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      John Barnes comments.

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      Brian78
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      John Barnes comments.
      Nov 14, 2020 01:19:51 pm
      John Barnes stating that had Jürgen Klopp been black hecwould have been sacked in his first 2 years at Liverpool.

      Thoughts on this?

      For me its getting to the point of ridiculous now. Barnes knows first hand we are not a sacking club and managers in general get time. Dalglish probably the only one who didnt get the time deserved, pretty sure Kenny is white.

      Secondly Klopp arrived with a serious pedigree. Why would the board sack him after 2 seasons into his plan?

      Thirdly. What managers from an African, Caribbean, Asian background have proven themselves worthy of a top job? Barnes certainly didnt. He was a disaster at Celtic. Another always talking about this subject is Campbell, another who has done nothing with his chanced. Ince another.

      Does Barnes want his fellow BAME just put in rolls because they are BAME or whats hus issue here. At grassroots or lower league level if bame are not getting rolls or interviewed for rolls because of skin colour thats a different argument that needs looking at. But coming out making assumptions that had someone been black they would have been sacked is out of order. Hes no evidence to back that claim up.

      While a total of 9 bame managers ever in the premier league is shockingly low has Barnes investigated the following..

      How many bame were interviewed by prem league clubs over the history of the league.

      . Of those overlooked how many white managers who got the job proved to be the correct selection by reaching the goals set out

      . Of those white managers selected over bame who failed to reach goals were sacked as quick as John suggests Klopp would have had he been black..

      . Can John provide a list of bame who have been outstanding in a manager position to suggest a premier league club should hire them?

      9 premier league managers in history, looks bad but so does the record of the 9. Chris Hughton could be argued done a good job. Guillit? Tigana I always felt did a decent job at Fulham. And Santo at Wolves. Rest arguably forgettable.
      « Last Edit: Nov 14, 2020 01:47:29 pm by Brian78 »
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #1: Nov 14, 2020 01:41:38 pm
      I know this, if a white person had said it he/she would be sacked from what ever job they were in.
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #2: Nov 14, 2020 01:52:04 pm
      I know this, if a white person had said it he/she would be sacked from what ever job they were in.

      Its the assumption with no evidence. We all know the ignorance thats out there. People of all creeds and backgrounds are discriminated against. Overlooked at once because of colour, nationality orientation or gender. Its disgusting....But what Johns done here is accused a club of holding someone in employment because they were white, had they been black they were gone. He has nothing to back that up.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #3: Nov 14, 2020 01:59:11 pm
      Its the assumption with no evidence. We all know the ignorance thats out there. People of all creeds and backgrounds are discriminated against. Overlooked at once because of colour, nationality orientation or gender. Its disgusting....But what Johns done here is accused a club of holding someone in employment because they were white, had they been black they were gone. He has nothing to back that up.

      Absolutely Brian. Thing is, he will come out with a apology and think it's ok. Bit like the players who break covid and say they will learn from it.

      I'm still in shock from his comments, this is going to be massive on social media.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #4: Nov 14, 2020 02:00:04 pm
      Silly sensationalist comment from Barnes lacking any context.

      We all know there is a huge disparity in the number of black managers in football. Hopefully there will be more managerial opportunities for men and women of all races from now on.

      But to say a manager would be sacked by Liverpool FC on the basis he is black is just nonsense and does nothing to help the BLM situation.
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #5: Nov 14, 2020 02:03:59 pm
      Silly sensationalist comment from Barnes lacking any context.

      We all know there is a huge disparity in the number of black managers in football. Hopefully there will be more managerial opportunities for men and women of all races from now on.

      But to say a manager would be sacked by Liverpool FC on the basis he is black is just nonsense and does nothing to help the BLM situation.

      Agree with this. Its not even that he used us and Klopp its the whole way hes gone about it.

