.

      What about Tony Timpa?
      Who?
      Tony was a guy who was restrained by cops for 14 minutes before dying in 2016. That was Dallas. All the cops got away with it.
      On You Tube they can be heard to say sarcastically " I hope we didn't kill him ".
      Did anyone hold any tributes for him every week?  ( Warning:  Disturbing Video posted in George Floyd Aftermath thread. )

      U.S. society is dysfunctional . Maybe the election can redeem that country.
      There is Police malpractice right across the world but we have this continuing outpouring of grief over Floyd as if its a process that we really need to do.

      The person who organised Clap For Carers knew when it was time to call time on it . The message had been made.

      Shouldn't we now reign all this Sympathy and Empathy stuff in to what is really relevant to this club ... ie Hillsborough .

      Walter Wallace, posing no threat?? Are you f**king kidding me??
      A knife is a deadly weapon, police called to his house two times prior to the shooting. He was chasing 2 police offices with a knife. Totally justified shooting, you may live in the UK, but under the Supreme Court law, here in the US, Graham v Occonnor, a police officer , a able to use deadly force when the threat posed is immediate.

      And yes, I am a police officer here in NJ, for 20 years now.
      Shabs
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #13: Nov 04, 2020 04:40:23 pm
      Walter Wallace, posing no threat?? Are you f**king kidding me??
      A knife is a deadly weapon, police called to his house two times prior to the shooting. He was chasing 2 police offices with a knife. Totally justified shooting, you may live in the UK, but under the Supreme Court law, here in the US, Graham v Occonnor, a police officer , a able to use deadly force when the threat posed is immediate.

      And yes, I am a police officer here in NJ, for 20 years now.


      Why do you shoot to kill..? Why not shoot in the leg to immobilise ..?
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #14: Nov 04, 2020 05:40:35 pm
      Walter Wallace, posing no threat?? Are you f**king kidding me??
      A knife is a deadly weapon, police called to his house two times prior to the shooting. He was chasing 2 police offices with a knife. Totally justified shooting, you may live in the UK, but under the Supreme Court law, here in the US, Graham v Occonnor, a police officer , a able to use deadly force when the threat posed is immediate.

      And yes, I am a police officer here in NJ, for 20 years now.


      Where was a Taser ?

      Pepper spray ?

      Baton ?



      We are way off the topic of this thread .
      « Last Edit: Nov 04, 2020 08:47:11 pm by MIRO »
      Swab
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #15: Nov 04, 2020 05:49:36 pm
      Walter Wallace, posing no threat?? Are you f**king kidding me??
      A knife is a deadly weapon, police called to his house two times prior to the shooting. He was chasing 2 police offices with a knife. Totally justified shooting, you may live in the UK, but under the Supreme Court law, here in the US, Graham v Occonnor, a police officer , a able to use deadly force when the threat posed is immediate.

      And yes, I am a police officer here in NJ, for 20 years now.

      So what threat did George Floyd pose while a cop was kneeling on his neck for almost 10 minutes?
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #16: Nov 04, 2020 05:54:34 pm
      Walter Wallace, posing no threat?? Are you f**king kidding me??
      A knife is a deadly weapon, police called to his house two times prior to the shooting. He was chasing 2 police offices with a knife. Totally justified shooting, you may live in the UK, but under the Supreme Court law, here in the US, Graham v Occonnor, a police officer , a able to use deadly force when the threat posed is immediate.

      And yes, I am a police officer here in NJ, for 20 years now.


      Why do all police f**king lie when they f**k up, every single f**king time cover their own arses and their colleagues and will openly lie in court? And yeah Hillsborough does factor in when talking about the lying f**king cu*ts.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #17: Nov 04, 2020 05:57:25 pm
      Liverpool FC and relevance.

      I don't want this to be contentious or treated as incorrect politically in any way but haven't we gone way overboard with pre game tributes?


      Question : What do Brian Jackson  David Astori and  Jose Antonio Reyes all have in common?

      They have in the last couple of years all been subject to a minutes silence held by the Liverpool players before a game.

      Lets take Jose.

