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      Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Aggerdoo
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #483: Nov 29, 2020 04:47:19 pm
      I'm happy we are still 2nd given given our injuries. We have 5 first team players injured and 4 fringe players injured (Keita, Shaq, Ox and Millie possibly)

      We have lost once only and that was a freak result. Performance wise recently has been laboured recently but we still have a good mentality.

      paulow63
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #484: Nov 29, 2020 05:55:38 pm
      It's a 28 game season starting with Wolverhampton at home.

      Contenders are us, Manchesters, Spurs and Chelsea.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #485: Nov 29, 2020 06:18:09 pm
      It's a 28 game season starting with Wolverhampton at home.

      Contenders are us, Manchesters, Spurs and Chelsea.

      Manchester with s on the end? Surely you don't think both clubs have a chance.?
      paulow63
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #486: Nov 29, 2020 06:29:34 pm
      Manchester with s on the end? Surely you don't think both clubs have a chance.?
      Well only going by a club that have spent £650 million pounds in the last four years and have the highest wage bill in the history of football should ought to.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #487: Nov 29, 2020 06:36:05 pm
      Well only going by a club that have spent £650 million pounds in the last four years and have the highest wage bill in the history of football should ought to.

      So you base our chances on money and not performance? Strange is that, based on what I've seen on the pitch there's only one Manchester in with a chance not two.
      paulow63
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #488: Nov 29, 2020 07:27:48 pm
      So you base our chances on money and not performance? Strange is that, based on what I've seen on the pitch there's only one Manchester in with a chance not two.
      Think your playing your chances down a little here. How many away games have you won in the Premier league since January? Sort your home form out and your there. Not withstanding you've beaten the Champions League Runners-up twice recently in their own backyard as well as noisy neighbours 3/4 last season. It's not all doom and gloom and that's why I make you genuine title Contenders.

      One of the five listed will win it. Most probably from the North West.

      UncleBob
      • Spotify Bob
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #489: Nov 29, 2020 07:27:49 pm
      We had a similiar penalty given our way against West Ham. By the same ref. Now if we argue that the Salah one was a penalty, (which it was imo) then if we're consistent, we can't argue against the one given in this game. We've seen those penalties in the "seen them given" category before, and no doubt we'll see them again.

      With my red hat on, I hate the 3 decisions go against us here. Without the hat on, then I can't dispute them. Whether you're classified as a "matchgoer" fan or not, then as with everything else in life, we must have justice done on a football pitch.

      But you can’t defend VAR by suggesting because they gave one decision they have to give the same decision to a similar incident.
      We have had some dodgy decisions go in our favour. I agree. But that’s not right. VAR should be clear cut.
      The fact that penalties and handballs and offsides are taking so long to decide and quite often are baffling suggests to me that VAR isn’t ready yet. Or perhaps VaR is ready but the directives are not clear. Either way it’s a mess.
      redtiler
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #490: Nov 29, 2020 07:46:39 pm
      So what should Robbo have done then, wait for the ball to reach Wellbeck and then wave him through, as any contact these days is a penalty? Robbo was clearly trying to clear the ball which he would have done if Wellbeck didn't stick his foot in front of Robbo's.
      It's got to the point now that an attacking player should just stick his foot in front of a defender trying to clear the ball and win a penalty and that is daft.
      The rules need to urgently be reviewed with respect to var and all replays should be done at full speed, slow Mo always distorts and exaggerates the event. Also there has to be an advantage to the attacking team in offsides, it needs to be a clear to the naked eye offside and an obvious error from the Linesman

      Linesmen and refs are hiding behind ths VAR, anyone who can run up and down a line for the 95 mins can be a linesman. Guess work at best.
      redtiler
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #491: Nov 29, 2020 07:48:11 pm
      So what should Robbo have done then, wait for the ball to reach Wellbeck and then wave him through, as any contact these days is a penalty? Robbo was clearly trying to clear the ball which he would have done if Wellbeck didn't stick his foot in front of Robbo's.
      It's got to the point now that an attacking player should just stick his foot in front of a defender trying to clear the ball and win a penalty and that is daft.
      The rules need to urgently be reviewed with respect to var and all replays should be done at full speed, slow Mo always distorts and exaggerates the event. Also there has to be an advantage to the attacking team in offsides, it needs to be a clear to the naked eye offside and an obvious error from the Linesman

      Linesmen and refs are hiding behind ths VAR, anyone who can run up and down a line for the 95 mins can be a linesman. Guess work at best.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #492: Nov 29, 2020 07:55:25 pm
      Think your playing your chances down a little here. How many away games have you won in the Premier league since January? Sort your home form out and your there. Not withstanding you've beaten the Champions League Runners-up twice recently in their own backyard as well as noisy neighbours 3/4 last season. It's not all doom and gloom and that's why I make you genuine title Contenders.

      One of the five listed will win it. Most probably from the North West.