      The only thing to be fair to John is he also references English managers
      « Last Edit: Nov 14, 2020 02:10:37 pm by Brian78 »
      heimdall
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #6: Nov 14, 2020 02:40:51 pm
      Absolutely ridiculous thing for Barnes to say, I lost a lot of respect for him over this, but its natural for some idiotic BAME people to wallow in victimhood at the moment when the media are so intent on pursuing this BLM narrative, which in my opinion is doing far more harm than good to race relations as its pushing a positive discrimination narrative. Just to be clear ALL discrimination is bad it is never positive. Jobs should be awarded purely on merit, I actually think quite a lot of BAME players have been afforded management positions over the years with almost every single one of them being a complete disaster, including John Barnes, but instead of taking responsibility for that they find it easier to claim racism.
      David Wright
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #7: Nov 14, 2020 02:47:46 pm
      Strange comment for John Barnes to make, he should know LFC better than that, as a former player !
      Rush Goalie
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #8: Nov 14, 2020 03:31:29 pm
      Absolute bollocks I'd say. I'm not saying he's not got a point in any case that has ever been but he's way off with this example.
      Klopp almost had a dream start losing League Cup on pens and Europa League final, if anything he's been unlucky losing a CL final and finishing 2nd on 97 pts.
      Regardless of trophies/finals it was obvious to see Jürgen was making progress each year, he was a proven winner in Germany and he's proved it again now, bad example John..
      ConzS
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #9: Nov 14, 2020 03:42:44 pm
      It’s comments like these that really undermines the subject and discredits a lot of the good work done to try overcome these issues. Barnes is doing nobody any favours with these comments and the cynical side of me thinks he is doing this just to make headlines. Maybe missing out on ‘I’m a Celebrity’ deprived of him of the attention he needed.
      billythered
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #10: Nov 14, 2020 03:51:33 pm
      Absolutely ridiculous thing for Barnes to say, I lost a lot of respect for him over this, but its natural for some idiotic BAME people to wallow in victimhood at the moment when the media are so intent on pursuing this BLM narrative, which in my opinion is doing far more harm than good to race relations as its pushing a positive discrimination narrative. Just to be clear ALL discrimination is bad it is never positive. Jobs should be awarded purely on merit, I actually think quite a lot of BAME players have been afforded management positions over the years with almost every single one of them being a complete disaster, including John Barnes, but instead of taking responsibility for that they find it easier to claim racism.





      Not very often I concur with you Heimy but get the bunting out mate because you are absolutely spot on here, love Digger, his views on most subjects are acceptable and normally fair, but he’s way off the mark here, if a player isn’t up to it when it comes to managing a football team it matters not a jot the colour of his skin, you are either good at organising, can coach, train your players, set up different system’s to accommodate the abilities of your player or you f***in can’t , simple as that, it’s got f**k all to do with race,
      There have been plenty of white football managers who have failed down the years, so it’s no different then if you so happen to be black, suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy theory is ridiculous, we are all aware of the injustice in some quarters and it’s absolutely right that they should be addressed and to a point address the balance but only if those applicants are fit to fill those roles and not because of their skin colour,

      Sorry Digger me old mucker but you are gassing out of your sphincter !



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      bigbob75
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #11: Nov 14, 2020 04:13:05 pm
      I’m going to ignore this as he is my hero  :laugh:
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #12: Nov 14, 2020 05:03:55 pm
      A hero to many of us. But as John Barnes, John Barnes the footballer, John Barnes the man. Not as John Barnes the black footballer or John Barnes the black man..

      Until we remove colour from the conversation we will always have underlying issues...Im a man, a person, dont class me as a white man
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #13: Nov 14, 2020 06:08:17 pm
      Possibly his own experience at Celtic might have something to do with his view.
      bmck
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #14: Nov 14, 2020 06:35:48 pm
      Just another example of people trying to strong arm their views into any conversation.
      'had Jürgen Klopp been black he would have been sacked in his first 2 years at Liverpool'
      If my Auntie had a cock she'd be my Uncle.
      So f**king what.
      king kenny
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #15: Nov 14, 2020 06:37:16 pm
      Absolute bollocks I'd say. I'm not saying he's not got a point in any case that has ever been but he's way off with this example.
      Klopp almost had a dream start losing League Cup on pens and Europa League final, if anything he's been unlucky losing a CL final and finishing 2nd on 97 pts.
      Regardless of trophies/finals it was obvious to see Jürgen was making progress each year, he was a proven winner in Germany and he's proved it again now, bad example John..

      Totally agree if he wants to make a point he's used the wrong example.   Jürgen has never been in danger of losing his job and it wouldn't have been the case if he was Black or German.  He clearly was the perfect man for the job he was clearly showing progress. 
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #16: Nov 14, 2020 06:42:00 pm
      Just another example of people trying to strong arm their views into any conversation.
      'had Jürgen Klopp been black he would have been sacked in his first 2 years at Liverpool'
      If my Auntie had a cock she'd be my Uncle.
      So f**king what.

      What you say is fact, about your aunt if she had a cock. What he said isnt fact its hearsay
      ed603em
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #17: Nov 15, 2020 04:08:38 pm
      He's been saying this for years and it is a direct result of his time at Celtic. His argument is that a successful football manager has a particular profile and that anyone who does not fit this profile is given less time in a job. He is saying that this profile is white and european, so people who are not either of those will not quite be given as long.

      It's his opinion, which he is entitled to, and the rest of us are also entitled to ours. Personally I think the piss-poor results when he was the Celtic manager had much more to do with him only being there for a few months.
      heimdall
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #18: Nov 15, 2020 05:53:41 pm
      He's been saying this for years and it is a direct result of his time at Celtic. His argument is that a successful football manager has a particular profile and that anyone who does not fit this profile is given less time in a job. He is saying that this profile is white and european, so people who are not either of those will not quite be given as long.