      Did he play for Liverpool ? No . He played for Sevilla and The Arse.  He played also for both Madrid teams where last years CL final between the Spuds and ourselves was held.
      Did that have any relevance to either Liverpool or Spurs ?  No.

      In 2015 we as with other clubs held a minutes silence for the Paris attacks . The Marseille was played and yet when a gunmen killed 50 people in a racially motivated killing in New Zealand  ... one of our commonwealth countries.... what happened.
      Nothing.
      The Rugby teams respected the event .
      The Premier League didn't.

      Last week there was Nobby Stiles.  Did he play for us? No .
      He played for England many, many moons ago that this country  continues to dine out on ....from over 50 years ago.

      When our own Roger Hunt passes.... the player who held our goal scoring record for 23 years from 67 to 90 until Rushie broke it ...
      will the Premier League hold a minutes silence across the board? After all he too was part of the England squad.

      Last weekend it was a wonder the games actually started. There was Stiles  The Remembrance Tribute and The Knee.

      The Knee.
      We all sympathise for what happened this year to George Floyd.

      There have though been other cases such as Walter Wallace a person with a mental health issue who posing no threat was fatally gunned down by Philadelphia Police Officers because they didn't have any Tasers to restrain him.

      What about Tony Timpa?
      Who?
      Tony was a guy who was restrained by cops for 14 minutes before dying in 2016. That was Dallas. All the cops got away with it.
      On You Tube they can be heard to say sarcastically " I hope we didn't kill him ".
      Did anyone hold any tributes for him every week?  ( Warning:  Disturbing Video posted in George Floyd Aftermath thread. )

      U.S. society is dysfunctional . Maybe the election can redeem that country.
      There is Police malpractice right across the world but we have this continuing outpouring of grief over Floyd as if its a process that we really need to do.

      The person who organised Clap For Carers knew when it was time to call time on it . The message had been made.

      Shouldn't we now reign all this Sympathy and Empathy stuff in to what is really relevant to this club ... ie Hillsborough .

      To be fair Reyes had f**k all to with us and was a decision taken by UEFA to have the minutes silence before start of final in Madrid.
      sore monad
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #18: Nov 04, 2020 07:52:50 pm
      Good for you. I guess it’s easier making assumptions about people than trying to get to know them though right?

      Don't know about you, but I find a good way of getting to know somebody on an internet forum is by reading their posts  ;D

      (And if you think that post of yours wasn't screaming "I JUST VOTED TRUMP!", never take up poker.)

      Anyway, back on topic, I'm inclined to agree with Les Ferdinand on the taking the knee now. It's a gesture that's lost its impact, but everybody is kind of afraid to stop making.
      glennusmc
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #19: Nov 05, 2020 01:29:11 am
      Why do you shoot to kill..? Why not shoot in the leg to immobilise ..?

      Shoot to stop the threat, yeah so shoot him in the leg, either it misses the leg and hits an innocent bystander or it hits the femoral artery in the leg any he bleeds out in seconds. We are trainedto shoot center mass, which is the upper body.

      glennusmc
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #20: Nov 05, 2020 01:30:31 am
      Where was a Taser ?

      Pepper spray ?

      Baton ?



      We are way off the topic of this thread .

      They weren’t equipped with a taser, pepper spray is not stopping a man coming after you in that mental state with a knife, sorry, but I’m going home at the end of my shift.



      lfc across the water
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #21: Nov 05, 2020 10:57:58 pm
      Does anyone seriously think that when confronting a professional criminal on the run with about 15 previous convictions, that the cops are going to ask "D'you know what, if I discharge my firearm on this suspect, soccer players and personnel in England are all going to go down on one knee before every game for the next 9 months, and the 9 months after that?", or will they ask "I've got to get him before he commits his next offence, by whatever means necessary". Tough one that. Biden has been in American politics for 50 years, a time when there's been lots of protests and property damage, but little action. That will not change in the event he is elected. It's just a question of changing one white OAP for another.

