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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Man City?

      Alisson Becker
      20 (25.6%)
      Trent Alexander-Arnold
      1 (1.3%)
      Andy Robertson
      24 (30.8%)
      Joel Matip
      5 (6.4%)
      Joe Gomez
      4 (5.1%)
      Jordan Henderson
      9 (11.5%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      5 (6.4%)
      Diogo Jota
      0 (0%)
      Mohammed Salah
      0 (0%)
      Roberto Firmino
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      10 (12.8%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Xherdan Shaqiri
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 76

      Voting closed: Nov 12, 2020 06:24:55 pm

      Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      clint_call01
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      • Ynwa... lfc till I die !
      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #598: Nov 09, 2020 05:18:42 am
      I went for Henderson as Motm. He played so many passes that found their man and was focused all the time.

      Nowadays Gomez's pen is a penalty. I do not agree but that are the rules.

      Mane's pen was soft but again it was nonetheless.

      Hope Trent is ok. Hope everyone comes back alright.
      billythered
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #599: Nov 09, 2020 05:19:28 am
      Bobby is in awful form and has been for a while. He isn’t bringing much to the team at all (if anything) currently. Even his off the ball work has been poor. I can’t remember when he last regained possession for us and he used to do it a dozen times per game.

      As for Klopp, he’s very much about team morale. Firstly, if he benches Firmino for half a dozen games then it creates headlines. The media will be all over it and rumours will creep in about bobby being unhappy and there will be all kinds of transfer stories.

      Secondly, it’s rare klopp signs somebody and throws them straight into the team. He persisted with plenty of Brendan Rodgers signings for a long, long time when we could all see they weren’t good enough.

      We all love Bobby and you don’t turn into a sh*t player overnight, he’s still world class, but it’s come to the point now where Jürgen has to seriously consider taking him out for a few games. It’ll probably do him a world of good knowing he has serious competition in Jota.






      I agree with you up to a point mate and some will see this as me contradicting myself, it is a fact Bobby isn’t the Bobby we know, however, even though he isn’t quite at the races right now there is no one else that can do what Bobby does, Salah & Mane know him inside out, they both know what he is likely to do in certain situations, his little flicks & tricks are just not coming off atm, but Jürgen obviously still trusts him even if he is off the boil, he still picks him, and we all trust Jürgen don’t we ?


      I thought a few weeks back that Bobby needed to drop out for a game or three, that he looked jaded, I think that is still the case, I think it would do him the world of good, but Jürgen knows how he is, he sees him every day at Melwood, and will have him in his side even if he is half baked, you would have thought tho that now Jota has settled that he would take Bobby’s place temporarily, and allow that time off for Bobby, it’s a long long season and I fear for Bobby not making it all the way thru in his current guise.




                                                                                  Y  N  W  A
      JD
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #600: Nov 09, 2020 09:24:01 am
      I agree with you up to a point mate and some will see this as me contradicting myself, it is a fact Bobby isn’t the Bobby we know, however, even though he isn’t quite at the races right now there is no one else that can do what Bobby does, Salah & Mane know him inside out, they both know what he is likely to do in certain situations, his little flicks & tricks are just not coming off atm, but Jürgen obviously still trusts him even if he is off the boil, he still picks him, and we all trust Jürgen don’t we ?

      The only passing comment I can make on yesterday was that we played better in the hour that Firmino was on the pitch than the thirty minutes that he wasn't.

      Obviously that could have been coincidence but I think they had better control of the midfield in that last half an hour and possibly a bit more time.

      Anyway, on paper at least, that was our hardest game of the season.  Away at the second best team in the league last year.  Think a point is a decent result in that regard.  Overall, we have seen a definite improvement in the past few weeks even without the likes of Keita, Thiago and Fabinho and with a drop in form for Firmino.

      Hopefully after the international break we have more bodies, not less, available.
      DanMann
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #601: Nov 09, 2020 09:24:38 am




      You have no f***in clue what you are on about, your Sphincter must be red raw with all that Sh*te pouring thru it,

      Oh and Emre Can fu**ed off because he thought he was bigger than the club tried to hold us to ransom but in truth he was just a average midfield player who couldn’t be arsed to work his tits off for his peers.