      I don't play down our chances Paul, openly said Ole can't take us to the next  level as he simply hasn't got what it takes. Today they played well but it certainly wasn't a side that looked like top 4, at best maybe top 6 but plenty of improvement needed before then if you think United have a chance of fighting for the title. However, lets hope you're right.   ;D
      paulow63
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #493: Nov 29, 2020 08:19:31 pm
      I don't play down our chances Paul, openly said Ole can't take us to the next  level as he simply hasn't got what it takes. Today they played well but it certainly wasn't a side that looked like top 4, at best maybe top 6 but plenty of improvement needed before then if you think United have a chance of fighting for the title. However, lets hope you're right.   ;D
      No, the original point I was making if you two Manchester teams win games in hand then between Liverpool, City, United, Chelsea and Spurs there's only 3 points between all five making it a 28 game season from now on in with supporting casts from Leicester, Leeds, Brighton, Villa, Wolves and possibly Everton. With an average of 2.1 points per game that means about 76/77 points to win the league but most probably 83/86 will win it this season.

      Apologies but this maybe shud've gone in Prem thread by now.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #494: Nov 29, 2020 10:58:37 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      The debate was whether VAR should have been introduced or not. Im not being biased because it went against us, but in my opinion the game should have carried on and VAR shouldn’t have been brought in for that specific incident.

      The game needs to flow and it’s got to the point now where every decision is slowed down and analysed and you can pick fault with almost anything. It’s a joke.

      As it's a penalty area incident, the VAR automatically looks at it. There's no debate to be had on that point. The game had already stopped by that time, so it's a natural break in play.

      If you agree that it's a penalty, then VAR was required because it wasn't given on the pitch. That's why it's not going anywhere. Kevin Friend did his job the way he's supposed to do it, and the correct decision was then made.

      That doesn't make it any easier to take, but I can't argue whether it's the right decision or not. If you know what the rule is, you know what the decision should be. I really wonder if the ref gave it originally, whether the reaction would have been what it is.
      David Wright
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #495: Nov 29, 2020 11:09:50 pm
      I think with VAR, tv companies running the times of kick offs etc , football ain't what it used to be, to say the least.
      Del Boca Vista
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      • do do do
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #496: Nov 29, 2020 11:43:20 pm
      corruption has purposefully gone into overdrive in 2020, save your soul now it'll only get harder to follow this game
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #497: Nov 29, 2020 11:46:27 pm
      As it's a penalty area incident, the VAR automatically looks at it. There's no debate to be had on that point. The game had already stopped by that time, so it's a natural break in play.

      If you agree that it's a penalty, then VAR was required because it wasn't given on the pitch. That's why it's not going anywhere. Kevin Friend did his job the way he's supposed to do it, and the correct decision was then made.

      That doesn't make it any easier to take, but I can't argue whether it's the right decision or not. If you know what the rule is, you know what the decision should be. I really wonder if the ref gave it originally, whether the reaction would have been what it is.

      It was a penalty and I’m not complaining about the decision.

      The debate is whether VAR should have been introduced. I understand what you’re saying and you are correct, however, VAR is only supposed to come in play when it’s a clear and obvious error. It’s a fine line when it comes to discussing incidents.

      People can argue that yes it was a clear and obvious error because robertson made contact with welbeck and therefore it’s a penalty. However other people can argue that the referee saw the incident and felt that the contact made by robertson was not enough to warrant a penalty so it’s not a clear and obvious error from the referee and that’s why VAR shouldn’t have been used.

      When VAR was first introduced, the FA and premierleague were very insistent that the referee would still control the game and that he would make the majority of decisions. VAR was only supposed to be used, presumably, if the referee had missed something.

      It’s got the point now where every decision the referee makes is looked at by VAR and quite often over ruled by VAR - and that’s why there is debate about the penalty yesterday.

      billythered
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #498: Nov 30, 2020 08:32:37 am
      We had a similiar penalty given our way against West Ham. By the same ref. Now if we argue that the Salah one was a penalty, (which it was imo) then if we're consistent, we can't argue against the one given in this game. We've seen those penalties in the "seen them given" category before, and no doubt we'll see them again.

      With my red hat on, I hate the 3 decisions go against us here. Without the hat on, then I can't dispute them. Whether you're classified as a "matchgoer" fan or not, then as with everything else in life, we must have justice done on a football pitch.






      Neither were penalties for me, if you have to slow down footage to determine whether or not contact was made it is not a penalty, we play football in real motion not slow motion so unless it is ‘Clear & Obvious’ neither are penalties,

      Similarly with offside, if Var has to draw lines on a screen to see if the tip of someone’s toe is ‘Offside’ it is not Offside, again it has to be clear & obvious, in this situation the attacking player should have the benefit of the doubt, after all isn’t that the whole point of the game, for goals to be scored to determine a winner and loser that creates all the excitement and elation ?

      CLEAR & OBVIOUS,  that was the mantra thrown out by those running VAR, what we’re getting is clear & obvious manipulation of the rules to suit their own agendas and robbing us of the excitement, & the emotion of why we watch football .

      Either put it right or F**k it off ! !