      Games are now starting way behind schedule for all the tributes and gestures to be gone through. I've always believed that a sports stadium is for sport only, and if it was a UEFA game, a ko delay means a high fine. The knee has achieved nothing since it started, nor would you expect it to. Now it's lost it's visual impact as well. It's a ko ritual, but in England it still has to be done.

      On the night we won the World Cup, another England player in 66 picked his moment to go. So when this wonderful side were collecting the trophy and were on our lap of honour, LFCTV were holding personal tributes in the studio to the said England 66 player, amongst discussing other non club related issues.

      Unfortunately there's little we can do about tributes to be held for those with no club connections. Playing La Marseillaise before games won't deter an Islamic militant with a grudge carrying out another indiscriminate outrage, but if the FA say we have to do it, then we have to do it. There is not an opt-out option.
      billythered
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #22: Nov 06, 2020 05:51:32 am
      My work takes me to about 85% of the states in this country...for the last 11 years....so I've got a pretty good finger on the pulse of this country. I've worked with military, white collar, blue collar, poor, rich, and everyone in between. This country is mostly made up of people that just want to be left alone, provide a good life for their families, to enjoy themselves from time to time and to be as "free" from government overreach as possible. But the manifestation of large populations in the largest urban areas of this country have changed the perception of our country to most outsiders. Look at where most of the so called issues are in this country....they are in the largest cities. Most gun crime is in large cities known for their strict gun laws (Chicago, DC, LA, NYC), most police brutality is in larger urban areas often run by politicians that ascribe to the equality movement du jour. Hell, the worst places in the country for Covid cases are the areas that have been heavy handed in lockdowns and mask orders.

      It's not as dangerous as people think in the US and we aren't quite as divided as you may think, although I will concede that most of the division we do have is really bad, and it's mostly down to one thing...social media and group think.

      If you have done so, you should watch the Netflix documentary called the Social Dilemna. Frightening how social media has literally taken people that once weren't that far apart even if they had different beliefs and have turned them into completely spectrum opposites that can't even interact with each other civilly anymore.







      Your country should be renamed as the Dis-united States of America, every state has its own laws or different from others, so how the hell is it United,
      The trouble is like here in the UK, your Government along with the media & social networking, brainwash the generation public into believing their way is the best way, and ppl just follow like Sheep,

      You can have a opinion of course but it doesn’t really matter because you live in a dictatorship and what they say goes, of course they want you to believe you have freedom of speech and all of that but you don’t, not really, the police your police are the Gov’s bullies, they make sure you Don’t get to say or do what you want, they are the most corrupt racist fascist bas**rds , some akin to the SS,

      I believe  most normal American ppl to be hard working ordinary folk, but unfortunately your Gov like the one here constantly let them down and are truly only interested in what’s in it for them, Capitalism is the other guilty party, where it’s all about greed and more greed and yet more greed, it’s all about the fat cats getting fatter and f**k everyone else, if you haven’t got a dime, they won’t give you the time, simple as that, another Capatilist mantra is Wealth before health, where if you want to live long it’s gonna f**king cost you 100’s of thousands of dollars, there is no NHS, but you have Medicare etc, a medical insurance that barely stretches to pay for the ambulance and a couple of sticking plasters if you have cancer,


      My Sister lives there and she f***in hates it, she married a Yank so is stuck in this land of dis- believe, where most chase a American dream that doesn’t exist, it’s not the American folks fault it’s down to those in Government as with our own Gov, they only want your taxes, and your wee X every 4 or five years,


      Please don’t get me started on Trump, he’s part of the reason the states are fu**ed, he’s the biggest racist greediest fat useless b***ard ever to have the presidency, in other words a Total Kunt who somebody should wipe of the face of this Earth, he is everything the normal working American ppl are not, yet in the time of elections it’s still a close run thing, says a lot about the brainwashing that ppl believe in doesn’t it ?

      Over here we have a equally greedy fat useless b***ard in Boris, and his peers, the Tories who again don’t give a f**k about its ppl until a election comes around but are quite happy to rape  you of your hard earned money through taxes, income tax, corporate tax, value added tax, national insurance another tax, then everything you buy is taxed at 20%, , no wonder we’re all f***in depressed, but this what they call freedom, it is , so long as you pay for it ....