      In Layman’s terms.....A Lazy C**t, but unlike you......A Stupid C**t !



                                       
                                                                                 Y  N  W  A

       :lmao: :lmao:

      All this swearing just demonstrates you have nothing worthwhile to say.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #602: Nov 09, 2020 09:29:36 am
      The only passing comment I can make on yesterday was that we played better in the hour that Firmino was on the pitch than the thirty minutes that he wasn't.

      Obviously that could have been coincidence but I think they had better control of the midfield in that last half an hour and possibly a bit more time.

      Anyway, on paper at least, that was our hardest game of the season.  Away at the second best team in the league last year.  Think a point is a decent result in that regard.  Overall, we have seen a definite improvement in the past few weeks even without the likes of Keita, Thiago and Fabinho and with a drop in form for Firmino.

      Hopefully after the international break we have more bodies, not less, available.

      We had already started to drop our intensity before Bobby was subbed.

      Also losing TAA at the 60 min mark stifled our attack a lot more than Bobby coming off did.
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #603: Nov 09, 2020 09:58:41 am
      The only passing comment I can make on yesterday was that we played better in the hour that Firmino was on the pitch than the thirty minutes that he wasn't.

      Obviously that could have been coincidence but I think they had better control of the midfield in that last half an hour and possibly a bit more time.

      Anyway, on paper at least, that was our hardest game of the season.  Away at the second best team in the league last year.  Think a point is a decent result in that regard.  Overall, we have seen a definite improvement in the past few weeks even without the likes of Keita, Thiago and Fabinho and with a drop in form for Firmino.

      Hopefully after the international break we have more bodies, not less, available.

      Sorry but that is pure coincidence, in the last 30 minutes we didn't get anywhere near their penalty area, we were just looking to see out the game, not helped by Trent going off for Milner. I honestly can't think of anything constructive Bobby did yesterday, passes which led to good opportunities etc, counter pressing etc, he has become a passenger in the team and when the ball fell to him in the first minute I groaned in the same way I do when it falls to Henderson knowing that there is only a very small chance of a goal.

      Overall I thought it was a solid team performance but I was dissapointed in the lack of ambition the final 30 minutes, but perhaps we simply ran out of gas.
      ConzS
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #604: Nov 09, 2020 10:06:06 am
      Disagree. Our shape changes depending on where the ball is and who is in possession.

      Against city especially, mane is going to naturally drop in deeper whenever they have the ball. Salah did too in the first half. But mane was still on the left and salah was still on the right with Bobby in the middle.

      So we were 4-3–3 in possession and if anything, we changed to a 4-5-1 whenever city had possession. We didn’t press their back four like usual and we let them have the ball which surprised me. Klopp showed them too much respect in my opinion because I think we could have forced them into making mistakes. Their back four is awful.

      I focused a lot on Jotas positioning and he was playing Hendersons usual position when Fabinho is in the team. He was playing on the right of the midfield three, covering the space that salah leaves, and I felt he was wasted there. I think it was a mistake putting our man in form after just scoring a hat trick in the midfield.

      If anything, we moved to 4-4-2 when Shaq came on. He seemed to be firmly on the right side of midfield with salah up top. Even then it was more of a 4-5-1 though, shaq was just more disciplined than salah was in the first half, probably under Klopps orders.
      What was clear, at least to me, is that Salah and Firmino were the most advanced, certainly when we were out of possession. I would say it was pretty clear it was a 4-4-2, not sure what the commentators were talking about with a 4-2-4. Certainly didn’t see our normal 4-3–3 either although Mane did press high a few times in that first half, one of which led to their goal. Occasionally Firmino dropped a little deeper so it looked like a 4-2-3-1 as well.