                                                                                   Y  N  W  A
      heimdall
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #499: Nov 30, 2020 09:44:17 am
      It was a penalty and I’m not complaining about the decision.

      The debate is whether VAR should have been introduced. I understand what you’re saying and you are correct, however, VAR is only supposed to come in play when it’s a clear and obvious error. It’s a fine line when it comes to discussing incidents.

      People can argue that yes it was a clear and obvious error because robertson made contact with welbeck and therefore it’s a penalty. However other people can argue that the referee saw the incident and felt that the contact made by robertson was not enough to warrant a penalty so it’s not a clear and obvious error from the referee and that’s why VAR shouldn’t have been used.

      When VAR was first introduced, the FA and premierleague were very insistent that the referee would still control the game and that he would make the majority of decisions. VAR was only supposed to be used, presumably, if the referee had missed something.

      It’s got the point now where every decision the referee makes is looked at by VAR and quite often over ruled by VAR - and that’s why there is debate about the penalty yesterday.



      There is a very very simple solution to this and that is to follow the example of cricket. The referee can request a VAR review at any time plus each team gets 2 requests per game. On top of that an incident can be flagged by the VAR team, but that would only be for off the ball incidents.
      brezipool
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      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #500: Nov 30, 2020 10:01:32 am
      So what should Robbo have done then, wait for the ball to reach Wellbeck and then wave him through, as any contact these days is a penalty? Robbo was clearly trying to clear the ball which he would have done if Wellbeck didn't stick his foot in front of Robbo's.
      It's got to the point now that an attacking player should just stick his foot in front of a defender trying to clear the ball and win a penalty and that is daft.
      The rules need to urgently be reviewed with respect to var and all replays should be done at full speed, slow Mo always distorts and exaggerates the event. Also there has to be an advantage to the attacking team in offsides, it needs to be a clear to the naked eye offside and an obvious error from the Linesman

      Exactly.

      the full speed thing with var is really a no brainer, especially with tackles and such. At full speed that wasnt a penalty, both went for ball, both missed the ball, none had control of the ball, robbo caught the lad on his wee toe or something, he went down like a hed been shot and rolled about, ffs. but ref never made a clear and obvious mistake, so what are we going to look at every incident in the box now?

      I would also add, has the free kick been totally ditched now in the box, if anything in the old days, that could have been a free kick, as wellbeck wasnt facing goal, it was a packed box, was very unlikely to lead to a goal without some brilliant skill or lots of passes.

      Just getting so frustrating.
      heimdall
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #501: Nov 30, 2020 10:05:09 am
      Exactly.

      the full speed thing with var is really a no brainer, especially with tackles and such. At full speed that wasnt a penalty, both went for ball, both missed the ball, none had control of the ball, robbo caught the lad on his wee toe or something, he went down like a hed been shot and rolled about, ffs. but ref never made a clear and obvious mistake, so what are we going to look at every incident in the box now?

      I would also add, has the free kick been totally ditched now in the box, if anything in the old days, that could have been a free kick, as wellbeck wasnt facing goal, it was a packed box, was very unlikely to lead to a goal without some brilliant skill or lots of passes.

      Just getting so frustrating.

      That's an interesting point about the freekick inside the box, maybe that could be a good halfway house solution until the rules are properly reviewed, ie if a decision is soft like the one against Robbo, or the one Salah got awarded against the Hammers, then award a freekick instead of a penalty.
      clint_call01
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #502: Nov 30, 2020 11:09:45 am
      That's an interesting point about the freekick inside the box, maybe that could be a good halfway house solution until the rules are properly reviewed, ie if a decision is soft like the one against Robbo, or the one Salah got awarded against the Hammers, then award a freekick instead of a penalty.

      I like this idea.

      Phillips is playing well. No non-sense defender. Williams needs to improve.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #503: Nov 30, 2020 11:25:40 am
      That's an interesting point about the freekick inside the box, maybe that could be a good halfway house solution until the rules are properly reviewed, ie if a decision is soft like the one against Robbo, or the one Salah got awarded against the Hammers, then award a freekick instead of a penalty.

      Would you still use goal line technology separate from any VAR challenges?
      brezipool
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      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #504: Nov 30, 2020 11:27:57 am
      That's an interesting point about the freekick inside the box, maybe that could be a good halfway house solution until the rules are properly reviewed, ie if a decision is soft like the one against Robbo, or the one Salah got awarded against the Hammers, then award a freekick instead of a penalty.

      ive seen loads of things in all sorts of games, ive thought, aye its a wee foul, but not nasty, and they were never scoring a goal, so to me thats an indirect free kick.

      just seems to have completely vanished from the game. maybe the wee refs brains cant cope i dont know. ;D
      ToshackKeeganOneNil
      • Forum Phil Thompson
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      Re: Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #505: Nov 30, 2020 04:32:19 pm
      Well quelle surprise that utter welt Dermot Gallagher is saying it was definitely a penalty. That only confirms to genuine fans that it wasn't.

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