      FUCK IT, IM DONE, IM OUTTA HERE, FUCKIN SHIT STATE OF AFFAIRS  ! !






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      FL Red
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #23: Nov 06, 2020 10:33:29 am




      Your country should be renamed as the Dis-united States of America, every state has its own laws or different from others, so how the hell is it United,
      The trouble is like here in the UK, your Government along with the media & social networking, brainwash the generation public into believing their way is the best way, and ppl just follow like Sheep,

      You can have a opinion of course but it doesn’t really matter because you live in a dictatorship and what they say goes, of course they want you to believe you have freedom of speech and all of that but you don’t, not really, the police your police are the Gov’s bullies, they make sure you Don’t get to say or do what you want, they are the most corrupt racist fascist bas**rds , some akin to the SS,

      I believe  most normal American ppl to be hard working ordinary folk, but unfortunately your Gov like the one here constantly let them down and are truly only interested in what’s in it for them, Capitalism is the other guilty party, where it’s all about greed and more greed and yet more greed, it’s all about the fat cats getting fatter and f**k everyone else, if you haven’t got a dime, they won’t give you the time, simple as that, another Capatilist mantra is Wealth before health, where if you want to live long it’s gonna f**king cost you 100’s of thousands of dollars, there is no NHS, but you have Medicare etc, a medical insurance that barely stretches to pay for the ambulance and a couple of sticking plasters if you have cancer,


      My Sister lives there and she f***in hates it, she married a Yank so is stuck in this land of dis- believe, where most chase a American dream that doesn’t exist, it’s not the American folks fault it’s down to those in Government as with our own Gov, they only want your taxes, and your wee X every 4 or five years,


      Please don’t get me started on Trump, he’s part of the reason the states are fu**ed, he’s the biggest racist greediest fat useless b***ard ever to have the presidency, in other words a Total Kunt who somebody should wipe of the face of this Earth, he is everything the normal working American ppl are not, yet in the time of elections it’s still a close run thing, says a lot about the brainwashing that ppl believe in doesn’t it ?

      Over here we have a equally greedy fat useless b***ard in Boris, and his peers, the Tories who again don’t give a f**k about its ppl until a election comes around but are quite happy to rape  you of your hard earned money through taxes, income tax, corporate tax, value added tax, national insurance another tax, then everything you buy is taxed at 20%, , no wonder we’re all f***in depressed, but this what they call freedom, it is , so long as you pay for it ....


      FUCK IT, IM DONE, IM OUTTA HERE, FUCKIN SHIT STATE OF AFFAIRS  ! !






                                                                                  Y  N  W  A



      It’s interesting what you are saying about the Tories taxing you to death because here the Democrats are the party of taxes. I don’t know enough about the UK to speak on your politics, but over here we do have more freedom and that’s what most of us are looking to protect. Can’t tell you the number of immigrants I’ve talked to, known and worked with that still think the US (with all its flaws) is the best place to be able to have a chance at fulfilling a dream. People from Asia, Eastern Europe, South and Central America that came here and have been able to make a much better life for themselves.  Obviously your mileage may vary.
      billythered
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #24: Nov 06, 2020 06:25:42 pm
      It’s interesting what you are saying about the Tories taxing you to death because here the Democrats are the party of taxes. I don’t know enough about the UK to speak on your politics, but over here we do have more freedom and that’s what most of us are looking to protect. Can’t tell you the number of immigrants I’ve talked to, known and worked with that still think the US (with all its flaws) is the best place to be able to have a chance at fulfilling a dream. People from Asia, Eastern Europe, South and Central America that came here and have been able to make a much better life for themselves.  Obviously your mileage may vary.




      Could it be that those immigrants who came from Asia, Eastern Europe, South and Central America came from beginning’s far worse than the lowest in the States, what they can earn in America is much more than what they could earn in their own countries, perhaps as much as three times more ?