      Our game is obviously fluid and we don’t have a fixed system for the full match but I thought that 4-4-2 was pretty prominent in the first half. Mane and Jota were very wide and quite deep and, as probably our 2 most in form attacking players, not able to get forward as much as we’d like.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #605: Nov 09, 2020 10:26:09 am
      What was clear, at least to me, is that Salah and Firmino were the most advanced, certainly when we were out of possession. I would say it was pretty clear it was a 4-4-2, not sure what the commentators were talking about with a 4-2-4. Certainly didn’t see our normal 4-3–3 either although Mane did press high a few times in that first half, one of which led to their goal. Occasionally Firmino dropped a little deeper so it looked like a 4-2-3-1 as well.

      Our game is obviously fluid and we don’t have a fixed system for the full match but I thought that 4-4-2 was pretty prominent in the first half. Mane and Jota were very wide and quite deep and, as probably our 2 most in form attacking players, not able to get forward as much as we’d like.

      If we were playing 4-4-2 then Salah would have been central but he was still on the right hand side. Mane was just more disciplined than him and did a better job with his positioning. I think that’s why Shaqiri came on in the second half and salah was then moved central, because shaq was doing what mane was doing but on our right hand side.

      Jota was deep, but he wasn’t playing on the flank. He was in the middle as part of the three. Occasionally covered the wing which is the space that salah leaves behind. Just like gini covers the space behind mane at times too.

      It doesn’t really matter anyway, the point of all this was that I was surprised Jürgen picked bobby over jota to lead the line for us. A mistake in my opinion. 
      skamp
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #606: Nov 09, 2020 10:34:31 am
      Strange game, but as we've lost the last 3 PL games there, a draw was always a more than decent result.

      For the first 25 minutes we were superb with everything but the final ball; quick passing, fluent movement up front with Mane & Salah looking particularly sharp.  Once again though, the number of great positions we got into without ultimately troubling the keeper was so frustrating; build up play fantastic, but final execution poor.

      Overall play though in that opening spell was fantastic, with Hendo snapping at City's heels, frequently coming away with the ball.  As well as our great attacking play, we also restricted them going forward, as they didn't register a single attempt in the opening 25 mins.

      Once they got the goal which largely resulted from Mane's unnecessary press pulling Gini out of position, they started to exert more control of the game.

      The second half, after the first 10 mins, was largely a damp squib.  Not sure if that was us settling for a draw, or running out of energy after an intense first half following on from a Euro away trip, or maybe even Firmino going off played a part in us losing an attacking threat the last half hour.  Not sure, but that's for our tactical gurus to shed light on, maybe.

      Anyway, all things told, a point there is an improvement on the previous 3 seasons; hope the injury to Trent is only minor, Matip had a decent game defensively in a tough comeback match (albeit his passing was woeful), the stats show we restricted them to only 7 shots on goal in the entire match, so we were doing something right defensively.

      Hopefully have Thiago & Fab back after the international break, which gives us some great options in MF.

      Still make us favourites for the title, and if injuries aren't too much of a factor, think we can also go very deep in the CL, despite no VVD.

      COYR!!!
      ConzS
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #607: Nov 09, 2020 10:45:04 am
      If we were playing 4-4-2 then Salah would have been central but he was still on the right hand side. Mane was just more disciplined than him and did a better job with his positioning. I think that’s why Shaqiri came on in the second half and salah was then moved central, because shaq was doing what mane was doing but on our right hand side.

      Jota was deep, but he wasn’t playing on the flank. He was in the middle as part of the three. Occasionally covered the wing which is the space that salah leaves behind. Just like gini covers the space behind mane at times too.

      It doesn’t really matter anyway, the point of all this was that I was surprised Jürgen picked bobby over jota to lead the line for us. A mistake in my opinion.
      Yeah think we just agree to disagree on this one mate, thought Mo was far more central than he usually is, would say he was on the right side of a 2 rather than a 3. Off the ball Jota was directly in front of TAA with Mane the same on Robbo’s side, they both tucked in when we had the ball creating a 4-2-2-2 of sorts. I had some pictures in play I was trying to upload from my phone but no idea how to do it. Must say I paid less attention in the second half as the beer took hold so can’t say with any certainty what we were set out like, although I know we barely had a sniff.
      Tayls
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #608: Nov 09, 2020 11:38:15 am
      If we were playing 4-4-2 then Salah would have been central but he was still on the right hand side. Mane was just more disciplined than him and did a better job with his positioning. I think that’s why Shaqiri came on in the second half and salah was then moved central, because shaq was doing what mane was doing but on our right hand side.