      It's his opinion, which he is entitled to, and the rest of us are also entitled to ours. Personally I think the piss-poor results when he was the Celtic manager had much more to do with him only being there for a few months.

      But is Barnes suggesting that if he was chairman he would have fired Klopp?
      GERNS
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #19: Nov 15, 2020 06:01:10 pm
      Digger was a great player. I think he’s still looking for a post player career, as everything he’s attempted since he stopped playing has been an epic fail 🤷‍♂️
      Some will try anything to stay in the spotlight !
      JD
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #20: Nov 16, 2020 12:12:37 am
      John Barnes stating that had Jürgen Klopp been black hecwould have been sacked in his first 2 years at Liverpool.

      Thoughts on this?

      Was there any further context or did he just randomly wake up and say this? Was this an interview or twitter or something else?

      I'm not sure any of us can form an objective opinion based solely on that one liner tbh.
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #21: Nov 16, 2020 08:08:24 am
      Quote
      Barnes was speaking in the wake of Greg Clarke's resignation from the FA after calling black footballers 'coloured.'

      John Barnes claims Jürgen Klopp would have been sacked by Liverpool in his first two seasons in charge “if he was black”.

      Klopp took charge at Anfield in October 2015 and led his team to eighth and fourth in his first two Premier League

      And Barnes insists Klopp would have lost his job “under different circumstances”.

      “You can put structures in place, but until you change your perception, nothing will change,’ Barnes told PlayOJO, in the wake of Greg Clarke’s resignation as FA chairman this week after calling black footballers ‘coloured.’

      “I use Klopp as an example,” Barnes continued. “How successful was he really in the first two years in terms of being 25 points off the top? But we [Liverpool] believed that he was the right man.

      “Under different circumstances, he would have lost his job. If he was black, he would have lost his job in those first two years.”

      Barnes also spoke of the discrimination against English managers.

      “If he [Klopp] was English, he would have lost his job,’ said Barnes.

      “This is where the idea of discrimination is a little bit strange because there’s a group of people who are discriminated against in English football and the very highest level in the Premier League.

      “Now, the top six teams will not have a white English manager. Yes, you can say Frank Lampard, as people have pointed out, but that’s because he has a special bond with Chelsea and that’s the only reason he managed Chelsea – but under different circumstances he wouldn’t have got that job.”

      Barnes added that the lack of BAME managers in the English football pyramid is not down to the specifics of the sport itself.

      “It’s nothing to do with black football managers,” he explains. “This is a wider issue because how many black managers are there in the higher echelons of any industry? And why should football be any different?

      “Until we tackle it in society, and we change our perceptions in society, it will exist in all walks of society, which football is one.”

      Quote
      JD
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #22: Nov 16, 2020 09:22:22 am
      Slightly more context there although obviously a bit of a PR thing for the gambling company!

      So he said that after 2 years being 25 points off the top would have seen an English or black manager sacked at Liverpool.

      Sadly I do think the media and a section of fans may well have applied more pressure under those circumstances. Who knows how that would have panned out.

      I think any white person who believes that black people are judged by the exact same standards is lying to themselves.

      Playing staff in the Premier League look completely different to the boardrooms and coaching staff.
      Brian78
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #23: Nov 16, 2020 09:36:07 am
      Slightly more context there although obviously a bit of a PR thing for the gambling company!

      So he said that after 2 years being 25 points off the top would have seen an English or black manager sacked at Liverpool.

      Sadly I do think the media and a section of fans may well have applied more pressure under those circumstances. Who knows how that would have panned out.

      I think any white person who believes that black people are judged by the exact same standards is lying to themselves.

      Playing staff in the Premier League look completely different to the boardrooms and coaching staff.

      John, nor anyone else has anything to back up the claim that Liverpool would sack someone sooner based on skin colout.

      No denying this world and football certsinly has issues around discrimination. But that does not allow for sweeping statements. Should a whote coach best man for a job noe be overlooked for a black man because of how society views this issue currently? Likewise should a eoman get a job ahead of a better placed man just to equal out gender balance?

      Is there no premier league black managers just maybe because none out there are good enough? Its going to happen a club will hire a black manager for the wrong reasons not because they are the right person for the job.

      No person of any background is denying issues exist in society but that cant allow for someone like Barnes to come out with statements like that. Was he sacked at Celtic because of his colour ir how he performed in his job?
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: John Barnes comments.
      Reply #24: Nov 16, 2020 04:53:32 pm
      The likes of Barnes and Cambell being sacked are for one reason. They were sh*te as a manager. PERIOD...

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