      It happens here in the UK, where immigrants come in mainly from Eastern Europe because they can earn  triple what the get in their homelands, even tho it’s minimum wage, £8.72ph if your over 25, £4.55 if under 18, still chicken feed if you consider the standard of living of the country, basically a pittance to the indigenous ppl, but to immigrants it’s quite a wedge from what they are used to,


      Oh and by the way, if your in the UK on a working visa, any tax you pay can be reclaimed, so it’s a real carrot for those who come here, whereas the indigenous ppl get shafted time and again, since that F**kin Bitch Thatcher killed off the biggest union (the Miners) the UK government has systematically bullied the working classes into submission,(particularly Tories) any union we have now are no more powerful than a parish council, so the ordinary working man/ woman have no say, in matters relating to wages or disputes within your place of work, and now that’England’ (not Scotland) voted to come out of Europe it will get worse.


      I think you will find there are similarities between the UK & the States, reason being the States are predominantly a capitalist state, where here in the UK the Gov want it to become one, hence all the privatisation of major services like Trains, Telecommunications, water, Post office (mail) almost all the national services, the one they haven’t got yet is the NHS, National Health Service, that belongs to the ppl, but guess what the Tories want privatise that too so they can claim Wealth before health too, the Kunts.


      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #25: Nov 07, 2020 12:36:45 pm
      Back on topic, even though I was enjoying the to- and fro of the debate across the Atlantic!  Whatever else, the world should be a safer place without Trumpster in the White House. 

      Regarding the minute's silence thing:

      Who decides when/why we do the minute's silence/clap/black armbands etc?  What criteria are used? 

      Its all part of the public relations to show a 'human side' of the Premier League and win the sympathy vote from all and sundry.
      The Prem corporate fat cats love to rob everyone blind for what for most of us is almost a physical need (to support, watch, love, celebrate, be with people, become invested).  They feel they have to show us they care from time to time, I reckon.  Its good marketing.

      Look at any corporate website or marketing campaign these days and you'll see every possible token gesture nod towards any current news and social-media-worthy issue from gender, to race, to the environment.  It's all bollocks.  Oil companies say they're as GREEN as the Anfield grass while they destroy the planet.  The BBC claims to represent all minorities while being 90% white male middle class southerner led. 



      AJ
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #26: Nov 08, 2020 09:49:07 am
      Sorry to say but I think we are ruled by the media - if a public figure or anyone else who has been in the media warrants it, suddenly we take comfort in taking time to honour them.. there are too many people who deserve to have this honour and the shocking truth can be seen by the absence of those who are not remembered 😔

      I think we have to find a way to honour everyone, or don’t just stop honouring anyone. harsh but that’s my opinion unfortunately
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #27: Nov 22, 2020 07:06:38 pm
      Ray Clemence pre match today

      Totally appropriate and deserved.
      GERNS
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #28: Nov 23, 2020 08:34:26 pm
      I’m sure not many Liverpool Dane of the same era as Clem, needed the media corp to show their respect to the great man. I know I didn’t. And when the corporate fat cats suggest we wear black arm bands, take the knee, hold minutes silence or a minutes applause. I look on and often think, WTF is that all about ?
      I make my own decisions on what and who I show respect, and for why. I done need anyone to tell me what should be done, because that happens to be their opinion.
      May be that’s why I’ve worked for myself all my life, can’t be doing with being ordered to do stuff I don’t agree with, but do it to safeguard my job.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #29: Nov 25, 2020 06:33:28 pm
      RIP to  a great footballer ... but are we going to see applause / silence for Maradona ?

      We'll see.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #30: Nov 28, 2020 10:48:45 am
      RIP to  a great footballer ... but are we going to see applause / silence for Maradona ?

      We'll see.

      Yes.

      European games this week

      Toon v Palace last night. Maradona and The Knee.

      Today  Reds v Brighton will be the same.... and the rest of the Premier league.

      WHY ?

      Any connection with the UK clubs ? No.

      Maradona has admitted over the years that he scored against England with his hand and when he saw the the linesman plus ref hadn't seen it he celebrated to con them.
      So we are pre match celebrating a self admitted South American cheat.