      Jota was deep, but he wasn’t playing on the flank. He was in the middle as part of the three. Occasionally covered the wing which is the space that salah leaves behind. Just like gini covers the space behind mane at times too.

      It doesn’t really matter anyway, the point of all this was that I was surprised Jürgen picked bobby over jota to lead the line for us. A mistake in my opinion. 

      It was mostly a 4-4-2, as Klopp said post match:

      Quote
      On fielding Roberto Firmino, Diogo Jota, Mane and Salah in the starting XI, and whether it was a specific tactic for facing City…

      When you can do it against City then you can do it against other teams as well. It will not be our new, all-the-time [formation] but there are moments when we might use it. That’s very helpful for us. Usually people know which system we play, that’s now water under the bridge. From now on we can play three or four different systems, which is good, and tonight it worked really well. We wanted to use the skills and the power of the four up front in specific moments to cause City problems, that’s one thing. The other thing is that we all like to prepare a game in the way that we know exactly what the opponent is doing and Pep, I don’t think he knew we would play 4-4-2. It’s not important but it needed a while for City to adapt to it, that was the plan for today. We will not have used that the last time.
      https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/415324-Jürgen-klopp-manchester-city-press-conference

      We seemed to be allowing their centre backs to have the ball and just trying to use Bobby and Mo to shut the passing lanes to Rodri. It forced them to play slightly longer and I thought it worked pretty well for 20-25 minutes. We played really well and I was just hoping we'd score a second, because you know City will come back into the game. I was surprised we didn't bring Shaq on more centrally when he came on, it felt in the second half as if we'd lost control, and as much of a threat going forwards, and I thought he might come on as a third central midfielder.

      I like the versatility our front line affords us now, we can line up with a few different personnel in the usual 4-3-3, or in a more structured 4-2-3-1, or the more aggressive 4-4-2 we saw last night.
      redindian
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #609: Nov 09, 2020 11:40:39 am
      Happy with how we have responded after the 7-2 at Villa and the loss of Vvd. We were supposed to be at our most vulnerable moment after that, especially with the loss of Vvd, Thiago, Fab and Ali, before the boys produce some great results. I would have taken these results had they been offered during the last break (except for the results at Bitters).

      Mentality monsters!
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #610: Nov 09, 2020 01:39:12 pm
      Happy with how we have responded after the 7-2 at Villa and the loss of Vvd. We were supposed to be at our most vulnerable moment after that, especially with the loss of Vvd, Thiago, Fab and Ali, before the boys produce some great results. I would have taken these results had they been offered during the last break (except for the results at Bitters).

      Mentality monsters!

      Yeah I agree, we are in a great position after a tough set of opening fixtures. We now have Leicester in 2 weeks which will be tricky but then a run of fixtures which on paper should be very winnable, then Spurs at the beginning of December but otherwise not too bad. Then get an extra CB in January and we should be looking very good.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #611: Nov 09, 2020 05:57:17 pm
      Robbo MOTM for sure with Alisson behind him. No one else really stuck out and none of the front 4 were really good.

      You could tell Mo was asked to basically do an old school centre-forwards job yesterday, which was chase everything.
      tezmac
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #612: Nov 09, 2020 06:29:25 pm
      Any news on Trent
      jimbo1962
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #613: Nov 09, 2020 07:01:06 pm
      Feels a bit like a loss
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #614: Nov 09, 2020 09:17:34 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Agreed. I think Jota scored 7 in 10 before this game and for somebody who has mostly been an impact player coming on for the last 20 mins of games that’s very impressive.

      Bobby is in dire form and has been for a while. I don’t know what’s happened to him. His goal scoring was never a big concern for me because of how good he is off the ball and how he brings the best out of both salah and mane but he is offering us zilch right now and it’s like playing with ten men.