      Luis got hung out to dry over Evra and slammed for his goal line hand ball for Uruguay.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #31: Dec 07, 2020 04:52:48 pm
      Hadn't realised that that the other English leagues weren't undertaking The Knee.

      Why still the premiership?

      Is it because it is televised around the world so it makes us look p.c.?

      Call me cynical.
      UncleBob
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #32: Dec 07, 2020 08:25:01 pm
      Hadn't realised that that the other English leagues weren't undertaking The Knee.

      Why still the premiership?

      Is it because it is televised around the world so it makes us look p.c.?

      Call me cynical.

      The thing I don’t get about it is that it’s compulsary. I’m all for equality and such like, but why don’t we mix it about. One week take the knee to highlight racism. Next week all lie down to support Palestine. Week after all clap to support homosexuals. Week after do something else to support mental health. Then start again.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #33: Dec 07, 2020 08:59:29 pm
      Quote from MIRO
      Hadn't realised that that the other English leagues weren't undertaking The Knee.

      Why still the premiership?

      Is it because it is televised around the world so it makes us look p.c.?

      Call me cynical.

      None of the other major leagues are going through the chore before every game. Even countries where racism and rights issues are much more serious issues than in England.

      6 months it's been going on now. What has it achieved?
      GERNS
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #34: Dec 07, 2020 09:57:40 pm
      So Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee, and are railed as racist. No respect for BLM. What about freedom of choice. If you don't wish to take the knee, that doesn't brand you as racist, only in the eyes of the likes of Sterling, Hamilton, Dion Dublin etc. A couple of my best mates used to go and support Millwall when they lived in the area. That was their team. Including all the scrapping and abuse. They're Black ! So what are they gonna do with the Black guys who boo taking the knee ?
      It's run its course, its not having any impact any more, Its served its purpose, FFS Move on. If anything, its now having a negative effect.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #35: Dec 07, 2020 10:38:11 pm
      So Millwall fans boo the taking of the knee, and are railed as racist. No respect for BLM. What about freedom of choice. If you don't wish to take the knee, that doesn't brand you as racist, only in the eyes of the likes of Sterling, Hamilton, Dion Dublin etc. A couple of my best mates used to go and support Millwall when they lived in the area. That was their team. Including all the scrapping and abuse. They're Black ! So what are they gonna do with the Black guys who boo taking the knee ?
      It's run its course, its not having any impact any more, Its served its purpose, FFS Move on. If anything, its now having a negative effect.


      I'm in agreement, I don't support the movement of BLM (( against some of their policy's ))  but against racism yet many will see that I'm being racist.   :f_steam: Which is total bullshit. I think/feel many footballers bullied into kneeling fearing repercussions from social media.

      Catch 22 for so many of us but worse for those in the public eye.
      billythered
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #36: Dec 08, 2020 05:37:38 am
      It may seem pointless to you guys, taking the knee, and you may feel it has run its course, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I think the point their trying to get across is to keep it going and that racism needs to be stamped out totally,

      I’ve said this before, if it was to stop suddenly then the fear is that once again such statements or action against the racists would fade and eventually nothing would seem to be getting done about it, continuing to take the knee is simply sustaining that racism of any form is or won’t be tolerated, it doesn’t cost you anything it shouldn’t bother you in any way, and it only takes a few seconds, so what is the problem?





      I’m slightly more concerned that ((Keith)) has to use double brackets to emphasise a point he’s making,
      (( what’s all that about)) Keith ? 🤪



      DBM




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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #37: Dec 08, 2020 05:57:28 am
      I'm in agreement, I don't support the movement of BLM (( against some of their policy's ))  but against racism yet many will see that I'm being racist.   :f_steam: Which is total bullshit. I think/feel many footballers bullied into kneeling fearing repercussions from social media.

      Catch 22 for so many of us but worse for those in the public eye.

      When the kneeling began, I thought it was stated that it was in opposition to racism per se, rather than in support of BLM as an organization (because of some of those policies).

      When it stops (kneeling) I expect some statement about, "we've tried to make our point and don't want to lose impact, but we will continue to look for real actions to fight racism."
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #38: Dec 08, 2020 04:24:40 pm
      It may seem pointless to you guys, taking the knee, and you may feel it has run its course, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I think the point their trying to get across is to keep it going and that racism needs to be stamped out totally,

      I’ve said this before, if it was to stop suddenly then the fear is that once again such statements or action against the racists would fade and eventually nothing would seem to be getting done about it, continuing to take the knee is simply sustaining that racism of any form is or won’t be tolerated, it doesn’t cost you anything it shouldn’t bother you in any way, and it only takes a few seconds, so what is the problem?





      I’m slightly more concerned that ((Keith)) has to use double brackets to emphasise a point he’s making,
      (( what’s all that about)) Keith ? 🤪



      DBM




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      Basically Billy one example of the BLM policy is to defund the police force, well I'll never be for that mate.
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #39: Dec 31, 2020 07:35:27 pm
      So

      The acid test .

      Don't want to be disrespectful but.......

      Are we and all the Premier League expected to  have a minute's silence or a clap for Tommy Docherty ?

      We'll see.


      Robby The Z
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #40: Dec 31, 2020 08:14:35 pm
      So

      The acid test .

      Don't want to be disrespectful but.......

      Are we and all the Premier League expected to  have a minute's silence or a clap for Tommy Docherty ?

      We'll see.

      Did all the other clubs/grounds have a minute's applause for Houllier?
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #41: Dec 31, 2020 09:30:08 pm
      I live in the US and I'm a cop, so in a lot of ways I get looked eyed all kinds of cross from some of you guys. I see where you said the US is dysfunctional, and I don't know if I agree. I think most people think we are because that's what the mainstream media say. But the media is sh*t, plain and simple. They paint the country as 2 different sides, and most people don't adhere to that. Most people I know could give a f**k about the left or the right, or defunding the police, or socialism, etc. Most people around here in Central VA  don't care if your black or white , or police, of gay or straight. Life is too busy for that and generally people are bigger than that. They have COVID to deal with, and money to think about. Their kids have sports and they need to pick something up for dinner. The typical person is just trying to get by, not in a miltia or ANTIFA

      I work narcotics, so I'm detached in personal experience on what a road cops life has been like the past 10 months, but all my guys tell me people have been cool and understanding. Granted I live in Central VA, a few hours away from a major city. Still, people know who we are as people and don't judge us by the acts of the few. The George Floyd situation was awful, it doesn't take a cop or a rocket scientist to see that. Unfortunately there are bad apples in every walk of life, but when a cop is bad its even worse because of the consequences being so dire.

      Unfortunately it was an electon year though, and so many things were spun to fit a political narrative. I do agree that hopefully things will calm down here and around the world now that it is over. It sickens me to see the media try to divide a country for personal gain. But they've all used Covid 19 to fit their agenda, sooo. I would like to see teams get away from kneeling before each game as imo all it does is keep the discussion alive when it was way more complicated then it was painted out to be.

      Just my two cents
      David Wright
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #42: Dec 31, 2020 11:06:13 pm
      Always have believed people should be treated with the same respect as they treat you, in any walk of life. I have always felt that way and am fortunate to have many good friends. I believe taking the knee has run it's course and we need to move on.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #43: Jan 01, 2021 02:01:09 am
      Any thing that annoys racists keep taking the knee!
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #44: Jan 01, 2021 04:38:40 am
      So

      The acid test .

      Don't want to be disrespectful but.......

      Are we and all the Premier League expected to  have a minute's silence or a clap for Tommy Docherty ?

      We'll see.




      Not sure why all clubs would do it but certainly the ones he's been associated with...
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #45: Jan 01, 2021 04:57:11 am
      Not sure why all clubs would do it but certainly the ones he's been associated with...

      Blanket rule these days.

      Not like it's an issue, players and officials only clapping, not like there's any fans allowed in at the moment!
      billythered
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #46: Jan 01, 2021 07:50:27 am
      Not sure why all clubs would do it but certainly the ones he's been associated with...





      Yes, that would be fitting, good old fashioned manager was the ‘Doc’ knew how to get the best out of his players, not one you messed with he was giving out the hair dryer treatment way before Fergie ever did, condolences to his family.