      I thought it was a strange choice by klopp after Jotas performance midweek to take him out of the forward role and persist with bobby. He’s just scored a hat trick, keep him in that position where he’s flying and confidence is sky high.

      I’m not a fan of bobby in the midfield but out the two of them I’d have had bobby the more deeper role, but surely we would have been more balanced if Keita or Milner started and Jota was upfront.

      Strange one.

      Jürgen will never play something that he doesn't trust, be it tactics or personnel. It took him 4 months to realise that Robbo was better than Moreno. And that was only because Moreno got injured. His default midfield for years was Hendo Milner and Wijnaldum. Alisson and VVD are automatic starters, be it against Manchester City or Norwich City. Firmino was never going to be dropped for this game. That's not stubbornness, it is tried and trusted. After that, it was just a question of if Jota would play. He did, but I didn't think 2 midfielders against one of the toughest midfield set ups was the way to go, as we would be exposed, which we were at times. Jota was nullified. Firmino sleepwalked his way through the game again, Mane was largely ineffective. In the second half, we just aimed long balls up the field and gave possession away.

      Watching City in full flow genuinely terrifies me, so I don't watch their games unless we're playing against them. Even when the pace slowed as the second half went on, I was still a nervous wreck whenever the ball was in our defensive third, but we got through it without too much bother.

      The turning point was their penalty. Penalties have been given for it before, and you knew that once it went to the monitor that it would be given. If that goes in, we're staring down at another heavy loss there. But it was missed and having lost our way for a period before it, we settled down after it and got our point, our first point there since 2017.

      The wider picture is we're 7 games unbeaten since the Villa game, 6 since the VVD injury. Not quite the apocalyptic scenarios predicted back them. We've also tightened up at the back considerably since then. Now we have a couple of weeks for injured players to recover, and a chance to go 8 clear of City by the time they play again. Just as we were after 8 games last season. Then there's a nice run of games for the players to rack up the points and pull away again before we face this lot again in February. Maybe we can get our fans back in by then....
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #615: Nov 10, 2020 03:15:09 pm
      Brian78
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #616: Nov 10, 2020 03:47:22 pm
      City are the most tactically astute, techically gifted team with some of the best individual players in the league and we were comfortable short at least 3 regulars, losing another important element on the 70 minute mark and playing a new system. That, to me is a great sign.

      Yes Leicester spurs maybe even utd are capable of huge performances or individual moments of brilliance that can cause us problems but that for me is the touhhest test done and dusted and we looked fine
      Scottbot
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #617: Nov 10, 2020 10:02:56 pm
      I'm still feeling really good about the point at the weekend. We've taken a few tough losses there over the years. I really didn't like the side when i saw the team, i figured we'd get completely overrun in midfield and struggle to get hold of the ball but hats off to Jürgen. Our record has been poor so he tried something different, I can't recall us ever setting up in 4-4-2 since Jürgen has been at the club? We played with directness in the first 30 minutes and until they scored their goal and settled down they didn't really get to grips with us. In the 2nd half i was shouting at the TV for a sub and a change of shape but We pretty much persisted with the same set up and held them to very few chances albeit our own creativity suffered with the loss of Trent and it felt like we were playing for the draw and not looking to overcommit.

      Us and City are still the best two sides in the division, comfortably in my opinion. After the robbery at woodison, the horror show at Villa and losing our most important player you have to be pretty happy with the recovery. Fingers crossed Trent is back soon and we also finally get to see Thiago play a few games consecutively in a red shirt and we'll be fine. The Firmino debate is all getting a bit overplayed for me, yes his form has dipped but he's a class act and we're sitting just off the top of the table. Some people need to have that one player out of form to get stuck into unfortunately.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #618: Nov 10, 2020 10:25:17 pm

      I read they are calling that a bullshit rumour and he'll be ready to go after the Internationals. Hope it's true!
      AJ
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      Re: Manchester City 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #619: Nov 12, 2020 02:13:33 pm

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