      RIP Tommy
      MIRO
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #47: Jan 01, 2021 10:00:37 am
      I live in the US and I'm a cop, so in a lot of ways I get looked eyed all kinds of cross from some of you guys. I see where you said the US is dysfunctional, and I don't know if I agree. I think most people think we are because that's what the mainstream media say. But the media is sh*t, plain and simple. They paint the country as 2 different sides, and most people don't adhere to that. Most people I know could give a f**k about the left or the right, or defunding the police, or socialism, etc. Most people around here in Central VA  don't care if your black or white , or police, of gay or straight. Life is too busy for that and generally people are bigger than that. They have COVID to deal with, and money to think about. Their kids have sports and they need to pick something up for dinner. The typical person is just trying to get by, not in a miltia or ANTIFA

      I work narcotics, so I'm detached in personal experience on what a road cops life has been like the past 10 months, but all my guys tell me people have been cool and understanding. Granted I live in Central VA, a few hours away from a major city. Still, people know who we are as people and don't judge us by the acts of the few. The George Floyd situation was awful, it doesn't take a cop or a rocket scientist to see that. Unfortunately there are bad apples in every walk of life, but when a cop is bad its even worse because of the consequences being so dire.

      Unfortunately it was an electon year though, and so many things were spun to fit a political narrative. I do agree that hopefully things will calm down here and around the world now that it is over. It sickens me to see the media try to divide a country for personal gain. But they've all used Covid 19 to fit their agenda, sooo. I would like to see teams get away from kneeling before each game as imo all it does is keep the discussion alive when it was way more complicated then it was painted out to be.

      Just my two cents

      Very relevant especially what you say about the political spin .

      Your last sentence makes a lot of sense.

      Good Post !
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #48: Jan 01, 2021 11:40:16 am
      I live in the US and I'm a cop, so in a lot of ways I get looked eyed all kinds of cross from some of you guys. I see where you said the US is dysfunctional, and I don't know if I agree. I think most people think we are because that's what the mainstream media say. But the media is sh*t, plain and simple. They paint the country as 2 different sides, and most people don't adhere to that. Most people I know could give a f**k about the left or the right, or defunding the police, or socialism, etc. Most people around here in Central VA  don't care if your black or white , or police, of gay or straight. Life is too busy for that and generally people are bigger than that. They have COVID to deal with, and money to think about. Their kids have sports and they need to pick something up for dinner. The typical person is just trying to get by, not in a miltia or ANTIFA

      I work narcotics, so I'm detached in personal experience on what a road cops life has been like the past 10 months, but all my guys tell me people have been cool and understanding. Granted I live in Central VA, a few hours away from a major city. Still, people know who we are as people and don't judge us by the acts of the few. The George Floyd situation was awful, it doesn't take a cop or a rocket scientist to see that. Unfortunately there are bad apples in every walk of life, but when a cop is bad its even worse because of the consequences being so dire.

      Unfortunately it was an electon year though, and so many things were spun to fit a political narrative. I do agree that hopefully things will calm down here and around the world now that it is over. It sickens me to see the media try to divide a country for personal gain. But they've all used Covid 19 to fit their agenda, sooo. I would like to see teams get away from kneeling before each game as imo all it does is keep the discussion alive when it was way more complicated then it was painted out to be.

      Just my two cents

      It's a bloody good two cents too. They use to say money is the root of all evil as I grew up, don't know if that's the case where you live. However, in my opinion it's now changed. Social media is the root of all evil.

      Great post and actually tells more of what actually is going on and not listening to the tw*ts in the media telling us otherwise.
      UncleBob
      • Forum David Johnson
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      • 245 posts | 29 
      Re: Is it Empathy, Sympathy or What ?
      Reply #49: Jan 02, 2021 12:33:52 pm
      I take a knee every time I use a vending machine or get on a bus. and just when I am about to be served at Asda I take a knee. And I feel it’s important to take a knee each time the postman knocks on my door.
      When children point at me in the street and ask their folks what I am doing I am sure they are getting into discussion about race equality and social injustice.

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